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[David Sydney]

Thanks for your efforts I have been using JRiver for 3 years now.. time flies.

One of the only reasons I keep itunes on my installation is so I can drag drop music file onto it and it automatically creates folders for artist and album and copies files into the folders while adding it to the library index. My itunes library and JRiver HD library are under the same folder tree, so as soon as JRiver starts it sees these additions and add them to it's library file.

iTunes does not do a great job of it because I would to build album folders as year - album not just album, and it won't recognise lossless or transfer cover art files, but it is more elegant than trying to use "rename, move, copy" in JRiver.

If you are trying to win over iTunes users - I think this would be required?

[wer]

This "feature" to which you refer always annoyed me when I used iTunes.  A lot of people think your media software should not go about reorganizing your filesystem without being told.  So I wouldn't think it's required, but everyone likes different things.

Apple is doing a fair bit of the work of getting users to switch by slowly deprecating and disabling iTunes, don't you think?  It can't manage apps anymore and the Mac version is being killed off entirely.

In fact, because MC can be made to do almost anything, it can actually be made to do what you want here, pretty much.  Instead of dragging and dropping into the interface, you have to drop into a watched folder that MC monitors through auto-import.  That should satisfy you.

To set this up:
Configure auto-import and add the pre-existing folder you want it to monitor.  MC will remove files from this folder as it imports them.  Make sure mode is to include this folder, not exclude.

In the "apply these tags" section, click Commands->Add->Custom

For field, select "Filename (path)"

In the value box, enter something like this.  You get the idea...
D:\FLAC\[Artist]\[Year] - [Album]
And click OK.

The above will move the file based on the rule you create.  You'd better hope your tags are good.  If you also want to rename the file itself, simply create an additional action for the "Filename (name)" tag, and build from tags the name you want as above.

When done, click OK on the folder settings dialog.

Now whenever autoimport runs, MC will snatch the files from your watched folder, organize them, and put them in the library.  Like iTunes, except the way YOU want it.

One gotcha: If MC sees that the folder is empty when it has imported all the importable files, it will remove the watched folder.  So to prevent this from happening, leave one non-importable file in the folder, like a .txt file or something.

Let me know if that helps you.

[RoderickGI]

You'd better hope your tags are good. 

That's for sure! This is why full automation isn't always a good idea. iTunes sort of assumed that you bought music from Apple, so it would always have the basic tags. If you use other sources, that isn't always going to be the case.

If you also want to rename the file itself, simply create an additional action for the "Filename (name)" tag, and build from tags the name you want as above.

Or you could just use the [filename] tag, which includes the full path and the file name itself, and do it all in one step.

One gotcha: If MC sees that the folder is empty when it has imported all the importable files, it will remove the watched folder.

I don't think I knew that. It would {EDIT} NOT seem to be a good idea to have MC do that. I'm going to have to test that at some stage.


PS: WER, that was very helpful. 

[wer]

Maybe someone should do a wiki about this Roderick.  It doesn't seem to be documented on the wiki now, and I doubt anyone will find it in a post titled "Attracting iTunes Users".  It's not rocket science but you could hardly call it obvious either.  -Will

[RoderickGI]

Yeah, but Wiki articles take quite a bit of time, often require some research and setting up situations, and they don't generate any income.

I think Spike1000 was on to the right idea with his YouTube tutorials, but he only got 68 subscribers, and the most popular video saw under 5,000 views. Not enough to make the advertising pay for the work.

[wer]

Fair enough.  But after 35 years working in technology I'll just say this.

No one likes to document.  People think documentation doesn't generate revenue.

But well documented programs are easier to use well.  Programs that are easier to use sell more, and result in lower support costs.  That results in increased profits.

It has also been my experience that providing good documentation, whether in the form of bundled help files or online "wiki" pages, results in increased customer satisfaction, and increased customer respect for the vendor.  Both of which drive sales.  Telling customers "search google and sift through years of forum posts" does the opposite.

