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[renorc]

I was using MC21 on a Win 7 computer for years, then finally upgraded to a new Win 10 computer.  I upgraded my license to MC26, loaded my library, and all songs play completely distorted and garbled. I'm using the Realtek audio device just as I do for Tidal, and have tried the other options but everything comes out as loud static. Nothing works, and I'm out of ideas.  I searched the forum but didn't see any similar posts.  Any help at all is much appreciated. Thanks

[fitbrit]

How are you connected to your sound device? Is it a digital output to a DAC.
If I suspect correctly, I have some experience with this, and I have reported this before. However, it was deemed to be a niche case, and could not be reproduced. I know of over two hundred systems that can have this issue, but that is a drop in the bucket compared to the total number of MC installations. Here's a fix for it that will work even if it is not officially addressed.

What we're doing here is replacing the terrible Realtek drivers with the default Microsoft ones, which do a better job in every way. The latest round of Realtek drivers actually eliminate some of the sample rates that the hardware is actually capable of playing. These drivers work fine in other software, but produce a distorted mess in MC, for some reason.
Please ignore the below instruction if your issue is different from what I have assumed it to be. Good luck!
Go to Device Manager
Then to Sound devices
There you select the Realtek driver and right click to Update Driver.
At this point select Browse my Computer for Driver software
On the next screen, choose the Let me pick... option
Then choose the High Definition Audio Device option.
There will be a screen asking you to confirm this action and it might have some scary language about signage. Choose to accept it.
You may be asked to restart, but mostly you are not.

Now all should be well with your sound device in JRiver MC.

Unfortunately, Microsoft is working hard to insist on "upgrading" people to the Realtek driver, so the issue may come back at the next Windows big update.

[renorc]

OMG! Fantastic, that worked flawlessly.  Thank you so much for that.  I want you to know that I was at the end of my patience and you saved the day! Thank you!

And yes, connected PC via optical SPDIF to external DAC.

[fitbrit]

Thank you for letting us know it worked. And your reaction really made my day. Much appreciated. Hope you enjoy MC!

[FenceFurniture]

firbrit, a question if you would please.

In another thread:

I have been fooling around trying to use an ASIO driver which really wasn't as ASIO driver.
Currently I have Realtek High Def Audio Driver 6.0.1.8186 installed as part of the fooling around, but I have a Windows Restore point immediately prior to that and could roll back to 6.0.1.7885.

However, reading your replay above you are saying get rid of Realtek and install Microsoft drivers. At the moment I don't have any sound problems as such
BUT
the maximum bit/sample I can get is 24bit 48000Hz (and I have much music that is above 48kHz).

What what you recommend? (please  be gentle....tech is scary....  )

EDIT: WHOA! Well that's the damndest thing: because I read this thread now I'm getting fuzz distortion. How did you do that?!
I get distortion using either
Realtek High definition Audio [WASAP] with exclusive access
OR
Default Audio Device (Direct Sound)

So whilst I'm waiting on Time Zone differences (Sat evening in Sydney Oz), I'm going to take a Windows Restore point and follow the advice above. Will report back.

[FenceFurniture]

Having done nothing whatsoever, I have gone from good normal sound last night to fuzz box today. Was there an MC 26 upgrade overnight?

I have installed High Definition Audio Device (as described above) and it has made no difference whatsoever to the fuzz (even at low volume).

The distortion is also present on Youtube, so it's not just MC.

[FenceFurniture]

Ok the driver is now 10.0.18362.356 from Microsoft. I installed it a second time and that time it did actually ask for a restart (first it did not, but I restarted anyway).

FUZZ!

It doesn't matter whether I select
ONYX (High Def Audio Device) [WASAPI] .....that's for my Harman Kardon Onyx Studio 2 Speaker that I use via 3.mm jack
or
Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]

Please refer attachment.

Get this: when I type now I'm getting buzzing sounds through the speaker! If a thump the desk very lightly I get fuzz!

