Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[macdonjh]

I think using Media Server will help me, but I'm not certain I understand the Wiki article.  I would use Media Server only at home, no streaming my local files over the internet to my phone or my work computer.

My home hardware consists of my Silver computer hard-wired to our router and my home theater system.  My Black computer roams in the house and is connected to our router via wifi and is then connected via USB to a couple of head phone systems.  Finally, my media files are located on a NAS, hard wired to our router.

I use my Silver computer as my "main" computer.  But I'd like my Black computer to have access to the Library on my Silver computer, and be able to sync to that Library (so all my Date Last Played, etc. meta-data stays current).

So, first, do I need a copy of my Library on my NAS, or by setting up Media Server, do other computers on our network have access to the Library on my Silver computer?

[JimH]

The Media Network topic on our wiki should explain this. Turn on media network in settings and try connecting to it from another machine using the access key.

[rec head]

So, first, do I need a copy of my Library on my NAS, or by setting up Media Server, do other computers on our network have access to the Library on my Silver computer?

Yes they do have access once you setup the Silver computer as the server.

[macdonjh]

Thanks, Bill H and rec head.

[macdonjh]

One more question: if using Media Server, is it better to have the "served" Library on the server, or on one of the computers connected to the home network?  I ask, because I could have my "served" Library on my NAS, or on my Silver computer.  It seems like communication would be shorter by one step if my "served" Library was on my NAS.

[rec head]

Are you talking about MC's Library that is the database of your files or are you using "library" to mean all the media files?

Best practice is to have the MC Library on the computer itself and I believe this is the default. Where the media files are located doesn't matter as long as your network is fast enough. Most networks are.

[macdonjh]

rec head,

We're on the same page.  My media files are located on my NAS.

My question was about the MC Library database file specifically. 

[macdonjh]

I finally took a few minutes and set up Media Server.  I haven't really tried it yet, but I think it's working properly.  Thank you everyone for your help.

[macdonjh]

I'm a bit frustrated: my Media Server client computer has lost connection, and been unable to re-establish connection, twice in the past couple of weeks.  Obviously, I was able to get the connection back at least once, but I can't do that now.  Can you help me troubleshoot? 

I don't think it's a problem with either my client computer or my network hardware.  I'm using my client computer to surf the internet and make this post, our router handles both local network and internet traffic, and I can use a MC Library saved locally on my client computer to listen to files saved on my NAS. 

Is there something I need to do with my Host computer?

[JimH]

Is the server going to sleep?

[macdonjh]

It does, but my client computer doesn't necessarily lose it's ability to "see" my network Library then.  That said, the few times I have lost communication, my server computer has been asleep. 

By "asleep" I mean screen dark after however many minutes of no user input rather than me going to the Start menu and executing the "sleep" command.

[macdonjh]

Update: I haven't gotten a connection between my Client computer and Server in three days.  I have no idea how to begin trouble shooting this.

Client computer: I'm listening to music (from a local Library) and connected to the internet to type this, so I know I am connected to my NAS through our wi-fi router.

Server computer: I've just started a TV Show using the Library I have "connected" with Media Server, so I know it's also connected to my NAS through our wi-fi router (it used to be an ethernet connection, but that's another problem).

So both computers are connected to our network, but they won't talk with each other.  Any ideas?

[JimH]

Did you turn on Media Network in MC options?

[macdonjh]

I've attached a snip of the Tools -> Options -> Media Network screen of my Client computer.

The same screen on my Server computer has the "Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA" box checked and displays an Access Key.  My Client computer has recognized the Access Key in the past and connected to my Server computer properly.

[zybex]

On the MC server, make sure the Network profile is "Private", not "Public". Windows asks you this when you connect to a new network/wifi for the first time, but you can check and change it if needed.

If it's already Private then check the Windows firewall (or other Antivirus+Firewall product). You need to tell it not to block MC.

[macdonjh]

On the MC server, make sure the Network profile is "Private", not "Public". Windows asks you this when you connect to a new network/wifi for the first time, but you can check and change it if needed.

If it's already Private then check the Windows firewall (or other Antivirus+Firewall product). You need to tell it not to block MC.

When I looked in Settings, I saw both "private" and "public" "tags" for various programs and networks.  Is public/private determined by Windows settings, or is it determined by the router?

