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[wittao]

is there a plan in the near future for a JRiver version,
- focused ONLY JUST FOR AUDIO?
- Without any video, picture etc. solution... for best SQ, and shorter menus, options etc.
- Tidal/Spotify/HRA etc. integration

I love JRiver’s audio part, the best on the market (not just my opinion) SQ, good file handling, album arts etc.
The stream is the future (i know exactly your standing about stream, that is clear for me) BESIDE our files.

What do you think about a version of JRiver Audio with these features ?
I will pay for this “skeleton” version 100$ / licence. The audio SQ is much more important and the stream solutions than video play/codecs/picture organizing methods etc. I will really pay double licence fee for this. I think/hope i am not alone.

Thanks a lot and i am very interested about your opinion,
wittao

[Awesome Donkey]

- focused ONLY JUST FOR AUDIO?
- Without any video, picture etc. solution... for best SQ, and shorter menus, options etc.

This isn't needed and you can already do this, just enable Audio Only Mode and all the video, images, TV features go away. You can also go into MC's Settings > General > Features section and disable other features you don't need.

IMO, the name of the software is JRiver Media Center which implies to me that it does more than audio. Having an audio only version isn't financially viable as JRiver would have to maintain two separate versions, which then would have to be compiled on Windows, Mac and Linux and released. The development time and money invested in such a thing simply isn't worth it, especially when you can already disable all the video, images, TV, etc. features and just enable Audio Only Mode.

- Tidal/Spotify/HRA etc. integration

Do a search of the forums, and you'll see why these aren't likely going to happen.

[wittao]

This isn't needed and you can already do this, just enable Audio Only Mode and all the video, images, TV features go away. You can also go into MC's Settings > General > Features section and disable other features you don't need.

IMO, the name of the software is JRiver Media Center which implies to me that it does more than audio. Having an audio only version isn't financially viable as JRiver would have to maintain two separate versions, which then would have to be compiled on Windows, Mac and Linux and released. The development time and money invested in such a thing simply isn't worth it, especially when you can already disable all the video, images, TV, etc. features and just enable Audio Only Mode.

Do a search of the forums, and you'll see why these aren't likely going to happen.

Hi, thanks. I know the audio only mode.
My problem is that: JRiver will be some years later like NERO Burning ROM , 2.5 Gb CD writer software with torrent downloader, media player and ... a little bit CD writer.
Otherwise in the past years i WANT install JRIver onto our media servers but my customers need a stream to. My only choice are Roon or Audirvana. I like the SQ of JRiver but the customers don’t want to change between softwares. That is why i need a solution for an audiophile users, who want to use JRiver!

[Awesome Donkey]

Hi, thanks. I know the audio only mode.
My problem is that: JRiver will be some years later like NERO Burning ROM , 2.5 Gb CD writer software with torrent downloader, media player and ... a little bit CD writer.

Uhh, I don't get what you mean here. JRiver Media Center 27's 64-bit Windows installer size is only 37MB and this has changed very, very little over the years. This is nowhere near Nero Burning ROM's bloated 2.5GB size and I don't expect Media Center to ever become a bloated mess like Nero. Even while Media Center is running it doesn't even use anything near that much resource usage (unless you're using memory playback, but that's to be expected if you're playing large files). So it's not even in the same league as apps full of bloat like Nero.

Otherwise in the past years i WANT install JRIver onto our media servers but my customers need a stream to. My only choice are Roon or Audirvana. I like the SQ of JRiver but the customers don’t want to change between softwares. That is why i need a solution for an audiophile users, who want to use JRiver!

I'm sorry that I had to burst your bubble on streaming service integrations but JRiver has posted multiple times they don't intend to do Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz or any other streaming service integrations. Like I said a search of the forums will reveal their reasoning behind this, and there's also this thread which also helps explain why they're not interested: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.0.html

There is one workaround for it... you could use Media Center's WDM driver on Windows with apps that support Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz and other streaming services and it'll go through Media Center. That's the only way to do it.

[DJLegba]

This isn't needed and you can already do this, just enable Audio Only Mode and all the video, images, TV features go away.

PDF booklets also go away, because they're considered Data, and Data isn't included in Audio Only mode.

[Awesome Donkey]

PDF booklets also go away, because they're considered Data, and Data isn't included in Audio Only mode.

Maybe that's something that can be requested for MC27?

[wittao]

Uhh, I don't get what you mean here. JRiver Media Center 27's 64-bit Windows installer size is only 37MB and this has changed very, very little over the years. This is nowhere near Nero Burning ROM's bloated 2.5GB size and I don't expect Media Center to ever become a bloated mess like Nero. Even while Media Center is running it doesn't even use anything near that much resource usage (unless you're using memory playback, but that's to be expected if you're playing large files). So it's not even in the same league as apps full of bloat like Nero.

