Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Matt]

MC28 now offers the ability to pick a few s-curve cross-fade approaches.  There's normal, which s-curves in and out, and aggressive which s-curves out but starts the new track at full volume.

More details here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129677.0.html

Enjoy

[imeric]

In .29 right?

[Matt]

Yes.

[imeric]

Wow I like it!!!

First impression is the S-Curve (aggressive) might be a little too aggressive. ie the next song may start just a tiny bit too soon.

But let me play with it a bit more and post back thx!

[joshhuggins]

I really like both of the new S-Curve crossfades, nice work! I think the normal is a bit smoother for most of my listening, but I kind of dig the aggressive for working on media vs. listening. Hmmm gonna be a hard pick. 

[imeric]

One thing the new S-Curve(aggressive) does really well is handle songs with full volume up until the end of a song (like dance songs).  (Which was the main objective of my ask in the first place)
Not ideal for the "Barracuda" types, but it is a very good trade-off.

However this is done at the expense of typical "studio" fadeouts which can last from 4 up to 10 seconds approximately.  In these cases S-Curve (aggressive) can be quite aggressive....Or not enough...

I totally get this can't be perfect (hey...We still need DJ's right ?? :-) but maybe something can be done for long fadeouts... I need to keep playing with this more to come up with a suggestion...

So far S-Curve(aggressive) with 4 or 5 seconds seem to be the sweet spot.. Ideally 4.5s would be best as I keep toggling between the two...

Which is why I think we should have decimal choices for up to 10 seconds especially from 0-7 seconds for all of the track change options ('been meaning to ask for this for quite sometime)...

Something like these 2 options in seconds:

Code: [Select]

0.1 0.1
0.25 0.25
0.5 0.5
0.75 0.75
1 1
1.25 1.5
1.5 2
1.75 2.5
2 3
2.25 3.5
2.5 4
2.75 4.5
3 5
3.25 5.5
3.5 6
3.75 6.5
4 7
4.25 7.5
4.5 8
4.75 9
5 10
5.25 11
5.5 12
5.75 13
6 14
7 15
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16


[imeric]

I may have an idea...Toggling back and forth S-Curve (aggressive) and Gapless it looks like S-Curve (aggressive) is using the silence detection or gapless mark to start the cross-fade...

If there could be a logic to activate (or not) the S-Curve based on a certain dB threshold at this specific point (or mark) for the fadeout I think this could address the issue of long fades and make it smoother....

Just a thought I still need to play with this more...

[Matt]

We're thinking some more about track transitions.

Jim had the idea of allowing graphically drawing a transition.

Together we had the idea of allowing override of the setting in Options by picking a track and editing a new "Transition Style" field with instructions on how to transition (cross-fade style, duration, etc.).

Wondering if people have any thoughts on these ideas, or some of your own ideas you could share?

Thanks.

[milsdrewbulch]

The S-curve works just fine for me.

When you jump from one point in a track to another (by clicking ahead on the progress bar) there seems to be a nice fade-across. Not so sweet hitting some point on the volume slider though - just a sudden jump to the new volume. I raised this idea in the feature request section and it got only one person's approval, but a volume adjustment fader (or "volume damper") would be a great feature IMO.

[imeric]

The S-curve works just fine for me. When you jump from one point in a track to another (by clicking ahead on the progress bar) there seems to be a nice fade-across. Not so sweet hitting some point on the volume slider though - just a sudden jump to the new volume. I raised this idea in the feature request section and it got only one person's approval, but a volume adjustment fader (or "volume damper") would be a great feature IMO.

Wouldn't the S-Curve Smooth take care of some of this?

Also run an audio analysis and then use volume leveling if you want everything at the same volume level.

I do agree the graphic interface is a lot and also means we will need to mess with tags and specify a crossfade for each and every songs that don't work well with the default Cross-fade selected. I guess this is how it would work right?

Use the cross-fade type and duraiton that's in the Tag if NULL then use the default Cross-fade?

I would prefer a smarter Crossfade based on the type of fadeout as per this post: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129677.msg901091.html#msg901091

We're almost there we just need to tackle my point #3 in the url above.  It could be as simple as detecting a fast fadeout and then a few ms or seconds of silence to trigger a very short S-Curve transition.

[JimH]

... means we will need to mess with tags and specify a crossfade for each and every songs

Not unless you want to.  You'll be able to set a default.

[imeric]

Not unless you want to.  You'll be able to set a default.

Yeah this would work.

So specifying the fadeout type and duration wanted in the tag would work...Tedious but is the best approach. No need for a graphic interface you just trial and error with the song and then save it in the tag...

For example I would set the following Tag for these songs: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,129677.msg901222.html#msg901222  and leave S-Curve (agressive) duration 6s as my default.