[FenceFurniture]

Ok, I officially have no idea what has happened. I have just rolled back to a restore point that I took before I installed those pseudo ASIO drivers. I am still getting fuzz, and there is an ASIO driver to choose from (in JRiver, but not device manager)!

In any case, it doesn't matter what I select I get fuzz. I did notice that there was another restore point taken automatically the day before my manual one (so 20th Jan). I'm going to roll back to that to see what I get.

[FenceFurniture]

Restored back to 6 days ago before I'd even heard of ASIO drivers. (but a restart is automatic for this)
Played the track (and JRiver was defaulting to Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]

Fuzz.

Changed to Realtek Heigh Def Audio [WASAPI]
no fuzz!
Changed back to Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]
no fuzz!

How can that possibly be? How can it go from fuzz to no fuzz with the same driver (no restart of anything)?

So now I'll try fitbrit's solution again to see if it can work.

(a little later) So that works properly as well now.

However, I can still only select 48000Hz as the maximum sample. It's showing 620kbps per second on a 24-176 SACD album but I don't necessarily know if that means it sampling at 176kHz or not.

[JimH]

Use WASAPI.  See Audio Setup on the wiki.

[JimH]

when I type now I'm getting buzzing sounds through the speaker! If I thump the desk very lightly I get fuzz!

You've got a hardware problem somewhere.  Could be the mouse if tapping the desk makes it happen.  Wireless mouse?  Try removing it and the receiver.

Keyboard is also a possibility.

[JimH]

What we're doing here is replacing the terrible Realtek drivers with the default Microsoft ones, which do a better job in every way. The latest round of Realtek drivers actually eliminate some of the sample rates that the hardware is actually capable of playing. These drivers work fine in other software, but produce a distorted mess in MC, for some reason.

Did you try both 32 and 64 bit versions of MC?  It's possible the Realtek driver for one is broken.

[fitbrit]

FenceFurniture

Your issue sounds like a different hardware problem like Jim suggested. The issue the OP brought up is only present with MC.

[fitbrit]

Did you try both 32 and 64 bit versions of MC?  It's possible the Realtek driver for one is broken.

I did some searching again last night, and it seems that it could be somehow that the Auto bitdepth setting in Device settings in audio might be causing these issues. Manually setting them might fix the issue according to this post. I haven't had time to try it myself. However, the "new" Realtek drivers seem quite bad in other aspects, but these might too be fixed with this setting. I'll have to give it a go and report back. I've been looking for a fix for over two years, but last night I might have finally used the right mix of search terms in Google to get my answer. See thread link below.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=109994.0

[FenceFurniture]

You've got a hardware problem somewhere.  Could be the mouse if tapping the desk makes it happen.  Wireless mouse?  Try removing it and the receiver.

Keyboard is also a possibility.

It wasn't happening before the fuzzing started to mysteriously happen yesterday, and has stopped happening since I've been able to fix the fuzz. Using a Logitech wireless keyboard, and a Wacom Pen/Tablet instead of a mouse.

Anyone want to have a stab at why the system could go from perfect one day to a fuzzbox the next without changing anything? But rolling back to a restore point 5 days prior fixed it all. In fact I had been watching a movie just a couple of hours before posting about the fuzz, and there was no problem.

[FenceFurniture]

Use WASAPI.  See Audio Setup on the wiki.

Yes, I was. I tried using 2-3 different options offered in MC, and they were all suddenly fuzzing. You can see in the attachment I poated in Reply #6 that I was using WASAPI. In two other posts (this thread) I was talking about it happening with WASAPI or not.

Maybe there is some kind of clue here:

Restored back to 6 days ago before I'd even heard of ASIO drivers, and JRiver was defaulting to Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]
Fuzz.

Changed (MC) to Realtek High Def Audio [WASAPI]
no fuzz!

Changed (MC) back to Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]
no fuzz!

