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[RickC555]

I was messing around here, trying JRiver again, I want to replace Winamp. I tried several years ago, but then haven't really given it another shot until now. I'm using an RME ADI-2 DAC today with JRiver. I set the JRiver output to ASIO and have RME's driver installed. But still prefer Winamp, so I'm trying to figure this out.

I think I've narrowed it down to this Output Plugin in Winamp. I isolated the file, out_ds.dll. I see JRiver does let you load dll files from other programs including Winamp, so I tried, but JRiver comes back with an error message, "failed to install plugin" I'm trying this from the DSP Studio, Manage Plugins. Says JRiver, VST or Winamp Plugins. I also "downgraded" my trial version of JRiver from 64 bit to 32 bit. I had read somewhere that the old plugins wouldn't load in the 64 bit version of JRiver.

The Winamp Output Plugin again is, Nullsoft DirectSound Output v2.70. out_ds.dll.

[JimH]

What is your reason for wanting to use the plugin?  There may be another way to accomplish what you want.

[RickC555]

I wanted to see if I could use the same output dll (if that's even possible lol) from Winamp on JRiver to see if I could get JRiver to match up with Winamp (sound the same). I've been playing around with settings, and I tried to select a different output encoding, and then it didn't want to work at all. So I went back to "none" and JRiver asked if it could find the best settings or something and now it seems to sound better. I'm sorry too, lol posts like these must give you a headache!

Right now, in the DSP menu on JRiver, I have the Output Format box checked and it says Enabled and Processed at 44.1khz 64bit 2ch. I'm hoping I can get JRiver sounding as good as Winamp has so I can make a change to JRiver.

[BigSpider]

Best  joke  I have heard in such along time - make JRiver sound as good as winamp - I my god my sides are splitting!

[wer]

So you're using out_ds.dll, which means you are using DirectSound.  You're running your audio through DirectSound before going to your expensive external DAC.

You realize DirectSound is resampling your audio, right?  That's what DS does.  That's why it sounds different relative to JRiver through ASIO, which is bit perfect and not resampled.

If you want Windows to mangle resample all your audio to get the sound you prefer, you could just set the JRiver output device to DirectSound, then Windows will alter it the same way it does for Winamp.

[RickC555]

Yeah, I know it seems crazy that winamp would sound better, so that's why I'm here asking questions. It's frustrating, because if we were all sitting here I could just show you, but I obviously can't. So I'm looking for ideas!

On JRiver, I'm using the asio USB setting in the Audio Device menu. It's the one that goes with the driver from the RME DAC. On Winamp, I just use whatever it uses, I guess it would be the Nullsoft output. And, to my ears and the ears of several others, winamp sounds better. Which seems improbable to me. I want to get JRiver working so I can switch to it, I much prefer it's UI to Winamp. But sound is sound.

It's frustrating. I just wonder if there's something I've overlooked. Does JRiver compress things somehow? It isn't adding any processing to the sound right? As the last poster pointed out, Winamp is the one that would be doing funky things, adding unwanted processing and unnecessary detours through the windows mixer.

[wer]

I honestly don't think you'd be interested in my honest answers to your questions.  JRiver isn't doing any of the things you're asking about, unless you specifically enable DSP settings.  Maybe you have DSP or equalizer settings turned on in Winamp that makes it sound better to you.  When you say "I just use whatever it uses" it doesn't sound like you've put a lot of effort into understanding all the intricacies of audio reproduction in Winamp (or JRiver) so to an observer like me there's the possibility there's some configuration in play you're not describing or not experienced with.

The thing is, sound isn't sound.  Accurate reproduction is one thing, and it can be measured.  What sound really is, is your perception of it.  That can be tested, but not measured.  Everyone's perception is different, and you like what you like.

Some people like the sound from Bose speakers.  They are notoriously inaccurate, but some people think they sound wonderful.  That's fine.

JRiver reproduces music accurately, your system does not.  You prefer the sound of Winamp through Directsound.

If you were interested in accurate reproduction, you could be told how to configure for that.  But you want something inaccurate that sounds the way you want.  That's fine.  To each his own.  But there's no formula for "make this sound the way I want."

As I told you, go ahead and set JRiver to DirectSound, and it will sound more like Winamp.  Make the volume the same, turn off all the DSP on both and then they will sound exactly the same.  If you do that and still think they sound different, have someone blind test you between the two, and I think you'll find you can't really tell the difference, because there isn't one. The mind is a powerful thing.

If you want to use JRiver, fiddle with the DSP until you like the way it sounds, and enjoy your music.

Good luck to you.

[RickC555]

Hey Wer, just wanted to thank you for your post! it makes sense. I'll keep messing around and see what I can figure out. Thanks again!