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Author Topic: JRemote track misordering-still a problem  (Read 1763 times)

eruse

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JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« on: March 21, 2020, 10:59:30 am »

Hi-

I'm using JRemote 3.30 for iOS with MC26.  For about 5-10% of my CDs the tracks are misordered.  For example, instead of being listed beginning on track 1 and increasing until the last track, the tracks are listed (in 1 example from my library)  beginning with track 2 followed by 1, 4, 3, 5, 7, 8, 6 and 9.  I reported this problem back in November with MC25 and JRemote 3.29 but still have not received a fix.

Thanks.
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wer

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2020, 02:14:02 pm »

Screenshots?

You could show us the view configuration, the JRemote screen, then the files in question shown in a standard view. 

Sounds like it could be a metadata/view problem.  I don't have that issue.

You might look at Options->Media Network->Advanced->Customize views for JRemote,Gizmo...

Check the sorting options configured there for the view you are using, to ensure the tracks are being sorted in track order.  Then verify the metadata in the specific files you say are being sorted incorrectly.
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AndrewFG

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2020, 03:44:28 pm »

Here are two examples..
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eruse

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 04:31:16 pm »

Here is a picture of my JRemote screen showing the track misordering for an Allman Brothers CD.  I'm not clear about what you mean by the "view configuration" and the "standard view" with respect to JRemote. There is no problem with MC26 itself.  All the tracks are ordered properly in MC26.  The problem is with JRemote.  I verified the metadata using dbpoweramp.  All tracks are numbered properly.
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wer

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2020, 05:47:39 pm »

What I mean by "view configuration" is what I said before:

"You might look at Options->Media Network->Advanced->Customize views for JRemote,Gizmo..."

The views, as they are configured in that dialog, tell JRemote what to display and how to sort.  Go in there and take a look.

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eruse

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 11:09:47 am »

Here's a screenshot of the MC26 settings for "Options->Media Network->Advanced->Customize views for JRemote,Gizmo... ."  I never changed these settings in MC26 so it doesn't explain to me why most of the track ordering in JRemote is fine.  I assume that any changes I would make in MC26 to customize the JRemote view would be global, i.e., the changes should impact all files and not just some.
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eruse

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2020, 11:22:01 am »

Apologies, that last post was probably not helpful.  Here is a screenshot showing the Artist display settings for JRemote as currently configured.
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wer

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2020, 01:25:09 pm »

The salient information is one step away from your last screenshot. Click on Album in that right-hand pane and then click the Edit button.  Screenshot the dialog box that then appears.  It will show how sorting is configured at the Album level of the view.

Also please show what it says in the dialog when you click the "Set Rules for File Display" button right there.

Then we need a screenshot of the tracks from one of your regular views on the PC, so we can see the columns of the songs that are getting mis-sorted.  Columns we need to see include: Album Artist (auto), Album, Disc #, Track #
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syndromeofadown

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2020, 01:43:26 pm »

Sorry if this is irrelevant to your problem, but I have had issue with sorting in remote views lately.
My old views worked but my new views only sorted alphabetically. The solution was to make a category view in standard view of MC. Make sure sorting is the way you like. Then copy that view to your remote views by choosing 'Add' then 'Library item from standard view'. It worked for me, though I am using JRemote for android.
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eruse

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2020, 06:03:46 pm »

OK.  Here are the screenshots requested.
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wer

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2020, 06:34:59 pm »

Interesting.  You said you never changed these settings in MC26.  Perhaps you changed them in some prior version, before an upgrade?  Because what I'm seeing is not the default configuration.

You are sorting by a sort method named "Artist Sort".  This is a custom sort you have created, not a default.

In that "Edit Search" dialog you get from clicking "Set rules for file display" change the "Sort by" drop down to "No modification".  This will cause MC to sort using it's default method.

If that doesn't work, you can force a sort by track number by changing the Modify results to "Sort by       Track # (a-z)" but try the above first.

Now when you change this, you'll probably have to exit MC and restart to ensure the newly modified view is being presented.  If you are running the MC server service separately, just reboot your PC, if you don't know how to restart the server service.

If you want to see how that existing "Artist Sort" preset is configured, look at this page (towards the bottom), and it will tell you how sort presets are created.  By loading a preset, you can then look at it in "Custom" (as described on that page) to see the sorting method.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Customize_List_and/or_Thumbnail_View

Here's another page that talks about it:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=117467.0


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eruse

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2020, 05:59:30 am »

Thanks-
Changing to "No Modification" seems to have solved the problem.  Yes, back in October 2019 when I began using MC25 I customized my library sorting by creating the Artist Sort tag.  To me, it was far easier to do that to sort my library the way I wanted than it was to try to learn MC's expression language.  You can see that discussion here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,122622.msg848940.html#msg848940

At that time I was not aware that JRemote's display could be configured within MC and the track misordering was also a problem at that time.  See my posts here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,123027.msg851976.html#msg851976

So my change to library artist sorting using the Artist Sort tag somehow must have been transferred into the JRemote settings for MC25 and retained when I updated to MC26.

I am still confused as to why changing the way MC sorts artists would have any impact on how tracks are sorted for a given album/CD for that artist.  These should be completely independent.  Interestingly, I also posted a problem with the Artist Sort tag being ignored/stripped from files I have imported since updating to MC26.  The Artist Sort tag was retained when I imported files in MC25 after implementing the tag and changing the artist sorting using that tag.
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wer

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2020, 01:48:07 pm »

I am still confused as to why changing the way MC sorts artists would have any impact on how tracks are sorted for a given album/CD for that artist.  These should be completely independent. 

