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Author Topic: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!  (Read 3279 times)

Matt

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Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« on: December 05, 2002, 01:22:53 pm »

Media Center is now multi-zone capable -- meaning it can control multiple soundcards at a time.  Each zone has its own playback and DSP settings.  You can quickly flip between zones.

This is ideal for DJ's that preview on headphones while playing for the audience, or people with a few rooms in their house.

You can create zones using the "Zone Manager" in Media Center.  It is under the "Playback Options" button (far right button in the lower left player window)

You can quickly switch between zones using CTRL+~ (the tilde key to the left of your '1' button)

Not everything is perfect yet.  Volume control, visualizations, and zone synchronization all need some work.  However, what's already there provides a much slicker approach than the old solution "run a bunch of Winamps".

Let us know what you think :)

(requires Media Center 9.0.86 or later)
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bennyd

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2002, 02:08:13 pm »

Hi Matt,

Awesome function this Multi-Zone

Is it possible to have an option to choose the key combination to switch ?

I have a Belgian keyboard (AZERTY) which has the ~ next to my right shift and can only access it when typing "alt+~+spacebar"

So with the "ctrl+~" it will never work for non QWERTY keyboards

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RemyJ

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2002, 05:10:29 pm »

Way cool!

2 problems.  

The volume control only controls the first card detected regardless of which zone is active.  This is currently in my bug list.

Direct sound only goes to the windows preferred device so you can't use direct sound for both zones. (well, you CAN but you get both playbacks from the same device).
I tried setting one of the zones to wave out and set the second device as the output.  This works OK except that there's an annoying stutter when I press stop.

I could swear in earlier V8 builds you could select a device for direct sound as well as wave out.

Still, great work!


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JimH

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2002, 05:39:49 pm »

Quote
Way cool!

The volume control only controls the first card detected regardless of which zone is active.  This is currently in my bug list.


Matt knows about that one and he's still working on it.

Glad you like it.
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Mastiff

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2002, 10:22:06 pm »

Yeah, it's a nice start. But the big question is: Will this ever evolve to the stage where I can choose to play different tracks on the different zones at the same time, and also play the same track to all zones at once? If not I'm afraid it does not really replace the "bunch of Winamps" method which I will gladly admit is lousy, both in terms of stability (they have a tendency to rever to the default sound card) and control (with NetRemote I will control my MC9 to perfection as soon as the bug with Web Remote that makes MC crash is fixed - I actually thougt it had happened now, but it turned out to be a fluke).

Still, it really is a very nice start.  8)
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RemyJ

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2002, 10:35:11 pm »

Quote
Yeah, it's a nice start. But the big question is: Will this ever evolve to the stage where I can choose to play different tracks on the different zones at the same time,


That's what it does now.  Each zone get's it's own playing now window and each can be playing at the same time.  I just tried it and was able to have to completely different playlists playing at the same time.

What we need now is the ability to take a track from Zone A's playing now (say the preview zone) and send it to the end of Zone B's playing now (say the PA zone).

Quote
and also play the same track to all zones at once?


Can't do that one yet.
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Mastiff

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2002, 11:19:53 pm »

Sorry, I apologize, I was totally off track. You're right. It does, and to perfection! This will make for some interesting posts, like the one I could truthfully write now: "Listening to Alphaville in the bedroom, Anvil in the living room and Andrea Bocelli in the bathroom".  ;D

So playback not only works, it works flawlessly (at least the first couple of tracks that I had time to hear). But the control issue is a bit more complicated. Because the main problem there is that I need to be able to control all aspecs from a remote, without ever turning on a monitor. The thing from a home automation veiwpoint (which is my viewpoint) is that it should be possible to assign remote commands in such a way that when you press stop on the remote that's programmed (via Girder, of course) for the living room, this should stop playback in the living room. And the same should apply for every other remote command. Right now it stops the active zone (the one you'll se in the MC window).

One way to do this would be to have multi group commands that first selects the correct zone and then stops playback, but this might give a time lag (how long I do not yet know, since I can't try it yet because of the way you change between zones, see below). Another way could be to use command line commands, like "media jukebox.exe -z1 -stop" or something. But I don't know if this would mean a time lag as well. The best way would probably be to make the Girder plugin (or MC itself) accept command messages that in plain text would be like "zone 1 stop", without ever having to change the active zone.

Now if I have understood this correctly (and I believe I have), you change between zones with one key combination that toggles zones. I'm confident that this solution is temporarily, since home automation/remote control with a multigroup command at the very least needs the ability to select the zone you want to control (probably in a key combination with numbers to select the zone). But then again if the ability to accept commands directed at a certain zone is implemented, this is not necessary.

The final issue is selecting playlists via a remote. This is probably best done with the command line method (media jukebox.exe d:\playlists\999.m3u). As for choosing tracks/albums via NetRemote/Web Remote it now displays the active zone, but I guess it should be quite easy to implement a "change zone" command in Web Remote (I guess since I'm not and have never been a programmer. On my best days I consider myself a power user, but no programmer in any way, shape or form).

Anyway, all my nagging and nitpicking aside, this is the first application that can replace the really expensive hardware multi zone sound systems from ADA and such companies. I guess my switch to MJB a year or so ago was the smart move I hoped!  ;D

So keep up the good work, this is getting ever closer to a home automation fan's dream!  8)
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Matt

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2002, 03:12:40 am »

Remote control issues are a little hairy, but we will deliver a solution.  Ideally the SDK or command line would become multi-zone aware.  For now, we may just make a simple way to switch zones, so you'd first fire a "switch to zone 2" then a "stop". (don't worry, it'll be fast)

About "synchronizing" zones -- it's harder than you might think because every soundcard has different latencies (and sometimes even slightly different rates).  Then, sometimes the length of cross-fades gets changed based on if the computer is keeping up.  If the system is under load, one zone could get a little ahead of the other at a track boundary.  In any event, the next build will probably have a cursory "synch" command that may be good enough for a lot of situations.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Mastiff

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2002, 03:22:34 am »

Sounds good! Do you have any idea when that build will come out? As soon as possible, I hope... ;D

As for the remote issue: Ofcourse I can deal with having to do multi group commands for everything as long as you keep the delay short.

Have you done any thinking about my problems with Web Remote/NetRemote?  8)
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orangarot

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2002, 05:10:37 am »

The multi- zone playback is a cool thing i think.

but is ist possible to make an option that you can chose with a right click on a song "play in zone 2" or "ad to playing now in zone2"?

that would be interesting for preview on headphones

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PhatPhreddy

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2002, 05:20:35 am »

WOW This will be an uber feature for those with multi room setups.....

One suggestion on the remote angle... Perhaps you can modify webremote to run multiple instances on different ports... This way WebRemote on Port 80 is living room, Port81 is bathroom, Port 82 is.. Well you get the idea....

This would allow a Glissando like app or a modified Glissando to be launched for each control zone or a 'master glissando' which broadcast the same signal to multiple ports at once...

Then those of us doing things with Mainlobby can incorporate visual GUI's of the houseing floorplans (lots are doing this with X10 lighting now showing state info of the lights displayed on the floorplan matching the state of X10 light control) and a music button in each room launching that glissando version....    

This is an amazing step guys well done...
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PhatPhreddy

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2002, 05:30:26 am »

Ohh and another little Q....

Does the current system allow you to map stereo pairs of a single multichannel coundcard (you mention many soundcards thats all)...

I think the way many who currently do this is to use channel 1&2 for room 1 Ch 3&4 for room 2 Ch 5&6 for room 3 and Ch 7&8 for room 4... Cuts down on HW costs of course....

With this and the Envy24HT chipped 24/192 M-Audio stuff coming out and a DVD-A player (from a real audio company not creative !!) in the spring PC audio is really going to surprise the established upper end audio world like the HTPC has done to the video arena !!!    
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JimH

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2002, 05:50:10 am »

Quote
Perhaps you can modify webremote to run multiple instances on different ports... This way WebRemote on Port 80 is living room, Port81 is bathroom, Port 82 is.. Well you get the idea....


That's a very good idea.  Thanks.
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Matt

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2002, 06:58:12 am »

Does the current system allow you to map stereo pairs of a single multichannel coundcard (you mention many soundcards thats all)...

Sure.  WaveOut and DirectSound work fine with multiple instances on one card.  However, you can only have one zone using ASIO at a time, because Steinberg's SDK is old-school C that isn't multi-instance friendly.  

What we need now is the ability to take a track from Zone A's playing now (say the preview zone) and send it to the end of Zone B's playing now (say the PA zone).

We don't want to pollute the interface for non-multi-zone users.  For now, use Copy and Paste across the zones.  Later we may break "Send To -> Playing Now" into zones.

Thanks everyone.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Mastiff

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2002, 07:27:21 am »

OK, Matt, now you've lost me. Maybe not that difficult, but...   ? I know about the option to choose soundcard, but where do I map it to for instance play to the living room on the back channels on my Audigy 2 and to the bedroom on the front channels? Is there something I haven't found out yet? This is a very nice option if I can get it to work, since all my soundcards (the zones are growing, now I use five cards on two different computers, connected with SPDIF cables for same track playback on all zones) are multi channel. That would, at least in theory, give me twice the amount of available zones! Or is this only possible on M-Audio cards? Please enlighten me!  8)
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Raistlin2000

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2002, 01:41:57 pm »

Pretty cool!!!
What about changing fading-time without stopping & restarting playback?? Your multi-zone is a very nice idea, but it's only half done, when fading time can't be changed during playback.

Please don't forget this, as well as the fading-settings on the main-screen.!!

Thanks
Raist
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bradswanson

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2002, 06:44:52 am »

I second Phat Phreddy's idea with using varying web remote ports so that we can use a Glissandoish front end for each zone.  This would be the perfect system once some of the user variables such as selecting between zones easily with girder has been buttered up.  One other Q...is there a way for the "full screen" mode to not take full control of the display thus allowing the playback of images from my picture gallery simultaneously selcting various songs with a copy of Glissando on one of 4 or so ports around the house on that same display?   This kind of dynamic control is pertinant for the multi-zone institution to FLY!  I love it already.

Samsonite
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Jaguu

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Re: Introducing: MULTI-ZONE PLAYBACK !!!
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2003, 06:47:42 am »

Hi,

just set up a 2 zone environment:
1) My onboard sound-card  connects to my desktop speakers
2) My second audio card connects to my stereo!

I am very impressed so far and don't have any wishes right now, just two questions:

1) Will the volume control bug be fixed, volume control only working with zone 1?

2) Which is the preferred output mode: Wave out or Direct Sound? Advantages/Disadvantages?

Thank you!


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