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[Paul S.A. Renaud]

My library consists of a lot of FLAC albums up to 24/384 and DSD (64, 128). Part of the DSD is directly downloaded DSF files (paid for) and the rest is ripped SACD (which I own and paid for. I use Sonore software to rip the SACD). I play most of my music using the native codec, i.e. I do not transcode anything, except for the iPhone. A common nasty problem I have (and has been discussed a lot), I have are the so-called "DSD-clicks", i.e. there is always an audible click between tracks from DSF-files ripped from SACD. It occurs everywhere, i.e. independent of DAC (Mytek, Oppo, Chord, etc.) and all kind of transcoding software, such as JRiver, Roon, Dbpoweramp, Plex (Plexamp).

Mostly the click is not too loud, but still very annoying when using headphones and/or albums with a lot of short tracks played gapless (oratoria, opera).

Q1: how can I eliminate the clicks entirely?

[Awesome Donkey]

Use this fork of sacd_extract to extract DSF files from your SACD ISOs. This fork has the click issue fixed completely. The DSF to FLAC issue is probably unavoidable unfortunately.

https://github.com/setmind/sacd-ripper

Here's a compiled version of the latest commits: http://www.mediafire.com/file/8zrgu401lb78on0/sacd_extract.zip/file

Just follow the instructions on the fork's Github page. What I usually do is I have a folder in the root of my C:\ drive for sacd_extract and inside it I have the executable and an Output folder. I then move my SACD ISOs inside and use this command to extract stereo DSF tracks from the SACD ISOs...

Code: [Select]

C:\sacd_extract\sacd_extract.exe -2 -s -z -i"ISO_Name.iso" -o "C:\sacd_extract\Output"
Something like that works rather well.

[Paul S.A. Renaud]

Thanks for this. But it means I have to re-ripped all SACDs as I deleted the ISO's. So 500 to go. ?

[TheShoe]

yup - you do.  i actually back up all my SACD ISOs as it's good to have backups!  and space is cheap (relatively).

i can confirm this solution works by the way - i had the same click issue until i used the forked version of sacd_extract

[Awesome Donkey]

Yep, unfortunately you'll have to recreate the DSF files from the source SACD ISOs, as there's no way to 'fix' it in the bad DSF files.

[JimH]

Is the tick at the end of the track in a predictable spot?

[Awesome Donkey]

This is the part that fixed it in the sacd_extract fork: https://github.com/setmind/sacd-ripper/commit/f16bbe1e7bf108a6d3f0c26b3a4d193d3a68dbbb

And yes, MC is affected with pops/click noises at track transitions as well if you do any sort of DSD conversion, though I don't know the reason why it happens in MC. How I understand the sacd_extract issue is that using zero padding at the tail end of the DSF track causes a pop/click noise at the track transition. The fix the sacd_extract fork uses is to avoid the use of zero padding by carrying over the leftover samples to the next track, or something like that. I could be completely wrong.

[JimH]

Thanks.

[dtc]

Some people have reported reducing the clicks by using the option to play silence at the beginning of the track. You can also try changing the time between tracks. Probably will not help, but worth a try.  Also try playing from memory. Again, probably will not help, but anything is better than re-ripping everything.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, it doesn't help since the clicks/pops are present in the files themselves at the track transition. It's most noticeable in the two Pink Floyd SACDs when ripping them to DSF with the original sacd_extract, since the tracks segue into each other and you can hear the pops at the transition points. Unfortunately re-ripping from the SACD ISOs is the only way you can fix it.

How you can fix it by re-ripping from the source SACD ISOs is: 1) Rip the files to DFF which has its own issues due to lack of metadata support. 2) Rip the files to DFF then boot into macOS which has an app called dff2dsf which repackages a DFF file to DSF without any sort of conversion. 3) Using the sacd_extract fork which has the issue fully fixed for DSF files, which allowed me to not have to boot to macOS anymore to fix the issue.

Using the sacd_extract fork, those two Pink Floyd albums I mentioned segue into each other perfectly when using gapless playback, not a single pop is heard!

[dtc]

Agreed, but worth trying just in case. These solutions sometimes work for specific DACs but not usually when caused by this coding problem.

[pluto]

...
2) Rip the files to DFF then boot into macOS which has an app called dff2dsf which repackages a DFF file to DSF without any sort of conversion.

You can convert DFF to DSF without resorting to macOS using Sox with a command line something like

Code: [Select]

sox -D -S --no-clobber "input_filename.dff" -t dsf "output_filename.dsf"
Things happen quickly enough to imply that no actual processing of the audio is taking place.

[kr4]

How you can fix it by re-ripping from the source SACD ISOs is: 1) Rip the files to DFF which has its own issues due to lack of metadata support. 2) Rip the files to DFF then boot into macOS which has an app called dff2dsf which repackages a DFF file to DSF without any sort of conversion. 3) Using the sacd_extract fork which has the issue fully fixed for DSF files, which allowed me to not have to boot to macOS anymore to fix the issue.

You can automate this and retain the metadata by using Bogi's method. https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/21178-how-do-you-store-dff-untagged-files/page/8/?tab=comments#comment-365363

[CalJake]

I guess I should count my blessings?  That would drive me crazy.  I too rip all my SACDs from my Oppo 103 to DSF using Senore, then play back my Media Center library from a PC on my Pioneer (or Oppo) SACD player.  I've never heard this DSD click.  Since I'm 90+% classical, I'm listening to a lot of DSF files.  I'm wondering why I'm lucky?  I've used the PC and Linux version of Senore, without the issue.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[HandLogger]

Although I received a 120-day warning when I pressed the reply button, this thread seems to describe the question I have rather well...