I'm sorry that I had to burst your bubble on streaming service integrations but JRiver has posted multiple times they don't intend to do Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz or any other streaming service integrations. Like I said a search of the forums will reveal their reasoning behind this, and there's also this thread which also helps explain why they're not interested: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,101545.0.html

There is one workaround for it... you could use Media Center's WDM driver on Windows with apps that support Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz and other streaming services and it'll go through Media Center. That's the only way to do it.

Hmmm, you have right here but on the other side are 300-400 million user who use stream solutions...
Earlier MC19-23 it was absolutely ok. But come on... there is ROON, there is Audirvana with integrated Tidal, Qobuz, HRA, Deezer. And a lot of player with supported Spotify, solution to use Apple Music, Amazon Prime Music.
IF MC27 or MC28 will integrate only just Tidal, that will be a great step and not a huge risk (i think).

[JimH]

Tidal claimed a million users at one point, but their statements weren't often reliable.  It's not a business I respect.

[fitbrit]

Hi, thanks. I know the audio only mode.
My problem is that: JRiver will be some years later like NERO Burning ROM , 2.5 Gb CD writer software with torrent downloader, media player and ... a little bit CD writer.
Otherwise in the past years i WANT install JRIver onto our media servers but my customers need a stream to. My only choice are Roon or Audirvana. I like the SQ of JRiver but the customers don’t want to change between softwares. That is why i need a solution for an audiophile users, who want to use JRiver!

I feel your pain. While I think I will always use MC, especially for video, most of my (audiophile) customers love the sound quality of MC, but cannot stand the interface, or that they cannot control Qobuz or Tidal through it.
Solution: Use WDM driver.
Why that is not the perfect solution: Because there is no native remote control app to control Tidal and/or Qobuz. JRemote cannot do it of course. So now they would need a remote desktop app and switch apps.

Solution: Use Tidal or Audirvana. Both play local library files and allow remote control of Tidal/Qobuz. Their desktop interface is very well reproduced on an iPad too, so no new stuff to learn.

Why that is not the perfect solution:
1. Roon is expensive.
2. Roon's handling of large libraries is terrible (5-20 minutes just to start up)
3. No memory playback, even when using WDM
4. Audirvana is cheaper but still buggy, for very large libraries

My customers often prefer Roon or Audirvana with WDM for interface reasons, but for some with large libraries, nothing comes close to JRiver MC in handling these.

So what is the perfect solution?

1. MC with a less complex interface, or one which is more visually appealing
2. MC with streaming service integration and a mobile app that allows control of streaming and local libraries
3. Roon or Audirvana with handling of large libraries with MC WDM

Of the three options, number 3 requires no additional work from JRiver, and they still get the sale.
But really it seems none of the three options is going to happen. Therefore we continue to supply MC as standard for our hardware, and I support my customers as much as possible so they don't have to deal with all the stuff in MC that they don't understand. That kind of suits me fine, because they get the best sound quality and don't have to worry about customisation. Plus, anything I learn while helping one client is usually applicable to multiple others.

[bahamot]

...
So what is the perfect solution?

1. MC with a less complex interface, or one which is more visually appealing to the majority of people - like Roon
...

Theater view is nice and simple, IMHO.

edit:
Tidal and Qobuz can be played to any DLNA enabled renderer (MC) through BubbleUPnP Pro player on Android.

[fitbrit]

Theater view is nice and simple, IMHO.

edit:
Tidal and Qobuz can be played to any DLNA enabled renderer (MC) through BubleUpnp player on Android.

A lot of audiophiles do not want a monitor or other screen in their listening rooms. The Theater View touchscreen on a remote desktop mobile app is really not ideal. There are some common touch gestures that people are used to that MC just doesn't offer very well, especially on a remote connection touchscreen. The flick to scroll for example, just doesn't work so well in this way.
I will be experimenting a little with it for my customer with possibly the largest music only library I know of.

[MikeO]

Maybe not the overall answer to Streaming but we must appreciate and respect JimH on his stand

Have you looked at mConnect as a remote , control app. It’s not as slick as JRemote but does honour all the JRiver DLNA menus and integrates Tidal and Qobuz, not MQA at this point. At least you can play Tidal etc easily through a DLNA renderer which I assume you have

You get the best of both worlds , it $10 I believe

I think there is a trial as well, iOS and Android

[Awesome Donkey]

Hmmm, you have right here but on the other side are 300-400 million user who use stream solutions...
Earlier MC19-23 it was absolutely ok. But come on... there is ROON, there is Audirvana with integrated Tidal, Qobuz, HRA, Deezer. And a lot of player with supported Spotify, solution to use Apple Music, Amazon Prime Music.
IF MC27 or MC28 will integrate only just Tidal, that will be a great step and not a huge risk (i think).

Media Center did do a Tidal integration years ago, but it wasn't released because Tidal demanded control over the interface so it didn't work out and it was removed.

