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[d_pert]

Just out of interest, what's VST interface specification in JRiver MC? Ver. 2.4 (2006, Steinberg)?

Background:

A long-time "issue" with one of my plugin(s) -- only in JRiver MC -- IK Multimedia's ARC (Acoustic Room Correction) ver. 2.5:

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/arc2/

JRiver MC will not allow room measurement presets to be selected and/or retained in the ARC plugin; the plugin's drop-down menu either fails to populate, OR -- if you do select a measurement -- the selection does not persist. This has been the case on four different PCs running every version of MS-Windows since Vista, and only in JRiver MC (no other VST host).

As a workaround, I've been using Plogue Bidule as a "wrapper" VST host within MC.

https://www.plogue.com/products/bidule.html

Although Bidule is rock-solid, this is a clumsy/complicating workaround.

Sometimes it introduces audible ticks/clicks at the beginning of new tracks too.

Am reaching here, but I thought I'd fish for a fix to this long-time pet peeve (10+ years?).

Perhaps if JRiver's VST hosting module is just older, it could be updated?

Thank you so much.

P.S. -- I'm on VST-related roll yesterday and today.

[Hendrik]

We use the latest version of the VST2 specification, and even if not, there really haven't been any significant changes in between those versions.

[d_pert]

Cool, Thanks. Indeed: The IK ARC 2.5 requirements only state "VST2".

But -- and hope springs eternal here -- any idea why the legacy "issue" as described has persisted all these years, and apparently only in MC?

Thanks again.

[d_pert]

Possibly of note too, the following have historically made no difference either:

--Running MC elevated with Administrator privileges
--Running a normal install (vs. portable), with/without with Administrator privileges
--Installing the VST in Windows while elevated with Administrator privileges
--Licensing the VST in Windows while elevated with Administrator privileges
--Installing the VST in MC elevated with Administrator privileges

[palko]

Hi Hendrik,

encountering the same issue with ARC2.5 as Derek, I am surprised, that JRiver does not try to assist in a solution oriented way - like for instance to try Yourself to get arc2.5 running with MC24 or MC25.

I have been using MC from version 10 or so, have been very satisfied and often purchased upgrade versions even being aware, that the changes from one version to the next were not so significant (for me) to justify the expense. Anyway, I felt JRiver has earned the support for providing such a good, versatile product.

Now I had the chance to try the effect of ARC2.5 using Cubase 10 as a testing host, and the effect of ARC2.5 room correction is significant. So a lack of support to get it working on MC might be a dealbreaker ... unfortunately.

So please, please, try to solve this issue.

Kind regards,
Paul

[d_pert]

I confirm that this long-standing problem is still present in the latest build of MC.

One observation I made, subsequent to my previous posts, which may be a clue to fixing the issue:

ARC seems unique among VSTs I've seen, in that the selection of any preferred "measurement" preset in any host/instance of ARC "sticks" globally (trans-host, trans project). In other words, the stored measurement selection is not memorized in any host's project file (or in MC's memory of the loaded VST's 'settings').

If you change the measurement selection in any instance, in any host, close that host, open any project in any other host, OR add the ARC anew in any other host ... the measurement selection will be whatever you "last selected", wherever did it.

It's like the host has to be able to fetch the setting from outside itself (e.g., the registry, some external MRU Most-Recently-Used data perhaps?) rather than within its own memory of the VST's settings.

This capability must be part of the VST host standard, as it works great in, say, Steinberg's own host(s) (e.g. Cubase), and every other bona fide host I've tried (e.g., Plogue Bidule, ProTools, etc...). MC is the only VST host which seems to have a problem related to this.

(Hoping this helps.)

[palko]

Triggered by Your last post I made a new attempt to make ACR-plugin work in MC ... successfully ...

After installing ACR´s VST-plugin it seemed, that - as described by d-pert, chosing a particular measurement from ACR´s pulldown menu did not have any effect - thats where I had given up before.

Now I did the same during activated music replay - bang! ACR started calculating the curves and correction worked. Toggling the correcion button showed the difference ...
I saved before leaving the program - and ACR was active after restarting MC ...

[d_pert]

Palko - do you have multiple measurement files, and if so, can you also switch between them *without* needing to be in actual play mode? In other words, after you've done what you described *once*, is it clear sailing from there? I currently have only one measurement file per PC/setup.

This is an alternative workaround with less nuisances (no need for a 3rd pty. wrapper VST host like Bidule).

However, the question remains, what's different/limited about MC's implementation of VST that causes this quirk with ARC, apart from all other hosts that I've worked with?

I still think part of it has to do with ARC's own "unusual" feature of making the measurement selection itself not memorized discretely inside any project file or any one host; think trans-project, trans-host, global system setting. I believe it's the only VST I've seen where that happens. And not a problem in any other host.

[JimH]

Thanks for posting the solution.

[d_pert]

Hi JimH -- Not to be pedantic: but I believe palko's finding constitutes a workaround, not a solution. Is there any chance of JRiver getting to the root of issue, which only seems to happen on MC (among VST hosts)? Thanks.

[d_pert]

Doing more tests following palko's workaround has shown that another, related bug is not solved:

If you relaunch MC, the ARC VST effect does not actually "kick in" unless you actually go back into the DSP Studio and display the ARC VST's GUI.

Palko -- Can you confirm this?

--Launch MC
--Start a familiar track playing (listen to the sound)
--Go into DSP Studio, then display ARC VST GUI, *now hear* the effect kick in

So ... even though the measurement setting now "sticks" (if it's made only during playback), closing and reopening MC "knocks out" the effect until one actually displays the DSP's own GUI, once.

And again: None of these oddities occur in any other VST host I work with:

--Steinberg Cubase
--Steinberg Dorico
--AVID Sibelius
--Adobe Premiere Pro
--BlackMagic Davinci Resolve
--Plogue Bidule

P.S. -- I confirm that the measurement selection stays visible in the selector box, after applying the workaround. However, as noted above, that makes no difference because the effect itself remains somehow disengaged until one actually displays the GUI following re-launch.

[d_pert]

Should the suffix "[Solved]" be removed, given that the problem is not solved?

Palko, have you had time to test again?

Thank you.

[d_pert]

Update a.o. ver. 26.0.14 of Media Center:

This is not solved. Per above: If you relaunch MC, the ARC VST effect does not actually "kick in" unless you go back into the DSP Studio and display the ARC VST's GUI.

No such behavior in any other VST host. Palko's point is a partial workaround, not a solution.

[d_pert]

To anyone who's interested:

As this has remained unsolved for many years -- I was intrigued to discover today that IK Multimedia has released a major version upgrade to ARC (now at ver. 3). This is IK's first major version advancement for ARC in many years! I'll test it today or tomorrow with MC 26 to see if the unsolved issue(s) have magically gone away (fingers crossed).

[d_pert]

Hooray! All the behavioral wierdnesses of ARC 2/2.5 in JRiver MC have gone away in the new ARC ver. 3.0 !!!

--JRiver MC 26 and this VST behave normally in terms of all the GUI/interface and internal preset selection aspects one would expect.

It'll take me a while to get used to the idea.