Topic: Experiencing lags and slowness (Read 2357 times)

Zootsuit · « **on:** June 26, 2019, 08:19:38 am »

I followed all of Awesome Donkey's very helpful directions and am still experiencing lags and slowness, particularly after deleting files from my library. The program seems to hang, momentarily extends the window to the bottom of the screen, covering the task manager. The process can take a good 10 to 15 seconds before reverting to it's normal view. I also experience slowness in editing properties. The search function is also quite slow and not infrequently returns inaccurate data. (I have an extremely large library and am often curating by adding data to tags, or deleting duplicate or corrupt files.)

I am using Windows Defender on Windows 10, and also run Malwarebytes in the background. I have added all of the exceptions that AD suggests. I am not rebuilding thumbnails, and have turned off the automatic tag updater. It appears this may not be Defender but something else. Have others experienced this kind of slowness? I'd welcome all suggestions.

For reference, I am a long time user, extending back well before Media Center 10, and experienced in the use of the program, but am nowhere as well versed in broader computer knowledge as many of the other users.)

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2019, 08:30:25 am »

Uninstall Malwarebytes.

Zootsuit · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2019, 05:09:55 pm »

I uninstalled and rebooted. Still extremely slow, stutters and hangs at even simple commands.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2019, 05:23:36 pm »

What version of MC are you using?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2019, 06:47:29 pm »

25.0.54

RoderickGI · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2019, 07:26:01 pm »

Quote from: Zootsuit on June 26, 2019, 05:09:55 pm

I uninstalled and rebooted. Still extremely slow, stutters and hangs at even simple commands.

What hardware?
Is the Library (not the media, the Library database files) local on an SSD?
Is the disk/SSD in good condition? Test it with something like Hard Disk Sentinel.
Where is the media stored? Local? NAS? Network all good?
Running Windows 10 with latest updates? Did this start with a recent Windows Update?
Any other software running when the issue happens? Adobe? Steam?

How many records in the Library?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2019, 08:48:05 pm »

-SSD? No - 2 externals plus Synology NAS
-Drives appear to be in good order, but I’ll double check
-Network seems fine. I stream video seamlessly, ditto audio through the server
-This slowness has been a problem going back through several releases, maybe since 18-19. I haven’t come back for help thinking I’d somehow missed something in Awesome Donkey’s memo.
-all Windows updates installed
-software: Media Center (obviously); Evernotes; Chrome; JDownloader; BackBlaze (recent addition).
-I run into this problem even when Defender suite is off. I will say that in Safe Mode, the program works better, although sound is obviously unavailable
-homungous number of files, maybe 1,5 MM. my entire library has been digitized.

RoderickGI · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2019, 10:15:23 pm »

1.5 million files?

Your Library (not the media files themselves) is stored on an external hard drive? Is that a USB hard drive?

If so, there is your problem. Your Library should be on an internal fast SSD. You will see a great improvement.

Zootsuit · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2019, 05:34:06 am »

Roderick - I may have misled you somehow. The Main Library is stored at C:\Users\<myusername>\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 25\Library, where the C Drive is obviously a fast internal. I don't have an SSD installed. When I do a Library backup, the backup is stored in duplicate on one of the USB externals and the NAS, but I'm using the C Drive Library.

I don't know if there's something going on automatically with my C Drive that slows the process down.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2019, 06:09:49 am »

You might try disabling automatic sample submission in Windows Defender to see if slowness goes away.

Zootsuit · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2019, 08:55:17 am »

AD, it's been turned off

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2019, 09:17:12 am »

This is an odd problem. I can think of two avenues to explore.

1. General machine problems.

2. Corrupt library.

For #2, you could backup your library now, then restore an old backup to see if the problem changes.

For #1, open Task Manager, and look at Performance. Does anything look like unusual?

There are all kinds of utilities for checking the machine, some from Windows.

Bad RAM or Disk could cause this kind of problem.

Insufficient memory could cause the machine to swap to disk.

You could run MC's benchmark (under Help) and paste the results here.

