Topic: Pop / Click When Switching Tracks (Read 1002 times)

GoodEnoughGear · « **on:** August 21, 2021, 05:23:07 am »

Hi folks, I'm getting a pop/click with MC 28 when changing tracks, skipping to next track etc. if I have any VSTs running. I have JRMC27 and JRMC28 as a portable install sitting in adjacent directories, and I can confirm JRMC27 does not exhibit this behavior. Updating this initial post with testing detail as I get it.

Behavior:
I will get a single pop before playback begins, and before the subsequent track starts to play when manually switching tracks with 1 VST loaded. With more than 1 VST loaded I get two pops.

Config:
JRMC27 = MediaCenter270085-x64, JRMC28 = MediaCenter280049-x64, Installed on a desktop PC on a PCIE M.2 dual stick RAID volume on which the FLAC library resides as well. The Installs are portable installs on a separate Volume to be shared on a dual-boot system.
Config is identical from a backup of the Library settings.
OS = Windows 10 Pro, fully patched and up to date, dual boot with Windows 10 Enterprise, fully patched and up to date. The portable installs are shared between these two OSes (one is personal, the other Work) as the Volume is available to both.
Media = FLAC PCM mostly at 44.1/16, but some Hi-Res. This is being consistently resampled using SOX to 352.8/384 across the board. No DSD.
I have track switching set to gapless.

DSP Stack:

-6dB Internal volume
Resample to 352.8/384 with SOX
DMG TrackControl
SofTube Saturation Knob
DMG Equilibrium
DMG Essence

Scenarios Tested:
New install of MC 28 exhibits the problem repeatably and consistently, where MC 27 behaves correctly under all the following scenarios:

Portable install on both Operating Systems
Regular Install of MC 28 on the Windows 10 Pro (personal) Operating System
With multiple DACs
Using ASIO and WASAPI
Regardless of buffering settings
Regardless of in-memory playback
Regardless of Defender settings or even complete disablement
Regardless of VST Vendor (I have only two, happens with any individual VST)

Mitigating settings:
Selecting Crossfade for track change eliminates the track-switching pop(s), but the pop(s) are still presnt on initial playback startup.

Cheers,
GoodEnoughGear

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2021, 05:31:50 am »

Quote from: GoodEnoughGear on August 21, 2021, 05:23:07 am

Hi folks, I'm getting a pop/click with MC 28 when changing tracks, skipping to next track etc. if I have any VSTs running. I have JRMC27 and JRMC28 as a portable install, and I can confirm JRMC27 does not exhibit this behavior.

I'll move this to a new thread.

Did you configure Windows Defender?

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2021, 07:00:15 am »

Hi, yes, Windows Defender config makes no difference, exclusions on or not. Again I have the two versions running side by side, with the identical config. MC 28 exhibits the pops, MC 27 does not.

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2021, 08:08:41 am »

Double Check Defender.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html

Use DSP Studio > Output to resample everything to the same format.

See Weird Problems in my signature for more ideas.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2021, 10:38:08 am »

Quote from: JimH on August 21, 2021, 08:08:41 am

Double Check Defender.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114101.0.html

Use DSP Studio > Output to resample everything to the same format.

See Weird Problems in my signature for more ideas.

You'll see from my earlier post I am resampling everything to a common format and rate. The two portable installs of MC are on a separate drive with the media, and excluding that entire drive from Defender makes no difference. The fact that MC 27 is fine suggests this is a change in the codebase, not something on my machine.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2021, 03:55:07 am »

A bit more detail:

I am actually getting up to two pops in succession if I enable more than one VST plugin
It seems to occur for any VST plugin, not for the resampler alone, and occurs without the resampler as well
Defender optimization does not affect the behavior
VST Buffer size does not change the behavior
Using memory playback does not change the behavior
The more VST plugins are enabled, the louder the pops seem to be
The issue occurs using ASIO or WASAPI
The issue occurs regardless of Volume mode
The issue occurs only when manually switching or starting playback
The issue does not occur when regular gapless playback procedes to the next track
The issue occurs using gapless track switching, but not when cross-fading is selected. When cross-fading is selected, the issue still occurs on initial playback

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2021, 06:33:24 am »

Did you try the 32 bit version of MC28?

Compare settings carefully between MC27 and MC28?

All VST? Or some? Which ones?

Same drive?

Power for the drive?

Is it only a problem with the portable install?