Question for MC developers: what are the drawbacks to having a shared Library located on a server/ NAS instead of on a computer?  My server/ NAS is always on and available to all the computers in our house, but apparently the computer I currently use as a Media Server for MC sleeps from time to time, which is a frustrating hassle for me. 

I will also look into allowing my Server computer to sleep when I'm not home or when I'm asleep and to stay awake otherwise.

[zybex]

That's

When I looked in Settings, I saw both "private" and "public" "tags" for various programs and networks.  Is public/private determined by Windows settings, or is it determined by the router?

Those are individual firewall rules - that is just to say if the rule applies to a public or a private network.

To check/change your network, check this guide:
https://www.opentechguides.com/how-to/article/windows-10/77/win10-change-network-type.html

[macdonjh]

That's
Those are individual firewall rules - that is just to say if the rule applies to a public or a private network.

To check/change your network, check this guide:
https://www.opentechguides.com/how-to/article/windows-10/77/win10-change-network-type.html

Rules for different networks also occurred to me.  Thank you for the link.

BTW, I never really gave any back story or resolution to this problem:

It turns out, the original cause was a failed ethernet/ USB-C adapter I use between my media server computer and NAS.  Once I switched my Server computer from ethernet to wi-fi things mostly worked, except when router traffic was high .  Once I took the existing adapter out and put a new one in, everything started working fine again.

I still think it would be great if the developers could make it so Media Server Libraries could be effectively hosted on the network rather than a computer connected to a network.

[zybex]

I still think it would be great if the developers could make it so Media Server Libraries could be effectively hosted on the network rather than a computer connected to a network.

What, stored in the cabling? 
A NAS is also a computer running a Linux variant.

[JimH]

It's a common belief that a NAS isn't a computer, but it is.  Worse, it's a non-standard OS.

Five years ago, I said "please don't" use one.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=110729.0

Let the slings and arrows begin.

[macdonjh]

It's a common belief that a NAS isn't a computer, but it is.  Worse, it's a non-standard OS.

Five years ago, I said "please don't" use one.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=110729.0

Let the slings and arrows begin.

Neither slings nor arrows, just asking. My simplistic thought is the Library is simply a file MC needs access to and since my NAS is always on having a shared Library stored there would provide more consistent operation then having the Library on a computer which may go to sleep at any moment.

Does whatever OS the NAS uses have any effect on MC getting access to a Library?

I chose a NAS simply to make my missus happy . Our NAS is out of sight in the closet where we keep our modem and router. The closet needs a 50 foot cable between storage devices and my media computer, so I liked the NAS/ethernet solution. Besides, if I kept using USB drives I would have had a stack four sitting out where my wifr could see them. Unacceptable.

[JimH]

A very low power computer like the Raspberry Pi can support a USB drive and provide file server capabilities, similar to a NAS.  You could lose a Raspberry Pi in your couch cushions.

[zybex]

I think you mean just storing the MC database in the NAS, and have multiple clients pointing to it (ie, multiple MC clients, no MC server).
You can indeed configure MC to store the library on the NAS, it's just a folder path like any other. You can even connect multiple MCs to that same library... but you will have serious problems if you try to use them at the same time. The Server acts as a coordinator for multiple clients; without a server, if you have more than one MC client trying to use the same library files at the same time you will get access errors (file in use) and probably some corrupted DB files. Without a server to coordinate, when one of your MCs writes something to the DB the others aren't' aware of it so they might overwrite the info or write to a different section of the DB, corrupting the file. Writes may also fail if another MC instance is locking the DB files for reading/writing.

For multiple clients accessing the same data, you need a coordinator - that's MC Server role.

[macdonjh]

A very low power computer like the Raspberry Pi can support a USB drive and provide file server capabilities, similar to a NAS.  You could lose a Raspberry Pi in your couch cushions.

I didn't think of an R-Pi...

[macdonjh]

I think you mean just storing the MC database in the NAS, and have multiple clients pointing to it (ie, multiple MC clients, no MC server).
You can indeed configure MC to store the library on the NAS, it's just a folder path like any other. You can even connect multiple MCs to that same library... but you will have serious problems if you try to use them at the same time. The Server acts as a coordinator for multiple clients; without a server, if you have more than one MC client trying to use the same library files at the same time you will get access errors (file in use) and probably some corrupted DB files. Without a server to coordinate, when one of your MCs writes something to the DB the others aren't' aware of it so they might overwrite the info or write to a different section of the DB, corrupting the file. Writes may also fail if another MC instance is locking the DB files for reading/writing.