Also copy the system info and paste it here. Services and Plug-ins > Reporter > Advanced System Info.

Zootsuit · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2019, 09:56:20 am »

Performance screen shot attached - nothing unusual. Memory shouldn't be an issue - 32 GB memory. No background processes running. System specs below, truncated to meet space limitations:

Library
Total files: 2,330,989
Audio files: 845,950
Image files: 1,061,118
Video files: 2,157
Other files: 421,764
Processing
Thumbnails built: 0% (38 of 2330989)
Audio analyzed: 1% (9873 of 848107)
Background Tools Running
No tools currently running
Power
No entries that affect the system power state
Media Center
Version: 25.0.54 registered
Install path: C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 25\
Interface plug-ins: Interface Plugins: TiVo Server (not running)
JRMark: 3443 (version 23.0.84)
Memory used: 676 MB memory
Handles used: 590 handles
Advanced System Info
Memory & CPU
CPU features: MMX, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, AVX
Free Physical Memory: 24.8 GB
Total Logical Cores: 12
Total Memory: 31.8 GB
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit
Audio inputs and outputs
ASUS VS247-4 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Aux (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Line In (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Microphone (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Realtek Digital Output(Optical) (Realtek High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
S/PDIF Pass-through Device (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Speakers (3- Schiit Modi Uber) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Speakers (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Stereo Mix (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Wave (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)

Zootsuit · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2019, 09:58:43 am »

Here are benchmark results:

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
Single-threaded integer math... 3.911 seconds
Single-threaded floating point math... 2.063 seconds
Multi-threaded integer math... 0.829 seconds
Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.498 seconds
Score: 2602

Running 'Image' benchmark...
Image creation / destruction... 2.157 seconds
Flood filling... 0.336 seconds
Direct copying... 0.347 seconds
Small renders... 0.929 seconds
Bilinear rendering... 0.488 seconds
Bicubic rendering... 0.301 seconds
Score: 4826

Running 'Database' benchmark...
Create database... 0.143 seconds
Populate database... 1.153 seconds
Save database... 0.722 seconds
Reload database... 0.175 seconds
Search database... 1.353 seconds
Sort database... 0.673 seconds
Group database... 0.501 seconds
Score: 4557

JRMark (version 25.0.54 64 bit): 3995

JimH · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2019, 10:00:27 am »

In your screenshot, the disk is 100%. How big is it and how much space is open?

You've got a _lot_ of files! You must be retired. ;0

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2019, 10:01:33 am »

Your benchmark is good. No problems. Good machine.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2019, 10:02:52 am »

Look at the processing section, it looks like it might be processing files;

Processing
Thumbnails built: 0% (38 of 2330989)
Audio analyzed: 1% (9873 of 848107)

If indeed analysis is running and thumbnails are being built, that indeed can cause slowdown issues like this. That's assuming of course analysis/thumbnail building isn't enabled.

P.S. That... is a LOT of audio files. Man, I can only imagine how big the library would be with over 800,000 audio files (and over 2 million total). I only have 1/8th of the amount of audio files right now.

DJLegba · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2019, 11:50:58 am »

Chrome launches an irritating thing called Software Reporter that scans your files. It always makes my computer's fan kick into overdrive, which reminds me to kill the process. Is Software Reporter running?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2019, 12:08:53 pm »

Retired? Well, sort of.....

Library - 50+ years of collecting music in a variety of media from 8-track (try rescuing that) to ripped LPs and CDs. Combine with a spousal ultimatum ("Clean up that room or I'll call a trash collector in here!") and ease of access.

I stopped updating of thumbnails and audio analysis. Are you seeing something different? If so, what do I need to do to terminate it?

Again, auto import is not on, ditto auto-updating of tags.

The main library is on the C Drive. CCs are on the external and the NAS.

Zootsuit · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2019, 12:51:36 pm »

DJLegba - good question. I wondered if Chrome, my browser of choice, was doing something. I've disabled it for all users, will let you know.