How can that be? Those three settings were within 60 seconds.
Default Audio (fuzzy) > Realtek (not fuzzy) > Default Audio (not fuzzy)

[FenceFurniture]

For clarity, here is a summary of the events.

1. Tuesday 21st I took a restore point before installing what were some experimental ASIO drivers (Asus driver in a Toshiba Laptop, ASIO4ALL driver)
2. The only reason for this was in an effort to increase the choices to be >48000Hz sampling (max I could show was  24bit, 48000Hz)
3. On the advice of Awesome Donkey and RoderickGI I abandoned that course. At that point I had not rolled back the restore point, but those new drivers could not be seen anywhere (oh well).

4. I had no sound problems, other than not greater than 48kHz selection.

5. Yesterday Roderick pointed me in the direction (about 14 hours ago as I post this). I had been watching a movie with no sound problems.
6. I suddenly started getting fuzz when playing MC, after reading this thread. I had changed nothing.
7. Did all the various changes suggested by fitbrit, changed back, changed again, multiple restarts. All sound sources were fuzzy.
8. Rolled back Windows to the Restore Point mentioned above (pre-ASIO) and still fuzzy, with an ASIO driver not only still present, but visible for selection in MC for the very first time! Computer was restarted automatically as part of the rollback.
9. Rolled back to a Restore Point that was taken automatically the day before my manual one (so Jan 20th), restarted.
10. As per my last post here, sound was still fuzzy BUT went from Fuzz to no fuzz simply by changing the output in MC from Default to Realtek and back again.

Attached screenshot shows current choices in MC. For the particular speaker I am using (Harman Kardon ONYX Studio 2) Direct Sound seems to be better than WASAPI.

[JimH]

I would try switching the speaker. 

[FenceFurniture]

I would try switching the speaker.

Do you mean within MC I should switch the output, to see if I can select >48kHz?

[JimH]

You need to identify what is causing the sound problem.  Test methodically.  One test is to swap the speaker for another. 

I suggested a possible problem with the mouse or keyboard above.  Did you test that idea?  If you can make it happen by tapping on the table, remove the mouse and keyboard and try tapping again.

I think you've got a hardware problem.

[FenceFurniture]

Yes, I am currently testing and noting, will report back.

I am convinced that there is no hardware problem causing fuzz because nothing at all is fuzzing now (including thumping the desk) after rolling back to Restore Point from Monday.

It wasn't happening before the fuzzing started to mysteriously happen yesterday, and has stopped happening since I've been able to fix the fuzz. Using a Logitech wireless keyboard, and a Wacom Pen/Tablet instead of a mouse.

Will report back on the tests in a few minutes.

[FenceFurniture]

Ok, I am trying to play a 24-176kHz album, and here is what I have tried:
1. In MC, selecting ONYX (High Def Aud Dev) [WASAPI] (exclusive access) and I get the error msg shown in the attachment ("can't play above 48kHz")

2. In MC, selecting ONYX (High Def Aud Dev) [Direct Sound] and it will play. However, if I right click on the Speaker icon in the tray>Open Sound Settings>Device Properties>Additional Device Properties>Advanced it was showing that 16bit 48000Hz was selected. I changed it to 24/48kHz, and it will still play
BUT now when I check the output device in MC it says "Default Audio Device [Direct Sound]" so it has changed it from ONYX.

3. In MC, Reverting back to ONYX (High Def Aud Dev) [WASAPI], still getting error msg (as expected). Open Sound Settings and it is 24/48kHz (also as expected)

4. In MC, selecting LAPTOP (High Def Aud Dev) [WASAPI] (so similar to 1. but now using Laptop speakers instead of Onyx). Same error msg as attachment. When I click the speaker icon (left click) it is still showing ONYX. If I change that to LAPTOP (via the speaker icon) I still get the error msg in MC.

5. In MC, selecting LAPTOP [Direct Sound} plays music. Has defaulted to 16/48 so changed to 24/48 (in Sound Settings). Still plays.

