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[tangolovers]

When I was struggling with duplicates, I realized something was up with my DB.  If I tried reimporting an album I would end up with some duplicates.  So I first exported all my playlists & backed up.  Then I deleted all entries from my library and reimported everything.  Now my library seems to be much cleaner and working fine (ratings, tempo, genre etc are all good) HOWEVER, many of my playlists are mostly empty because it seems that some links must have been broken.  I tried reimporting the playlists to no avail... still empty or partially so.   

When I open the playlist files .m3u & .m3u8, I can see everything is still there, but after importing they are not relinking with the correct files - even though the file path is 100% correct.  Is there anyway to force them to re-link?

[RoderickGI]

No.

The path in the Playlists must match the path to the actual files, and then those tracks will show up in the Playlist inside MC.

I know you said the paths are 100% correct... but...

That is why I asked for an image showing the full paths to the files. Something must be different between the two paths, which is why you saw duplicates, and is now why Playlists don't import properly.

Try this:
Find a track that should appear on a Playlist you imported, but doesn't.
Use the right-click > Locate > On Disk (external) function to open finder where the track is, and copy the full path.
Edit the Playlist file that has the track in it (or a copy if you wish to keep the original).
Replace the current path for the track with the path you just copied, and save the file.
Reimport the Playlist.

Did the missing track now appear in the Playlist inside MC?

If so, there is possibly an unusual character in the path, that hasn't translated well from Windows to Mac or vice versa. If that is the case, then that is probably the cause of all your issues.

[tangolovers]

Hello RoderickGI,

Thank you so much for your help & patience!   At the moment, the duplicates went away because I did a complete delete of all library entries & re-imported everything, which got rid of duplicates and other issues, but wiped out some (not all) of my playlists.  I think I had a lot of broken links which I will explain below.   So, for now I am focusing only on my MAC until the library is cleaned up.  My MAC being my primary platform - where I do all my work before transferring the library to PC which is used for playing.  I will change that once all this is worked out.

I realized that I had done a big NO NO awhile ago and I “suspect” that is the source of my problems.   

After upgrading to MC 23, I wanted to get rid of all the MC 22 folders.   And, I prefer to have all my backups & library under "/Users/me/My Backups/Media Center/Library Backups/" rather than the JRiver folder.   So, I made the appropriate (so I thought) changes in Options > File Location > Program Files.  Then I deleted the JRiver folder(s), not realizing the importance of the .jmd files or anything else inside.   Now, after exporting my playlist MC created a new folder “Media Center 22 on MAC” under my designated path above.  Yet, I can't find any references to MC 22 under File Location or anywhere else under Options to get rid of all references to MC22.

I feel so stupid for doing this.   I now have 2 backups.  One with a messed up library and good playlists and the other with a clean library and messed up playlists.  I would love to merge these two somehow if possible.

Thank you,
Susie

[JimH]

MC makes automatic backups.  Search in Finder for *.zip

[tangolovers]

Hi Jim,

I definitely know about the backups, but somehow I think I broke my links, so I have one seemingly perfect DB (backups library) except for the playlists being half empty and  another older DB where the playlists are fine, but the DB is not healthy... seems like I may have many broken some links with all my deleting of folders (outside of MC).  I have a hunch things have been bad for awhile since I got in the habit of moving & delaying the JRiver folder & others.   Make sense?

On a side note, can you tell me how to relocate the primary JRiver folder & all the .jmd files using MC?  I have never been able to figure out how to do this in MC so I've always made the double bad mistake of changing the name & moving this folder manually in Finder rather than from MC.   On the MAC it always seems to end up in /Users/me/documents/JRiver/, until I attempt to change it.  Unfortunately, I've done this more than once.  So I need to know how to do this w/in MC and then how to fix the bigger problem of all the broken links I seem to have created.  Basically I need to merge my playlist structure (nested folders) from one Library b/u with the Audio DB portion from a a different Library b/u - it that's at all possible.  This is why I took the extreme steps I explained at the beginning... but it didn't work.  

Thank you,
Susie 

[RoderickGI]

You can't merge the messed up and good Libraries. Well, I can think of a way that I could try, but it is complex and not very reliable. So I'm not going to explain that.

But you don't need to. You have already exported the Playlists from the messed up Library. You kept those exported files, right? So just import them into the good Library. If your paths are all correct, then they will work, noting the issues and discussion above.

If you don't have the exported Playlist files still, load the messed up Library, export the Playlists, load the good Library, and import the Playlists.

Or just rebuild the Playlists manually. You could print the Playlists out, or copy and paste them into Excel (or similar) so that you had a reference to re-create them on the Mac.

Once you have the Mac Library in good condition, with Playlists, then read my post in your other thread, here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123138.msg853048.html#msg853048

Then upgrade to MC26/25 and use the new functionality to set up your Mac Library to work on your Windows 10 PC without having to do anything to the Library.


EDIT:

On a side note, can you tell me how to relocate the primary JRiver folder & all the .jmd files using MC?  I have never been able to figure out how to do this in MC so I've always made the double bad mistake of changing the name & moving this folder manually in Finder rather than from MC.

Don't do that again. Ever.

Also, don't worry about that issue for now. Ask again once you get your Library fixed, as above. It is an easy fix, but you need to concentrate on one thing at a time a bit! Moving jmd files could break lots of stuff, but wouldn't break Playlists in the way you are reporting, I think.

[tangolovers]

Hello RoderickGI,

Thankfully, I did export the good Playlists and I just discovered that when I import them they are in a different location, but the good news is that they really did get imported.  I didn't think they did because I didn't see the original Playlists populate, but that's because they're under Imported Playlists!  Unfortunately, looks like I have to do them one by one.  Is there any way to grab them all at once?  Feeling much better now... and much more optimistic.  Now, I have to figure out how to get MC folders named & where I want them so I don't ever do this again!!   ... I am so grateful for your assistance and bearing with me...  What are you doing working on Thanks Giving?  I'm definitely giving thanks tonight for all your help! 

I will have to ask the organizational questions tomorrow when I return, but I guess that should be in a different post.

Thank you, thank you, thank you...
Susie

[RoderickGI]

If you have already exported individual Playlists into individual files, then just select multiple files when you run Import Playlist.

That will import all the files and create individual Playlists for you.. yes, under the Imported Playlists group! If you click "Details" after importing, MC will show the Playlists under the "Recently Imported" Smartlist, so you can see what it has done.

There is also an option to Export All Playlists under the File menu. It just gives less options than exporting individual Playlists. You could try that in the original Library, and then just import that one file into your good Library. But if you have already exported individual Playlists, probably just as easy to import those.


I'm not working, theoretically, because I'm just a user like you. Also, I'm in Australia, so it isn't Thanksgiving here! 

Now, I have to figure out how to get MC folders named & where I want them so I don't ever do this again!!

Please don't do that before asking for advice first. As I said, it is easy, but you need to know some stuff first. I'm not a Mac user, but either I can share enough, or a Mac user can assist with that.

[tangolovers]

Originally, I did an Export All Playlists, so the structure is preserved in the backup folder.   Which format do you recommend .m3u or .m3u8?  I exported both just I case.  As for exporting individual playlists, I wouldn't know what options to select other than leaving the defaults - a bit intimidating.   


In Mac Finder, When I select multiple playlist files or the parent folder, it only imports the 1st one highlighted.  It will not import more than one at a time, nor will it allow me to select any playlist folders.  When I click Details, it confirms that it has only imported one playlist.   And under Imported Playlists, I only see one added each time.    I would be fantastic if I could simply import the entire playlist structure - playlist folders that consist of playlists, some of them nested.   I also exported just the .m3u8 formats to a USB thumb drive and tried importing multiple from there, but I get the same results... only one at a time.   At least after re-importing a playlist the files all seem to be there!  That's a huge breakthrough for me! 

BTW, how can I change where MC saves these .jmd files and the playlists?  I am using MC23 for some time but MC automatically puts them in "/Users/me/My Backups/Media Center/Library Backups/Media Center 22 on MAC”.   When I was using MC22, I somehow set it up to save files under this folder, but after upgrading to MC23 I wanted to change it and make it more generic.  For the life of me, I can't figure out how to make it change this.   Preferably to:   "/Users/me/My Backups/Media Center/Library Backups/Media Center/”.    I believe this was originally the JRiver folder that I moved & renamed.  I would like to get it right this time.  I've attached a screenshot of the current directory structure I case you wish to see it. 
Thank you very much!
Susie

[RoderickGI]

The first issue is, those jmd files aren't a Library Backup. They are actual Library files. I don't know if they are the active Library you are using, but they could be. Library Backup files are a single zip file, not multiple jmd files.

Q1: What is the latest "Date Modified" on those jmd files? Run MC first, close it, and then see if the "Date Modified" is set to the current date and a recent time, for any of the files.

Q2: Restart MC and navigate to "Playing Now" in the left navigation bar, expand the "Playing from..." group, select the Library name that you are using, and tell me what MC says about the location of the Library in the top of the right pane. What is the full path indicated?

Q3: Navigate to "Options > File Location" and post an image of all settings in there. Make sure that the full paths can be seen in the image, by expanding the dialogue if necessary. You seem to have worked out how to make and post screenshots on a Mac now.

