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[Knitman]

I have notice when changing AIFF to FLAC the bitrate is dropping from 1411 to several hundred less. It differs per track.  It drops to under 1000, like to 600+ to 900+ but never near 1000.

WHY? I need to say that whilst I am good at getting things to work, usually, I am NOT a computer techy. In other words if you reply in tech speak I won't understand.

If it makes no difference why? It just seems strange to me. I have on ly converted AIFF files I have when recording CD's so if I eff it up I can just record the CD again in AIFF.

I have bought downloads 192,000 in AIFF. I have not converted any of those.

My '19 MB Pro is part of a high end hi fi system. I store all of my music on it. I have a 1TB disc. Music only. I am almost convinced that this FLAC is truly lossless but the drop in bitrate by over 500 for each file makes me wonder, but I like I said I have n o idea what it means.

I'd appreciate help with this.

Knitman

[JimH]

AIFF is uncompressed, similar to a WAV file.

FLAC is compressed.

Both are lossless.

In the Apple world, ALAC is compressed and lossless, similar to FLAC.

For this kind of subject, Wikipedia would be a good source of information.

[Hendrik]

AIFF is uncompressed, hence it has a fixed data rate, 1411 would be for 44.1kHz 16-bit Stereo, ie. CD quality.

FLAC on the other hand is a lossless compression for audio. Its entire purpose is to make files smaller, and as such the Bitrate Drops. Since it's a lossless compression, it cannot achieve a constant compression factor, which means every file will have a different Bitrate depending on the complexity of the audio itself.

Do know that both FLAC and AIFF contain 100% the same audio and will sound the same. FLAC is like a .zip file for audio, it's just smaller but doesn't modify the contents.

[Paul S.A. Renaud]

I am still puzzled. I normally use FLAC for ripped CD's but uncompressed (via Dbpoweramp) and the bitrate is 1411. Please explain why a compressed FLAC would lead to a lower bit rate and still be lossless.

[JimH]

It's like a zipped file.  You can unzip it and get the identical information as is in the original file.

There is no reason to do FLAC uncompressed.  FLAC compressed is lossless.

Try an Internet search to read about FLAC.  Be wary of trusting "enthusiast" sites.

[Knitman]

Thank you for all of the answers.

I understood them. At least I think so.

The fact that the bit rate drops makes no difference. I am still going to hear what was on the original AIFF file.

I knew before hand that FLAC was like a ZIP and altho it was small when it played it sort of opened up.

I am going to continue to change my vast music collection from AIFF to FLAC, if I have enough time left! I will also buy the high rfes files in FLAC next time.

I used to use .wav files until Amarra folks told me that AIFF was what cds were made using.

Thanks for answering me as if I were an  idiot.

[Knitman]

Sugar!!! I meant thank you for NOT answering me as if I were an idiot.

BTW I am asking the converter to change to 24kHz.

My DAC is the Audiolab 8300CDQ. It automatically plays back at 32kHz(CD).

I assume I can use this Music Centre 26 to import my CDs? I haven't looked!

I will say I paid a fortune years ago for a program which is now n ot even going to be updated fro Catalina.

I have used a number of music programs and this is by far the best.

I love what it does. I never thought I'd listen to  music in surround sound but this program in conjunction with the DAC and the Yamaha RX A3080,(also the best receiver I have heard), makes it sound almost live. The singer in front of me and the music swirling around me. I sit in the sweet spot. The speakers are plumbed in to the walls.

Funny, as a teen my dream was a Technics outfit with a reel to reel!

[Knitman]

I found out that telling the converter to make the files 24kHz wa making the files larger than the original AIFF which defeats the object.

One thing I discovered. The convert thing doesn't like you to do, don't know, but it freezes the whole thing. I then have to close program and start over but then it works.

Just to be certain I understood, m4a files, ALAC, are lossless just like FLAC?

I ask because May 31st '14 I suffered a sev ere head trauma and it resulted in me becoming someone else.(simplest way to describe it). Then on September 7th 2019 I suffered yet another fall, my 6th requiring hospitalization in ICU or not.
This last one knocked my head back to myself! BUT I have lost 5 years of memory. What the hell has that got to do with this? You'll see.

As I am going thru my music to change them to FLAC I find that many are recorded in MP3(U WOT?!!!) and .m4a and .wav.

I assume I should keep the m4a and leave them as they are? An re-record the mp3 conversions. I'm still reeling from the fact I converted to MP3!

The settings I have are: convert toi 16 flac, add 4k padding(?) and add the next option which I can't recall.

This gives me smaller than AIFF files. My music system will upgrade the files when played. I just need to use this to reduce the size of my collection on this disk.

[Paul S.A. Renaud]

It's like a zipped file.  You can unzip it and get the identical information as is in the original file.

There is no reason to do FLAC uncompressed.  FLAC compressed is lossless.

Try an Internet search to read about FLAC.  Be wary of trusting "enthusiast" sites.

But still, a compressed FLAC file gives bps lower than 1411 or much lower. Naively said, the lower the bps the less the information rendered??

[Awesome Donkey]

Some little tidbits to add to the discussion...

1) M4A is a container, and multiple audio compressions use it, mainly Apple Lossless (aka ALAC which is lossless) or AAC (which is lossy).

2) Honestly, I'd just ignore bitrates (or what you're calling bps, Paul) if I were you guys. Not only are bitrates not really an indication of quality or if a file is lossless (or not), because of the compression used bitrates of FLAC files will almost always have lower bitrate numbers than uncompressed files. In addition, there are types of music (e.g. solo piano pieces) that compress pretty darn well, and will have lower bitrates than you'd think they should have (which might make you question quality) but it's entirely normal. Also what makes bitrates irrelevant (IMO) is when you're playing compressed files they're automatically uncompressed to PCM and that's what you're hearing when playing them back. You won't notice a difference or hear any differences if a compressed FLAC file has a lower bitrate number versus a uncompressed AIFF file. If you're thinking a lower bitrate means lower quality, you're thinking of MP3s (and lossy formats in general) which is certainly true for them, not for FLAC (or any other type of lossless) files.