I see I helped you with a related issue before.  It doesn't seem you internalized the information given you then. 

The way MC sorts Artists is completely independent from the way it sorts tracks.  You're confused because you do not understand the way MC displays and sorts information, nor do you understand what you actually did in creating and using your "Artist Sort".

I'll try to explain... Look at the screenshot in your post timed 11:22:01. 


On the left, Items to Show: each one is a "View", a screen, a choice you can select of items to display; the actual word listed (like "Artist" or "Album" or "Highly Rated") is meaningless to MC, it's just a label for your use, like Blue or Pretty, and what is displayed when you select it could be anything.

On the right, Show Categories in This Order:  This is a real list, of real MC database fields or expressions or other such constructs.  The items on this list constitute a set of hierarchical levels that you drill into when you select the View listed on the left.  So in your screenshot, when you select the view that just happens to be labeled "Artist",  you will FIRST be presented with a selection of artists, pulled from the [Album Artist (auto)] field.  When you select one of those (by pressing enter, or double-clicking, or tapping, etc) you will DRILL DOWN to the next level.

At the next level, you will be presented a list of ALBUMS, each with the [Album Artist (auto)] you just selected.

You could have an arbitrary number of levels, allowing you to drill down and down and down.  But you only have 2 levels here.  We'll come to what happens when you drill through the last level in a moment.

First a word about sorting.  These categories/levels are displayed one after another according to the order shown in that dialog box.  They are each sorted according to the method described in your first screenshot of the post from 06:03:46. 

Each category/level can have its own sorting method, show at the bottom of this screen.  You can thus have [Album Artist (auto)] (the list of artists) sorted Alphabetically, and [Album] (the list of albums) sorted chronologically.  This has NOTHING to do with how tracks are sorted.

Now back to drilling down through levels...

When you drill down into the last level ([Album] in your example) by selecting something at that level, then you will be presented with a list of FILES.  Tracks, if you're looking at music.  You cannot drill down any further than the file/track level.  When you finally get to the file level, the results can be modified according to the rules set by clicking the "Set Rules for File Display" button.  Look at the second screenshot of your post timed 06:03:46.


In the top section of that Edit Search dialog, you are applying filtering rules for what files are and are not displayed.  Generally, they will be selected from a list that matches the criteria you've already selected by drilling down through the categories.  But you can further modify it here, perhaps by excluding any files with a rating of 1 star.  You chose to include only files that do not have an empty [Album Artist] field.

In the bottom section, you can set the sort order for the files.  Here their own sort order is defined, totally independent of the sort orders you saw for the categories above.  The sorting order does not affect what files are listed (that is done above) it only affects the order in which they are listed.

You could sort by track number.  You could sort by [Name] of the track.  You could sort by [Duration].  You chose to sort by Artist Sort.

If the bottom section is configured as "No Modification" then MC presents things in the order it thinks most appropriate, which is content-sensitive decision.  For Music, it would sort files in this order:
  Album Artist (auto)
  Album
  Disc #
  Track #

As you can see, you can sort by multiple criteria.  In this method, tracks 1-10 of disc 1 would all appear before tracks 1-10 of disc 2.  (So you would see a song with a track # of 5 earlier in your list than a song with a track # of 1, because it had a lower Disc #). 

Remember, MC is computer software.  And computers are literal things; they don't do what you intend, they do what you say.  You can tell them to do something clever, or you can tell them to do something stupid, and they'll do exactly what you tell them to do.  You perhaps thought you were telling MC to sort your list of artists and albums by "Artist Sort" but you actually told MC to sort your tracks by "Artist Sort" and it did, and you didn't like the results.  So with the change I gave you, you told it to use a different sorting method for tracks (the default).  That you liked.  It's a simple as that.

MC is essentially a database.  Media is displayed for you as a result of a search of that database, and that search can be very simple or very complicated, and its results can be modified and formatted in a myriad of ways.  When you stray from the defaults, it's incumbent on you to know what you're doing.  :)

Admittedly, the JRiver interface is not overly clear about all this.  Dialog boxes could be better structured and better labeled.  It has a steep learning curve, and it's hard for most people to understand this stuff just from looking at the interface; it is not at all self-explanatory.  But you can make it do almost anything.

I suggest you read the following threads, to better understand how the software works for future use:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68960.0   (Study this carefully; the concepts are very applicable)
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103854.0  (Customizing Theater View uses the same interface as for JRemote)

I hope this has made more clear what's going on.




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eruse

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Re: JRemote track misordering-still a problem
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2020, 06:58:11 am »

Thanks for the explanation, it was very helpful.  I'll have to play with the settings to see how much I think I understand things now. 

"Admittedly, the JRiver interface is not overly clear about all this.  Dialog boxes could be better structured and better labeled.  It has a steep learning curve, and it's hard for most people to understand this stuff just from looking at the interface; it is not at all self-explanatory."

Agree.  I hope that some effort is used to improve the situation.  Perhaps some YouTube tutorials on common topics would be useful.

Regarding the Artist Sort field I use for sorting artists, perhaps you can explain why MC26 seems to remove that tag from the files I'm importing.  I started a thread in MC26 for Mac topic with that question.

Thanks again for the help.
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