For multiple clients accessing the same data, you need a coordinator - that's MC Server role.

I think yes, that's what I am asking about.  When I read the Wiki article about Media Server the recommendation was to place the "common" Library on a computer which would be the Server, not in "common storage", like a NAS.  With your reply above, I think I understand why.

If Media Server is to work properly, would it also have to be located on the NAS to act as the Server for the "common" Library located on the NAS?  I guess I thought the computer acting as the MC Server could direct the traffic and coordinate access and writing to a Library no matter where the Library is located.  In other words, the copy of Media Center set up for Media Server on the Server computer could coordinate the activities of Client computers with their own instances of Media Center plus both the media files as well as a "common" library stored on a NAS which wouldn't have an instance of Media Center running on it. 

Of maybe I still don't understand. 

[zybex]

You can have MCServer on a PC with the library on the NAS, but performance will suffer a LOT due to network latency. Since the server needs to be up anyway to serve the library (ideally 24/7), why not have the library there as well? The library is relatively small and really benefits from running on an SSD on the same PC as the MC Server. That's the ideal config. Of course, you can (and should) configure the automatic backups to go to the NAS.

As Jim mentioned above you can use an RPi or a relatively low powered PC for the server. An RPi won't be as fast as a cheap NUC though - I use this.

[JimH]

As Jim mentioned above you can use an RPi or a relatively low powered PC for the server. An RPi won't be as fast as a cheap NUC though - I use this.

It's fast enough for music.  A server doesn't require much CPU power.

[macdonjh]

Update: I haven't gotten a connection between my Client computer and Server in three days.  I have no idea how to begin trouble shooting this.

Client computer: I'm listening to music (from a local Library) and connected to the internet to type this, so I know I am connected to my NAS through our wi-fi router.

Server computer: I've just started a TV Show using the Library I have "connected" with Media Server, so I know it's also connected to my NAS through our wi-fi router (it used to be an ethernet connection, but that's another problem).

So both computers are connected to our network, but they won't talk with each other.  Any ideas?

This is happening again, my Client computer will not connect with my Server computer. 

When I was trying to trouble shoot using my Client computer I went to Tools -> Options -> Media Network and noticed the Access Key shown did not match the one my Server Computer shows me.  Why would my Client computer "invent" an access key?

I went to Playing Now, and in the Playing From list clicked on the Library I'd set up to share via Media Server.  MC28 started try to load that Library and even showed the Access Key which matches the one recorded on my Server Computer.  But, still no connection.  I've made sure my Server computer is awake and running.  Any ideas?

[JimH]

The Access Key on the client is what you use to connect to it.

If you want the client to connect to the server, you need to use the Access Key of the server.

[macdonjh]

The Access Key on the client is what you use to connect to it.

If you want the client to connect to the server, you need to use the Access Key of the server.

I thought the Client should use the Access Key from the Server to connect to the Server.  I still don't get a connection.  Is there a procedure to "reboot" Media Server?  Can I "delete" my Media Server set-up and then set it up again?  There seems to be something wrong or corrupt in my set-up.  Both my Server and Client computers can communicate with my network, but they won't communicate with each other through my network.

[JimH]

Turn Media Network off and back on to generate a new key.

[macdonjh]

Thank you.  That seemed too easy and obvious.  I thought there'd be step to "break the link" to something like that.

[macdonjh]

What I did didn't work.

On my Server computer, I went to Tools -> Options -> Media Network and "unchecked" the top box, "Use Media Network..."  I let that sit for over an hour while I did some library stuff: import, retag, etc.

Then I returned to Tools -> Options -> Media Network and "rechecked" the top box.  I followed the steps, clicking <Next> at each step.  MC28 did not assign a new access key but kept the old one. 

I started MC28 on my Client computer.  I went to Playing Now, clicked/ highlighted <network library name> and then clicked Load Library.  It wouldn't load.

On my Client computer, do I need to delete my "network library" first, then re-establish Media Server?

[JimH]

Try rebooting both sides.

[JimH]

Make sure you're not running a server from an old version of MC.

[macdonjh]

Restarting both computers seems to have worked.  I know both computers have been restarted, but not together and not after turning Media Server off then on again.  Maybe that's the secret sauce?