Q4: Navigate to "Options > Startup > Library > Always load default library". Is that setting ticked or not?


With the above information we may be able to untangle what you have on the Mac.


Regarding importing the exported playlist files, it seems a bit strange that in Windows I can import multiple such files, but in OSX you can't. Regardless, MC won't import a folder full of such files, and certainly won't create the structure shown in the folders, but in Playlists inside MC. You will have to create the structure manually inside MC, but you can create Playlist Groups in MC, and then Drag & Drop Playlists into each, as you desire.

Regarding changing where exported Playlist files get saved, MC should be offering you a dialogue to select a location after you select "Export All Playlists" and then select the format to use. In Windows, that defaults to "C:\Users\[UserID]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 25\Library\Playlists\", which is a "Playlists" folder directly under the folder that holds the active Library. That looks pretty similar to what you have on your Mac, just with an OSX twist. So it looks like your active Library is buried under "My Backups" folder! That can be fixed.


Please answer the four questions above and we will see what we can do.

[tangolovers]

Q1:  These files in the M22 folder definitely appear to be the most recent.  See attached a screen shot of the most recent ones (sorted in that order). 

Q2:  Playing now says playing a From MC Library Backup.  Is that normal?  There are selectable options below are as follows (see attached screen shot):

Main Library path for 1st one is  "/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 23/Library\"
Main Library path for 2nd one is "/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/Media Center 23/Library/"
DIRECTV2PC Media Server path is not listed
MC Library Backup path is /Users/susiemelo/Documents/My Backups/Media Center 22 on MAC/Library Backups/
Add Library

Q3:  Always load default library is Unchecked.

I will live with having to move my playlists around, definitely better than what I thought I was up against yesterday! 

Regarding export of playlists, on MAC it does not give me any option when I Export All.  It automatically goes to this Media Center 22 folder.  Can you please let me know which format is better ( .m3u or m3u8) when exporting all?   I have no idea where to find this info.

As for the location of where these things get stored, unless you convince that's bad, I prefer not to have these important files/data hidden under AppData (PC) or hidden Libraries (MAC).   I feel I'm not in control of backing up those important files in the event of a catastrophe or just having to reformat.  In the past, I have had to reformat Windows machines too many times, just one reason for going to MAC!   Somehow, I mysteriously got MC 22 folder of .jmd files under My Backups but I don't recall when or how I did this.  For sure, I will never move anything again w/o using MC to do so.  Of all people, I should know better. 

FYI, MC has been freezing a bit too often.  It just froze up when I did this.  So I Quit and reopened. Each time I come back to Playing and try to click on some of the other options below, MC freezes, requiring an ungraceful quit/restart.

p.s. sorry for never producing the screenshot you requested of the duplicates (which are no more) - it was on my new PC and I was overwhelmed & having brain freeze.

Thanks again for all of your effort to get me straightened out.  I hope I can repay some day.
Susie

[RoderickGI]

You missed my Q3 and answered Q4 as Q3. Please answer Q3, with a screenshot. It is the last piece of the puzzle.

Q5: You only intend to run one Library, correct? That is, on say this Mac, you don't want to have multiple Libraries for MC, just one, right?

You didn't actually post a screenshot for Q1 as you said above, but your answer is enough.

The screenshot you did post plus the answers to Q1, Q2 and Q4, "Always load default library", shows that you are indeed running your Library from "/Users/susiemelo/Documents/My Backups/Media Center 22 on MAC/Library Backups/". We can fix that soon, once you answer Q3 and Q5 above.

Either m3u or m3u8 is fine. Use m3u if you create new export Playlist files. The only difference in the two is how many bits are used to encode characters. No influence here. If you were exporting individual Playlists, and transferring them between unrelated MC Libraries, then the mpl format would be better as it carries metadata about the files as well. But you aren't transferring them between unrelated MC Libraries, just recreating Playlists in an existing Library that already has all the metadata, so no need to use mpl files.

Don't worry about the freezing at the moment. That will be a completely separate issue. Let's keep it simple and concentrate on one thing at a time.

I'm happy to help. The only way you can repay me is to help other people on the forum in the future, if you can. Perhaps speak kindly of JRiver MC to others, because the more people who like and use it, the more likely JRiver will stay in business as a great Media Center application, which benefits me as a user.

[tangolovers]

Q3:  See attached screenshot.  Forgive me for the mixup... 

Q5:  Yes, I only intend to run one Library.  I can't think of any reason why I'd ever run two, but I have no idea what purpose that would serve.

Q1:  Screenshot re-attached (with jmd files)...  I see why you didn't get it - I didn't see the (more attachments) link and kept clicking Choose File over and over again.

I'm a little confused...  If I am constantly (at the moment) doing a backup/restore in "/Users/me/My Backups/Media Center/Library Backups/Media Center/” then how can it be that I'm running my Library from "Media Center 22" folder as you say?  The only thing I see in that folder are the .jmd files and the exported playlists - is this what you are referring to as running my Library?   I think of the Library as the .zip file that I am backing up and restoring, but it sounds like you are referring to it in the sense of these .jmd files.  Am I on the right track?
 
In a separate message,  I will include a screenshot of my backup/restore folder as well as the 2 screenshots for each of the 2 Main Library(s) listed under "Playing from MC Library Backup" so you can see the difference in the path name.  Seems like all these attachments won't transmit in one message. 

Lastly, In Options > Startup > "Always load default library" - should this be checked or unchecked?  The default seems to be unchecked.

[tangolovers]

Here is a screenshot of my backup/restore folder.

[tangolovers]

Here are the 2 screenshots for each of the 2 Main Library(s) listed under "Playing from MC Library Backup" so you can see the difference in the path names - one ends with "\", the other ends with /".   Should there really be two of these listed?  Both say they're not loaded.

[RoderickGI]

The jmd files are the Library. They are the files that contain all the information that your Library contains. That is why when you open MC the Date Modified of those files is changed to the current date and time. Those files have just been opened by MC.

The zip files are Library Backup files. They contain copies of the jmd files, and MC settings.

As you are only intending to run one Library, that Library (jmd files) should be stored in the default location that MC uses, and it will be called the "Main Library". This will simplify your use of MC. Somehow, at some time, you have created a Library "MC Library Backup", and that is what you are using right now. We are going to remove that Library and put it back where it should be.

Now to your "File Location" image. As a result of you moving the Library between Windows and Mac, you have some issues in the paths defined in there, which will have been causing some strange issues.

Some paths end with "\/", and some folder rules have a backslash "\" instead of a forward slash "/" as required by OSX on a Mac. I have attached a modified version of your image with highlights where I can see problems. They will all need to be fixed on the Mac. We will address the transfer to Windows issue later.

So, we are going to fix your Mac first. Do the following. Exactly.
Read all these steps a couple of times before starting any of them, so that you know what we are doing. Every step must be done, and in sequence. You may want to print out these instructions so that you can refer to them easily while performing them.

1. Open MC and look around your Library. Confirm that this is the correct Library that you want to use, and that it has the fixes you have been doing. This is important, because this is the only Library that you are going to keep.

2. Manually run a Library Backup. Your back location is fine, so this will work.

3a. Edit your "File Location" settings so that they only include single forward slashes in the appropriate places.
    Note that MC will pop up a Browse dialogue, and you have to fix these paths by browsing to the correct folder. This may give you a bit of trouble, but persist. The "Folder rules" can be directly edited though. Click OK to save those changes.

3b. While we are looking at "File Location" settings, do you want to make your Cover Art MC version independent? Okay, then reopen the "File Location" settings and change your "Cover Art" folder to "/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/Cover Art". You will have to browse to the "/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River" folder, create a new "Cover Art" folder in there, and then select that folder.
Click OK out of Options, and MC will then move all your Cover Art from the old folder to the new folder for you, and delete the old folder. Wait for it to finish. Then in future upgrades MC will use this version independent Cover Art folder.

4. Manually run a Library Backup again. Name the backup file so that you will recognise it in future, and not delete it accidentally.

5. Now we are going to rename the bad version of the "Main Library", so that we can recognise it properly in the next step.
    Under Playing Now in the left Navigation Bar, select the first "Main Library" listed, and check that it is the one that has a backslash at the end of the path. Click the "Rename" button. The name of the Library will open for editing. Rename it "Bad Main Library".

6. As I don't have a Mac myself, I am using the Windows version to get these steps right. Your images show some differences between the two, but the steps should be correct.
    Under Playing Now in the left Navigation Bar, select "Playing from MC Library Backup".
    Click the "Delete Library" button. Don't panic, all will be fine.
    Click on the "Bad Main Library" name. There should be a confirmation message pop up. Click "yes".

7. Click on the Library called "Main Library" under Playing Now in the left Navigation Bar.
    Click the "Load Library" button.
    Once it is loaded, have a look around this Library. If you realise that this is in fact the correct working Library that you were using in the past, and you want to keep it, stop now and ask for help.
     Run one last manual Library Backup on this Library, in case it was the one you wanted to keep after all. Name the backup file so that you will recognise it in future, and not delete it accidentally.
    Click on the "Restore Library" button, and restore the Library Backup you made in step 4 above.
    Now a copy of your good Library is loaded into the default Main Library location, and it is called "Main Library". Good.