So the upshot of all that is that WASAPI gives me the 24/48 error msg with either the Laptop speakers or the Onyx, and both of those speakers will play using [Direct Sound] but only at 24/48.

[FenceFurniture]

Just a little bit more info:
I am now back to the situation where MC is playing through the Onyx (as selected in MC [Direct Sound]) and the rest of the computer plays its sound through the laptop speakers - as long as I select them through left clicking on the speaker icon in the tray.

This is actually my preferred arrangement, and I haven't had it for quite some months. Now I can't say whether or not I could have selected it this way in the interim because I haven't selected any speakers from the speaker icon, but the question is: is it normal to be able to split the sound systems this way - MC playing through one, and everything else playing through another? I note that the Exclusive Use option is not available for [Direct Sound].

[RoderickGI]

but the question is: is it normal to be able to split the sound systems this way - MC playing through one, and everything else playing through another? I note that the Exclusive Use option is not available for [Direct Sound].

Completely normal.

I don't have time to explain it all right now, but you are confusing lots of things about audio on a Windows PC;

Windows Default Audio Device VS MC Output audio device - two completely different things.
WASAPI (or ASIO) Exclusive mode where Windows never touches the audio VS Direct Sound audio where the Windows Sound Mixer always touches and often changes the audio

Direct Sound operates only in Shared Mode, so that audio can be mixed from multiple audio sources on the PC (i.e. MC and System Sounds) at the same time, and audio will play in a format that the Windows driver selected can play. The setting found by right-clicking on the Speaker icon in the tray>Open Sound Settings>Device Properties>Additional Device Properties>Advanced only applies to Shared Mode. The dialogue box even says that. It does not apply to Exclusive Mode. It does show what Windows believes the audio device/driver is capable of playing.

Do some Googling regarding "Direct Sound" and "Exclusive Mode".

EDIT: Added an image for clarity.

[FenceFurniture]

Thanks Roderick. Yes, I'm happy with the way it is - just wanted to make sure it's normal.

The only outstanding thing is why I can't get better than 24/48kHz in the sound settings, and I would like to be able to understand what the hell went on last night - it was just too bizarre.

[fitbrit]

Thanks Roderick. Yes, I'm happy with the way it is - just wanted to make sure it's normal.

The only outstanding thing is why I can't get better than 24/48kHz in the sound settings, and I would like to be able to understand what the hell went on last night - it was just too bizarre.

At this point, can you confirm whether you are using the Realtek or Microsoft drivers for the audio device?

[FenceFurniture]

High Def Audio Device version 10.0.18362.356

[fitbrit]

High Def Audio Device version 10.0.18362.356

Did you check the supported formats tab of the device properties? There may be some sample rates that are not checked.

[FenceFurniture]

I'm not sure where you mean to check for that, but I have looked everywhere I know:
MC>Audio>Audio Device
Speaker Icon>SOund Setting> etc
Device Manager

The only place I see choices is in Sound Settings where I can choose 16/44, 16/48, 24/44, 24/48.

I can't see a Supported Formats tab in the device properties - will take a screenshot and add it here.

Screenshot added.

[fitbrit]

I mean in the device manager control panel

[FenceFurniture]

This is all the tabs there are (attach). Thanks very much for your assistance, btw.

[fitbrit]

My apologies. I meant the sound control panel. Right click on the sound device and select properties. Or select the device and click on Properties there

[FenceFurniture]

You probably also need to know that I am the undisputed champion of computer weird stuff. This would be far from the first time that experts have ended up saying "Beats me". 

[FenceFurniture]

No worries, check the screenshot in my reply #28.

[fitbrit]

Ah, I see that the Supported Formats tab is absent.

Beats me.

[FenceFurniture]

So I should have a Supported Formats tab? Do I have the correct driver version 10.0.18362.356 ?