Anyway, let's see if this even solves the OP's problem.  Just the other day I saw someone offer a clever solution and the OP said something like "That's too hard.  I wanted something easy." 

[David Sydney]

To set this up:
Configure auto-import and add the pre-existing folder you want it to monitor.  MC will remove files from this folder as it imports them.  Make sure mode is to include this folder, not exclude.

In the "apply these tags" section, click Commands->Add->Custom

For field, select "Filename (path)"

In the value box, enter something like this.  You get the idea...
D:\FLAC\[Artist]\[Year] - [Album]
And click OK.

Thanks for the details, I am used to reviewing tags before import. Also used to cleaning up file and folder names MC creates when converting audio type one vinyl rip FLAC file into several - trying to cut down the amount of file\folder edits.

I worked out you are talking about Tools, Options, Library, Configure Auto Import. I must have a missing step as I have added as you oulined above, but after adding a new 'import' folder and adding some audio files to it; MC leaves the files in there it does not move them to the main folder tree? I will have to go back and look at other settings?

[wer]

Check and make sure you have the "Run auto import in background" option checked.

You might have done something incorrectly, but auto-import might not have run yet.  Various things can trigger it, like browsing the tree in MC.

You can force it to run with Tools->Import->Run auto import now.

If that doesn't move your files, you might have mistyped something, or if they're things previously imported, turn off the "Ignore files previously removed from library" option in the auto import configuration.

[David Sydney]

I often hit 'Run Auto Import Now' and it has run in this case. I am playing the album and pop up on the track shows the folder being the new one I set up. Also turn off "Ignore files previously removed" in the bottom section of the Configure Auto import dialog.

Something else is at play on settings somewhere?

[wer]

It sounds like it's already in the library, but didn't get moved.  So you have a mistake somewhere.  Delete the tracks from the library and run auto import again.

If it doesn't move, check your work and if you don't find the error post screenshots of all the relevant dialog boxes.

[David Sydney]

Sorry the explanation remains elusive. There is no mistake, the album was not in the library previously until I put files in the new import folder today. I deleted the files from the library& sent files to recycle bin. Auto import again. Added files back into the new import folder, ran auto import, the tracks have been added back into the library again - and remain where they sit in the new folder I created today.

My setup does not move files on import, yours does, but I don't know where that setting exists.

[blgentry]

The solution wer outlined is clever and should work.

But, in my opinion, this is a case of trying to do something really clever in order to avoid learning something that's not that hard.  Instead, if you'll use the Rename, Move, and Copy files tool, you will become comfortable with it.  It will become a normal part of your workflow and you'll understand it.

Further, RM&C has templates so that you can set up common operations like moving files to your common music area with your rules.  Highlight an album; activate RM&C; your template should already be selected; hit OK, and it does it.  It's not automatic, but this gives you more control.  So you know where everything is at all times.

Just my opinion.  Feel free to disagree.  Good luck either way. 

Brian.

[JimH]

Maybe someone should do a wiki about this Roderick.  It doesn't seem to be documented on the wiki now, and I doubt anyone will find it in a post titled "Attracting iTunes Users".  It's not rocket science but you could hardly call it obvious either.  -Will

Wer,
Would you like edit privileges for the wiki?

[David Sydney]

Although I am willing to try these solutions out; niether of these solutions outlined are anywhere near as intuitive as dragging a folder of tracks on to the audio tree and having the application rename and put them in the right folders like itunes does. Don't get me wrong I hate the clunky unresponsive iTunes as much as anyone - I am just talking about that import aspect. Hence I stand by my original point. I am still curious where the MC setting is that turns on "moving on import" as without it the solution Wer outlined does not work or is it something defined at the outset when creating the library as a one-of?

[JimH]

Although I am willing to try these solutions out; niether of these solutions outlined are anywhere near as intuitive as dragging a folder of tracks on to the audio tree and having the application rename and put them in the right folders like itunes does. Don't get me wrong I hate the clunky unresponsive iTunes as much as anyone - I am just talking about that import aspect. Hence I stand by my original point. I am still curious where the MC setting is that turns on "moving on import" as without it the solution Wer outlined does not work or is it something defined at the outset when creating the library as a one-of?

