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[xexets]

Hi all! I have started using JRiver these days and I love it. However I have a small problem that I don't know how to solve.
I have two dacs, this happens with both: Fiio K3 and iFi Zen.
I playback in JRiver via ASIO.
Windows 10, latest version and updates.

So everything works fine in JRiver. I play files, DSD, flac, high res, no problem. Normally as soon as I stop playing, even without closing JRiver, audio in other applications in windows works fine.

Sometimes however - and it seems to happen randomly, I cannot reproduce it - when I close JRiver windows audio does not work. I have to uplug and replug the dac and all is ok again. When this happens I notice that JRiver does not close immediately, it sort of freezes for a second.

It seems like sometimes the driver crashes or gets stuck on ASIO and does not switch back to Windows Direct Sound. I checked via task manager and there is no jriver running in the background when WDS does not work.

Do you know why this happens and how to avoid it - other than using Jrivier with Windows Direct sounds, which I don't want to do as I specifically use JRiver for bitperfect playback.

Thanks!

[JimH]

ASIO drivers usually come from the manufacturer of the DAC.  Sometimes they have bugs.

Try WASAPI in audio settings.

[RoderickGI]

It does sound like an ASIO driver bug.

But do you have the Windows Default Audio Device set to Direct Sound, or to the ASIO driver for your DAC?

If MC is set to the ASIO driver of the DAC, and the Windows Default Audio Device set to Direct Sound for the DAC, you may not see the issue.

That would mean all your quality audio from MC would play bitperfect via ASIO in Exclusive Mode, while all other normal Windows sounds would play via Direct Sound in Shared Mode, and only when MC wasn't playing.

If you set the Windows Default Audio Device to play to something other than the DAC, for example locally connected PC speakers, there would be even less chance of a problem. But that depends on your setup at the PC.

[xexets]

Thank you both for the replies!
1) I will try WASAPI. It is still bitperfect isn't it? I should hear no difference in quality compared to ASIO, correct?
2) Yes my default device is the iFi Zen in Windows (screenshot attached). I don't even have the option of selecting the iFi ASIO adriver in windows direct sound.
One further thing that might complicate the setup is that I have soundswitch installed, but that should not interfere or can it?
Thanks

[xexets]

Ok thanks to your pointers I think I solved this. It's about Sound Switch.
So everything works fine if I play via ASIO driver PCM or DSD (native). If in a single play session I switch from DSD to PCM and then close JRiver Direct sound does not work.
This is because when playing DSD native via ASIO the sound device disappears from Windows, as if it were disconnected. Soundswitch therefore switches to another device. When I go back to PCM soundswitch reports that it has switched back to the DAC, but it hasn't. When I quit JRiver, which ignores soundswitch and keeps playing via asio, simply soundswitch reports that the dac is selected, but it's not. I have to switch to another device and then back to the dac and all is fine.

- I just leave this here in case someone else is having similar issues.


Thanks!

[JimH]

ZoneSwitch?

[RoderickGI]

Or the third party Windows output switcher, SoundSwitch?  (Also at Github https://github.com/Belphemur/SoundSwitch)

I don't think it would be the DJ lighting software, SoundSwitch.

I assume you have installed SoundSwitch to switch audio outputs when MC isn't running, because MC doesn't need it at all. MC can play to whatever device you want to play to, as long as Windows sees the device. The output selection in MC is independent of the Windows output device setting. If you can do without SooundSwitch, this problem would disappear.

[xexets]

Yes, it's Soundswitch and yes, I installed it to switch audio when MC is not running.
Unfortunately also as you say the problem is not soundswitch. I tried again to reproduce the problem and switching back and forth, which solved the issue once no longer works. What worked this time was to open devices and change the Windows mixer sample rate, it sort of returned control of the device to windows.
Back to square 1, will probably revert to WASAPI for a bit to see if the problem persists.

[JimH]

This is because when playing DSD native via ASIO the sound device disappears from Windows, as if it were disconnected. Soundswitch therefore switches to another device. When I go back to PCM soundswitch reports that it has switched back to the DAC, but it hasn't.

That DSD and ASIO problem seems to point to a problem with the ASIO driver.

Using WASAPI is a fine solution.  Please read Audio Setup on our wiki.

[dtc]

That DSD and ASIO problem seems to point to a problem with the ASIO driver.

Using WASAPI is a fine solution.  Please read Audio Setup on our wiki.

DSD can be played using WASAPI, but only with DoP. If you want to send the native sample rate DSD, you need to use ASIO.  The FIFO specs say it uses DoP. However, the IFI specs do not mention DoP.   It does support DSD 256 (4x) which would require 705 MHz PCM for DoP, which it does not seem to support. So, it may support DoP for 1x and 2x DSD, but it probably does not for 4x.  The IFI may also simply not support DoP. I would try it with a 1x DSD 64 with WASAPI as a test.

[JimH]

DOP is DSD.  It's just in a special package.

From the wiki:

DSD over PCM packs DSD into a PCM-like signal for bitstreaming. This is not a conversion to PCM, but a native DSD signal packed into a PCM container. JRiver was part of the formation of the DoP standard. DSD over PCM requires Media Center 17.0.106 or newer.

To bitstream using this method:

You must have your Audio Output Mode set to WASAPI Event Style, ASIO, or Core Audio.

Select Tools > Options > Audio > Bitstreaming and select DSD. (In earlier versions, Bitstreaming is under Tools > Options > Video instead and you may need to select Custom and choose DSD over DOP).

Customize the 'DoP Format' if you have an older device that does not support the DoP standard

For ASIO Devices, you need to enable DSD bitstream in DoP Format in Tools > Options > Audio > Audio Device > Device Settings, otherwise native ASIO DSD bitstreaming will be used.

[dtc]

Yes, DoP is DSD. However,you need to pay attention to the details. It does not work on all dacs.  A 4xDSD is packed into a 705 KHz PCM stream and if the dac does not support 705 KHz PCM, then it cannot support 4xDSD using DoP.  And, the dac has to actually support DoP. Some do and some do not.  That is why you have to be careful using WASAPI for DSD. It only works if the dac supports DoP and also supports the right sample rates that are required for DoP.  WASAPI  for DSD does not work on all dacs.

[xexets]

Thanks all, this is a great forum!
I will try WASAPI. Yes DSD goes only through DoP in WASAPI, which is fine. The iFi supports DoP, but as you say only up to DSD128 max. I have everything at DSD64 max so no problem there. I'll try and see if WASAPI works better than ASIO.
Thanks!