There was a recent topic about streaming services, and both Jim and Hendrik explain why JRiver isn't likely going to be doing any streaming service integrations. Here's the topic: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,125509.0.html

This is my personal opinion and prediction... I don't think streaming service integrations like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, etc. (or snail oil audio formats like MQA) are ever going to happen within Media Center. Only one I can think of being plausible is Amazon Music, and that'd probably only happen if Amazon approached JRiver about an integration and paid for the development. Again personally, I don't care about streaming services. I more-or-less now have my own streaming service I built from the ground up with nearly 120,000 lossless tracks with MC powering it, so why would I even need a streaming service to begin with? I have one as part of my YouTube Premium subscription, but I never use it. I don't need to.

MikeO is right, you have to respect Jim's and JRiver's stance on streaming service integrations. They've explained their position multiple times now and it's always been the same and I don't see them budging on it. So because they've decided to not do any streaming service integrations and gave their reasoning why, you have to respect their decision and either accept it or find alternative software. It's up to you.

[MikeO]

That’s what makes mConnect attractive to me it’s a win win

You keep all the good bits of MC and get to stream

I admit I stream maybe 5% if that , I have a 5000 album library

[JimH]

A lot of audiophiles do not want a monitor or other screen in their listening rooms. The Theater View touchscreen on a remote desktop mobile app is really not ideal. There are some common touch gestures that people are used to that MC just doesn't offer very well, especially on a remote connection touchscreen. The flick to scroll for example, just doesn't work so well in this way.

As you know, there are many interfaces available when you use JRiver:

Standard View
Theater View
Cover View

and with JRiver remotes:

Gizmo
JRemote, JRemote2
Panel
MC itself (Tremote)
JRiver for Android

and from third party remotes:

MO 4Media and other third party software.

And hardware remotes, like the Media Center Remote.

In fact, there is an entire board devoted to remotes:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/board,37.0.html

Anyway, this is about music isn't it?  Not what "audiophiles" think. 

Some subset of audiophiles are a capricious lot, going from one idea to another for the sake of discussing the "finer points" ad nauseum.  That's not our market.

JRiver is about music.  And, if you care, about movies and photos and television.

We're not in the business of following every whim of a minor segment of the market. 

JRiver is about substance and quality.

[Dawgincontrol]

Actually, I think "audiophiles" are part of your market.  Though, you may not be after the guy who meticulously goes through his vinyl collection, there is a group who look for the best sound possible from digitized music.  Whether it be cd, sacd, dvd-a, or FLAC/WAV.  We are here.

I don't use streaming as I am in the same category as Awesome Donkey.  When I sit down to enjoy music I expect a certain level of sound and I have a large music library that is attuned to me. 

For the most part, Media Center meets that.  Your enemy is Windows and their updates.   

[bahamot]

Your enemy is Windows and their updates.   

Yeah, windows update is annoying for a dedicated MC renderer. I've disabled here and there to prevent auto updates on my windows mini pc.

[JimH]

Actually, I think "audiophiles" are part of your market.  Though, you may not be after the guy who meticulously goes through his vinyl collection, there is a group who look for the best sound possible from digitized music.  Whether it be cd, sacd, dvd-a, or FLAC/WAV.  We are here.

Yes, they are important to us, but there are some who are more eager to talk about the latest myth than to actually enjoy music.  Those are not our market.

[MikeO]

To me Remote Apps are the real essential. I have a large album collection which I maintain, Tag etc in MC on a Windows Desktop.

For many reasons (mainly clutter in the lounge) my listening and viewing habits have changed over  years and I now have "dropped" to a top of range soundbar (Samsung 950) and a top of range headphone rig Audiolab M-DAC and HD800s).

When it comes to listening I sit with an iPad (or Android tablet) and select music, I went through the Cinema View bit with a dedicated PC at the listening point but eventually went for a streamer solution (Cambridge Audio CXN) with and ethernet connection. For video I now have a dedicated video streamer (MyGica 1960) reading the MC Server with its own remote control.

The main MC UI needs by definition to be complex to be comprehensive and I for one have had no issues with it's complexity something I suspect others find a drawback (hence the calls for UI Changes in this forum).

So in reality the choice of remote is key , the server bit simply "just works". MC has the advantage over its competitor(s) of customisability. Fitbit refers a bit to this above . "Navigation of Classical" music is a nightmare in the top 2 alternatives but is made simple by the MC Rules Engine and views.

I have been using MC for 8 years now and see no reason to stop.

I have been vocal on Streaming ala Tidal etc but I have ways around this , maybe not elegantly but ... My CXN supports Tidal, Qobuz & Spotify and allows easy launch of even Amazon so all is not lost

Just my thoughts on the subject , sorry if a little verbose

Please keep up the good work

Mike

[fitbrit]

There are some good suggestions in this thread that I can look into.
I'm quite comfortable with MC, of course, but the views I expressed are those I hear day in and day out from a cohort of a few hundred people. A tiny drop in the bucket of JRiver customers.