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[currter]

Hi,

I am running Media Center 26 as I have not had a chance to upgrade,
I just want to know if the software can be used to rip CDs or convert
files to FLAC or ALAC like I have used dbPowerAmp since 2016?

Your software has so many options that it is a bit overwhelming to
choose anything or research things with the myriad of options
it supplies.

Well thank you.

I really just use your software (DLNA feature) in conjunction with Airfoil to distribute
audio beamed to it or a computer (Mac or Windows) running as a server
to simultaneously send or share the audio to different networked speaker systems
(AudioCast, ChromeCast, MusicCast for Yamaha, AirTV, etc) in my network.
For that purpose I am happy I invested in your software.

[RoderickGI]

I just want to know if the software can be used to rip CDs or convert
files to FLAC or ALAC like I have used dbPowerAmp since 2016?

Yes, MC can do all that.

Start here: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Ripping
Then follow the specific links in the More section down the bottom.

[currter]

Oh I see now...

I do see FLAC but I do not see ALAC, but that is no problem as long
as FLAC is supported. I am not sure if one can choose the 8 or 9 levels
of FLAC lossless compressions (including an uncompressed version that
dbPoweramp offers which is just the .WAV with a metadata wrapper -
same size or so of .wav).

Thank you.

[wer]

You can select the flac compression level in MC. Since you have MC, you should actually try it.

Selecting uncompressed flac would be foolish.

[RoderickGI]

I'm pretty sure ALAC is in the default installation. It is called "Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC)" in the CD Ripping Options. See image.

Other than a few people who want uncompressed FLAC, if you go that way, the recommended compression level of 6 seems to be the most common choice. There was a detailed thread discussing the pros and cons. Higher compression doesn't reduce file size much more, lower compression isn't necessary as being a lossless compression, the decompressed data is identical with all levels of compression. Level 0 is uncompressed I think. MC goes up to level 8. But stick with 6.

I use FLAC because it isn't proprietary, and is supported more broadly outside Apple products.

Good afternoon Wer. Direct as usual. 

[wer]

G'day, Rod!    Seems like you always post one of your lengthy illustrated tomes right after one of my short ones. I think you just like the contrast!

It might be worth mentioning that if currter lives in Appleworld, that is the one good reason for using ALAC, as Apple doesn't like FLAC.  Everywhere else, as you point out, FLAC is more widely implemented.  Both formats provide perfect quality, it's just a question of where you can play them.

[dtc]

MC does not provide uncompressed FLAC. Flac level 0 is still compressed quite a bit, whereas uncompressed flac has no compression.  MC will play uncompressed FLAC, since it has the full FLAC file structure, just without any of the compression techniques applied.  Most people believe that level 5 or 6 is probably as high as you need to go. Above that, there is little extra compression, at the expensive of what can be significant computer time to do the analysis.  Even level 0 provides something like 40% compression and 80% of the compression of level 5, depending on the source.

MC does not  use AccurateRip. The feeling is that MC's Secure Mode makes AccurateRip unnecessary.

[currter]

I agree with all of this...

I used the default for dbPowerAmp which was FLAC compression level 5.
I noticed that ALAC may be slightly larger than Level 5 of FLAC but
both file sizes are about the same.

Warning about using FLAC compression level 0 , I used that and I had
problems playing those files or inconsistent behavior in my Pioneer
AVH-4200NEX car stereo I installed. I initially chose level 0 because of
the conversion time was to be the quickest. Level 0 is unsupported I believe
or unsupported by the FLAC standards of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,and 8.
So I made a mistake in my initial statement about 9 levels dbpoweramp offered
for FLAC. Including level 0 and uncompressed along with the standard
FLAC levels 1 through 8 that would make 10 choices.
I had forgotten about 0.

I had to convert all of those Level 0 FLAC to level 5 and / or uncompressed
FLAC for the master source of audio files.  I eventually converted them to
FLAC level 8 and I use those for the car now.