8. Under Playing Now in the left Navigation Bar, select "Playing from Main Library".
    Click the "Delete Library" button. Don't panic, all will be fine.
    Click on the "MC Library Backup" name. There should be a confirmation message pop up. Click "yes".
    Now we have deleted the copy of the Library you have been using, but don't panic, because it is now in the "Main Library".

9. Go to "Options > Startup > Library" and check the box for "Always load default library".
    That will mean that whenever to start MC, the "Main Library" that we just set up will always load. I have not addressed the "DIRECTV2PC" Library as I assume that points to a MC Library Server you have running on your Windows PC. That should still be fine, if it was working before.

10. Close and restart MC. Check that the correct Library is loaded. (It will be.) Also check that all the fixes you have been doing are in place and working. Report back if anything is wrong. Be specific.

11. Manually run a Library Backup again. This time MC will name the zip file correctly as the "Main Library". Something like "MC Library Backup (Main Library - 2019-12-01 12-05).zip".

Once you are happy with the above, we can move on to fixing the transfer between your Mac and PC.

[tangolovers]

Wow... I had no idea how bad it was!

Step 3a question/comments:
I seem to have misplaced my external drive (H:) with all of my Videos!!   So, for now I have modified it to point to My Movies on my MAC.   Under Conversion Cache, Video only had a "J River Conversion Cache\" folder, so I did Rename & removed the "\".   I notice there are 2 Conversion Cache folders, one inside the other - the parent one being "J River" rather than "JRiver".  Is it supposed to be this way or can I get rid of one of these?   I will attach a screenshot of my completed changes.

Step #7 question:  Let me see if I understand.... 
You say after deleting the bad Library and I load the one from Main Library, if that one turns out to be the Real McCoy (i.e. different from the one I backed up in Step 2, I should NOT proceed, I should stop and post again.   Am I correct in assuming this newly loaded library will be different from the one I backed up in step 2 & 4?

Step #9 comment/question:
I have never done anything with DIRTV2PC.  I've never seen this before (not that I can recall) and have no idea what this is or where it came from.  Could it be a default on MAC?  That said, should I delete it or do anything with it?

FYI, lots of freezing, quitting & restarting the app during this process.  Sure hope this doesn't have any ill effects.

[tangolovers]

****  HELP...   CURRENTLY STUCK ON STEP 6 ****

When I select "Playing from MC Library Backup", all libraries are grayed out and not selectable!  HELP!  NEED YOUR HELP TO CONTINUE.  SEE SCREENSHOT.

Also added screenshot of Bad Main Library.

[RoderickGI]

Your screenshot is a zero byte file. Didn't work. No image.

Okay, second screenshot worked.

[RoderickGI]

Try clicking on the "Bad Main Library" item, and see if there is a delete button shown.

If not try just pressing the Delete (or Mac equivalent) key while the "Bad Main Library" item is selected.

[tangolovers]

I tried all of the above.  Delete is grayed out on right-click of Bad Main Library. Pressing the delete key did nothing.  Just sent you a screenshot and you'll see there's not option to delete it.  ?

Here's another screenshot when I hover the cursor... message doesn't seem very insightful.  Also one of right click menu.

[RoderickGI]

Okay. Skip deleting the "Bad Main Library" for now, and we will come back to that.

I suspect it can't be deleted because the path is bad, with a backslash on the end.

But then the "Main Library" is also greyed out preventing delete. Hmmm.

Try moving on to step 7, and see if the "Main Library" will load.

[tangolovers]

What about trying to load the Bad Main Library and correcting the path (if that's possible)?

Main Library Loaded!

[RoderickGI]

Commented on post "Reply 16" above.
Step 3a
If you normally have all your videos on an external hard drive, and it isn't always connected, Make sure that the setting "Fix Broken Links" in the Tasks section of the Auto Import configuration is set to "Yes (protect files on missing drives)" or "No". I prefer the former. The latter is safer but will mean any broken links need to be fixed manually. With all you have going on, it is probably easier to let MC fix some links. Although setting it to "No" may show you more of what is going on in your Library.
I assume that when you say you have pointed it to My Movies, you mean in Auto Import configuration? There was no need to do that if the above setting was correct. Unless you wanted some movies to test with, but even then, not really. You could have just imported a Sigle Folder, being the My Movies folder.
I didn't notice the double "J River Conversion Cache\" folders before. You can set the conversion cache location wherever you want. It is best not to have it under the media files locations though, as MC will try to import those files. That could have been the source of your Duplicates. I guess a suitable location for all media types would be:
"/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/J River Conversion Cache/"

Step 7
Yes. The "Main Library" may be your original and good copy MC Library. At some stage you created a Library callled "MC Library Backup", loaded that, and then you kept using that Library, as you had the setting "Options > Startup > Library > Always load default library" unchecked.
What is listed under the "Playing from ..." section under "Playing Now" is all the Libraries that exist in this installation of MC. You have four, of which only two seem valid.

Step 9
Okay, We will look at that later then.

Lots of freezing is a bit of a worry. It could be that this installation is just broken. Make sure you have those backups, because if none of this works, you might need to completely uninstall MC and reinstall, then Restore one of those backups.

[RoderickGI]

What about trying to load the Bad Main Library and correcting the path (if that's possible)?

No.

Main Library Loaded!

Excellent. Check if this is your real, original Library, and if you want to keep and switch to using it.

[tangolovers]

Regarding your Reply 23 & 24:

I have Fix Broken Links set to "Yes (Protect Files on Missing Drives). 

In Options > File Locations > Other Video I changed the folder from "H:\..."  (which was complete wrong anyhow) to /Users/susiemelo/Movies/ since that's all I have for now - here are a couple of insignificant movies in there now. I did not do this in auto import configuration.  I'm not sure where I'd do this specifically for movies.

I like your suggestions about Conversion Cache, I just made the changes.   FYI, I think MC defaults to putting it in the Media Folders, which was never my idea and I never liked. Since they always seemed empty I often deleted them.    Won't do that again. 

I don't ever remember "Loading" any file, because I was unaware of this possibility before... unless my fast fingers accidentally did it unknowingly.  Is it considered good practice to have "Always load default library" checked (given I'm only using 1 library for now)?

Yes, this newly loaded Main Library is the Real McCoy!!   I will assume I keep moving and come back to Step 6.

All steps completed & my new Backup is named  "MC Library Backup (Main Library - 2019-12-01).zip"  just like you said!  WHEW!!!   

I've attached a screenshot of my updated File Locations as well as the final "Playing for Main Library screen".

Now, if we can just delete the Bad Main Library and port this puppy to my PC I'll be in hog heaven!

[RoderickGI]

I have Fix Broken Links set to "Yes (Protect Files on Missing Drives). 

Good.

In Options > File Locations > Other Video I changed the folder from "H:\..."  (which was complete wrong anyhow) to /Users/susiemelo/Movies/ since that's all I have for now - here are a couple of insignificant movies in there now. I did not do this in auto import configuration.  I'm not sure where I'd do this specifically for movies.

I missed that H:\ drive path. Good catch.

I like your suggestions about Conversion Cache, I just made the changes.

I've attached a screenshot of my updated File Locations as well as the final "Playing for Main Library screen".

Your image shows that you still have "/J River/Conversion Cache/J River Conversion Cache/" in the path. You might want to simplify that to, for example:
"/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/J River Conversion Cache/"

Note that you could still have separate conversion caches for each media type, just don't have them under the media storage location, as they could then be imported. So these would be acceptable:
"/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/Music/J River Conversion Cache/"
"/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/Video/J River Conversion Cache/"
"/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/Images/J River Conversion Cache/"

Those would be fine, because, for example, your audio files will be under "/Users/susiemelo/Music/", and that is where Auto Import should look for new music, so it won't find any cached files.

Also note that I have set my Audio cache to "None", as I don't want to keep audio conversions created when I sync music to my phone, since I don't like the way MC handles those cached files. If a cache is set to "None" MC still creates intermediate files, but puts then in the Temp folder, which later gets emptied. But if you don't use the Handheld Sync capability, no harm in having the audio cache.

Is it considered good practice to have "Always load default library" checked (given I'm only using 1 library for now)?

Yes.

Yes, this newly loaded Main Library is the Real McCoy!!   I will assume I keep moving and come back to Step 6.

Wow. I should have asked you to load that Library and check if it was your original earlier. It could have saved a lot of work!

At least now you have backups of both Library versions, and I hope a better understanding of how Libraries work in MC.

I still don't know how to delete those unwanted Libraries on a Mac. On Windows I would delve into the depths of the Registry and fix this. But on a Mac I've forgotten how to do such things. Digging around in the bowels of an Operating System is high risk anyway, so should only be done if really required. Maybe a Mac user could speak up and provide an answer?

All steps completed & my new Backup is named  "MC Library Backup (Main Library - 2019-12-01).zip"  just like you said!  WHEW!!!

Excellent.

Now, if we can just delete the Bad Main Library and port this puppy to my PC I'll be in hog heaven!

I suggest that you use that Mac library for a while, and make very sure it is the one you want to use, has everything fixed in it, and you are ready to move it to your Windows PC.

[RoderickGI]

By the way, can I ask why you don't just use your Mac as a MC Server, and then use the Windows PC as a MC Client? That way you wouldn't have to worry about Library transfers from OSX to Windows.

