Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hitters]

Here goes another question for the Forum.

90% of my files are PCM based, either in CD resolution or in high res up to 176,4khz. But I also have got many DSD files (64&128) that I would love playing in its native format. I have been able to do this in ROON, Audirvana and Audiogate. For some strange reason, when I turn the DSD option in BITSTREAMING, music disappears and instead I get only a hiss that sounds like distorted digital signals.
I have read that JRiver is able to play DSD files and DoP if the DAC supports this option. Well, I understand that my PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC supports this system, as it plays DSD files via Audirvana and Audiogate.
Does any scientific-oriented audiophile in this forum knows what might be wrong with my settings?

Thanks a whole lot in advance. Greetings from Buenos Aires.

[RoderickGI]

The formats your PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC supports depends on the connection type you are using, based on these specs: https://www.psaudio.com/stellar-gain-cell/

I2S - DSD, but it doesn't say if it is Native format, or DoP
USB - DSD64 (DoP) DSD128 (DoP)

When you Bitstream you are trying to play Native DSD, so you would have to be using an I2S connection.

If you are using a USB connection, then turn off Bitstreaming and set the Output Encoding in Output format in MC's DSP Studio to one of the DSD in DoP formats.

Whether the DAC needs to be told it is receiving DSD in DoP or not, I don't know. But if what you are hearing is hissing or white noise, and you are using a USB connection, then the DAC is receiving Native DSD but trying to play PCM, or is it DSD in DoP? Hmmm, I can't remember which was around it is. I don't use DSD in any form.

Search the forum for "White Noise DSD" and/or "Hissing DSD", particularly posts by DTC.

Of course, reading the Wiki is always a good idea: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

[Hitters]

Thank you! I tried DSD over DoP but the white noise was still there. I will study the wiki as you said tomorrow to see if I can solve this.

Thanks again! Greetings from Buenos Aires

[Awesome Donkey]

If you're using Mac, only DoP is supported as far as I know (since I don't think native DSD is supported there).

Also, you may need to open the Audio MIDI Setup app on macOS and set you DAC's bit-depth/sample rate to the highest available to get DSD working as it's required by some DACs.

[blgentry]

If you are using a USB connection, then turn off Bitstreaming and set the Output Encoding in Output format in MC's DSP Studio to one of the DSD in DoP formats.

No, this is incorrect.  Output Format, in the DSP Studio, should almost never be used.  Turning this on converts everything to DSD.  Worse, DSD to processed as PCM, and then re-encoded back into DSD.  Don't use this option.

DSD is one of the most confusing parts of MC.  On Mac it usually "just works".  Awesome Donkey's suggestion below about the Mac's Audi MIDI utility is probably the answer.  Try that, with bitstreaming set to DSD in MC.  That should work.

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

You are correct of course Brian. I didn't give a complete answer, expecting to come back and discuss Zones and Zoneswitch.

I wanted Hitters to investigate and answer questions about his connection before I wrote more. After all, whether and connection can only handle Native DSD, or only DSD in DoP, makes a big difference.

[Hitters]

Thank you, BLGentry and RoderickGI. I tried changing the Audio Midi to the highest sampling rate and then turned the DSD on DoP ON in MC. Now it worked! Alas, all files, including PCM files are treated as DSD and converted to DSD.
Is there any way to set the MC so that DSD files are played as DSD in DoP and PCM files are played natively, meaning with their original sampling rate?
I love the sound of JRiver, but I am quite disappointed by the interface. Things that are very easy to do in ROON and Audirvana are very complex actions here.
Thanks again for your kind guidance and patience.

[Awesome Donkey]

If DSD bitstreaming is enabled, it should leave PCM alone and only apply to DSD (bitstreaming DSD). If you're using any DSP Studio > Output Format settings, disable those (like Brian said above, don't use it).

[RoderickGI]

But if his PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC is connected via USB, which only supports DSD in DoP, then he must use the MC DSP Studio Output Format, correct? If DSD Bitstreaming is enabled, his DSD files will be sent as Native DSD, and his PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC won't be able to play those, unless it is connected via I2S.

Hitter, you need to clarify which connection type you are using, if you wish to get the correct advice. USB or I2S?

[Awesome Donkey]

Nope, you don't need to use Output Format for DoP. Just enable DSD bitstreaming should be enough.

In MC on macOS, as far as I can tell, there's no option to toggle DoP or native DSD because macOS (CoreAudio) only supports DoP... as far as I know. Bob, can you confirm that?

[blgentry]

But if his PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC is connected via USB, which only supports DSD in DoP, then he must use the MC DSP Studio Output Format, correct?

As far as I know, DSP Studio > Output Encoding > (any DSD) always re-encodes.  So, if you start with a DSD file, it gets converted to PCM internally, then Output Encoding re-encodes it into whichever DSD format you told it (1x, 2x, or 4x) and sends it as DSD (in DoP format).  Why oh why does this feature even exist?  It's stated purpose is for special circumstances, like when you have a DAC that *only* accepts DSD format and nothing else.  That way you can play all of your files. 

The Mac version of MC only sends DSD as DoP as far as I know.  Though I think Exasound was supposed to have a "regular" DSD driver at some point.  There's been discussion about it, but I've forgotten the details.

MC will send DSD as DSD (in DoP) simply by turning on Audio > Settings > bitstreaming > DSD .  I now have a DAC that accepts DSD and was pleasantly surprised when it "just worked" when I set the above option.

So again, Output Encoding should essentially never be used for DSD.  I kinda wish they would disable this or at least put some giant disclaimer on it or something.  I've known audiophiles that listened to DSD this way for a while before I informed them that they were going through PCM; they were horrified and declared it was "better when set to bitstreaming".

Seriously MC team you should disable this extremely confusing, and essentially useless, feature.

Brian.

[bob]

Nope, you don't need to use Output Format for DoP. Just enable DSD bitstreaming should be enough.

In MC on macOS, as far as I can tell, there's no option to toggle DoP or native DSD because macOS (CoreAudio) only supports DoP... as far as I know. Bob, can you confirm that?

Yes!

[RoderickGI]

Well, I guess I learned, again, that the Mac version is a bit different. I should stay out of the Mac sandbox! 

[JimH]

Well, I guess I learned, again, that the Mac version is a bit different. I should stay out of the Mac sandbox! 

+1 for me.