If I'm understanding this issue correctly, if one uses the Sonore ISO2DSD interface to rip their own SACDs and selects the "Sony DSF" -- as opposed to the "Raw ISO" output mode -- they may very well end up with "The infamous DSD-click..." when converting the resulting .dsf files to .flac format.  Is this correct? 

If it is correct, can this be avoided altogether by simply using the ISO2DSD "Raw ISO" output mode and, afterword, converting the single .iso file to .flac directly?

Please forgive the rookie questions, but we're old school stereo listeners who are just now venturing into digital playback.    

[AGAWA]

this a workaround only.
SACD players do not exhibit this "infamous click".
They simply mute before, in-between and after.
This could be implemented in JRiver , but I understand this is not a top priority.

[HandLogger]

this a workaround only.
SACD players do not exhibit this "infamous click".
They simply mute before, in-between and after.
This could be implemented in JRiver , but I understand this is not a top priority.

I appreciate the response, AGAWA, but I'm on the verge of using Sonore ISO2DVD to process our SACDs -- both stereo and multichannel -- to digital files...and I'm not sure how best to go about doing it.  We had some trouble getting the Sonore interface to work with our Oppo 105D, but, when it actually worked, we ended up with DSF files: not ISO. 

So the question is: Is it better to go directly to individual DSF files or, with a bit more effort, to go to one big ISO image file to [something else] to lossless FLAC? 

One thing's for sure, I don't want to do what some of these folks did and rip all of physical media to something that "pops."  I tend to listen to my music at very high levels, so popping or clicking sounds like something that could possibly damage our speakers.  In other words, it sounds an awful lot like clipping to me. 

Thanks again   

[MikeyFresh]

this a workaround only.
SACD players do not exhibit this "infamous click".
They simply mute before, in-between and after.
This could be implemented in JRiver , but I understand this is not a top priority.

The same is true for playback of .dsf files through a DAC, whether or not one hears any click in between tracks is a function of the playback software and it's settings, and the specific DAC's firmware. Many hear no tick or pop at all, their player software and DAC combo is properly muting and unmuting briefly in between tracks.

Some people using JRiver hear a small tick or click in between tracks with their DAC, while others do not. The same is true for Roon, or Audirvana. It really depends on the particular DAC in use.

[MikeyFresh]

I appreciate the response, AGAWA, but I'm on the verge of using Sonore ISO2DVD to process our SACDs -- both stereo and multichannel -- to digital files...and I'm not sure how best to go about doing it.  We had some trouble getting the Sonore interface to work with our Oppo 105D, but, when it actually worked, we ended up with DSF files: not ISO. 

So the question is: Is it better to go directly to individual DSF files or, with a bit more effort, to go to one big ISO image file to [something else] to lossless FLAC? 

One thing's for sure, I don't want to do what some of these folks did and rip all of physical media to something that "pops."  I tend to listen to my music at very high levels, so popping or clicking sounds like something that could possibly damage our speakers.  In other words, it sounds an awful lot like clipping to me. 

Thanks again 

That isn't really the question. The question is if you do a test rip to .dsf and play it back over your particular combination of player software and DAC, do you hear any click in between tracks? Further, if you don't hear it in between .dsf tracks, do you hear it if you then switch to play a PCM file? Those are the scenarios you should test, you might find you have no issue at all and this isn't a question of making the right choice upfront otherwise it's some big mistake.

You can then explore the player software settings to see if they can be altered to mitigate any potential click sound, and you can also choose to use the state-of-the-art SACDExtractGUI instead of Sonore's ISO2DSD, as the former is a superior software that allows for additional functions and settings such as padding-less DSF which might also help in mitigating the possibility of hearing any pop/click, depending on your player software and DAC combination.

There isn't any one size fits all answer to this question, it depends, and requires a bit of testing on your end to decide what is the best thing to do for your given setup.

I use JRiver as a DLNA/UPnP server, and either a Sonore microRendu, or Raspberry Pi/Moode endpoints, and there is no pop/click on .dsf track transitions with my DAC, but your mileage may vary, you have to test it and also check to see if your DAC potentially has a firmware update available that can help address that issue, iFi for one has had more than one firmware update over the years attempting to fix that problem with their DACs.

Lastly, if you elect to keep an ISO, and you are using software that can play an ISO (JRiver can), then there is no reason why you'd have to convert those to PCM in the form of FLAC files, I'm not sure where you got the idea that iso need to be converted to FLAC, they do not so long as your player software will actually play an ISO. The only limitation with ISOs is you can't append different metadata or album art to an ISO file like you can with DSF, though that too can sometimes be handled in the player software instead of embedding it in the file.

[Awesome Donkey]

If you convert DSD files (SACD ISO being split, DSF files, etc.) to PCM files (e.g. FLAC files), there is a chance you'll indeed encounter the issue with pops at track transitions, You might need to experiment with a couple albums (I suggest using an album where all the tracks segue into each other, e.g. Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon or Wish You Were Here albums) to test whether or not it happens for you.