3) Compressed FLAC and AIFF files are both lossless. If you convert 1 compressed FLAC file to uncompressed AIFF, the data between both are 1:1. When you play both back, the device decompresses the compressed FLAC file when playing it back, so it's still 1:1 with the original source (of course, if it's ripped correctly if it's the case of CDs).

I found out that telling the converter to make the files 24kHz wa making the files larger than the original AIFF which defeats the object.

Do you mean 24-bit? If so, that's bit-depth, which a completely different thing. If you're converting 16-bit files to 24-bit or 24-bit files to 16-bit, you're actually dithering files which isn't a lossless conversion (nor is resampling). I'd avoid doing that if the original files (e.g. files ripped from a CD) aren't 24-bit to begin with. Not only are you doing a lossy conversion when dithering files from a ripped CD to 24-bit, you're also wasting hard drive space.

Just to be certain I understood, m4a files, ALAC, are lossless just like FLAC?

Look what I said above, M4A is a container which multiple compressions can use. M4A files can be either Apple Lossless (which is lossless) or AAC (which is lossy).

[JimH]

But still, a compressed FLAC file gives bps lower than 1411 or much lower. Naively said, the lower the bps the less the information rendered??

No.

Please try a Google search.  Or read Wikipedia about FLAC and other lossless formats.

[Awesome Donkey]

But still, a compressed FLAC file gives bps lower than 1411 or much lower. Naively said, the lower the bps the less the information rendered??

You're thinking of MP3s and other lossy formats where lower bitrate means lower quality. That doesn't apply to FLAC or other lossless formats.

[Knitman]

REPLY TO AWESOME DONKEY (I am dying to ask a question about the moniker but fear it will considered rude and I'll be banned!)

When MC shows me a file  is *.m4a how will I know if it's AAC or ALAC?

Also, I am going back to MC25 because none of of setting files come up in MC 26. It took days to sort those settings to my taste. Like I said in an earlier post I am brain damaged. It is just too much work for me to do again plus there is the problem of remembering. I haven't yet checked but I hope all my settings files are still there on MC25.

I took a break and went back to MC25 where all my settings.

I am not sure I have a need to use MC 26.

One problem I have come across is that despite there being album covers available <MC any way failed to find them. I have found plenty singly. Using the get all option just doesn't get them all.

For me though the most important thing is the sound and I love this program. Like I said, I have used several others, including one that cost me 000's and all of them are crap by comparison.  Before I really got into MC I had given up with the company that made the very expensive program because they gave up supporting it for Catalina. They then offered a much cheaper version which worked on any platform but it was to be free for idiots like me who supported them with lots of dosh!

[Awesome Donkey]

One of the ways, depending on how long the track is, is you can tell the difference between AAC and ALAC by its file size. ALAC files are usually always several times larger than their AAC counterparts, again, depending on file size.

Regarding settings not being transferred over from MC25 to MC26, just do a library backup in MC25 and restore that library backup in MC26. That should restore your settings.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Backup

[bob]

One of the ways, depending on how long the track is, is you can tell the difference between AAC and ALAC by its file size. ALAC files are usually always several times larger than their AAC counterparts, again, depending on file size.

Regarding settings not being transferred over from MC25 to MC26, just do a library backup in MC25 and restore that library backup in MC26. That should restore your settings.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library_Backup

Another way to tell is to show the compression field in MC (on a file list view where the headers are like bitrate, album, etc, right-click and click on the compressions field).
If it's lossless you'll see ALAC otherwise MP4 AAC.

[blgentry]

But still, a compressed FLAC file gives bps lower than 1411 or much lower. Naively said, the lower the bps the less the information rendered??

This goes to information theory.  Shannon (an early information theory scientist/engineer) says that all signals have a real "information rate".  If you type "aaaaaaaaaaaaa" over and over again, you can fill a file with it.  But it does not convey very much information.  Using zip or other compression on this file makes it very very small.  But when you unzip it, all the "aaaa" are there.  Zipping or losslessly compressing files reveals their true information rate!  Which is really pretty cool.

A WAV file filled with silence shows as 1411 kbps.  But a file full of silence (or nearly silence) does not carry much real information does it?  When you convert this to FLAC, it's bit rate becomes very small.  Because there's not much real information there. 

More complex musical signals have a higher information rate.  So, as FLACs those songs will show a higher bit rate.  Less complex signals will have a lower bit rate.  It's really all about how densely packed the sound is.

As others have said, this bit rate (for FLACs) is not an indication of quality.  Rather, it is an indication of sonic complexity, or true information rate.

Thanks,
Brian.

[Knitman]

Okay I am not sure I am replying to the correct mod or even the correct place.

Firstly, thank you kindly for info regarding my settings on 25 and getting them onto 26. Have done this and it was very easy and quick. Like less than a minute. It even changed my background to the dark one I chose.

As regards ripping I am going to allow MUSIC to do it and I will choose ALAC. I will use MC audio convert AIFF to ALAC or FLAC and I will base that purely on file size.

Thank you kindly for all the help. I also very much appreciate the acknowledgement of my neuro divergence without making it a big deal.

[Knitman]

I meant of course converting the hundreds of albums already on my MBPro as AIFF files. Saves me re-recording them.

ALL the unrecorded cd's will be recorded in ALAC by MUSIC  because it's easier and also provides much fuller file info. As explained in a previous post on this subject.

Thanks again.