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[jkauff]

My opinion as a 30 year UX design veteran is that a visual upgrade to MC would not particularly improve it, and would certainly take a lot of develop time.

What MC does need is an Information Architecture audit and a plan for making incremental changes to the way things are grouped, organized, and presented to the user over time.

Plex is missing many of the MC features, but it's free and very easy to use. Settings are mostly on the server (although the server UI is not very well done), and will almost never be accessed by the majority of users.

I understand that MC is for power users willing to invest time to learn and appreciate its features. A better IA, however, could reduce the learning time and make using it simpler.

[JimH]

What MC does need is an Information Architecture audit and a plan for making incremental changes to the way things are grouped, organized, and presented to the user over time.

Could you expand on this?  What needs to be changed, for example?

I understand that MC is for power users willing to invest time to learn and appreciate its features. A better IA, however, could reduce the learning time and make using it simpler.

Our customer base is a lot broader than the power user group.  Forum posters tilt in that direction, it's true.

[tij]

I think he means you need to review what MC has in term of options/settings ... in order to determine best way to group/organise them to present to user

I can think of one example ... the way audio settings are presented, one might think MC has single audio engine when in fact it has separate audio engine for video (undetstandale as audio needs to be sync with video) ... so not all settings in Audio will apply to just pure Audio or Video/Audio (eg. bitstreaming atm only applies to Video/Audio engine ... not sure about other settings)

While this does not really bother me personally ... it might be daunting and frustrating for others

[jkauff]

Could you expand on this?  What needs to be changed, for example? Our customer base is a lot broader than the power user group.  Forum posters tilt in that direction, it's true.

MC has many configuration options, but it's not always clear what they're for. I would like to see an IA that is designed around key user tasks, of both casual users and advanced users. One such task is setting up a library, which is the first task most users need to accomplish. How are they to understand that File/Library/Import is where they need to go? Tools/Import is better, but why two entry points for the same operation? There's also File/Import from iTunes and File/Import from iTunes Library? What if I don't use iTunes, or don't know the difference between iTunes and an iTunes Library?

In Plex Server, all you have to do is choose a media type and browse for the appropriate folders. Simple. No need at this point to introduce concepts like auto-import (it's automatic in Plex anyway). In MC you're given the menu choices to import a single folder, configure auto-import, or run auto-import. Why not just let them easily import whatever folders they want to and eliminate auto-import altogether? The key user task is to get the files of a certain media type loaded into the library. Accomplishing that should be simple, and accessible on or from the splash screen (although a Home page would be better).

There are dozens of other key user tasks, some for beginners, some for casual users, some for expert users. MC needs to be organized to support those tasks. Expose only the functionality required for a given task, with a way to dive deeper if the user wants to.

Anyway, that's one example. IMO you need an Information Architect to study the current iA, then present the proposed IA in diagrams and screen wireframes. The recommendations should be self-contained (so you can do sprint planning), prioritized, and written in a way that assumes developers are the target audience (not C-level execs).

[JimH]

MC does import your files, even if you don't set up auto import.

We also send a Getting Started link when a customer purchases:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Getting_Started
It talks about import.

Our method is different from the one you propose, and I'm sure yours works, but why is it better than this continuous feedback loop (forum) that we use?

Users find areas that need to be improved and we improve them.

If we moved our options around now, I think we'd risk revolt.

The options page has a search window, and search is sometimes a better method than organizational structure.

I don't mean to say that what you suggest is not important.  I'm trying to understand whether it would be better.

[jkauff]

Is there a screen I'm missing that shows/explains how MC imports my files? How does it know what the media types are? Just by file extension? What if my storage drives are offline at the time?

The Getting Started information needs to be in the program itself, not an emailed link to a Wiki page (assuming that's where it is).

Again, this is a very key user task. It needs more love.

[JimH]

You could test this by creating a new library.  Once done, it will be empty and will prompt you what to do next.

It's handled in the program now.  Perhaps it could be improved. 

[jkauff]

Ok, I created a new library. There was nothing to tell me I had to select it in the tree to do something with it. It should have been selected by default anyway.

Once I selected the new library, my choices on the Manage Library page are:


• Rename
I just created the library, so I don't want to rename it.

• Back Up Library
• Restore Library
Again, I don't want to back up my empty library, and there's nothing to restore.

