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Author Topic: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?  (Read 1736 times)

stanzani

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JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« on: July 23, 2020, 02:36:22 am »

Hello
I have been involved in a discussion with subjectivist audiophiles (the kind of passionate which states the cable sounds) where they assert tha JRiver change the sounds of the program it is playg: add bass, alter the mezzosoprano tone valance an it is more suited for jazz and rock rathe than classical.

To me this sound ridicolous (provided all DSP plugins are disabled ...

Any player is bit perfect in its essence and I experience thin in blind tests from time to time
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Stereo:
DAW: Fanless Case Streatcon 7 with MSI A97I mobo, 2 x 8G RAM (Hynix) with Intel I5 CPU.
NAS: QNAP TS-531 with 5x4TB HDDs
DAC/ADC: RME ADI2 PRO
Speakers (active): 2 x ATC SCM50ASL
Subs (active): 2 x REL 528 Signature

Awesome Donkey

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2020, 03:33:16 am »

As long as you're not using any DSP (including volume leveling, room correction, etc.) and you're using WASAPI exclusive or ASIO, JRiver Media Center will output bit-perfect audio.
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Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

stanzani

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2020, 04:00:45 am »

I agree. It is hard to explain to hard core subjectivists and snake oil lovers audiophiles ;)
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Stereo:
DAW: Fanless Case Streatcon 7 with MSI A97I mobo, 2 x 8G RAM (Hynix) with Intel I5 CPU.
NAS: QNAP TS-531 with 5x4TB HDDs
DAC/ADC: RME ADI2 PRO
Speakers (active): 2 x ATC SCM50ASL
Subs (active): 2 x REL 528 Signature

tij

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2020, 05:59:10 am »

In some instances MC will pad zeroes to bits ... but that does not change bit “perfectness”

I also hate this sort of discussion ... same ppl who argue about bit perfectness then go on about how pure class-A tube amps sounds better than solid state ones ... even though tube amps do alter original sound due to their non entirely linear response ... theoretically making them not bit perfect (well ... since it’s not any more in digital domain ... not value perfect)

Note that I am not saying tube amps are bad ... I just hate ppl justifying money they spend on particular product by smearing other products with terms and concept they don’t fully understand
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RoderickGI

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2020, 06:40:08 pm »

I find most subjectivist audiophiles suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect. They spout lots of detailed information and yet know little about how their hardware actually works.

There are many sites, threads, and posts from subjectivist audiophiles all over the internet. Here is one that has a particularly good first post.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30185-10000ft-cable-burn-in-wasted-500-a-watt-on-an-amp-why-the-war/

The secret is: Don't engage. It just leads to angst.
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

Scobie

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 01:45:43 am »

I know more about the Dunning-Kruger effect than anyone, and you cant tell me otherwise.
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RoderickGI

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2020, 02:50:15 am »

 ;D ;D ;D
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner

S. Pupp

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2020, 10:51:26 am »

As long as your speaker cables are aligned with the earth’s magnetic field (remember to adjust yearly, as the magnetic field is shifting), you have south-facing curtains drawn, and you place Mpingo blocks on every electronic object in the room, JRiver will sound as good as any other bit-perfect software.
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RoderickGI

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Re: JRiver 'sounds'? Is not bit perfect?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 04:16:55 pm »

Now we are talking!

I had to Google Mpingo Blocks. They are actually available to buy! They are on eBay UK, and people have actually bought them!  ::) 

Some of the discussions about them are hilarious! ;D ;D ;D
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What specific version of MC you are running:MC27.0.27 @ Oct 27, 2020 and updating regularly Jim!                        MC Release Notes: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Release_Notes
What OS(s) and Version you are running:     Windows 10 Pro 64bit Version 2004 (OS Build 19041.572).
The JRMark score of the PC with an issue:    JRMark (version 26.0.52 64 bit): 3419
Important relevant info about your environment:     
  Using the HTPC as a MC Server & a Workstation as a MC Client plus some DLNA clients.
  Running JRiver for Android, JRemote2, Gizmo, & MO 4Media on a Sony Xperia XZ Premium Android 9.
  Playing video out to a Sony 65" TV connected via HDMI, playing digital audio out via motherboard sound card, PCIe TV tuner
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