Please try Rename, Move, & Copy.  It's not hard to learn.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Rename,_Move,_and_Copy_Files

[BryanC]

Stupid idea incoming:

MCC Core Command RMC_PLAYLIST(int nRMCProfile, int nPlaylistID).

RM&C profiles are assigned an index number and will be run on all files in nPlaylistID.

In this manner an "auto-renaming" function could be implemented with MCWS or the command line without exposing potentially dangerous file operations to lay users.

The logic of nPlaylistID is to expose as much or as little of the library as possible to the command. For instance, users could use a smartlist pointing at a staging or downloads directory to limit the scope.

[wer]

Although I am willing to try these solutions out; niether of these solutions outlined are anywhere near as intuitive as dragging a folder of tracks on to the audio tree and having the application rename and put them in the right folders like itunes doe

David, this argument doesn't wash.  First, dropping files on an import folder is every bit as intuitive as dropping them on the tree, in my opinion.

Second, by your own admission, Itunes doesn't do what you want.  You hold it up as a model for importing, but it doesn't do what you want.  The folders it chooses are not the way you want.  Itunes is simple because it is not configurable.  MC will do what you want, but unless you demand software telepathy, there must be configuration to do what you want.  If Itunes were to do exactly what you want, it would, SHOCKER, have to have a configuration dialog.

So like I said before, post screenshots of all relevant dialogs, so we can see everything in them and determine what's wrong.

The solution I gave you does work.

[wer]

MC can exhibit the behavior of not actually moving the files if
Options->Library & Folders->Configure Auto-import->Tasks->
"Write file tags when analyzing audio, getting cover art, and applying folder based tags"

is not checked.

Make sure you have that checked, and try again.  If it doesn't work, screenshots.

[wer]

Stupid idea incoming:

MCC Core Command RMC_PLAYLIST(int nRMCProfile, int nPlaylistID).

Out of the box thinking!  But I think this is more complicated to setup than the method currently available.

It would be nice if the configure auto import dialog made the method I'm describing a little more obvious, like with a dedicated dialog for "Organize files on import..." sort of thing.

But really, I think the only serious flaw in the currently available approach, aside from difficulty, is perhaps there needs to be more robust error checking inside MC.  Like what happens if a tag yields an invalid path because of disallowed characters, or an empty tag surrounded by backslashes.

If MC behaved gracefully in all those situations, there would be no reason to worry about this method.

[wer]

Jim, how about changing the name of this thread to something like "Method for organizing and moving files on import" so that people can actually find it with a search?  This title is useless.

[blgentry]

I am still curious where the MC setting is that turns on "moving on import" as without it the solution Wer outlined does not work or is it something defined at the outset when creating the library as a one-of?

There is not a setting that does that currently as far as I know. 

Every now and then, someone asks for this same thing:  ITunes-like auto rename on import.  Each time, most long time MC users scream "Noooooooo!" because it's such an invasive feature.  The JRiver staff don't seem super interested in doing it, but I do NOT speak for them.  I'm just saying what I've observed over the past 5 generations of MC.

I do understand that it's a convenience feature.  I do understand that the Rename, Move, and Copy files tool is kind of big and intimidating.  I actually completely avoided RM&C for about 6 months when I started with MC because it's so big and ugly.  In this case, it's big and ugly like a tractor.  Controls aren't super obvious.  Not bright and shiny.  Intimidating.  But once you do a little with it, that big ugly beast becomes not so hard and you appreciate all of it's power and it's surprising grace.  I can honestly say that RM&C is one of FAVORITE MC features!  I have done SO MANY moves from computer to computer and from drive to drive within computers, all because RM&C is so powerful and flexible.

Anyway, I would understand if you don't want to use it, but I can almost guarantee that I could show you how to do common operations with it in less than 10 minutes if we were sitting in the same room together.