Not sure if this is what you mean Jim but I think we have all the cross-fades required already....Just need to make sure we can put BOTH the type and duration in the Tag.

I'd still prefer hoping for a smarter cross-fade for these fast fadeout types but I get it's not easy to implement and all these are a bit different...

[JimH]

The graphic image is just a representation of the cross feed you're setting.

I'd like to be able to save and load different settings.

[Matt]

Should a track define the in and out used on the next track, or should that track define the out and the new track define the in?

[JimH]

Should a track define the in and out used on the next track, or should that track define the out and the new track define the in?

My understanding is that track one should fade out while track two begins at full volume.  I'm guessing there will be other opinions, but that's a clear starting point for JRiver to work from.

Does there need to be an option for a gap after the fadeout?

[imeric]

Should a track define the in and out used on the next track, or should that track define the out and the new track define the in?

I guess you could do both but I would start with the out only.  When I played with these #3 I keep referring to, it didn't quite matter what the next song was as long as I selected a very quick S-Curve (agressive):

Heart - Barracuda  (S-Curve (aggressive) - 0.2s)
Prince - Let's Go Crazy (S-Curve (aggressive) - 0.2s)
Blue Oyster Cult - Godzilla (S-Curve (aggressive) - 0.5s)
Blue Oyster Cult - Cagey Cretins (S-Curve (aggressive) - 0.2s)

[imeric]

My understanding is that track one should fade out while track two begins at full volume.  I'm guessing there will be other opinions, but that's a clear starting point for JRiver to work from.

Couldn't agree more my point exactly from the begining.

Does there need to be an option for a gap after the fadeout?

I don't think so no.

[Matt]

My understanding is that track one should fade out while track two begins at full volume.  I'm guessing there will be other opinions, but that's a clear starting point for JRiver to work from.

Does there need to be an option for a gap after the fadeout?

I was trying to make a way to draw what you want.  Do you set out on one file and in on the other?  Or does the first file define both?

I could also just allow picking the mode and duration with a file.  That would be easier.

[imeric]

I was trying to make a way to draw what you want.  Do you set out on one file and in on the other?  Or does the first file define both?

I could also just allow picking the mode and duration with a file.  That would be easier.

I'm totally convinced that having the ability to just set a fadeout out with a cross-fade type AND duration for a specific song is enough with the current crossfade settings available.

In my case I would ALWAYS use S-Curve (agressive) and specify a wanted duration for specific songs and write it to the tag THAT'S IT.
I would only do it for songs like the ones I named in my earlier post (referred to as scenario #3).

And then leave the default S-Curve (agressive) 6s do the rest for the other scenarios for songs that don't have crossfade tags.

Let me know if unclear.

[imeric]

I could also just allow picking the mode and duration with a file.  That would be easier.

Yes.

So we need the ability to write a Crossfade type + duration for a song in the tag AND/OR library if we don't want the default to be used for that specific song.

That's all we need!

[imeric]

I know I've been saying it a hundred times but I still think a smarter crossfade to address those fast fades with a silence at the end of a song (#3) would be nice.
Leverage silence detection?

If the continuator plugin can do it there has to be a way.

For sure the "Tag" approach is the most accurate one and works but time consuming for a user...And it involves writing to the song tag.  BUT I would start with this for sure if easier to implement...

 

[JimH]

I know I've been saying it a hundred times but I still think a smarter crossfade to address those fast fades with a silence at the end of a song (#3) would be nice.
Leverage silence detection?

This may be in 28.0.41.  We agree.

[Dawgincontrol]

Is this set in the playlist or is it assigned to the track meaning no matter where played (including in the track's original album)?

[imeric]

Is this set in the playlist or is it assigned to the track meaning no matter where played (including in the track's original album)?

to the track. there's 2 library fields for this

[cdrmaker]

Im looking for the new crossfade options, Where are they located? Also, I have tracks ripped from CD's with a sample rate of 44.1khz, and others that ive downloaded at 48khz. when i play these in MC25 and it switches from one sample rate to another, the transition is abrupt, not a smooth crossfade. will the new crossfade in MC28 fix this issue? Is there a setting i can change to get a smooth crossfade with the different sample rates?
thanks

[imeric]

Im looking for the new crossfade options, Where are they located? Also, I have tracks ripped from CD's with a sample rate of 44.1khz, and others that ive downloaded at 48khz. when i play these in MC25 and it switches from one sample rate to another, the transition is abrupt, not a smooth crossfade. will the new crossfade in MC28 fix this issue? Is there a setting i can change to het a smooth crossfade with the different sample rates?
thanks

It’s not an issue and is normal behaviour as your dac needs to change its sample rate for playback so it can’t be smooth… What you can do is change the sample rate to a higher setting under the dsp settings or just force everything to 44.1 or 48. The cross fade options are under playback settings