INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Make Waveform For Video Files  (Read 898 times)

Manfred

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
Make Waveform For Video Files
« on: June 23, 2021, 01:19:56 pm »

Quote
Audio CRC
BPM
Dynamic Range
HDCD
Peak Level (or merge this with the Volume Level option below as one option, Volume)
Volume Level (or merge this with the Peak Level option above as one option, Volume)
Waveform

Waveform should have the options: audio toggle button; video toggle button
Logged
WS (AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, 32 GB DDR4-3200, 2x2 TB SDD, LG 34UC98-W)-USB|ADI-2 DAC FS|Canton AM5 - File Server (i3-3.9 GHz, 16GB ECC DDR4-2400, 46 TB disk space) - Media Renderer (i3-3.8 GHz, 8GB DDR4-2133, GTX 960)-USB|Devialet D220 Pro|Audeze LCD 2|B&W 804S|LG 4K OLED )

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Autumn shade...
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2021, 01:53:37 pm »

IMO, that's a different thing completely than what's being discussed here and should be in its own topic.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

stan9980

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 05:54:38 am »

As the waveform is generated when audio analysis is performed, doesn't it make sense to have a toggle option for audio waveform and for video waveform with the other audio analysis checkboxes?
Logged

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Autumn shade...
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2021, 06:05:01 am »

Again, that's a different thing. As far as I know waveforms aren't calculated for video files at the moment, only audio files where it makes the most sense. So requesting waveforms for videos likely belongs in its own topic.

The overall general request of this thread applies to the audio analysis feature and the customization of what it tests for in audio files, not video files.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

Manfred

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2021, 08:23:14 am »

Audio is part of video.
Logged
WS (AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, 32 GB DDR4-3200, 2x2 TB SDD, LG 34UC98-W)-USB|ADI-2 DAC FS|Canton AM5 - File Server (i3-3.9 GHz, 16GB ECC DDR4-2400, 46 TB disk space) - Media Renderer (i3-3.8 GHz, 8GB DDR4-2133, GTX 960)-USB|Devialet D220 Pro|Audeze LCD 2|B&W 804S|LG 4K OLED )

pluto

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2021, 08:34:40 am »

I support the Donkey's proposals
Logged

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Autumn shade...
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2021, 08:49:00 am »

Audio is part of video.

Sorry, in this context I disagree and requesting waveforms for videos files does not belong in this topic. This request and proposed solution above is for audio files only and is related to the audio analysis feature which currently exists, which as the name implies is only for audio files. There is no "video analysis" type of feature as far as I know.

In my opinion it makes no sense at all to calculate waveforms for video files even though you obviously disagree, hence why it's probably best to request a "video analysis" type of feature with support for the calculation of waveforms in another topic instead of hijacking this topic any further with that request. It's a completely different thing altogether than what's being requested here with customization of an existing feature for audio files, even though again you obviously disagree with that.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

Manfred

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2021, 09:45:33 am »

Quote
instead of hijacking this topic any further
I have not hijacked the topic.
EnglishTiger wrote:
Quote
That is not much of a problem but having to once again remove the unwanted data from the Waveform Tag is something most of us can do without; so can we please have creating the waveform optional. Something that JimH agreed was a good idea - see replies 10 & 11 in the "1. Changed: Waveform data is no longer being created for Video content thread" - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,128474.msg891651.html#msg891651
Logged
WS (AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, 32 GB DDR4-3200, 2x2 TB SDD, LG 34UC98-W)-USB|ADI-2 DAC FS|Canton AM5 - File Server (i3-3.9 GHz, 16GB ECC DDR4-2400, 46 TB disk space) - Media Renderer (i3-3.8 GHz, 8GB DDR4-2133, GTX 960)-USB|Devialet D220 Pro|Audeze LCD 2|B&W 804S|LG 4K OLED )

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Autumn shade...
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2021, 10:26:26 am »

I believe you might've misread Jim's response in that thread.

I believe Jim was referring to the idea of the calculation of the waveform during audio analysis being optional, which is one of the main requests that the proposal I made above covers, and not per-say that it should apply to video files. I'm certainly not going to put words in his mouth of course, but that's the impression I got.