Sorry if you've answered some of these above.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2021, 06:15:59 am »

Quote from: JimH on August 22, 2021, 06:33:24 am

Did you try the 32 bit version of MC28?
Compare settings carefully between MC27 and MC28?
All VST? Or some? Which ones?
Same drive?
Power for the drive?
Is it only a problem with the portable install?
Sorry if you've answered some of these above.

Hi Jim,

Did you try the 32 bit version of MC28? - No I have not, I have a 64-bit VST I use regularly, but happy to test this.

Compare settings carefully between MC27 and MC28? - The settings are a restore of the same backup, so identical.

All VST? Or some? Which ones? All VST, at least of the 4 I am using. I have tested them all individually - some exhibit a louder pop than others, and with multiple in the chain I get two pops.

Same drive? - Yes, the same drive.

Power for the drive? Drive is a M.2 PCIE dual stick raid volume powered by the motherboard.

Is it only a problem with the portable install? - I will test a regular install, too, I use portable as I have a dual-boot work/home system with the Music Volume shared. The behavior is consistent across both Windows installations, MC 28 pops and MC 27 behaves correctly. FWIW these are clean portable installs. OS is Windows 10 Pro for one and Windows 10 Enterprise for the other.

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2021, 06:33:34 am »

The M.2 drive is an internal drive, correct?

Why even use the portable install? Dual boot would work with the standard install.

I thought you'd said the drive was external. My mistake.

A 32 bit version of MC will run fine on a 64 bit machine. I'm suggesting it because it's possible one of your VST plug-ins isn't fully 64 bit compatible.

Is the problem the same on both versions of Windows? We don't officially support Windows Enterprise.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2021, 06:55:29 am »

Quote from: JimH on August 23, 2021, 06:33:34 am

The M.2 drive is an internal drive, correct?

Why even use the portable install? Dual boot would work with the standard install.

I thought you'd said the drive was external. My mistake.

A 32 bit version of MC will run fine on a 64 bit machine. I'm suggesting it because it's possible one of your VST plug-ins isn't fully 64 bit compatible.

Is the problem the same on both versions of Windows? We don't officially support Windows Enterprise.

Hi Jim.

The drive is an internal drive, correct. The reason I use a portable install is so that I don't have two MC installations on two operating systems whose metadata I would then need to keep in sync, I just use the single portable install on the shared drive.

I do not believe this is a VST incompatibility because the problem does not occur on a MC 27 portable install using the identical config, identical VSTs and identical library.

The problem occurs consistently on both Operating Systems.

I'll do some testing of the regular local install (I have one on the Win10 Pro partition to allow for licensing of the Portable installs), and report back.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2021, 12:01:38 pm »

I can confirm the pops are still present on a regular (non-portable) install as well.

Next I'll test MC 32-bit, and also a different machine entirely.

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2021, 12:18:02 pm »

Testing a different DAC would also be interesting.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2021, 12:20:39 pm »

Quote from: JimH on August 23, 2021, 12:18:02 pm

Testing a different DAC would also be interesting.

Yep that's easy too.

OK, tested with another DAC - the issue is still present.

whoareyou · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2021, 08:58:55 pm »

I had similar issue.

In my case, reducing the hardware buffer size eliminated the pops and clicks when switching tracks.

For me, I never correlated it to VSTs (which I use), nor do I know if it started with MC28.
I had been using my DAC's manufacturer recommended settings for long time before this happened.

At some point issue just showed up, and adjusting the device setting for buffering to a smaller amount eliminated issue for me.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2021, 01:18:58 am »

Initial post updated with current testing results. The issue persists.

Matt · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2021, 08:33:07 am »

It's a good suggestion to try increasing the buffering for the hardware. Options > Audio > Device settings...

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2021, 08:52:41 am »

Quote from: Matt on August 24, 2021, 08:33:07 am

It's a good suggestion to try increasing the buffering for the hardware. Options > Audio > Device settings...

Yeah I can set buffer to 500ms with no change (listed in the first post of the thread).

Matt · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2021, 08:55:27 am »

And does it only happen with VST enabled? If so, could you mail me one that does it (matt at jriver dot com)? Thanks.

Matt · « **Reply #18 on:** August 26, 2021, 08:01:44 am »

This took lots of back and forth (thanks Robbi) but it will be fixed next build. Thanks everyone.

GoodEnoughGear · « **Reply #19 on:** August 26, 2021, 10:58:20 am »

Quote from: Matt on August 26, 2021, 08:01:44 am

This took lots of back and forth (thanks Robbi) but it will be fixed next build. Thanks everyone.

Thanks for your persistence, Matt, it's the sort of thing that makes all the difference.

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Author Topic: Pop / Click When Switching Tracks (Read 1002 times)