Sure, it would mean that the Mac would have to be turned on, or able to be woken, whenever you wanted to play stuff on the PC, but it would be simpler.

MC's Client/Server functionality works pretty well. If you do all your MC maintenance on the Mac, and not on the PC, that should work fine.

Something to think about. Perhaps read up on "Media Network" and "Media Server" in the Wiki.

[tangolovers]

Your image shows that you still have "/J River/Conversion Cache/J River Conversion Cache/" in the path. You might want to simplify that to, for example:
"/Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/J River Conversion Cache/"

I had too much trouble getting the J River Conversion Cache to point to the right folder and it kept creating new folders, so I set it to none.  I hope I don't regret it, but sounds better. I've attached a screenshot of all the J River Conversion Cache folders I now have in Finder.  Is it safe to delete them manually - outside of MC??  THey're all over the place, in my Media folders, in my Application Support folders etc... see screenshot.

I'm ready to move everything to the PC now!   I do not wish too make any more changes to the Library itself until it's on the PC. 

BTW, I used to go back and forth (between PC & MAC) all the time and had zero issues.  I finally posted my process for others to see.  I was very pleased that I finally figured this out on my own (of course with some help from the forum).  But suddenly (after 2 years of going between MAC & PC), I am unable to migrate to either of my PC's (Windows 7 & 10).  I don't know if has to do with updates to MC, Windows or something else.  Here's the link to where I posted my process (that used to work):  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111695.msg771944.html#msg771944.

As for using MAC as a server, I want to be able to take the PC anywhere without having to depend on the MAC.  Once I have it working on my PC, I plan to use my PC as the master, doing all the work there instead.  However, I will still want to occasionally port it to the MAC to keep the MAC up to date, but it's not critical since I don't use it for playback (right now). 

Ultimately, I think would like to have all my music on an external HD along with an image of MC so I can run it from anywhere (not sure if this will work on a MAC), but at least on any PC in case we're traveling and we want to use it I won't need my whole computer.  I've heard of this being done successfully.  But I'll tackle that after I have it running well on my PC.

p.s. I'll be out most of the day on Monday, so won't be able to read/respond until late afternoon/evening PST.

[RoderickGI]

The "/J River/cache/" is normal and is used by MC for other stuff. Don't delete that one. I think it will just be recreated anyway.

If you have set all cache setting to None, you will probably want to turn it back on for video, where transcoding during streaming is more common. When you set a cache folder you need to Browse to an existing folder, or to the parent of where you want it and create the cache folder in the dialogue. You can't just type in the path you want to use. If you did, that could be why MC kept making new cache folders. But maybe they were just typos, or the result of previous changes? With and without the space. With and without the "/J River" prefix.

Anyway, if you have any cache settings set to a folder, keep that one. The others can be manually deleted, especially the ones in your Media folders.

I don't know what broke your transfer process, but if you have always been on MC23, it would seem it was an Operating System change. Certainly, Windows 10 has had many changes that could have broken the process. It also could have been a settings change that MC remembered, such as the "Replace slashes in expressions" setting in the RM&CF function.

I can understand why you don't want to use Client/Server now. As you wish to use the Windows (Windows 10 PC, rather than Windows 7?), then I suggest that you do a transfer to the primary Windows PC, fix it so that it works correctly as a Windows PC, and then only the transfer to the Mac needs special handling. This makes much more sense as you have two Windows PCs, and Library Backups can be used between them without any special process.

Just on the topic of transferring from the Windows PC to the Mac in future, MC25 has new functionality which allows a Library from a PC to be restored to and used on a Mac. I referred to that functionality in this post to you on one of your other threads: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123138.msg853048.html#msg853048

What I suggest that you do is get MC23 working on your Windows PC, then upgrade all copies of MC to a MC26 licence, which will work with the latest versions of MC25. With MC25 installed, your transfers to the Mac should be painless, or at least much easier than your previous process. Of course, I haven't tested that new functionality, because I don't have a Mac, but others seem to be using it, at least for moving a Mac Library to Linux. If the new functionality doesn't work, JRiver will fix it, or should, as it is very new and they want people to use and improve new functionality.


I'll do a new post to talk about the transfer you need to do now from the Mac to the PC.

For your ultimate goal of having all of MC and your music on an external hard drive, and running it from there, MC has a custom installation process called a "Portable Install". You could build that from a Windows installation, and then run it on any Windows PC. I don't think there is an equivalent for creating a Portable Installation on a Mac, and a Windows based Portable Installation won't run on a Mac.

To create a Portable Installation on a PC you just need to run the MC installation program and select a "Custom Install", then tick the correct box and answer the prompts. Again, I haven't built one of these, but other people are using this functionality.

[RoderickGI]

Right, on to the transfer process from the Mac to the PC.

I know you were very pleased with the transfer process you worked out and documented, but I am going to improve and simplify it. I can't test it, but it should make your life easier. I'll copy and edited your process so you can see the differences.

******* TO MIGRATE MEDIA CENTER LIBRARY FROM MAC TO PC ******

0. On both the Mac and Windows PC, turn off Auto Import before doing anything else. This will stop all your media files from being imported into the Library with the correct Windows paths, before you can fix the Mac paths, so you won't have to delete anything from the Library before fixing paths.
Untick "Options > Library & Folders > Run auto-import in background" in the Mac and Windows PCs.

1.  On MAC:   Back up library:  File > Library > Backup Library .

2.  Transfer library backup ZIP file from MAC to PC.

3.  Make sure all songs that were imported on MAC are on a drive that PC can see.  I used the exact same drive and folders.  It just appears as a different path on MAC versus PC, and of course Mac uses slashes ( / ) while the PC uses backslashes ( \ ).

4. On PC go to Tools>Options>File Location>Program Files>Library Backups> select path for Library. This step is not required.

5.  Run a Restore Library on PC using transferred MAC Library Backup:
File > Library > Restore Library > (choose backup file that you transferred in step 2 by clicking Browse and navigating to where you saved the Library Backup zip file on the PC).  When this is complete you'll see all of your songs, playlists, views, etc.  But the songs will all be "missing" and will have red minus signs ( - ) next to them.

VERY IMPORTANT!!    Now I see 2 versions of each song – one with MAC path (and “-“ next to them) and the other has a Windows path (these actually play). Not any more! Because Auto Import is off.

Now, Go to Audio files and…

6.   Sort by “Filename (Path)”, this will separate the files with Windows vs Mac file path.

7.   Highlight all files with a PC Path C:\Users\susie\Music\My Music\   (or whatever your audio path is...)
These files are the playable ones and will NOT have “-“ next to them (doesn’t seem logical but it will work)

8.   Right click and select Delete>Remove from Media Library.  All remaining files should have “-“ and the original MAC Path  /Users/susiemelo/Music/My Music/  (these files are not playable)
No longer required because Auto Import is off and so the Windows version of the files were not imported.

9.   Highlight all remaining files in the Library with “-", which should all still have a MAC Path then…
       
        Tools>Library Tools>Rename, Move & Copy>
        “Update Database to point to new location” (Do not use Rename)
           Uncheck all boxes except Find & Replace.  (Do not check Convert Windows file path to Mac/Linux)
           Now here we have a difference between MC23 and MC25 I think. I don't have MC23 installed any more to check, and I certainly don't have the Mac version to check. However, in the MC25 Windows version there is a setting near the bottom of the dialogue called "Replace slashes in expressions" which I think needs to be ticked to convert Mac to Windows paths and vice versa. Or maybe it converts slashes to underscore. Check what the Preview is showing and set that checkbox to get the correct result. If it mucks things up you can just Restore a backup again.
       
Find What:   /Users/susiemelo/Music/My Music/
                                     (or whatever your MAC path is)
Replace With:   C:\Users\susie\Music\My Music\
                                (or whatever your Windows path shows in audio)

10. Turn Auto Import back on in MC.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Windows Library should then show the files as available, and they should be playable. You will want to check MC settings, particularly Auto Import and "File Location".

Run with that Library for a while, then think about my suggestion to upgrade to a MC26 licence as above.

[tangolovers]

Responding to your Reply #29

Regarding the Conversion Cache, Video is now pointing to: /Users/susiemelo/Library/Application Support/J River/JRiver Conversion Cache/.  I was unable to get it to point to J River Conversion Cache (note space between J River).  It kept defaulting to JRiver Conversion Cache unless I was doing something wrong. But seems like it doesn't matter.

I don't know what broke your transfer process, but if you have always been on MC23, it would seem it was an Operating System change. Certainly, Windows 10 has had many changes that could have broken the process. It also could have been a settings change that MC remembered, such as the "Replace slashes in expressions" setting in the RM&CF function.

I haven’t always been on MC23, I think I started on MC18 or something.  I believe "Replace slashes in expressions" has always been checked.  Not sure I understand what it does, but what’s the best default (or suggestion when to check/not check)?

As you wish to use the Windows (Windows 10 PC, rather than Windows 7?), then I suggest that you do a transfer to the primary Windows PC, fix it so that it works correctly as a Windows PC, and then only the transfer to the Mac needs special handling. This makes much more sense as you have two Windows PCs, and Library Backups can be used between them without any special process.