Thank you again... I would ask another question about how or if
JRiver Media Center version 26 or 27 can do the same thing as
iTunes to distribute or send audio to various networked speaker systems
like how I use Airfoil with JR Media Center now so I can just use
only one software package and not 2.  I was playing with something called
zone or the zones feature, but I could not get it to work the way I wanted.
I discussed it before last year... but for now
I just use the DLNA, Rendering feature for JR Media Center and then
use Airfoil to choose the speakers I want to send audio to or share audio.
I then use a remote device (Android phone, Fiio, tablet, etc) that has
access to the music I want to play and beam or send that audio to
the computer (A Mac typically) running JR Media Center which is the source in Airfoil
and it in turn sends that audio to multiple networked speakers on the network.
--- I make things too complicated but it works for me!
I am thinking JR Media Center should be able to do all that and I can avoid
using Airfoil in the middle.
I would cite iTunes... iTunes on a real mac computer (not from an iPhone) can
send audio played through or from it to multiple networked speaker (clicking or
checking the speakers it can see on the network) but iTunes cannot be used
as a renderer or has that DLNA function so I believe so I avoid iTunes for this...
Windows Media Center can do what I want but the audio quality is not ideal or
it sounds terrible as if it is using MP3 when I want to use lossless or uncompressed
audio streaming over Wi-Fi network 5GHz band

Thank you.

[currter]

On the contrary, I do not live in Appleworld.
I only use Mac to run your software as a server to distribute
audio.
I use both systems, Mac and Windows when needed.
I use FLAC more than ALAC... I just like to keep it around in case I do have to
use iTunes or something that uses .m4a files or whatever it is.

I use FLAC most of the time and have FLAC files on most of my devices
such as Fiio Music player, for the car stereo (ALAC is not supported)
Pioneer AVH-4200NEX takes FLAC and/or WAV files (but WAV files do
not have metadata or album art associated with them like FLAC does).

So I have to disagree with the person who said I am in Appleworld for
Audio files and ALAC.  Not true...I am versatile with regard to all this.

MC does not provide uncompressed FLAC. Flac level 0 is still compressed quite a bit, whereas uncompressed flac has no compression.  MC will play uncompressed FLAC, since it has the full FLAC file structure, just without any of the compression techniques applied.  Most people believe that level 5 or 6 is probably as high as you need to go. Above that, there is little extra compression, at the expensive of what can be significant computer time to do the analysis.  Even level 0 provides something like 40% compression and 80% of the compression of level 5, depending on the source.

MC does not  use AccurateRip. The feeling is that MC's Secure Mode makes AccurateRip unnecessary.

[wer]

So I have to disagree with the person who said I am in Appleworld for
Audio files and ALAC.  Not true...

If you read my post, you'll see I did not say that. I said IF you did, you would have a need for ALAC over FLAC. 

[dtc]

I agree with all of this...



Warning about using FLAC compression level 0 , I used that and I had
problems playing those files or inconsistent behavior in my Pioneer
AVH-4200NEX car stereo I installed. I initially chose level 0 because of
the conversion time was to be the quickest. Level 0 is unsupported I believe
or unsupported by the FLAC standards of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,and 8.
So I made a mistake in my initial statement about 9 levels dbpoweramp offered
for FLAC. Including level 0 and uncompressed along with the standard
FLAC levels 1 through 8 that would make 10 choices.
I had forgotten about 0.

Compression level 0 is a standard part of most implantations. If your device did not support playing it, then I would say that device was the outlier.  Uncompressed is not a common format, with dBpoweramp the only general purpose software that I know of that provides users with this option.  But most software should be able to read and play it.

[currter]

Yes my $470 (at the time bought in 2016) Pioneer AVH-4200NEX
stereo DVD radio USB Bluetooth etc receiver or unit did not like
FLAC level 0 files.  They would play but then I would experience
delays or the music would stop... after doing some research
I learned that the device would only support FLAC level 1 through 8
and even uncompressed (same as WAV in size).
So now I only use FLAC level 5 or 8 and .WAV and even uncompressed
FLAC... mainly level 8 as those generate the smallest sized files
for more music on the USB storage devices.

I wonder if I should delete this thread as there seemed to be some
misunderstanding and I am not too good at navigating this forum
as I may have responded to someone else's comment.

To set the record straight, I use FLAC more than ALAC. I Just
keep ALAC around in the event I do use iTunes which is rare.
I read that FLAC more universally accepted with car stereos along
with .WAV.
I use your software on a MAC (but can use Windows as I bought the
enterprise license for both operating systems) along with Airfoil to
play music on different/various speaker systems in my network.
Maybe one day I will learn how to set up speaker zones and can do
all of this using your software only without Airfoil.

I use a device to send/beam the music to a computer running JR River Media
Center in rendering mode I think or maybe the DLNA set...
next I use Airfoil with your software as a source of audio input to send the
audio distributed to various speaker renderers in my network such as
Chromecast audio, AudioCast, Linksys RE6500 audio port, Yamaha R-N803 MusicCast,
any networked device in a rendering mode to receive audio, Apple AirportExpress,
AirTV, etc..
I use it to share the audio I am listening to on my Yamaha system with speakers
I have outside my home in the front and back that are connected to one of the
other renderers.
Maybe your software can do all that like iTunes can select different audio systems
to play to. If you can explain that to me or help me figure that out throughout your
complex software, that would be great. Otherwise, I am happy with how I am doing
it successfully even right now.


All the best.
 
Thank you.

[dtc]

No problem. You have been clear about your concerns. We have just added some detail for clarification. In fact, that your Pioneer did not play flac 0 is interesting, as I expect any good flac implementation to support it and Pioneer is certainly a reputable company. So, thanks for that information.

[currter]

let me clarify,

for me, Flac level 0 did play in the Pioneer stereo but after
so many songs, it was like things got corrupted and it would
get stuck or hang and not play subsequent songs.
I thought is was due to some . or hidden files or .DS store files
or some weird files were on the storage devices.
Even after clearing all of the "corrupted" files, I had the same
behavior of a few songs playing then the unit would not respond.

So after discussing this behavior with Pioneer, the only thing
Pioneer said is it would ONLY support FLAC Levels 1 through 8
and was not sure about 0.
So I acquiesced and took all of the FLAC level 0 files and converted
them to Uncompressed FLAC as a master and after painstakingly
examining to make sure ALL of the files got converted, I converted
to FLAC Level 5. 5 worked consistently on the stereo and later
I decided to settle for level 8  to get more files on the USB
SSD drives (my entire 1300 CD collection essentially and then some)
across 2 SSD USB drives due to some limitations of the Pioneer
stereo (file limit per USB of 15,000 songs).

Well that is all , I have exhausted this topic... Keep up the good work.
Maybe I may upgrade to Media Center 27 or just wait until 28 or … 30
for the next upgrade purchase as I am satisfied with 26.

Thank you.

[JimH]

Don't give up.  I hope you're learning something and don't worry if you're not always understood.  Just post corrections.

Uncompressed FLAC is probably a waste of space.  Some audio forums may tell you that WAV or similar will sound better, but it won't.  What the playback device sees when you play compressed FLAC or uncompressed FLAC is identical.

[currter]

I have lots of multi-terabyte hard drives, space is not of concern to me.
I could have about six 3 TB hard drives and some 4TB and a 5TB
and some 1 , 2 TB SSD drives... I am overwhelmed. I have a WD Passport
Wi-FI 3TB hard drive...

My personal library of 1300 CDs may take up about 900 GBs of space
with just .wav … with FLAC lossless compression level 5 it is about
550 GBs total space.

I keep the Flac Uncompressed of the songs as a kind of master copy and keep it
because it has all of the metadata, album art information embedded in the FLAC
files. (when I buy new CDs to add to my collection, I use the software to convert
the CD to FLAC uncompressed first to add to the master copy then later convert to
level 8 , 5 to use for the car stereo or for the phone where I have a 1 TB microsd card)…

 I then used that to convert to FLAC LEVEL 5, 8 to put on storage devices
for the car stereo. I also have put on storage devices for network storage USB
connection for the Asus RTAC routers in my home in some AiMesh network
(each router has 2 USB ports for storage devices .

---of course I was using dbPoweramp (Sept 2016) before discovering JRiver Media Center
and have paid for both.

Yes I am aware that all formats are lossless so you can get back the original .WAV
from each of the FLAC levels of compression and of course the uncompressed
is essentially not compressed .wav with the flac wrapper around it (meta data preserved).
I just even learned that .WAV can contain the metadata but I did a test and the album
art associated with .WAV files do not appear on the car stereo display I invested in--
so I use FLAC level 8 there (some songs on a Samsung 500 GB SSD and the rest
on a 250 GB Samsung SSD to contain my entire music library and even some from a
cousin's library of CDs which I have on a 256 GB Samsung microsd card ).
Pioneer AVH-4200NEX has 2 USB ports and a microSD card slot... DVD drive... and lots
of other things for fun music listening...(aux port, Bluetooth, RCA inputs … and more )…
I need to stop typing now... take care.

[JimH]

I keep the Flac Uncompressed of the songs as a kind of master and keep it
because it has all of the metadata, album art information embedded in the FLAC
files.

So does ordinary FLAC and it's a lot better supported in software.

I then used that to convert to FLAC LEVEL 5, 8 to put on storage devices
for the car stereo.

You're best off to use the defaults for FLAC compression.  You can only gain a few percent savings in size by changing them, and it costs some CPU power to decode them.

I also have put on storage devices for network storage USB
connection for the Asus RTAC routers in my home in some AiMesh network
(each router has 2 USB ports for storage devices .

Connecting a drive to a USB router can often cause problems.  It's not recommended.

Sounds like you're making progress.

[currter]

so far I have no problems and if it does, I will just replace the drive...
or invoke the warranty of the drive like Samsung has a 5 year or 10 year
warranty on its products maybe 3 year warranty....
Just get a new one... but so far so good.

[wer]

Just in the interests of trying to help you, I suggest that going forward, you just adopt FLAC level 5 (or 8; it doesn't matter) as your archival format.  All you are doing by forcing yourself through the step of converting from FLAC-uncompressed to FLAC-5 is wasting your time. If you just keep the music in flac5, you won't need to convert it.  Converting from level 5 to 8 saves you less than 1% of your space.  You're making things harder on yourself than necessary for no benefit.  But it's your time to waste.   Enjoy the music...

[dtc]

So does ordinary FLAC and it's a lot better supported in software.You're best off to use the defaults for FLAC compression.  You can only gain a few percent savings in size by changing them, and it costs some CPU power to decode them.Connecting a drive to a USB router can often cause problems.  It's not recommended.

Sounds like you're making progress.

One of the advantages of FLAC is that there is not much overhead in decoding it and there are only small differences in CPU usage for decoding increasing compression level.  There should be very little CPU difference in decoding level 5 versus level 8. The extra CPU cycles mainly come in the compression stage.

Check out the table in the Wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC

[currter]

Sure sure,

With the pandemic and other things, no places to go, there
is plenty of time to waste. 

It is not like I do this all the time converting files.
Maybe in September 2016 I took about 4 days to convert all
1300 CDs to Flac Level 0... then over time months later
when I learned that 0 was not working well in Pioneer Stereo...
I used that other software to do a batch conversion of
everything to uncompressed just as a master copy.
That may have taken a day or 2 ? after the verification process.
Then I decided to continue to do batch conversion to other
levels of 5 and 8.. what i do is run it , go out shopping, dining,
whatever then come back to it when it is completed so
I never regarded it as "wasting" my time as I had other things
to do  while the computer running on 7 cores did all the
conversions.  I would say the job was done within 1 to 2 days?
I was probably talking on the phone with family and friends
and going to the buffet while the computer (Asus ) using its
7 cores did all the work.

Anyway, could we address my other concern or do I need to post
another topic...?
The concern is how to simulate using only JRiver Media Center software
to do what I use Airfoil for to send audio sent to the computer running
your software to other speakers networked in my LAN?
iTunes can do this where one can play music on it and send that audio
to multiple rendered speaker systems within one's network.

Does JRiver Media Center make some use of Zones to set up an
aggregation of available networked speakers and then send the audio/music
to that group of networked speakers?

So basically I have a remote device with access to music either on
an internal storage (1TB microsd for example ) or DLNA accessed
networked drive like from USB storage connected to router , then
I play the audio using software like Neutron Music Player or
BubblePNP (or even PowerAmp, HiFI Cast, DoubleTwist ) to
beam that audio to the computer running your software ...
then Airfoil sends that audio to a selected list of networked speaker
systems where your software is the source input.
Your software is great on the Mac computers I have
(MacMini, MacbookPro, iMac ) as it sets the computer up
as a renderer or the option section to use computer to share
media and set up DLNA part is checked. This makes
the computer open to send or play audio to or through it
like how Windows Media Player works on Windows computers.
This is the reason why I purchased your software did the
best job for Mac computers.

I would like to take Airfoil out of the loop and just use your software
alone if that is possible.

As far as wasting time... the hard work has been done maybe
years ago... now when I get a trickle of CDs here and there,
the process of conversion is fairly quick taking up a few minutes
of my time perhaps while I had lunch at a college campus .
No big deal , but thank you for your concerns to help me not
waste my time more as I am probably doing such now?.

[RoderickGI]

First, all except JimH in this thread are just users like you. So we don't know all the functionality, and we don't have the same or similar equipment to you, so we can't test exactly what you want to do.

We can, however, give general advice. My first bit of advice on your second question is to create a thread just for it, and concisely describe the equipment you are using, and restate the configuration you want.

For example, I don't think you have mentioned the Brand and Model of your network speakers, so we can't comment on whether they would work. MC would use DLNA to send audio to those speakers, so they need to be capable of running as DLNA Renderers, and decent Renderers at that. Some DLNA Renderer implementations are quite poor.

Also, you need to take note such as that given by JimH in Reply #16. It sounds like you have USB drives attached to a router, and are running a DLNA Server on the router, and you have MC connecting to that DLNA Server to load its Library. That is not the best configuration for two reasons.
1) Routers that support USB attached drives generally do not do that very well. They tend to be slow and unreliable. Slow may be okay, although I've seen some just have long pauses in serving files, which would interrupt music playback. Unreliable is not good. Routers are best at doing what they were designed for; routing. They don't have the most powerful processors, and they don't multitask other functions very well. At least in my experience. So it is best to attach your USB drive to an actual PC.
2) It is best to have MC connect to all drives using a URI or assigned drive letter, and import files into the Library that way. If you are running a DLNA Server on the router, serving files from the USB attached drives, and then connecting MC to that DLNA Server to import files, you are adding a layer to the processing, and limiting MC's capabilities. Unless you really need a DLNA Server with these files to be running when a PC isn't running, then at the least, turn off the DLNA Server on the router and import files from the USB attached drive directly, even if you leave them connected to the router. MC will then run as the only DLNA Server on your network.

So, the above are a few examples of the things that need to be considered for your question. There are more.
Yes, you would use Zones in MC. You would also Link those Zones together if you want to play to them all at once. The music may not be synchronised precisely if you do that. This requires discussion. Other people do use Airfoil or similar to achieve what you want, because of their specific requirements.

So, start that new thread and summarise what you have, and what you want. I know, again. But we don't want to read through a whole thread to tease out the issues, even though we will probably have to. Remember, unlike my posts, be CONCISE.

[wer]

Remember, unlike my posts, be CONCISE.

Even more importantly, be PRECISE.  We deal all the time with users that can't (or won't) accurately and specifically describe what they have done and what they are trying to do. And often they compound the problem by using incorrect or ambiguous terminology.

That makes it very hard to figure out the nature of the problem and of their request.  And since as Rod says, since most of the people actually providing help are just users, and not JRiver employees, that's not conducive to the poster's desire to get a good answer.

Be concise, be precise, clear, accurate and specific. Screenshots go a long way. If a helper asks a question to clarify, answer it. If advice is given, try it.  All these things, along with what Rod said, will greatly help anyone trying to get good answers here. There are some extremely knowledgeable people on this forum.

Rod, as he himself is acknowledging, sometimes like to make quite lengthy posts. But the thing is, he's spending all that time out of the goodness of his heart because he wants to help; because he's not an employee either, just another user.

[currter]

I thought I did list several speaker or networked audio systems
I use, maybe you  did not read them (indifference of incompetence?).

DLNA or renderers

I mentioned
Yamaha R-N803
ChromecastAudio
AirportExpress (Apple)
AudioCast
Naxa Soundbar
AirTV
Linksys RE6500 (audio jack on it) (output) (Range extender with audio output jack)

I did not mention or should have included some networked
TVs I have like
SonyBravia 4K
Chromecast Ultra
AppleTV

and others like devices (phones, computers )
that may run Airfoil Satellite or are in some type
of rendering mode using Neutron MP or BubblePNP

and I will just continue to use Airfoil along with JR Media Center
on the MacMini…

I was just trying to get input how to use your software like
Airfoil to click on multiple speaker systems so I can beam
audio to the computer (Mac or Windows) running JR Media Center
and it (not Airfoil) will send the audio to various networked
speaker systems aforementioned to my selection and choosing.

My reasoning is mainly for when I use a windows computer because
Airfoil is a bit flaky on Windows and no longer supported or updated
there. I can get it to work but there is always some delay or the
software stalls and not as responsive to changes I may want to make
in selecting speakers.

For Mac (MacMini in particular) everything works fine.

As far as using networked drives or USB drives connected to routers
and DLNA, I do not have problems or delays. Things work fine for
me there and that is just another alternative way of sharing music
within my network to play on those speaker systems using software
like NeutronMP, BubblePNP* works the better.
There is also VLC...but BubblePNP works the best out of these
3 on both ends of accessing networked drives with music and
beaming that or audio on my hand-held devices to the computer
running JR Media Center and using Airfoil to select which and all
speakers to receive the audio.
So basically , what music I listen to on my big Yamaha system
can be shared on speakers systems of AudioCast or Linksys RE6500 that are
connected to speakers on my patio and on my front porch.

Just make JR Media Center work like or have functionality like
Airfoil as I believe there is potential to do so -- like with the
Zone or speaker zones....

Put a list of speakers systems in a zone and send, beam audio
to that zone?

Thank you, bye!