• Import
Ah, finally there's an action I want to take. But what are all those other buttons on the page?

The problem here, of course, is that the Manage Library page is for ALL libraries. The new user needs a different page, a Getting Started With Your New Library or a Populate Your New Library page/dialog. His/her task is populating the FIRST EVER library. Even if they click Import, they get the same unclear dialog for importing files.

Not new-user-friendly.

So how do you know someone is a new user? I'm sure you know many ways, but you can easily check on startup whether the only library is Main, and that it's empty. You might catch a few "starting over" users, but that's OK.

[JimH]

A new user would get a message in the Action Window, telling him that import would begin in 45 seconds and giving him a chance to cancel.

I suggested the above to point out that there is a message on the right to "Double click to import".  Just as an example of what you suggested -- put it in the program.

But you shouldn't have needed to select the new library.   It would have been set to it automatically, so I'm not sure where you ended up.

You're probably right that Rename isn't needed, nor Backup and Restore, when the library is new.

[jkauff]

That scares me. What do you import automatically?

[JimH]

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Import

It will find all your media files, add them to your database, and display them in MC.  If you don't want that, you need to import them by configuring auto-import or by importing individual folders.

It could be argued (and has been many times) that a user shouldn't need that.   You'd be surprised how many do.  Many years ago we did a lot of testing when we did a project for Best Buy.  Lots of people were stumped.  So we added an automatic import and a message telling the expert users they could cancel.

You picked a particularly good subject for a UI discussion.

[tij]

imho ... automatic import should not be there ... can be embarrassing if MC finds your hidden stash of porn

I think a start-up wizard should be fire-up after installation complete (most software will do that if initial configuration is required) to set-up most critical parts with some description of what each step/option does (set up library, basic audio and/or video configuration, basic advice on antivirus with the link to forums that explain settings, maybe even link to forum for them to register).

Of course ... have a last option as cancel


PS. i never understood importing individual folders ... why that could not be done with including that folder in autoimport?

[RoderickGI]

PS. i never understood importing individual folders ... why that could not be done with including that folder in autoimport?

I often import single folders of stuff as a once-off. I don't want MC to look in that folder in the future, but I want the files in the Library. I don't want to set up Auto Import for that folder.

[RoderickGI]

One thing that might be a balance between the current "import everything MC can find" process and the "learn enough about MC to set up Auto Import" would be to have MC automatically do the Discovery Process of finding everything it can when a new Library is created, and then display to the user what it found, with checkboxes at each folder level so that I user can select or deselect which folders are imported. So the folder full of porn could be deselected, and the family photos folder could be selected.

This could have some intelligence, such that Windows system folders are deselected by default, as are all program folders, while Windows Libraries (Camera Roll, Music, Videos, Pictures, etc. if they are present) would be selected by default. Maybe there should also be a way to select which drives to search before the file search is started, so that process is quicker. Then when user know all their music is on the F: drive, they could deselect all other drives before wasting time letting MC search everywhere.

The might be an option to save selected folders to the Auto Import setup, or not. There might be help information describing what that means, or maybe the function would just ask the user if they want those folders to be watched in future for new files, to remove the jargon.

But that is just a specific example. The first import process is very simple now. It would benefit from being driven by a Wizard that manages the process, answering the sort of questions real users ask. Also, the first import is only done once, so really any improvement should do almost everything for the user, but also introduce them to the Auto Import configuration, perhaps by showing them those settings as defined by the wizard, before starting the actual import.

[JimH]

One thing that might be a balance between the current "import everything MC can find" process and the "learn enough about MC to set up Auto Import" would be to have MC automatically do the Discovery Process of finding everything it can when a new Library is created, and then display to the user what it found, with checkboxes at each folder level so that I user can select or deselect which folders are imported. So the folder full of porn could be deselected, and the family photos folder could be selected.

It might be better for some, but worse for others since files can be anywhere, and it adds another step.   We have considered it.

An experienced user can accomplish the same thing by setting up auto-import.

[jkauff]

The Auto Import could easily be improved. A name change would be the first thing, since most new users would have no idea what the current name means. Even something as simple as Library Files would help. Then get rid of the dialog where you choose Import a Folder, Configure Auto Import, or Run Auto Import. Users should be taken directly to an Add Library Folders page. The other radio buttons should be buttons at the bottom of the Add screen.