Actually, I will only have 2 computers going forward - my MAC and the new Windows 10 machine, which will be primary for MC & used for Playback.  The Windows 10 machine is much bigger & faster than the Windows 7 dinosaur with a 10” monitor which will be trashed.  Once MC is back on my PC, I really can’t see the need to transfer between MAC & PC too often, unless I swear off Windows for good.  I grew up on DOS & Windows for the past 40 years and after the last straw I switched to MAC with no regrets – other than it’s too expensive to buy a smaller portable one for playback.

Just on the topic of transferring from the Windows PC to the Mac in future, MC25 has new functionality which allows a Library from a PC to be restored to and used on a Mac. I referred to that functionality in this post to you on one of your other threads: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123138.msg853048.html#msg853048

Great news!!  I got so absorbed in this issue, I never went back and looked at my other posts.  I think they are obsolete at this point.  Can/should they be deleted?

What I suggest that you do is get MC23 working on your Windows PC, then upgrade all copies of MC to a MC26 license, which will work with the latest versions of MC25. With MC25 installed, your transfers to the Mac should be painless, or at least much easier than your previous process.

I could upgrade right now, especially if you think MC25/MC26 will help me get from MAC to PC easier.  I would absolutely do that.  In either case, I'll probably upgrade within the few days.

Unless you tell me that Upgrading to MC25/MC26 will get me to the PC faster and easier, I will start working on your instructions tomorrow afternoon/evening when I return.

Thannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnk You!!!!!!!!!

[RoderickGI]

All good with the cache issue.

I think the "Replace slashes in expressions" used to just replace all slashes in expressions with underscores, but I think the functionality has been updated, without the Wiki being updated. Anyway, just check the RM&CF Preview and pick the best option for that setting.

My first PC was an IBM running DOS 1.0 or 1.1, with two floppy disk drives. At least I think it had two. Might have been one, later upgraded to two. Later I got the huge upgrade to a floppy plus a 10MB hard drive. Memories!

Posts don't need to be deleted. I can't anyway. Not an Admin. You can but I wouldn't bother.

The new functionality works by mapping a path from one OS to a path on another OS. As Windows will be your primary OS, I recommend you do the transfer to Windows as per above, and then use the new functionality for future transfers to the Mac.

Probably best to get the transfer to Windows done on MC23, which is a known entity, then upgrade, which should be pretty easy but could add unknowns. Then set up the "Portable Library" settings and transfer back to the Mac.

I'm not sure if the discounted upgrade price is still available... Yes it is: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122405.0.html. That could be a deciding factor. Of course, you could upgrade soon to get any discount and install later.

[tangolovers]

Good morning RoderickGI.  Couldn't sleep... I was dying to do the port to PC before leaving.... starting with the Windows 7 machine so I don't goof up the new one until I know what I'm doing.

I followed the directions and looks like it went perfect.  Almost.

My first attempt to restore - everything looked great initially so I immediately (too soon) re-checked Auto-Import, but this added 55 files to my Audio list and my playlists were missing many files, one was missing over 200 tracks.

My second attempt to restore - looked even better.  I had exactly the same number of audio files (as the MAC) were recognized on my PC and I was able to change the paths so they were recognized.  Playlists all have the right number of files too!!  The "-" all went away and everything looked playable again.  BTW, thank you for telling me where the checkbox was for Auto-Import - I had a hunch this had something to do with my troubles before, but didn't know where the box was (embarrased).

But then, something happens...   With Auto-Import still Un-ticked, the problems started.  One by one many (random) files reverted to unplayable "-".  This was after my second attempt to restore.  The playlists still have the correct number of files, just many with "-".  Paths are correct.  I tried selecting an album and doing a Locate, but that didn't work either.  I verified & re-verified the paths.  Can't find any inconsistencies.  ARG...   

After waiting about an hour and nothing happened, I re-checked Auto-Import.  It found the one's that had "-" (743 to be exact) and re-imported them. This time it only added 35 files to my Audio list & resulted in missing files from the playlists again - but not so bad as before.

I know it's probably something very stupid & simple like a check box - just can't figure it out!  So frustrating!

My first PC was an IBM running DOS 1.0 or 1.1, with two floppy disk drives. At least I think it had two. Might have been one, later upgraded to two. Later I got the huge upgrade to a floppy plus a 10MB hard drive. Memories!

Looks like we grew up in the same era .  You just described my first computer.

[tangolovers]

Hello RoderickGI, I'm back online.  Hopefully you'll have some more ideas up your sleeve...

[RoderickGI]

Hmmm. Complex.

First set the Auto Import setting "Fix Broken Links" to "No" for now. It can do some strange things when set to "Yes (protect files on missing drives)", I'm told, though I haven't seen it myself. Better to be safe for now, and that will provide visibility of any issues.

Now let me clarify. Both the Mac and the PC have copies of your music files on their own internal drives, correct? Your videos are on an external drive, but your music is on an internal drive with exactly the same path and file naming, underneath the "My Music" folder?
So on Windows your music is under the root path of: C:\Users\susie\Music\My Music\
On Mac your music is under the root path of: /Users/susiemelo/Music/My Music/

In both cases, setting "Fix Broken Links" to "Yes (protect files on missing drives)" doesn't protect any missing files on internal drives, and you music is on internal drives for each PC. I should have thought of that. But I assumed that each computer had an exact copy of your audio files. It seems they do not.

You see with Auto Import off, if files are reverting to "not found by MC", as shown by the "-" image, then MC isn't finding the file in the expected place, and is changing their status as you navigate around Views.


So now, do a new Restore of the backup, and do not "Restore settings". Only "Restore Library and playlists", using the check boxes in the Restore process. As you haven't run Auto Import yet after the second Restore, this step probably isn't required, but it doesn't take long and it gets us back to a known condition.

Now, you have an Audio > Panes View. Open that and make sure all files are being displayed using the column selections at the top, then enter this expression in the search field in the top right corner of MC:
[=ismissing([filename])]=1

See https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Test_and_Comparison_Functions#IsMissing for reference.

Your Panes View will now show all files that MC can't find under the "C:\Users\susie\Music\My Music\" directory. The View may take a while to finish displaying results. Now that you have a View of all missing files, start checking the path and filename on the Mac under the "/Users/susiemelo/Music/My Music/" folder. If you like you can print the results of the View using the "File > Print list" menu item. You probably don't want to print all page though if there are hundreds. Just print a sample. You may also want to copy your existing Panes View (drag it to the Audio group heading and select "Copy" on the small popup menu), and then modify the columns to make a printed list more useful. i.e. You may only want the [Album], [Artist], [Name] and [Filename] columns for the printed list, as you are only checking filenames, but the other fields help confirm what the file is.

If a sample of the missing files match from the PC to the Mac, then check on the PC using Windows Explorer. They can't be there. There must be some slight difference. The fact that the "right-click > Locate > On Disk (external)" function doesn't find the files shows there must be a difference. Check carefully. Report back. Specifically, if you can find all the files on the PC in the correct place, but MC can't find them, copy the full path and filename from inside MC and paste it in a post, and then do the same for the file from Windows Explorer.

For example, the first line below is from the MC [Filename] field, the second from Windows Explorer (concatenating the path and filename copied from Explorer, only adding in a \ between them):
F:\JRiver MC AMINTHA Local Media\Music\(Multiple Artists)\Private Compilation 001\03 - Linkin Park - Points of Authority (live, Docklands Arena, London).flac
F:\JRiver MC AMINTHA Local Media\Music\(Multiple Artists)\Private Compilation 001\03 - Linkin Park - Points of Authority (live, Docklands Arena, London).flac

Identical. No funny characters. No invalid characters replaced with position holders, like an underscore.




We probably should have fixed one of the Windows PCs first, and then fixed the Mac. But I thought you were making your Mac the primary computer. Oh well.

[tangolovers]

JUST HAD 2 "AH HA" MOMENTS!!    SEE BELOW!!!!!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please pray it's simple!!  I'm nervous because I was supposed to have my music for an event this Sunday...

Both MAC & PC have exact copies of the music files on their Internal HD's.   I can change that if necessary.   I am 99.999% sure both machines have exactly the same music on each because I just re-ported it to the PC on Saturday to be sure, but I can recopy again if you suggest.   ** HOWEVER (AH HA #1) ** I just discovered that MC appears to have added some files to my Music folders because I just discovered  files that weren't there before.  For example, in the first folder I checked, there are duplicates of the same file, but the duplicates start with "._".  For example, I see the following 2 files:

02 Pedacito de Cielo
._02 Pedacito de Cielo

They are definitely not on my MAC like this and were not like this when I copied them to the PC.  Just did a search on "._" and found 53 such files!!!  I've already started a re-copy to an external HD to do a clean transfer again to PC.  Alternatively, I can just delete these instances.  Unfortunately, Windows Properties & MAC Get Info, do not return total number of files/folders in the same way, so they aren't useful to make sure they both have exactly the same number of files.

Videos are lost in action somewhere on an External drive that I've misplaced. 

You are correct about my music file paths - but here it is for each machine:

MAC:                   /Users/susiemelo/Music/My Music/
PC(Windows 7):    D:\Music\My Music\                           
PC(Windows 10):  C:\Users\susie\Music\My Music\

I haven't done anything with Windows 10 machine yet, since my initial attempt last week.  I went back to Windows7 machine because that's where I was last playing it a week a go and I'd rather experiment on that machine until I get it right - unless you think otherwise.