[RoderickGI]

Ah, I see that the Supported Formats tab is absent.

That is because his PC is connected to his Onyx speaker via a 3.5 mm jack, which is an analogue output. The "Supported Formats" tab only appears for digital outputs, as far as I know.

However, as per my image in Reply #23, if you open the Advanced tab and show the drop-down list, it should show what formats are supported, and therefore available to Direct Sound in Shared Mode, or to WASAPI in Exclusive Mode.

FurnitureFence, in Replay #28 where you showed the properties for the Onyx Speaker, Windows thinks you have Onyx headphones connected, and I think you have said previously that you also have Onyx Headphones. Stuff like that just adds to the confusion. Windows 10 doesn't make it any easier, with the way Audio has been rearranged in settings.  Can I assume that only the Onyx speaker is connected and that properties image refers to the Onyx Speaker? No headphones involved?

Fortunately, in Reply #28 you show MC is actually set to use the Onyx (Speaker/Headphone) as the target audio hardware, using the "High Definition Audio Device" driver. So your setup is just like my Workstation that targets "Speakers" as the audio hardware, using the "Realtek High Definition Audio" driver. Can you post an image showing the contents of the Advanced tab drop-down list, please? For both the "ONYX (High Definition Audio Device)" and the "LAPTOP (High Definition Audio Device)".


BTW, I looked up your "Harman Kardon ONYX Studio 2" speaker again, and found a FAQ article that said the Bluetooth Audio always takes precedence over the AUX Input (3.5mm jack). So if the Onyx is receiving any signal over BT, it will be set to play the digital signal, and use a maximum Sample Rate of 48 KHz. This shouldn't matter for the analogue input via the AUX Input 3.5mm jack, but maybe it does. My cheap analogue PC speakers can play 24 bit / 192 KHz audio, so the Onyx should also be able to play that. But who knows what the internal circuitry of the Onyx is doing? Can Bluetooth be switched off on the Onyx Speaker?


Also BTW, you should be using the "ONYX (High Definition Audio Device) [WASAPI]" audio device in MC. If the Onyx truly doesn't support Sample Rate above 48 KHz, then the MC Output Format should be restricted to 48 KHz, as per the attached image, and then all formats will play. Of course, you will only get 48 KHz audio, and your 24-176 SACD's will be downmixed to 48 KHz... No, your SACD's have never played at 176 KHz, because you were using Direct Sound, which down-mixed them to 48 KHz without you knowing it.

If you want to see what MC is actually playing, use the Audio Path feature in MC. But that will only show what MC is outputting. If you use Direct Sound, Windows will down-mix your audio so that it can be played.

[fitbrit]

That is because his PC is connected to his Onyx speaker via a 3.5 mm jack, which is an analogue output. The "Supported Formats" tab only appears for digital outputs, as far as I know.

Yes, you're right. Pretty tired and didn't read carefully. Bowing out now.

[FenceFurniture]

The only place I see choices is in Sound Settings where I can choose 16/44, 16/48, 24/44, 24/48.

I'll post some screenshots, but for both the LAPTOP and the ONYX I can only get those four choices shown above.

Bluetooth is not active from the computer, and the BT icon on the speaker is not illuminated.

The headphones I have are Koss BT40i, but I have used them with the computer for many months.

[FenceFurniture]

Also BTW, you should be using the "ONYX (High Definition Audio Device) [WASAPI]" audio device in MC. If the Onyx truly doesn't support Sample Rate above 48 KHz, then the MC Output Format should be restricted to 48 KHz, as per the attached image, and then all formats will play. Of course, you will only get 48 KHz audio, and your 24-176 SACD's will be downmixed to 48 KHz...

Screenshot attached.

I know that the Onyx will play 24/176 because it does when I plug the DAP into it.

[RoderickGI]

Yes, you're right. Pretty tired and didn't read carefully. Bowing out now.