This thread is for the request, discussion and customization of not just the waveform but the other tags created as well by audio analysis for audio files only, not video files. My proposal above only covers audio analysis and audio files, not video files. Instead of taking the time to post replies here to the contrary you could've posted your request of waveforms for video files in its own separate topic where it should be. The request for waveforms for videos does not belong in this topic, and has nothing to do with the audio analysis feature and the proposed customization of said feature.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

Manfred

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2021, 04:24:41 pm »

I really disagree:
stan9980
wrote:
Quote
Please make waveform analysis for video at least an option.
Also the next post of this requires it
Quote
Waveform Analysis should be made OPTIONAL for EVERYBODY and not just for Video's!

and then JimH posted that it should be optional.
Logged
WS (AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, 32 GB DDR4-3200, 2x2 TB SDD, LG 34UC98-W)-USB|ADI-2 DAC FS|Canton AM5 - File Server (i3-3.9 GHz, 16GB ECC DDR4-2400, 46 TB disk space) - Media Renderer (i3-3.8 GHz, 8GB DDR4-2133, GTX 960)-USB|Devialet D220 Pro|Audeze LCD 2|B&W 804S|LG 4K OLED )

stan9980

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2021, 01:30:43 pm »

When waveforms were calculated for video (as recently as 27.0.57), they were done so via the Analyse Audio menu. Hence my suggestion that checkboxes for waveform for audio and for video to be added to the list, so all the options are in one place. It was a genuine attempt to build on the discussion contained within the thread.
Logged

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 7776
  • Autumn shade...
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2021, 02:54:08 pm »

Fair enough, even though audio analysis calculating waveforms for video files was unintended and a bug. Nonetheless any sort of "video analysis" used to calculate waveforms and other potential data for video files should be part of an overall video analysis feature with its own tags customization even though yes it's calculating the waveform for the audio track within a video. What should matter is the file type; audio files are handled by audio analysis and video files (even though they contain audio tracks) would handled by a video analysis type of feature.

However there's also complicated things to consider here, it's likely not as easy to do as you think... what if a video has multiple audio tracks? Does it generate waveforms for all of those? How does it or can it handle those with a single waveform tag? Or will it just calculate the waveform for the default audio track and none of the others? If it's considered, having a special waveform tag for video files (or multiple tags to handle multiple audio tracks within a video) might be needed, not sure.

Then there's the consideration that waveforms, especially when using theater view, could potentially be confusing to some users by needlessly complicating the seekbar. Having a waveform overlay at the top of the screen that could be toggled on and off or something like that would make sense, not so much having a waveform as the seekbar itself in theater view. I don't think very many people would be interested in such a feature to be perfectly honest.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3097
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2021, 03:33:44 pm »

I believe the only Audio Analyze option that is currently done for video files is the R128 functions. So, there is currently no need to have a checkbox for which analysis to do for video files. If you do not want to do the R128 analysis, just do not do Audio Analysis on video files.  If more functions are added to AA that do act on both audio and video files, then maybe separate checkboxes for audio and video files would become relevant. But, for now, checkboxes for video do not seem to serve any real function.
Logged

mattkhan

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 4199
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2021, 03:42:24 pm »

For me, the current implementation of waveform is useless but since the thread title is "a waveform for video files" then I'll suggest what would be a useful/interesting implementation of that feature (to me at least), namely a configurable (in terms of no seconds displayed on screen + channels shown) realtime waveform displayed as an overlay on the video, no offline analysis involved, just visualisation.
Logged

stan9980

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2021, 03:43:32 pm »

One man's bug is another man's feature! I take the point about audio and video being different types, but under Options the video section deals solely with visual options and refers you to the Audio section for all the audio options so I don't see a problem with Audio Analysis handling the audio aspect of a video file given that precedent.

I hadn't considered multiple audio tracks, but what happens currently with Volume Leveling for a file with multiple tracks? I would assume the default audio track is used and that would seem to be a reasonable solution.

I don't use theater view, I can understand why it could be confusing but I find the waveform very useful in display view, as I've detailed before. However, making it optional surely solves this.

@dtc: I wasn't suggesting checkboxes for which analysis to do to video files, just checkboxes to enable waveform for audio and to enable waveform for video files, as had previously been discussed, in the mooted reworking of Analyse Audio.
Logged

dtc

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 3097
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2021, 04:01:02 pm »



@dtc: I wasn't suggesting checkboxes for which analysis to do to video files, just checkboxes to enable waveform for audio and to enable waveform for video files, as had previously been discussed, in the mooted reworking of Analyse Audio.

Except waveform is not currently done for video files.  There is no reason to have the option unless waveform analysis is enabled for video files, which is a separate issue.  If waveform for video files is re-introduced, then an option makes sense.
Logged

stan9980

  • Recent member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Make Waveform For Video Files
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2021, 09:28:36 am »

Currently, no they're not, but for a period from when waveforms were introduced, up to and including 27.0.57, they were. From memory, someone objected to the large amount of disk space the waveform file took up - I completely understand that. After stating my case for why I found it useful, there was agreement that it should be an option. A discussion about reworking Analyse Audio seemed like a relevant place to suggest the waveform checkboxes, as in the versions of MC that do generate waveforms for video it's done by using Analyse Audio.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up