You see with Auto Import off, if files are reverting to "not found by MC", as shown by the "-" image, then MC isn't finding the file in the expected place, and is changing their status as you navigate around Views.
 

Just did another Restore as you suggested (w/Restore Settings unchecked), after setting Fix Broken Links to NO and I am getting the results…  many random files just do not play – one song in one album, 2 songs in another and sometimes a whole album.  I have checked the actual path of many of these files that have a “-“ and the paths are exactly the same as what I see in MC, so I’m bewildered.  If I did a select all and Update Location, then how could it find some songs and not others w/in the same album??  Can this be possible?

LIGHT BULB JUST WENT ON (AH HA #2)!!!!!!!!!!!!!    I THINK I SEE WHAT IT MAY BE…..

About half of our music is Latino (French or Ethnic) and their spelling includes typical letters like áñéé.   I have never had trouble with these on this machine before, but it seems like it could be the culprit now.   I put on my analytical hat and began scanning the music to look for something other than the path names.   Every songs I looked at and everyone so far with a “-“ has a special character somewhere in it’s path.   The problem will be how to solve this.  It never caused an issue transferring before and if I do a re-import on the PC it recognizes everything.  Could it be a bug or otherwise in this version of MC?

Hmmm. Complex.
Now, you have an Audio > Panes View. Open that and make sure all files are being displayed using the column selections at the top, then enter this expression in the search field in the top right corner of MC:
[=ismissing([filename])]=1

See https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Test_and_Comparison_Functions#IsMissing for reference.

Hallelujah… I’ve been wondering how to isolate only the files that have “-“!!!!   (1060 to be exact).  Not sure I’d be able to figure out how to use some of the other functions, but at least I know they’re there.

I wanted to get this message while I continue to look at the next steps…  Please let me know what you think.

[RoderickGI]

I think you are on the right track.

You have to compare the full content of the [Filename] field, which includes the Path and Filename, with what Windows sees. So if the Windows filenames are slightly different, that is the problem.

So do the accents show up in MC but not in Windows Explorer, or is it the other way around?

There is one setting in MC that might be the issue. "Options > Tree & View > Sorting > Ignore accents when sorting". But that is just used for sorting and not likely to be your issue.

[RoderickGI]

I think you edited the above post while I was typing and looking at stuff, as I'm pretty sure there was only one Ah ha on my first read. 

On a Mac files that start with a dot "." are hidden. So for example, the file "._02 Pedacito de Cielo" is on the Mac, it is just hidden.

They are files that OSX creates and uses for... something. This is why Windows Properties & MAC Get Info, do not return the same total number of files/folders. Googling would probably find the answer. I don't believe they are media files though, or playable. When I get a drive or USB stick from someone who uses a Mac, I just delete those files. They are no use on Windows.

[tangolovers]

You have to compare the full content of the [Filename] field, which includes the Path and Filename, with what Windows sees. So if the Windows filenames are slightly different, that is the problem.

So do the accents show up in MC but not in Windows Explorer, or is it the other way around?

There is one setting in MC that might be the issue. "Options > Tree & View > Sorting > Ignore accents when sorting". But that is just used for sorting and not likely to be your issue.

The special characters are both in MC as well as in the Music Folders (PC & MAC).  There is NO difference!  The names in MC look EXACTLY the same as in Explorer, **HOWEVER**, in MC I  selected rename on pathname (in this "-" list) and surprise!!   Wherever there was a special character I would see a space after that character, but as soon as I exit Rename it looks normal again.  Example:

Filename:        \03 Sueña.flac
In Rename:     \03 Sueñ a.flac

If I delete the space in Rename, the file is recognized and plays.  Again, I HAVE DONE this transfer many times and never had this happen.  This is new!

I think you edited the above post while I was typing and looking at stuff, as I'm pretty sure there was only one Ah ha on my first read. 

On a Mac files that start with a dot "." are hidden. So for example, the file "._02 Pedacito de Cielo" is on the Mac, it is just hidden.

They are files that OSX creates and uses for... something. This is why Windows Properties & MAC Get Info, do not return the same total number of files/folders. Googling would probably find the answer. I don't believe they are media files though, or playable. When I get a drive or USB stick from someone who uses a Mac, I just delete those files. They are no use on Windows.

Forgive me for editing my text.  I know it's bad behavior, but I've been doing that a bit, because this is moving so fast and I don't want to create lots of extra posts to cause confusion.  You're right, I started w/only 1 AhHa moment and then when I discovered the other one after I posted I went back and edited.

My music just finished copying to the External drive and as you said it has appended these extra files.  I knew about the ".ds_Store files" and I had to delete these before, although it doesn't always create them.  These other files with "._" were something I hadn't seen before.  I just deleted all of those.  I will call Apple to see if we can stop that from happening...

Now that I have deleted all of those unexpected files, what do you recommend?

[tangolovers]

There is one setting in MC that might be the issue. "Options > Tree & View > Sorting > Ignore accents when sorting". But that is just used for sorting and not likely to be your issue.

It's not just accents that are the problem, it's also tildes (over the n or N) and possibly other special characters typical to Latin, French, Italian etc, but so far I only see accents & tildes.

[RoderickGI]

Filename:        \03 Sueña.flac
In Rename:     \03 Sueñ a.flac

Well, there is your problem. So when you use the "Find & Replace" function of RM&CF during your transfer process, MC adds a space (probably a NULL character) into the file name, which doesn't show up in MC or Windows Explorer. This is why I asked you to do this:

For example, the first line below is from the MC [Filename] field, the second from Windows Explorer (concatenating the path and filename copied from Explorer, only adding in a \ between them):
F:\JRiver MC AMINTHA Local Media\Music\(Multiple Artists)\Private Compilation 001\03 - Linkin Park - Points of Authority (live, Docklands Arena, London).flac
F:\JRiver MC AMINTHA Local Media\Music\(Multiple Artists)\Private Compilation 001\03 - Linkin Park - Points of Authority (live, Docklands Arena, London).flac

I was hoping that in copying, and not retyping, the file names, any special characters would still be visible if I pasted them into a Hex editor. That was a bit of a long shot, but worth a try.

Now that I have deleted all of those unexpected files, what do you recommend?

If you are happy to do so, could you share say five files that show the problem? I could have a look at them and try to work out how to do a mass fix. Upload them to a file-sharing site like Google Drive, OneDrive, or Dropbox, and then PM me the link. I suspect that there has been a change of character set somewhere in the life of those files, perhaps driven by a change in Language used on one of your PCs, or an OS update or something. Maybe a setting in Finder when you used it to copy the files?

I'm guessing a bit here. But if I can look at some files I might be able to work out a fix. Probably not until tomorrow morning though, 18 hours away. So if you can do some research and find a solution in the meantime, go right ahead!

If there is a NULL character in the file name, and if you can either enter or copy that NULL Character into the "Find & Replace" function of RM&CF, you may be able to do a mass replace for all file of the NULL character with nothing. That's my curreny thinking anyway.

There may be a technically better solution. Maybe even a fix in MC, but that would only happen in MC26, so not much use for MC23 or MC25. If someone else reading this has a better idea, share it!

[tangolovers]

Wow... some really tough questions/requests…

Isn't it a little curious that I’ve been successfully transferring files between MAC & PC from 2017 until until now, yet never had an issue with special characters?  I feel like if we could figure out what changed, we’d be much closer to a solution.   Suspecting the external HD since it was ExFat format and not knowing what format HD I previously used I formatted a new drive using WindowsNT.  I then re-copied all music folders & Library to PC.  Unfortunately, no difference except no “._” files.  As for the “.ds_” files, I delete all 243 of those.   There are still 1060 non-playable files with this special character problem. 

Hmmm. Complex.
For example, the first line below is from the MC [Filename] field, the second from Windows Explorer (concatenating the path and filename copied from Explorer, only adding in a \ between them):
F:\JRiver MC AMINTHA Local Media\Music\(Multiple Artists)\Private Compilation 001\03 - Linkin Park - Points of Authority (live, Docklands Arena, London).flac
F:\JRiver MC AMINTHA Local Media\Music\(Multiple Artists)\Private Compilation 001\03 - Linkin Park - Points of Authority (live, Docklands Arena, London).flac

The only way I know to copy filename is via Rename>Ctrl-A>Copy>Paste into an email on PC then emailing to MAC... is this what you need?  No idea how to paste into HEX editor.

Explorer:    D:\Music\My Music\! NEW IMPORT\08 Bésame Mucho.mp3  (Copied from Home Tab Ribbon)
MC             D:\Music\My Music\! NEW IMPORT\08 Bésame Mucho.mp3  (Copied using Rename, Ctrl-A, Copy/Paste)

These both look perfect - right?  But in Rename mode, the file name looks something like \08 Be' same Mucho.mp3 (see screenshots). 

****  BIG SURPRISE!!!  THERE IS NO SPACE – NO NULL!!!    ****
I discovered Rename in MC is placing the special character next to its’ respective letter giving the appearance of a space in both file names & paths (see screenshots).  As soon as I exit Rename, it looks exactly like it does in Explorer but doesn’t play.  The surprise is when attempting to delete the space, it deletes the special character instead - because there is no space!  Then the song becomes playable.  Seems crazy to remove all special characters – especially since they never caused an issue in the past!   The special characters do not affect playback when done directly from Explorer.   See 2 screenshots from Windows7 PC.