You're forgiven. But don't bow out completely. Your insights are always welcome, as you fill in lots of gaps I know nothing about.

[RoderickGI]

Screenshot attached.

Well, there is your answer FF. Windows thinks the Onyx will only play those four formats. If that's what Windows thinks, that is what MC thinks. Of course, it is highly unusual that Laptop speakers couldn't play higher Sample Rate, so something is definitely strange. But what? I can't find much real information about audio on your laptop, so I can't answer that question.

I know that the Onyx will play 24/176 because it does when I plug the DAP into it.

Maybe the DAP is also down-mixing to 48 KHz? Nah, probably not.

Something is screwy in Windows. However, I am loath to suggest any deeper surgery as it may break your PC audio altogether. Maybe someone else knows how to tweak Windows without risk?

[FenceFurniture]

Thanks Roderick, and fitbrit.

Yes, I have been saying for some time now that I can only select up to 48kHz - since last Tuesday in fact (refer post #19):
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122078.msg857647.html#msg857647

I guess that takes it back to Tuesday where the mate of mine was saying he wondered whether the Laptop soundcard chipset was actually capable of playing >48kHz. (which is why we started fooling around with the ASIO drivers to try and find out). It seems to me that it may be the case that I have  a sound card that only does up to 48k, but how to find that out? He was suggesting looking at the manual, but I don't have one (paper or pixels).

Is there any other way of finding out what the chipset can do?

[FenceFurniture]

I found a manual of sorts for the Laptop. I did a search for "bit" and there was nothing associated with 16 or 24. I did a search for "Hz" and there was nothing associated with any sample rates. There was no mention of "chip" except one for graphics.

Maybe the DAP is also down-mixing to 48 KHz? Nah, probably not.

Nah.  I just played something and is said 24bit, 192kHz, nnnn kbps

[fitbrit]

You're forgiven. But don't bow out completely. Your insights are always welcome, as you fill in lots of gaps I know nothing about.

Thanks. I wasn't taking my ball and going home - just going to bed as it was past 2 am.

[FenceFurniture]

I am a member of a Woodworking forum and there are numerous IT people on there, so I thought I'd ask how I might be able to determine what the soundcard is. They think it is "likely to be either AC97 or HD Audio". Here is a screen shot from when I had the first round of sound problems back in September 2019, when Roderick very kindly sorted them out for me. Nearly halfway down you can see "Device HDAUDIO\FUNC etc" so does that mean it is an HDAUDIO chipset?

[RoderickGI]

My 10 year old Gigabyte motherboard with Realtek audio supports 24/192 audio, so your laptop should. It is running the Microsoft 10.0.18362.1 driver. You have a later version. It should give you at least the same capabilities... unless the hardware isn't capable.

HDAudio is too generic to be useful. You need to find out the actual Realtek chip.

Download AIDA64 from here: https://www.aida64.com/downloads/latesta64xe

You will be running a trial version, but it should show what you need to know. Install it and take a look at the page shown in the attached image.

You are looking for the chipset number, which will be something like ALCxxxx. Mine is an ALC889.

Then we can look up the capabilities of that chip. The links in AIDA64 may even take you to the information you need... or maybe not. The info should be available on the web somewhere though.

[FenceFurniture]

Thanks Roderick, you're a champion! I'll do that, but in the interim, according to this site:
https://icecat.biz/en-in/p/toshiba/pspvtu-00g009/satellite+radius-notebooks-15+p50w-cst3nx2-30793650.html

it is capable of DTS sound (AFAIK that means 96kHz):
A COMMANDING SOUND SYSTEM.
The Satellite Radius™ 15 laptop delivers best-in-class audio. Built-in Harman Kardon® stereo speakers and DTS Sound


pspvtu-00g009 is the part number (you asked me for that in t'other thread)

[FenceFurniture]

There is also a pre-packaged DTS app on board.

[FenceFurniture]

ALC233

There are some interesting looking links down the bottom of the screenshot.