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2019, 01:24:21 pm »

How big is the drive and how much space is left?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2019, 01:59:06 pm »

1 TB total - 796 GB free

Zootsuit · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2019, 02:00:45 pm »

Turning Software Reporter off didn't seem to do anything.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2019, 02:03:20 pm »

How about F:? In your screenshot above it was 100%. What's going on with it? Temp drive? Bad drive?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2019, 02:28:57 pm »

Thanks for jogging my memory. F is a drive that's crashed and not in use, I neglected disconnecting it before, but just did. Let's see if it makes a difference.

Note: Disconnected it but MC still is slow on sorting files, editing, etc.

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2019, 03:02:55 pm »

Under MC's options for Location, are there any references to drives other than C:?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #26 on:** June 27, 2019, 05:07:51 pm »

Quote from: JimH on June 27, 2019, 03:02:55 pm

Under MC's options for Location, are there any references to drives other than C:?

Yes - ripped files are directed to a subaccount either in an external or in the NAS. I open the folder for a new rip into one in a series of parent folders separated by date. (Ex.: H>6-27-19>Bill Evans>Intuition.)I knew with the NAS I would give up something in the speed of access on play, but these delays and this stuttering is much more pronounced than that.

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2019, 06:04:18 pm »

Try setting them to C:, just to see what happens. If the external storage went to sleep from time to time, it might do something odd.

Did you try the backup and restore I mentioned above?

RoderickGI · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2019, 06:27:17 pm »

I see you have 32GB of memory, so plenty to play with.

As an experiment, not a permanent solution, try setting up a RAM Disk, creating a new Library on it, and then backing up your current Library and restoring it to the Library on the RAM Disk.

That should make the Library access and tag updates very fast. If it doesn't, then the issue is something external to the MC Library, but could still be something MC is doing, such as Registry and file updates. You say you have tagging turned off. Does that include Number of Plays, Last Played, and other tags associated with using the media?

Anyway, try the experiment. It will be interesting to see if anything changes. I don't use a RAM Disk or any software that supports them, but I generally trust Sourceforge apps. Try this free one: https://www.maketecheasier.com/setup-ram-disk-windows/

Zootsuit · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2019, 07:47:14 am »

Roderick, I turned off all of the tagging functions. The issue is still there. (I haven’t tried a RAM disk yet, needed to educate myself on that.)

What I didn’t mention, I use the Notes field for data concerning the album, such as AMG or Dusty Groove. That’s a lot of data-would that somehow impact performance? It does behave like something is constantly updating.

I download music using JDownloader from pay to play sites, so JD is usually running, also Evernotes, where I store discographical information. Otherwise, nothing unusual.

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** June 28, 2019, 08:40:27 am »

Could you share a backup of your library so we could test it?

Zootsuit · « **Reply #31 on:** June 28, 2019, 11:43:14 am »

Its uploaded in Zippyshare - how do you want me to send it? If the attachment is public, I'd prefer to send you a link.

JimH · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2019, 01:40:01 pm »

You could mail a link to matt at jriver and refer to this thread. Thanks.

Matt · « **Reply #33 on:** July 02, 2019, 10:22:56 am »

Just a note that Zootsuit sent his library and it's been putting me through my paces!

It's over 800,000 files so might be the record.

I've got the next build a bunch faster to start editing a field.

It was also really slow to enumerate his playlists (he has thousands) when doing a search in Options. That will also be faster.

Thanks for the help.

Vocalpoint · « **Reply #34 on:** July 02, 2019, 11:45:14 am »

Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2019, 10:22:56 am

It was also really slow to enumerate his playlists (he has thousands) when doing a search in Options. That will also be faster.

Matt

Excellent work. Is the overall size of the library a possible deterrent for normal Search (upper right hand corner) activities as well?

I just completed our v25 refresh to all machines here and I am still seeing some very pokey searching in the latest version. I am at a loss to determine why searching sometime feels like my machine is covered in molasses. I type some characters into the search box and MC seems to almost grind to a halt trying to piece together it's "google" like partial matches.