Good luck.

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

Sorry for the off topic, but...

No one likes to document.  People think documentation doesn't generate revenue.

But well documented programs are easier to use well.  Programs that are easier to use sell more, and result in lower support costs.  That results in increased profits.

It has also been my experience that providing good documentation, whether in the form of bundled help files or online "wiki" pages, results in increased customer satisfaction, and increased customer respect for the vendor.  Both of which drive sales.  Telling customers "search google and sift through years of forum posts" does the opposite.

Oh, I agree. But my altruism has limits. I don't work for JRiver. If I did a lot of work and increased MC sales, I would get nothing except thanks, essentially. Well, I know Jim is grateful for the work people put into the forum, which is an essential part of his business model, but I would want more than that to do lots of Wiki work.

Hence I watched Spike1000's work on YouTube videos with interest, as they can be monetised. But that would require a lot more views and subscriptions to make it worthwhile.


So, back on track. I wonder how David Sydney is getting on with this.

David, as an example of using this method, see this thread: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,121471.0.html
The thread got a bit off track and long as it hit EPG data issues, but it shows the method works, can be tuned to specific file types, and can be universally applied to all imports, but for TV recordings in this case.

[David Sydney]

You are right itunes does not do what I want but it's faster cleaning up after it does it, than creating/moving from scratch. As mentioned my set up does not move track files when importing from an import folder - here are the screen shots. I usually manually create folder with the library tree and move them there myself. The settings in the options dialogs and what appears in the library.

I am up to 40k audio files and I have 10s of thousands more to go. I also have not found a way to control the naming conventions of files used in the FLAC/CUE to individual FLAC files created in tools, Advanced Tools, Convert Format either.

[wer]

Click on the edit button of the Folder Settings dialog and take a screenshot. I want to see the full text of what you're applying to the Filename (path) tag.

Also try this for one of the files:
Manually edit the Filename (path) tag and paste in this:  M:\HuntHome Library\iTunes Media\HD Music
and see if it moves.

If it does not, try again, but paste in this value, and see if it moves: D:\My Music\Music\HD Audio MC Import\Moved


When I say manually edit, I don't mean in configure auto import.  I mean bring up the tag pane, and manually modify the field there.

[David Sydney]

As requested, Folder Settings dialog attached. Then I changed to "Move" folder as suggested - did not change the import process - ie. tag now reads  Still does not move any files?

[blgentry]

I am up to 40k audio files and I have 10s of thousands more to go.

You might be missing something.  Or maybe I am. 

If you have 10,000 plus files that you need to import, there is no need to import them album by album or folder by folder.  You can just import them all at once, starting with the top level folder that contains the music.  Tools > Import > Import Single Folder .

Once you have a bunch of new files in the library, you can easily tell RM&C to move them to where they go.  If you're doing this an album or two at a time, you probably spending hours and hours, when you could do the whole thing less than an hour total.

One of the ideas of RM&C is to make it standardize your naming and folder location.  Any time you use your "standard naming" template, RM&C just moves everything to where you would want it.  Assuming your metadata is correct, this just works without any real effort from you.  It might take a few revisions to get your RM&C move rule perfect, but once it's done, you can use it over and over again.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your process.

Brian.

[wer]

David...

After insisting no mistake had been made....   


In the auto-import tag dialog, the last screenshots posted (that were missing before), it is revealed you checked the box that said "Skip for files that already have a value in this field".

Think about what that means.  ALL files have a path, don't they?  Checking this box means the action will be skipped, which will prevent the tag action from being applied to Filename (path) and thus the files won't be moved.  I did not tell you to check this box.  It's not checked by default, at least in my version of MC.

Uncheck it, and try again.  Unless you have a permissions problem on your NAS (M:) the files should move.


If not, I told you to try to manually edit the path in the tag pane, specifically NOT in the auto-import box, to see if the file moves.  Since you've been using MC 3 years, I thought you knew the tag pane means this: