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[Music_Man]

This question regards Video files.  Upon import, how can I be sure JRiver won't overwrite any of my tags? 

I import to the Library using the: "Import A Single Folder" option. 

As the attached screen shot depicts:
I've also Unchecked all Auto Importing and Unchecked Get Movie & TV Info.

Is there anything else I need to do to keep my tagging as is? 

As long as I import using the Single Folder method and keep "Get Movie & TV info" Unchecked, can I Check "Run Auto Import in background" and "Add Folders you would like the program to watch" and NOT be concerned with any tags being overwritten?

[wer]

You don't mean "scraping", that's not what that word means. But I understand you don't want the tags in the files modified or overwritten.

You're on the wrong track in your screenshot above.  This is the setting you're looking for:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Update_Tags_When_File_Info_Changes

Turn it off. (Uncheck it). That will disable writing to the media files.

However, you might want to know that MC, generally speaking, does not write tags to the video files themselves, for two reasons: video files can be huge, so it could take a long time, and most video file formats don't robustly support tagging.  Instead, MC writes video tags to sidecar files. These are small, proprietary files that sit next to the video file, just to hold tags.

There is a search box in the MC options dialog. You can use it to search for a word like sidecar, to find options related to that word.

Be advised, I do not recommend disabling writing of tag info out to the media/sidecar files. If you disable that functionality, and you lose your MC library, you also lose all your metadata. By allowing metadata to be written to the media/sidecar files, if you lose or corrupt your library, the metadata still exists in the files, and can be retrieved. The metadata would also follow the files if you copy them to another computer and import them into a different library.  So you've been cautioned, but you must suit yourself.

[Music_Man]

First, thanks for the assistance wer!  I apologize for my erroneous use of Scraping term.  I suppose that is when file information is culled from internet sites as opposed to MC making File Field changes based on Filename information.

In any case, I remain somewhat confused regarding attaining my goal.  I don't want to again re-do the tagging I've already done.

What I Did:
Using MC, I manually changed data in the following fields:  Season and Episode (among others).
I took the hard drive containing these files and connected it to another PC.  I did an Import on the folder with the settings I initially posted.  Unfortunately, I found that the Season and Episode fields were changed.  This was seemingly done automatically by MC to comport with the Season and Episode (e.g. S__E__) data contained in the filename. 

Some of the Season and Episode information in my Filenames is correct, but much of it is incorrect.  This is my reason for manually changing the Season & Episode tagging information.  And then why I want the tagging information to remain static – i.e. UnChanged by MC when or if, the files are re-Imported (NOT by using a Library Restore function, if that makes a difference).

What I Want Done:
I understand that I can Toggle Save Tag Information On & Off in the Edit menu.  Does this affect both: 1) the manual tagging that I’m doing within MC and Then 2) when the Files are Imported? That is, do I turn it ON when I want to manually tag files and save the information and then turn it OFF when I am Importing files?

I also understand that I can affect the saving of Tag information by doing so at a more micro (Field) level.  This is done by Toggling Off/On store tags in files by going to: The Library Field and setting it to Store or Not Store tags in files.  As the link described, this is done by:  Going to the Library Field Manager (under Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields), select a field in the list, press the Edit button, and Check or Uncheck Store in file tags.

In my desire to prevent MC from changing my Season and Episode Tags, is the Edit Menu, Tagging Toggle the only area I need to be concerned with?  Or do I have to access the Library Field level as explained above?  And/or are there other areas within MC that I have to turn On or Off?  What exactly has to be done to keep MC from changing a given File’s Season and Episode (or for any other Field’s) information when the File is Imported?  Whatever those action(s) are, does this action differ when a Library Restore is done, verses a direct File Import from a Folder via Windows 10?

[glynor]

Be advised, I do not recommend disabling writing of tag info out to the media/sidecar files. If you disable that functionality, and you lose your MC library, you also lose all your metadata. By allowing metadata to be written to the media/sidecar files, if you lose or corrupt your library, the metadata still exists in the files, and can be retrieved. The metadata would also follow the files if you copy them to another computer and import them into a different library.  So you've been cautioned, but you must suit yourself.

+1 to all that.

[glynor]

Using MC, I manually changed data in the following fields:  Season and Episode (among others).
I took the hard drive containing these files and connected it to another PC.  I did an Import on the folder with the settings I initially posted.  Unfortunately, I found that the Season and Episode fields were changed.  This was seemingly done automatically by MC to comport with the Season and Episode (e.g. S__E__) data contained in the filename. 

That is Carnac: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Carnac

It isn't changing the tags, it is parsing them out of the filenames. At import, Carnac tries to pull metadata out of the filenames if they contain a pattern it recognizes. Extracting Season and Episode numbers only happens for video files that MC determines are likely to be [Media Sub Type]=TV Show (though that decision, being automated, isn't perfect). If it thinks the files are Movies or Home Video, then it uses different patterns.

If you DO use the Sidecars that wer mentioned above, and move those over with the video files themselves to the separate computer, then the sidecars will "win" and MC will import the files with that metadata, rather than what Carnac decides to use.

That's a perfect example of why I said +1 above.

In any case, it doesn't just happen all the time. Carnac only runs when a file is first imported, not continuously.

[glynor]

It is worth noting as well, if you have a pattern in your filenames that you know ahead of time (for "future files") and Carnac doesn't handle them properly, you can override any of Carnac's decisions automatically at import using Tag on Import rules: https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tag_on_Import

Or, if you think that it might be a commonly-used filename pattern that others would benefit from, post it here on Interact, explain what data is contained in the filename and how it should be imported, and ask for Carnac to be updated with the new pattern.

They've added things to Carnac many times in the past (which is why it isn't practical to maintain a full list of what it does).

[Music_Man]

glynor, thanks for your help.  Here in this post and elsewhere, it has been invaluable.  Similarly, wer's help has been equally invaluable.  I learned a lot from both of you and your various postings.  This aided my tagging efforts and helped me create a Theater View more to my liking.

Getting back to Carnac and this post’s topic:
I’m not a fan of programming such as Carnac’s, running unknowingly in the background.  When Carnac is helpful, it is and when it isn’t (as I found), it can be destructive as far as the user’s needs and wants are concerned.  The unknowing and difficult to control (turn it OFF) part is my concern! 

Before moving my files via the HD (Hard Drive) on which I had saved my TAG changes (which prompted this post), I should have asked this question before assuming and finding that Carnac inserted data where I wouldn’t have wanted it to!! 
 
As you mentioned, I understand Carnac doesn’t change, it parses from existing file data – but and this is a big BUT, I didn’t want it to parse and I DON’T want it doing so in the future unless I specifically WANT IT to do so. 

Which brings up the question of how do I turn Carnac OFF as in DEAD and keep it that way, until the time that I may want to resurrect it and turn it back ON again?  (Which unless I’m wrong, once files are imported and Carnac runs, it doesn’t run again until files that Carnac hasn’t seen, are Imported.  Is that true?)

I realize that by Importing, modifying Tags and then Clearing that Library of files multiple times over multiple files, I wasn’t using MC as it was designed.  I’m sure this didn’t help matters.  In any case, “sidecar” writing has never been turned off.

At any rate, after days of tag manipulation and grooming, I again have my thousands of video files tagged as I want.  The question is:  how can I be CERTAIN that my tags remain as they are (blank, filled or otherwise) – that Carnac or something else within MC will cause insertions, deletions (e.g. changes) in ANY of my file’s tag Fields -- when I move them to another hard drive and Import them via MC on another computer?

How can I be certain Carnac is OFF when I Import these files on a 2nd. PC?  I plan on making the file copying move in the coming weeks.  At that time, the video files will be on 2-PC’s.  One PC is upstairs, which is where the files now reside.  The 2nd. PC will be downstairs.  I will copy my files from one HD to a second one, in order to have the same copies on two different PC’s.

After moving from MC 27 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,127494.0.html) back to 26, 26 is installed on both PC’s.
MC 26 on the 2ND. PC has no library because I deleted it, when I removed the HD containing it. 

When I install the new HD on the 2nd PC, how can I be sure that Carnac is DEAD?  Simply, I don’t want, nor need Carnac’s logic run against the files on this HD. I want Carnac to be OFF – as in DEAD OFF -- when I run MC 26 Import on the new HD’s files.  Before I begin the Import process, what must I toggle/change within MC 26 to be sure that Carnac is OFF?

[syndromeofadown]

Apologies if this has nothing to with your problem.

I have had issues with my tags getting overwritten by the embedded tags in mkv files. I believe it happened on re-import not the initial import. Mostly it happened with the name field, so my episode numbers were left alone but the name that was scraped got overwritten with the value makemkv added with its default settings. The solution for me was to only use tag on import on the initial import, but not again when moving files around. It used to not be an issue but has been for a while now.

I would not be opposed an option to completely disable Carnac and the reading of embedded video tags. I use expressions to parse all my names, seasons, episodes, etc from the file names, so there is nothing positive that comes from those features. But at the same time they don't bother me in the slightest either.

[glynor]

Embedded tags (and sidecar tags) always win when importing new files, so two things:

I have had issues with my tags getting overwritten by the embedded tags in mkv files. I believe it happened on re-import not the initial import. Mostly it happened with the name field, so my episode numbers were left alone but the name that was scraped got overwritten with the value makemkv added with its default settings.

Yes. This happens to me too, but it isn't overriding your tags (because, by definition, your tags cannot yet exist at import), it overrides Carnac. Embedded/sidecar tags always win.

I saw someone put a request in the Too Easy thread (perhaps you) to ignore embedded video tags at import. I don't think that's quite the way to do it because how would it know if the embedded tags are good (from being previously imported in another copy of MC) or bad (directly from MakeMKV or Handbrake)? Maybe something could be done, though, if the [Name] tag matches the [Filename] then you ignore it?

(Which unless I’m wrong, once files are imported and Carnac runs, it doesn’t run again until files that Carnac hasn’t seen, are Imported.  Is that true?)

Correct. Carnac is part of Auto-Import. It only happens during Auto-Import on newly imported files. I do not believe there is a way to turn it off aside from not using Auto-Import, but I could be wrong.

I realize that by Importing, modifying Tags and then Clearing that Library of files multiple times over multiple files, I wasn’t using MC as it was designed.  I’m sure this didn’t help matters.  In any case, “sidecar” writing has never been turned off.

At any rate, after days of tag manipulation and grooming, I again have my thousands of video files tagged as I want.  The question is:  how can I be CERTAIN that my tags remain as they are (blank, filled or otherwise) – that Carnac or something else within MC will cause insertions, deletions (e.g. changes) in ANY of my file’s tag Fields -- when I move them to another hard drive and Import them via MC on another computer?

Three things:

1. Make sure that tag writing is enabled for the fields you care about under Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields. Many, but not all, fields Save to File Tags. But you can turn it on for individual fields as needed.

2. Select all files and do right-click > Library Tools > Update Tags from Library. This will go through and force MC to write out all of the tags to the embedded tags (where supported) and sidecar XML files (where not).

3. Make sure Tools > Options > General > Importing & Tagging: Update tags when file info changes and Save in Sidecars are enabled. You said yes to at least the latter, but just make sure they're there physically on the disks (and you can spot-check a few in notepad to double-check if you're paranoid).  Then, if you move them to a different computer, make sure the sidecars move along with them.

Then, it doesn't matter what Carnac does during Auto-Import, because embedded tags always win. Carnac only does its thing on fields that otherwise would only have "default" data.

[Music_Man]

I have had issues with my tags getting overwritten by the embedded tags in mkv files. I believe it happened on re-import not the initial import. Mostly it happened with the name field, so my episode numbers were left alone but the name that was scraped got overwritten with the value makemkv added with its default settings. The solution for me was to only use tag on import on the initial import, but not again when moving files around. It used to not be an issue but has been for a while now.

Thanks "syndromeofadown", this may have something to do with what I experienced.  I do also believe I had a few Name and Genre changes, but I can't be sure.  Unfortunately, some of my Filenames contain accurate season and episode numbering, but most do NOT.  I have too many filenames to change to get them correct, so I made sure tagging was as I desired, for what I wanted my Theater View to be.  So, being sure that all tags (containing data or otherwise) stay static when moving files, is of paramount importance!

Three things:

1. Make sure that tag writing is enabled for the fields you care about under Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields. Many, but not all, fields Save to File Tags. But you can turn it on for individual fields as needed.

2. Select all files and do right-click > Library Tools > Update Tags from Library. This will go through and force MC to write out all of the tags to the embedded tags (where supported) and sidecar XML files (where not).

3. Make sure Tools > Options > General > Importing & Tagging: Update tags when file info changes and Save in Sidecars are enabled. You said yes to at least the latter, but just make sure they're there physically on the disks (and you can spot-check a few in notepad to double-check if you're paranoid).  Then, if you move them to a different computer, make sure the sidecars move along with them.

Then, it doesn't matter what Carnac does during Auto-Import, because embedded tags always win. Carnac only does its thing on fields that otherwise would only have "default" data.

Thanks "glynor", your three (3) points are understood and appreciated!   

Question:
Please advise if I'm thinking correctly.  Before copying my files to another hard drive, to be safe, it would seem that I should perform the 3 things you mentioned above.  Is that true?

Discussion:
Including MC created "sidecar" files, the Video files I will be copying to another hard drive, will have been Imported into MC 26 on my 1st. computer.  A library was created on that computer from those files.  After that import, is when I noticed that some tags were not as I had left them.  I then modified the tags to suit my needs.  After the files are copied to the hard drive, I plan to Import them into MC 26 on the 2nd computer.  26 is installed on the 2nd computer, but its library's have been deleted.

Question:
On the 2nd. PC, would there be any benefit to completely Uninstalling MC 26 and Re-Installing it to get things off to a fresh start?  Although the Libraries have been Cleared, the 26 installation has had Libraries Imported to it (if that matters).

My Plan Is:
1] Perform your above 3-things on the 1st. PC (where the files & tags as I want them reside)
2] Backup 26 and its library on the 1st. computer 
3] Copy the Backup file to the hard drive I'm copying my files
4] Use the Backup file to Restore it on the 2nd. PC.
5] Import the files from PC 1 to PC 2

Questions:
Should the Backup file be placed in a specific location on the 2nd PC's installation of 26, say a specific folder within 26? 
Will #4 (above) do the file Import for me? 

Last 2 Questions:
The files/library I will be Importing on the 2nd. PC's installation of 26, have obviously already been Imported to 26 (but on a different PC/the 1st PC). 

Because the files have already been Imported (but on a different PC & 26), will that keep Carnac from again kicking-off on the 2nd PC?  If so, then it would appear that I can be doubly assured that all my file's tags will remain as they are.  Is that true?
     

[wer]

Gylnor has been giving you good advice.  Carnac doesn't change or overwrite your tags, because Carnac doesn't overwrite existing tags. If you have proof that it does, produce it, because that would be a bug they need to fix. But I haven't seen Carnac do that.

You talk about preserving your edited video tags when you move files to a new machine, but then they're "changed by Carnac".  How are you transferring your video tags?  There are only two ways: in the video files themselves (few tags are supported this way) or in the sidecar files.  Sidecar would be the right way.

Follow these rules:
-Make sure the tags you want are written to the sidecar file.
-Make sure the sidecar file is copied to the new pc, IN THE SAME FOLDER AS THE VIDEO FILE.
-Edit the sidecar file so that the path it contains pointing to its video file matches the NEW PATH on the new pc where the video file actually is.

If you do these things, MC will respect your tags.

Some of the Season and Episode information in my Filenames is correct, but much of it is incorrect. 

And this is your problem. You claim Carnac is inserting incorrect info. Where is it getting it? From the filename. So, rename your files. Get the incorrect garbage out of there. Don't keep preserving it. Replace it with correct info, and there there will be no wrong info for Carnac to read.

After you have tagged your files in MC, use RMCF to rename the files according to their new tags, before you copy them to the new PC.

It's very simple. Make sure MC on the new PC has access to the correct tag info, and that it doesn't see incorrect info in the filename.

[Music_Man]

Quote from: Music_Man on November 28, 2020, 01:27:25 pm

    Some of the Season and Episode information in my Filenames is correct, but much of it is incorrect.


And this is your problem. You claim Carnac is inserting incorrect info. Where is it getting it? From the filename. So, rename your files. Get the incorrect garbage out of there. Don't keep preserving it. Replace it with correct info, and there there will be no wrong info for Carnac to read.

After you have tagged your files in MC, use RMCF to rename the files according to their new tags, before you copy them to the new PC.

It's very simple. Make sure MC on the new PC has access to the correct tag info, and that it doesn't see incorrect info in the filename.

wer, thanks for this and your other assistance.  However, I strongly disagree with programming that is meant to help, when in some instances, it does the opposite without notice, or a user's yay or nay acknowledgement. 

MC is so darn malleable and rightfully so, that it can be programmed to do just about anything, which is virtually limited only by the user’s technical knowledge and capability.  Yet Carnac is a given and a constant, unstoppable and untamable without huge amounts of in-depth knowledge -- Huh and Why!?! 

Seeing incorrect information is a MC issue, not its user's.  The seeing part is foisted upon its users without notice and without their acquiescence!!  The logic or the point in that assumption and intrusion is neither understandable nor defensible; especially when the end user is a paying customer! 

If Carnac's purpose is to help; then it would help if it could be permanently disengaged and energized only when the user wants, not automatically to run as its programming dictates!!!  My garbage is my garbage and my treasure if I desire it to be, not MC's property to partially clean or clear!   

Users should be able to name their files and everything else as they choose and MC's programming should respect that; not fill-in the blanks or insert something other than what the user knows about or wants!  Forcing Carnac onto a client’s data whether that intrusion is wanted or not, is the problem, not a user's file naming conventions, or anything else contained in a user’s data!     

I will obviously try the workarounds suggested and appreciate the suggestions.  But I abhor the easy ability to control something that should be optional, rather than a mandatory requisite, like it, want it, or not.         

[syndromeofadown]

I move video files around regularly, especially lately as I am upgrading most the drives in my server/htpc. Other than the issue/solution I noted earlier I have literally zero issues with tags being overwritten or lost. Before I move videos, I select them then 'update tags from library'. That makes sure that the sidecars have all the fields written to them. This should take care of step one in wer's instructions.

Follow these rules:
-Make sure the tags you want are written to the sidecar file.
-Make sure the sidecar file is copied to the new pc, IN THE SAME FOLDER AS THE VIDEO FILE.
-Edit the sidecar file so that the path it contains pointing to its video file matches the NEW PATH on the new pc where the video file actually is.

As for the third step, I have never had to do that. I just move files then re-import (with no tag on import rules applied).

Good luck

[wer]

Music Man, I know you're frustrated, but I think you missed the main point of my post.  Your bit about "if I have bad data it's my right to preserve it" is frankly unconvincing when the entirety of your post is "I corrected this bad data I didn't want and my changes were lost!" So I would advise you to abandon that line of debate.  Your whole argument about Carnac behaving badly falls apart when the facts are taken into account. You assert Carnac overwrites and ignores the tagging information you have provided.  But consider these facts:

1. On the FIRST machine, when you import for the first time, you have as yet provided no tagging information. You are doing that AFTER you import on the first machine.  So you have no valid complaint about Carnac on the first machine. You just don't.

2. It is only on the SECOND machine that your tags should come into play. If Carnac is ignoring or overwriting the tags you provide on the second machine, then that would be a bug. Present some proof please.  But here's the part I think you missed about my post:

You talk about preserving your edited video tags when you move files to a new machine, but then they're "changed by Carnac".  How are you transferring your video tags?  There are only two ways: in the video files themselves (few tags are supported this way) or in the sidecar files.  Sidecar would be the right way.

You have not addressed this.  How are you transferring your tag content the the 2nd pc Music Man?  HOW?  Are you writing the tags to the sidecar file on the first machine? Are you copying the sidecar file over?  Are you putting it in the right place?

Because if you are not are not doing that, then you are not providing the tag information to MC.  If you are not providing the tag information to MC, then Carnac can not be overwriting your tag information, because it is not there to be overwritten.

The steps I told you about getting the info into the sidecar files are not workarounds. They are the correct procedure. So if you're not performing the correct procedure, then again, you have nothing to complain about with Carnac.  Do you expect the second computer to respect your tags through clairvoyance? No, you must provide the data.  So are you providing the data?  That's the question.

Again, if you are providing the data correctly, and Carnac mangles or ignores it, that would be a bug. Provide the evidence.  If you are not providing the data, it's your fault, and the code that is intended to help is doing the best it can in the absence of data.  Saying "seeing incorrect information is a MC issue, not its user's" is hogwash if the user is not providing the correct information. That is why it is essential to establish if you're transferring that info.

You are either experiencing a bug, or this is user error.

If you can show you are providing the 2nd PC with the data correctly, and Carnac botches it, then I will gladly help you complain.

So we all want to help you, but we have to establish how to do that.  So which is it? Are you copying the metadata over or not?  Try the correct procedure I gave you, and see if your problem with Carnac magically disappears when transferring files.  Please just TRY it.  If you follow the procedure correctly, it will work.  And we know, because we do this all the time, successfully.

[glynor]

-Edit the sidecar file so that the path it contains pointing to its video file matches the NEW PATH on the new pc where the video file actually is.

You don't have to do this as long as the filename itself doesn't change. MC doesn't care about the full path in the Sidecar files.

(I do this ALL THE TIME to move files over to my Laptop.)

[Music_Man]

wer, I will definitely do as you've advised and again I appreciate your and everyone else's assistance.  My “workaround” mention wasn’t done to suggest that the procedure you provided wasn’t exact.  It was an unfortunate use of the word to suggest that I was going to try to do everything mentioned in this thread.

I don't plan to make the move to the new PC for some weeks yet, when a home theater installation is nearer to fruition.  But I will report back at that time if hiccups are experienced.  Hopefully with the assistance that everyone has provided, there will be no tagging issues with the replication and move.

I do remain in disagreement that a feature like Carnac should initially and always operate in default mode.  Why a feature like Carnac was designed to always run in the background seems the converse of what it should be.  Why it can't be toggled On via a user's YES, is beyond me. 

The same is true for the Auto Import feature when one first installs MC.  This crazy feature bit me, until I learned that I had X amount of time to cancel automatic importing.  The clock running before files are imported seems to be obvious.  But it is not to someone's first viewing of a new software’s screen.  Of course, when the timer's presence and importance is learned, it is obvious. But upon a new MC install, I still fret whether I will move quick enough to hit the cancel button – I know not terribly logical, but there it is.  Therefore, the question as Carnac's automatic running is: why are either of these processes set to run automatically?  It simply is more useful and satisfying for a user to control such automation; by being given the information and asked if that's what they want done, as opposed for something that could cause an issue, to automatically kick-in unknowingly and do so without approval.  Ok, I've beaten that dead horse beyond recognition!! 

In 2005 I switched from spinning CD's to ripping them & using a DAC to play them.  I also moved from the Windows OS to Apple and iTunes.  I detested iTunes because it was programmed to automatically handle files, folders and to perform without a user's intervention.  While it was controllable, its defaults were aggravating because I wanted to use it unlike it was designed. This made for a needless and detailed learning curve such as the one I've experienced with Carnac.   But one of iTunes main purposes was to sell music and videos and just work, so there wasn’t a priority to allow a user to drive, unless they really wanted to work at doing so.

With that vented, I moved to using MC for audio files after iTunes and appreciated the flexibility it offered.  Later, I moved to another player for my 2-channel audio room and files.  However, I still enjoy MC's video viewing options and features, as exemplified by the time spent learning its internal processes and by this post.

[wer]

Good luck with your upcoming move Music Man. Your reasons for detesting iTunes are very intelligent ones. MC may be difficult to learn, but at least it is not so aggravating as iTunes, I'm sure we can all agree on that.

I think you'll find, once you're preserving the tags in sidecars, and migrating those sidecar files properly, that there is nothing wrong with Carnac running as part of the import.  It is beneficial and does not cause problems when the user behaves reasonably. (I define moving media files without their metadata and expecting the metadata to be magically preserved as unreasonable. )  I know you disagree about Carnac remaining active, and wonder why it is, but the fact is (as we've explained) there are many reasons for it to remain active, and no valid reasons for it to be deactivated. So we'll have to agree to disagree...

Whether Auto-Import should be turned on by default is another matter entirely.

Personally, I don't think it should be, and I usually advise against others using it.  I think the user should take responsibility for their own data integrity, and ergo things should be added to and removed from the library only due the user's direct action.  I think having it on by default at first installation, and having it constantly running in the background, both cause more problems than they solve. And I think that "fix broken links" option is evil.  But that's my opinion. There are certainly use cases where Auto-import running in the background is desirable, and the user should have the option to turn such functionality on when needed.

You were not the first person, and certainly won't be the last, to be vexed by Auto-import. Be glad it didn't delete all your files and destroy all your playlists.

[JimH]

Whether Auto-Import should be turned on by default is another matter entirely.

Personally, I don't think it should be, and I usually advise against others using it.  I think the user should take responsibility for their own data integrity, and ergo things should be added to and removed from the library only due the user's direct action.

This has been discussed many times in the past.  What you suggest would work for an experienced user, but not for an inexperienced user.  There are lots more of the latter than the former.

[wer]

It has, as have a lot of other things that will continue to come up.  Actually, I find it's the inexperienced users who have troubles with Auto-import and it's consequences.  Experienced users know how to manage it.

[lepa]

Yes, that may be very intimidating for new user who just started the program and suddenly there is a clock running and you need to decide and decide fast "something" before clock ends.

I don't remember does it stay there if you stop the clock?
If it doesn't then new user who possibly would have wanted to start import but panicked and canceled the process as clock kept on ticking needs to figure another way to start importing media. VS. MC would ask: "Do you want MC to search for media to be imported into library: Yes / No"

[JimH]

Yes, that may be very intimidating for new user who just started the program and suddenly there is a clock running and you need to decide and decide fast "something" before clock ends.

I don't remember does it stay there if you stop the clock?
If it doesn't then new user who possibly would have wanted to start import but panicked and canceled the process as clock kept on ticking needs to figure another way to start importing media. VS. MC would ask: "Do you want MC to search for media to be imported into library: Yes / No"

How is that related to this thread?

The import dialog lets you stop the import for the first 45 seconds.  It only happens once, when the library is empty.

[glynor]

The import dialog lets you stop the import for the first 45 seconds.  It only happens once, when the library is empty.

And if it happens and you didn't want it, you can just clear the Library. I don't understand why this could ever be considered a "big deal".

[dtc]

And if it happens and you didn't want it, you can just clear the Library. I don't understand why this could ever be considered a "big deal".

It can be very confusing for the new/inexperienced user.  The experienced user can recover. The new user often does not know what to do.

[wer]

New users often don't understand what is happening glynor. They don't see the unobtrusive warning in the corner until too late. And then once the stuff is in, a new user doesn't actually know how to clear the library.

I've seen many cases of confusion and complaint from new users on this, in real life as well as on the forums.

It could all be avoided with a popup modal in the middle of the screen asking "Would you like me to scan your whole system for any media files I can find?"  But no.

[glynor]

I've seen many cases of confusion and complaint from new users on this, in real life as well as on the forums.

I agree, though I've been here longer than you. Before they did this, there were LOTS (and I mean sometimes 10 per week) of people who couldn't figure out how to import their content.

I wouldn't be opposed to it asking. The countdown timer bothers me too. I'm just saying that you're looking at a very small and skewed sample.

[wer]

You have, but I've been here long enough, I think. 

Before they did this, there were LOTS (and I mean sometimes 10 per week) of people who couldn't figure out how to import their content.

I couldn't agree more. If it did nothing there would be just as many people asking how to import.  That's why I said it should ask, in a lovely unavoidable dialog box. And it could offer instructions as to how to import later, if you decline now.  That would cover all bases.  Oh well.