At first I thought MC was maybe trying to go out to my server on the network and do and actually search of files - but then I realized - no - it must be simply parsing it's internal library. So if this is correct, and the library is presumably compiled, indexed and sitting on my ultra fast SSD - why does the app continue to struggle to roll through it's searches?

I am almost ready to ditch this library and rebuild from scratch to see if there is something corrupted or some other reason for the slowness. I have been rocking this library over at least the last five upgrades but cannot determine why Search remains so slow.

I liken the "internal" compiled library search to that of Microsoft OneNote - where any search (regardless of the amount of characters or the amount of notebooks) seems to take a mere millisecond to occur.

Would like to know what else I can try to troubleshoot this.

Cheers!

VP

Matt · « **Reply #35 on:** July 02, 2019, 11:58:54 am »

Hi Vocalpoint.

You could send me a library backup (matt at jriver) and I could sure try the searches in the debugger.

We've already spent a lot of time optimizing, so no idea if we could find anything else.

But it sure wouldn't hurt to try.

Thanks.

Vocalpoint · « **Reply #36 on:** July 02, 2019, 11:59:56 am »

Quote from: Matt on July 02, 2019, 11:58:54 am

Hi Vocalpoint.

You could send me a library backup (matt at jriver) and I could sure try the searches in the debugger.

We've already spent a lot of time optimizing, so no idea if we could find anything else.

But it sure wouldn't hurt to try.

Thanks.

Will do. Thanks!

VP

phusis · « **Reply #37 on:** July 10, 2019, 04:32:10 am »

I'm experiencing the same problem with MC25 these latest, perhaps 2-3 weeks now - that is, that it lags severely, and is very slow. I'm using Windows 10 64-bit and made an OS-upgrade yesterday, but it's been a couple a months ago since my PC upgraded the OS before that, so I would guess it's somehow inherent to MC25 and one of its latest updates.

Awesome Donkey · « **Reply #38 on:** July 10, 2019, 05:13:10 am »

Are you using the latest MC25 build?

imeric · « **Reply #39 on:** July 21, 2019, 03:19:49 pm »

Quote from: Zootsuit on June 27, 2019, 09:56:20 am

Performance screen shot attached - nothing unusual. Memory shouldn't be an issue - 32 GB memory. No background processes running. System specs below, truncated to meet space limitations:

Library
Total files: 2,330,989
Audio files: 845,950
Image files: 1,061,118
Video files: 2,157
Other files: 421,764
Processing
Thumbnails built: 0% (38 of 2330989)
Audio analyzed: 1% (9873 of 848107)
Background Tools Running
No tools currently running
Power
No entries that affect the system power state
Media Center
Version: 25.0.54 registered
Install path: C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 25\
Interface plug-ins: Interface Plugins: TiVo Server (not running)
JRMark: 3443 (version 23.0.84)
Memory used: 676 MB memory
Handles used: 590 handles
Advanced System Info
Memory & CPU
CPU features: MMX, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, AVX
Free Physical Memory: 24.8 GB
Total Logical Cores: 12
Total Memory: 31.8 GB
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit
Audio inputs and outputs
ASUS VS247-4 (NVIDIA High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Aux (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Line In (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Microphone (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Realtek Digital Output(Optical) (Realtek High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
S/PDIF Pass-through Device (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Speakers (3- Schiit Modi Uber) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Speakers (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Stereo Mix (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)
Wave (ASUS Xonar DGX Audio Device) (driver 10.0.17134.1)

I bet this is what caused the issue:

25.0.69 (6/26/2019)

1. Changed: When the program loads, it will go through files and mark lossy files as not HDCD and files that aren't 44100x16x2 as not HDCD.

Hendrik · « **Reply #40 on:** July 21, 2019, 03:57:41 pm »

How could it possible be that if the initial reports are from long before that change?

imeric · « **Reply #41 on:** July 21, 2019, 04:24:43 pm »

Yep my bad I missed the 25.0.54 part...

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Author Topic: Experiencing lags and slowness (Read 2357 times)