I suspect that there has been a change of character set somewhere in the life of those files, perhaps driven by a change in Language used on one of your PCs, or an OS update or something. Maybe a setting in Finder when you used it to copy the files?

Totally agree!  It seems like something wrong the underlying representation of these files (or special characters or character set) that have been altered either in the Backup/Restore or copy/transfer process, or possibly something w/MC. But this something was not happening in the past!!!  My process was exactly the same as before – I always followed my written instructions precisely, so nothing different in Finder that I’m aware of.

Personally, I feel like it’s has more to do with Library Backup/Restore vs transferring of files.  Because the file count is the same except these hidden/invisible files (which are far fewer than the non-working ones).  I'm not inclined to blame Apple's invisible extensions because MC transfers worked so seamlessly for so long.  Plus, I would expect playback in Explorer to be affected as well.   

If you are happy to do so, could you share say five files that show the problem? I could have a look at them and try to work out how to do a mass fix. Upload them to a file-sharing site like Google Drive, OneDrive, or Dropbox, and then PM me the link.?

I’m delighted to share whatever files you like!  But is a mass fix still viable in the absence of a null space?   I'm not sure how to upload using the above methods, so I for now I uploaded to my FTP site.  Here’s the link:

http://www.xotango.com/ftp-archive/MediaCenter/

If there is a NULL character in the file name, and if you can either enter or copy that NULL Character into the "Find & Replace" function of RM&CF, you may be able to do a mass replace for all file of the NULL character with nothing. That's my curreny thinking anyway.

Regarding your Find & Replace suggestion:  Since I couldn’t isolate any Null character I couldn’t get it to work.  Is it still relevant if there’s no space?

BTW – The topic of my post no longer matches our quest, perhaps it would help to change something (i.e. separate the post, change title) to illicit more input?

Meanwhile, doing a factory reset on new Windows10 machine to start fresh with MC23.

HELP!!   I’M STUCK!!  Can I run MC26 w/o changing my MC23?  Would I be worth purchasing it to see if anything changes, or is it too soon?

[RoderickGI]

I have learned some stuff from your last post, particularly the images you attached, and the files you shared. I probably have a fix that can be used on mass.

I was going to wait until you finished re-copying your files to a drive formatted in NTFS to see if that fixed the problem, but that step seems to have disappeared from your post. You were trying that, weren't you? Did it not work?

SOLUTION:
It appears, based on the sample files you shared, that all your files have the same naming structure, "[Track #] - [Name]".

If that is the case, and the metadata is correct for all the problem files, I think all you have to do is rename the files using the RM&CF function in MC. Don't move them. Just use the "Filename" rule as per the attached image. Try this for just one file first. Once the file is renamed, check in MC that when you edit the file name using the Rename function you no longer see "Huraca´n" but see "Huracán" instead.

Then check if the file now plays. I can't check this part of the process, because as we know, if the "bad" files are re-imported they work fine anyway, even though special characters display incorrectly when edited.

Note that in the example I am using there is a (1) suffix on the file name, which would have been put there because it was a second copy of a file in the same directory at some time. I'm assuming that the original file is gone now, or you may get some naming clashes. If that is the case you will need to handle those files separately, and decide which of the two versions you want to keep.

Of course, if the metadata for some files is incorrect, specifically the [Track #] and [Name] fields, then you will need to fix those. But the same process should work. i.e. Rename the files using RM&CF and source data that displays correctly when edited.  If you hand edit any [Name] fields with special characters, that new metadata should work.

So you may have to work through any special cases in groups of files. i.e. Those with suffixes that you want to keep, or those that need metadata to be fixed. Where the filename actually changes, you will need to update the files on your Mac as well. Hopefully, there won't be too many with a suffix that gets dropped.

If all is good, rename a few files and check that they worked. Once the process is proven, rename all files and your problem will be gone.



EXPLANATION:
I found that it is only the file name that has issues with special characters. The [Name], [Artist], [Album] fields, for example, which have special characters are fine when you try to edit them use the Rename function. The file name is using Compound characters, which means two characters are combined to create a special character. It is an alternate way to create special characters on a keyboard, and it seems that the individual components are saved with the data.

So taking the example file, "01 - El Huracán (1).mp3", when we edit that we see "01 - El Huraca´n (1).mp3". In a hex editor, the word Huracán looks like:
In "Huraca´n" from the [filename] field the á in HEX is 61 B4, so it is a compound character.
In "Huracán" from the [Name] field the á in HEX is E1

In the file system, at least on Windows, "01 - El Huracán (1).mp3" displays correctly, even when edited, but also:
In "Huraca´n" the á in HEX is 61 B4, so it is a also compound character.


I can only assume that is a file system, characters set, code page, or language issue, but I don't know where this came from, or why it is happening now, but hasn't before. Therefore, I don't know if it will happen again in future transfers. But if you upgrade to MC25 and use the new functionality, you won't need to use the old transfer process.

[tangolovers]

Thank you so much for not giving up on me!!!   I can’t believe the effort you have made to resolve this!!   Please forgive me for editing my reply again (I thought you weren’t looking yet ) but I never noticed the “Preview” button, so much easier!   Although I do wish they would make this typing window larger!  I will try to use Preview from now on.   Is there any way to Quote just a portion of a reply?  When I use Quote, it brings over the entire reply which I have to edit in Word to remove what I don't want in the quote.

Actually, I did reformat a completely new drive and no luck (see beginning of my previous reply)!!   I too had hopes this would be the fix. Negative.

After I did the Find/Rename on 5 files, some of them played and other's didn't.  I started doing one then accidentally selected all, so I got a mass Rename on all non-playing files.  Yikes!  Of the 1060 non-playing ones, 329 now play... leaving 731 to go.  At least we're progressing again. 

My observation is that for almost every one of these (not quite all  ) there is a special character in it's path, but for the renaming ones, I'm stumped.  For the one's that have a special character in their path, I'm trying to figure out how to fix it.  Strange thing is that after some of the renames, the file played and then it reverted back to "-".  (Run Auto-Import is still off & Fix Broken Links = NO).  As you will see from my Alabina1 screenshot - look at the 1st two songs...  The very fist song I tried this on when I was going one-by-one was "Suena" and it played, but then it reverted back.  Same w/"Besame Mucho".   You can see from the 2nd screenshot that Besame Mucho gets renamed, it plays, then reverts back to non-playing.   

This time I got prepared...  I tried it on "Alabina (span. Version)", 5th from the bottom of screenshot and same thing, only this time I got a before/after screenshot of the RM&CF window.  BTW, All of these files DO play when I click on them in Explorer... I checked it several times before.

Lastly, you will see the final screenshot of what remains after the mass rename. 

EXPLANATION:
I found that it is only the file name that has issues with special characters.

I think the path is affected too, because I get the same issue of apparent space there too, even when the file name has no special characters.  It sure seems that if the path has special characters they still aren't recognized.  The remaining question is what to do with the few that don't have special characters in file name or path... 

While you were writing, was frantically thinking what else I can do.  I’m still not too savvy with the form, but I started searching on “special characters” and seems like it's not the first time MC has had an issue with them.  In fact, I noticed that many of the posts involved MAC users or mixed platform situations. I'm starting to wonder a MAC update could be part of the issue.  I haven’t yet upgraded from Sierra to Maverick as I usually prefer to wait several months for kinks to get worked out.  Maybe it’s almost time.

Here are a couple of the links I ran across referencing MAC, but no helpful information:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114396.msg791107.html#msg791107 (a MAC user talking about mixed environments!!!)  YIKES!!!
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114396.msg804043.html#msg804043 (seems to be a MAC user)

[tangolovers]

WOW... ONE MORE AH-HA MOMENT!

As I study each song, one-by-one in Explorer, I discovered that many of them have (1) appended to the name.  I am thoroughly embarrassed that I didn't catch these before, although it's probably only a few hundred.  I know a lot about Windows, but no idea how to remove these in mass.  OR, maybe this can be on on the MAC then recopy all the music to the PC!!

As for he rest, they seem to have variations - such as a special character in the "Name", but not in the "Filename" (in Explorer), so I now realize that the mass rename may have changed some of the "Filenames" inappropriately.

For example - looking at one record in Explorer/Finder (on MAC):  Name=Jirón Porteño while Filename=05 - Jirón Porteno.mp3. 

Update To Post:
Regarding the Filenames ending in (1) in Explorer but not in MC:  I used RM&CM to change one filename in MC and it played. If I can Isolate all the one's that I know end in (1) & use MC to add the (1) to the names, is there way to then used MC to mass remove the (1) such that it will update the actual filename in Explorer removing all the (1)'s everywhere?  Otherwise, I'm hoping there's a way to do this in Windows, but not too hopeful.

I see how Rename updated the Filename and now the special "n" character appears in both Name/Filename in MC (on PC).  Explaining, why it still not-playable and path is normal.  Looks like I did not always use the same naming scheme.

Unfortunately, I'm doing this on the dinosaur PC, making that much hard to fix.  Then, I think I'll have to port it back to the MAC so I'm not working with 2 different libraries.  Unless you tell me otherwise, I will continue this work on the PC.