Next, the main Configure Auto Import dialog should probably be combined with the Add dialog so that users can see what's going to happen when they choose their media folders. Allow them to choose their media types at the same time they're adding folders. Also, give them the ability to tag each folder as "Automatically update" or not. That would make Import a Single Folder redundant.

A Tasks button should be added so that the task choices would not appear on the main screen. Clicking the button would bring up a dialog identical to the current Tasks display. That would remove clutter from the main screen.

The Finish button should appear above the other dialog buttons, made larger/more prominent, and renamed to something like Run Add/Update Now.

Jim, if you'd like, I could sketch this out for you. Easier to understand as a wireframe than as a description.

[RoderickGI]

The Auto Import could easily be improved. A name change would be the first thing, since most new users would have no idea what the current name means. Even something as simple as Library Files would help.

That wouldn't work well for me at all. Seems like a move toward the way iTunes did things, which I always found annoying and non-intuitive.

Auto Import is exactly what it says it is: Defining how files should be automatically imported, and then running the import process.

The dialogue layout and even naming could be improved for sure, but some more thought on naming I think.

There is already a Toolbar button called "Run Auto-Import Now" which allows users to quickly run the preconfigured import process.

[jkauff]

Auto Import is exactly what it says it is: Defining how files should be automatically imported, and then running the import process.

I'm not sure a new user would understand that "auto import" means adding files to the library, then periodically scanning the folders for changes. Why "import" anyway? Why not just "add"? These are two different functions. What if I want some of my folders to NOT be automatically updated? What if I just want to populate the library and not have ANYTHING automatically updated? No way to do that today.

[RoderickGI]

No way to do that today.

Of course there is, but that is way off topic.

[jkauff]

Of course there is, but that is way off topic.

No, it's relevant. I'm an average user, and I don't know how to do it. I don't doubt that there's a way to do it, but it's not obvious to me.

[tij]

I often import single folders of stuff as a once-off. I don't want MC to look in that folder in the future, but I want the files in the Library. I don't want to set up Auto Import for that folder.

I don’t get that (though surely you have very good reason for this) ... and that annoys hell out of me (not understanding why)

Could you explain it a bit ... why once off? ... why don’t want MC to look at that folder again? ... if those files in once off directory got deleted - don’t you want MC to know about it?

[RoderickGI]

No, it's relevant. I'm an average user, and I don't know how to do it. I don't doubt that there's a way to do it, but it's not obvious to me.

Two ways depending on needs.

The easiest, just import a single top level folder once, and never touch import again. MC will import the file types you select in the dialogue in the selected folder and folders below that top level folder.

The other way is to set up Auto Import for the folders you want to import, included its child folders, run Auto Import once, and never turn on running Auto Import in the background. "Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Run auto-import in the background".


Either of those mostly take care of preventing any new files being imported, along with other settings in "Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import" section. One exception is the setting "Options > General > Importing & Tagging > Automatically import files whe played".

Auto-Import also has some tagging functions that won't run because Auto Import isn't run, such as "Update For Exernal Changes", in which case the Library won't be updated with changes made to the files external to MC.
Then if you also don't want MC writing tags to files at all, just turn off "Options > General > Importing & Tagging > Update Tags When File Info Changes".


I am surprised that you were suggesting significant changes to the Auto Import functionality without understanding it. MC isn't, and never will be, an iTunes clone that just grabs everything and rearranges it for you without permission. It does have a learning curve. The naming of things has been debated often, and not much (anything?) has changed. But that is just semantics, and part of learning a powerful software application.

[jkauff]

I'm well aware of the power and complexity of MC, having been a user for quite a few years. However, JimH remarked earlier in the thread that MC was meant for a variety of users, not just power users. I'm not advocating taking away any of the power, just some of the complexity so new users and occasional users have a better initial experience.

I'm a Windows user, but I also have a Mac. I spent just enough time with iTunes to realize how awful it was, and I've never used it since. As a longtime foobar2000 user, I was shocked that iTunes gives you no way to take off the training wheels.

[JimH]

I'm well aware of the power and complexity of MC, having been a user for quite a few years. However, JimH remarked earlier in the thread that MC was meant for a variety of users, not just power users. I'm not advocating taking away any of the power, just some of the complexity so new users and occasional users have a better initial experience.