[RoderickGI]

Never give up! Never surrender!

I like solving problems. I learn more doing that than just using the software. Of course, sometimes I know just enough to be very dangerous. 

On the forum issues:
Good that you found the Preview buttons.

There is a "handle" in the middle button of the typing window, which looks like two additional horizontal lines. Hover over that with the mouse and you will see that the cursor change to a double-ended vertical arrow. While that shows, click and drag the bottom of the window down to make it bigger.

There is no way to just quote a portion of a reply directly. The "Quote" button (top right corner of a post) always quotes the full text. What I do is keep the original thread open on one browser tab, so that I can read it and still see attached images. Then I have another Reply tab open that I am typing in. In fact, as I have a large high-resolution screen, I often have two windows open side by side, one with the original post and one with the reply window I am typing in.

Then if I want to quote a small portion of a large post, I Ctrl+left-click on the "Quote" button in the original thread, which opens another tab with the full text of the post quoted. Then I edit that quoted text down to what I want, copy it, and paste it into the window where I am typing my reply. I have some other tricks, but I would need to make a video to show those rather than try to explain them.

Try the above ideas though. You will find them much easier than using Word to edit quotes, and a larger reply window makes a world of difference.

=================================================================

Now, on to this issue.

I should have thought that yes, you will need to also correct file paths which have special characters. When I said it was only the file name that has issues with special characters, I meant in comparison to the other tags in the file, such as the [Name], [Artist] and [Album] fields. I was just working with your sample files, so forgot to think about the paths you use.

It looks like your "Base Path" is now "D:\Music\My Music\" on the Windows 7 PC, and that your directory rule should be:
[Album Artist (auto)]\[Album]\

You may have just used [Artist] or [Album Artist] as the first part of that expression in the past, but [Album Artist (auto)] is better and prevents Albums being broken up in MC due to multiple Artists on one or more tracks. But this comes down to the accuracy of the metadata in your Library. I did notice that for the track named "El Huracán"
[Artist]  is "Alfredo De Angelis"
[Album Artist] is "El Húracan"
[Album Artist (auto)] is "El Húracan", since it follows [Album Artist] when it exists. I think that is wrong, and the track should be under Artist "Alfredo De Angelis".

If that is so, and your library is set up that way for most music, you might want to use the expression:
[Artist]\[Album]\

Whichever way you go, test with small numbers of files, and check the Preview before committing the change.


Again, taking into account the comments above for the directory structure you use for all music, you can use the RM&CF function to move the files to a new directory with a path that works. I can't test this, as I don't have your broken paths. Any path I create works fine.

The files reverting to unplayable a short time after you did the file name change may not be an issue. What I expect happened there is that MC did the file name change, marked the track as playable because it had just updated the file, and then checked it again and noted the issue with the file path, so marked it unplayable again.

Once you fix both the path and file name, with a sample on files, refresh the View and then check that the files remain playable. Also, check using the "Locate > On Disk (external)" function for a few files to confirm that the files are found correctly.

Be careful not to process all the file at once without testing first, as your Library could become a real mess if files are moved to paths they should be in.

Give the above a go, and report back.

PS: The renaming of the files using the expression above should remove the " (1)" suffix from files. It will only be a problem if a duplicate file without the suffix exists. So, this will be fixed in MC. You could run the same process on the Mac, within MC, to fix them there.

PPS: I see you have worked out the Jirón Porteño file issue. I noticed at least one issue of that type in one of your earlier screenshots.
We are working on the Windows 7 PC currently, and not the Mac. Right? What is happening in Finder doesn't matter, except for comparison of changes you have made to the original files.

PPPS: When this is fixed on the Windows 7 PC, I would Backup and Restore a Library from W7 to W10, and copy the files from W7 to W10. Alternately, you could run the same fixes on W10. From what you have said, W10 is the primary computer, the Mac is the secondary, and the W7 will be retired. Stick to the plan to fix W10 after testing/learning on W7.

PPPPS: It is a bit of a worry if after the rename files in Windows Explorer have a " (1)" suffix, but in MC they do not. However, once all other issues are fixed, only those files should remain unplayable, so we can easily add the " (1)" suffix back in only in MC using the "Update database to point to new location" mode of RM&CF, and then the Explorer and MC should match, and then you could rename them to remove the suffix in MC and on Windows. Simple, huh?

Carry on!

[tangolovers]

...

[tangolovers]

Thank you for all the Interact tips!!  What a difference the big reply window makes and using multiple screens!!  Wow!

It looks like your "Base Path" is now "D:\Music\My Music\" on the Windows 7 PC, and that your directory rule should be:
[Album Artist (auto)]\[Album]\

You may have just used [Artist] or [Album Artist] as the first part of that expression in the past, but [Album Artist (auto)] is better and prevents Albums being broken up in MC due to multiple Artists on one or more tracks. But this comes down to the accuracy of the metadata in your Library. I did notice that for the track named "El Huracán"
[Artist]  is "Alfredo De Angelis"
[Album Artist] is "El Húracan"
[Album Artist (auto)] is "El Húracan", since it follows [Album Artist] when it exists. I think that is wrong, and the track should be under Artist "Alfredo De Angelis".

If that is so, and your library is set up that way for most music, you might want to use the expression:
[Artist]\[Album]\

I verified, my Audio Folder rule is currently set to the MC default of [Artist]\[Album]\.   I think you're suggesting I change this...  in either case, I don't understand how this will fix the paths with special characters, if they do can you please clarify?

When you say "directory rule" are you referring to Options > File Locations > Audio > Folder rule?   If so, I think it's always been set to the MC defaults.  It never occurred to me to change them.  Will changing the directory/folder rule to "[Album Artist (auto)]\[Album]\"  help cleanup the folder structure in the case of multiple artists on multiple tracks?  Don't these only apply when Ripping a CD?

I'm a bit confused by your above comment regarding El Huracan.  First of all, where do you see the Album Artist (auto) and the other fields you talk about?   From what I can see in MC El Huracan IS under the Artist "Alfredo.... ".   Although I do have 10 different versions of El Huracan from different Albums, different orchestras etc., each using different naming conventions for Album, Album Artist etc... it's a mess!!  My guess it this is a long term project of manual fixing as I go.  No hurry on this. Just need library & playlists to work again, then I can clean up.

One of the reasons for this mess is because very often nothing populated as the CD's were Ripped, requiring me to manually fill in fields w/no set rules.  I don't know if artist should be the composer (which I rarely know), the orchestra playing it, or the singer?  in some cases, I just didn't like how it populated and I wanted to change it to something more meaningful in those fields.  Unfortunately, with no methodology it gradually became a mess. So, how do I resolve all of these possibilities for artist, album etc when I have to enter it myself manually?

PPS: I see you have worked out the Jirón Porteño file issue. I noticed at least one issue of that type in one of your earlier screenshots.
We are working on the Windows 7 PC currently, and not the Mac. Right? What is happening in Finder doesn't matter, except for comparison of changes you have made to the original files.

Yes, only Working with Windows7 right now.  Although I did a factory reset on the new Windows10 to reset everything in MC - probably overkill, but it's done.  Music has been recopied over there from same external HD used to copy to Windows7.  I wish I wasn't doing all the Library modifications there, because it's such a pain.  But I guess I'm already halfway committed.

PPPPS: It is a bit of a worry if after the rename files in Windows Explorer have a " (1)" suffix, but in MC they do not. However, once all other issues are fixed, only those files should remain unplayable, so we can easily add the " (1)" suffix back in only in MC using the "Update database to point to new location" mode of RM&CF, and then the Explorer and MC should match, and then you could rename them to remove the suffix in MC and on Windows. Simple, huh?

Sorry if I confused things.  The (1) suffix was already in Finder on the MAC.  So it was also there in Explorer. What happened is when I accidentally did the Rename "[Track #] - [Name]" to clean up the special characters, neither of us realized that it would remove the (1) from MC making those files unreadable.  I feel like it might be better to start with a new restore, but I'm afraid I might forget exactly how I got to this point....  what do you think?   At least then, I could more easily isolate the files that have (1) and change this in mass.  That would be a huge help!!   I suspect the last rename might have resulted in more, Perhaps it's better to start fresh with a new restore?  Although I can't recall all the steps I took to get where I am.  ?

[tangolovers]

I think I was able to undo my Rename that removed the (1) suffix from the filenames in MC.  And I was able to remove the (1) from MC & Explorer simultaneously.  Now I need to do a mass rename - preferably on everything, including the one's that no longer have a suffix (some contained special characters as well).  I didn't understand how to go about this...

In looking at the final 679 non-playing files, Every single one appears to have special characters in the file path.  There is still one file that rename did not work on because both "Name" & "Filename" have the same special character that appears like a space in rename, so rename has no effect.  I've tried everything and can't figure out how to do these in mass.  Please tell me you have the secret!!!

I also figured out that our latest Rename "[Track #] - [Name]" broke a lot of my files because I recall manually changing the "Names" to my liking w/o changing the Filename.  Another bad behavior.  Ouch!!  I've been manually fixing these Album by Album.  I'm going to Explorer to copy/paste the path of that album, then I rename the path for an entire album.  Painful, but working.   469 to go unless you come up with something easier...

BTW, Should I have Auto-Import turned back ON?