And we appreciate that.

[RoderickGI]

Family interruptous. Which is very welcome while I'm in Stage 4 Coronavirus Lockdown.

Could you explain it a bit ... why once off?

I do that when I want new files in one place, separate from other media files, usually because I am doing work on or evaluating them. Being in one folder I can easily filter down to just those files in MC, or use a Files View to drill down to their location, or use the MC Explorer function to manage them. That works regardless of any relationship, or lack of it, between the files.

There are a few reasons for managing new media files that way. One is that I am setting up a test of something in MC, and want a new set of files to test on. So I copy some files to their own folder, then import just that folder. When I am finished with them I can quickly delete them from the Library, even if their tags now put them in different Views and not together. There are other ways to handle this, but I gravitate back to this simple method often.

Another process I use is to review new audio files, and I want to do that in MC. Then if I am happy with the files I can just move them using the RM&CF function in MC. If not, I can just delete the folder, even just using Windows Explorer, and MC will remove them from the Library. But my preferred approach is again to use the MC Files View or MC Explorer.

I used to do that a bit with downloaded Podcast series, but not so much anymore. I still do that with images, if I haven't culled them with another application. Or just to decide where they should reside in the Library.

I also use this method with Work In Process videos I am creating, from my action cameras or the mobile. I often import incomplete Premier Pro project folders I'm working on to take a look at them in MC, or to bookmark where I'm at. Those will never be retained in the Library, as only the final result is kept, and it will be stored with other media files.


Maybe it is a bit of a strange way to use MC, but that is what I do, and I find it saves me time and gives me better control.

[RoderickGI]

jkauff, I think we are on the same page. I have no doubt that the process of getting media files into MC the first time, for a first time user, could be more intuitive.

But once that is done I think it becomes necessary to learn enough about Auto Import to ensure that MC continues to import files as required, without user intervention, and that requires the complexity that MC offers, because everybody's environment is just a little bit different, and they want to do things a little differently.

[jkauff]

jkauff, I think we are on the same page. I have no doubt that the process of getting media files into MC the first time, for a first time user, could be more intuitive.

But once that is done I think it becomes necessary to learn enough about Auto Import to ensure that MC continues to import files as required, without user intervention, and that requires the complexity that MC offers, because everybody's environment is just a little bit different, and they want to do things a little differently.

I have no problem with Auto Import for experienced users, except for the name. I think Auto Update better describes the function. Import sounds like you're importing from some other source, like a phone or a portable player.

[RoderickGI]

Yep.

Years ago I argued that the Library was actually a Database, and should be called a Database.
I also argued that MC wasn't importing anything, but in fact just Indexing the files it finds.

But the names had history, and they remained unchanged.

So I certainly understand where you are coming from, and agree that the new user, first Library media files discovery process could be better. So could the overall understanding of Auto Import in the user base.

[mattkhan]

Auto update sounds even more misleading as that doesn't even imply any new content is added

The problem, if there is one, is the function is named from MC's perspective and not that of the user.

From MC's perspective, it is an import (or insert) of new records into the library (database) where a record is some external content.

From the user's perspective, it is not really an import, it is just the rules used to tell MC where to look for content and then some rules for what to do when it finds things.

I don't really know what a good name for that is, content discovery perhaps.

Obviously I am biased because I am already a user but this seems like a tiny problem in the scheme of things. Is the current process really that confusing? I mean you just pick a directory or drive and that's it. If you want to do something fancier then it must imply you know quite a bit about MC already.

[jkauff]

It's certainly a minor thing, but so far we've limited the discussion to the "new user" aspect of this particular function (JimH asked me for an example). It's just one of several things in MC that need to be looked at from the perspective of user tasks. What we think makes sense might be right or wrong. Without some usability testing we can't know for sure. It's nearly impossible for experienced users or developers to see an application from a new user's point of view, which is why you test with people who are unfamiliar with the program.

Setting up a Plex server is similar to setting up an MC library, but it's fairly easy and straightforward for a new user. Plex is free and MC costs money, so in my opinion MC should be even more intuitive than Plex. I use both, and it's obvious that Plex has a UX Designer on the team. It's just as obvious that the MC user interface was designed by the developers.