For the record: Server MC28.0.94, Client MC28.0.88.

Thank you for you help.

[macdonjh]

OK, this is happening again: my Client computer will not connect with my Server computer.

For some reason, Windows dropped my Client computer's connection to my NAS, so I had to recreate my Windows credential, reconnect to my network/ NAS, then remap the folder where my media files are.  I hate Windows (rant over).

The I double checked and both copies of MC28 are the same version: 28.0.106.

The I restarted both Server and Client computer.

I've gone to Tools -> Options -> Media Server and turned off Media Server, closed Media Center, restarted Media Center, then turned Media Server back on.

I opened Windows File Explorer, navigated to a music file and double-clicked.  Windows started Media Center and started playing the song through the computer's speakers, so I know my Client computer can communicate with my modem/ NAS directly.

Still no luck loading my shared Library.  Does anyone have any ideas?  This is making me angry (rant over again).

[zybex]

All this sounds like you have two DHCP servers active in your network. Can you check the IP address in each of your machines, and on the NAS and Router(s) as well?

[macdonjh]

zybex: "All this sounds like you have two DHCP servers active in your network. Can you check the IP address in each of your machines, and on the NAS and Router(s) as well?"

While I don't know how this could be possible, we only have one router in our house, it might explain something weird I noticed when I tried to connect my Client computer to my Server through Media Server.  I got the pop up which told me MC was trying to connect to the server and saw MC trying to connect to two different IP addresses.  I thought that was odd.

Before posting I tried to log into our router and find out what our current IP addresses are (our home network is set up as DHCP, no static IP addresses).  But for some reason I was unable to log in to our router; something has changed and I'll have to figure out what it is before I can answer your question. 

[JimH]

A DHCP server can also be run on a computer or another network device.

Static IP addresses might help.

[macdonjh]

A DHCP server can also be run on a computer or another network device.

Static IP addresses might help.

I guess the fifth try is the charm, I was able to log in to our router.  At least all the IP addresses connected were/ are unique.  I also checked the network settings of both my Server and Client computers: both are set up as DHCP and both are connecting to the same router IP address.  Is that evidence I only have one server operating on my network?

If not, how do I diagnose how many servers are set up, and how do I return to having only one? 

[zybex]

If both the client and server have an IP in the same range (eg, 192.168.1.x) they they should be able to talk to each other. If everyone is on the same range and they can't talk to each other, it's likely a firewall problem. The router and NAS should also be in the same range, only the last number should change.

If you reboot and you notice you've lost connectivity then check the IP addresses again. If they're in different ranges then there's another DHCP server. A NAS can also act as a DHCP server.

A VPN app can also cause problems like that if it's misconfigured. Some router options also prevent Wireless clients from talking to other PCs in the network. Lastly, make sure you're not connecting to your neighbor's open wifi

[macdonjh]

If both the client and server have an IP in the same range (eg, 192.168.1.x) they they should be able to talk to each other. If everyone is on the same range and they can't talk to each other, it's likely a firewall problem. The router and NAS should also be in the same range, only the last number should change.  Yesterday's DHCP assignments for all our devices were in the same range: 192.168.1.xx where xx was from 1-20 (our router was 1, I don't remember what my NAS was, my two computers were something like 12 and 14).

If you reboot and you notice you've lost connectivity then check the IP addresses again. If they're in different ranges then there's another DHCP server. A NAS can also act as a DHCP server.  The restarts I did yesterday was the first in a while.  I did; however, restart my NAS a few weeks ago, I think for an OTA update.  I haven't had this problem be so persistent before.  I don't think I've ever had my NAS hijack DHCP duties.  I guess it's possible.  I've never asked it to on purpose...

A VPN app can also cause problems like that if it's misconfigured. Some router options also prevent Wireless clients from talking to other PCs in the network. We're not using a VPN.  Lastly, make sure you're not connecting to your neighbor's open wifi   Good thought, but my Server computer is hard wired and I verified my Client computer is connected to our router.

Thank you, Zybex and BillH.  I'll try again later today to see if my problem has magically cured itself.  That would be only fitting since it seems like it magically reappeared after working well for several months.

[macdonjh]

Tried again and failed to connect my Client computer with my Server computer.  I did record the IP address my Client is pinging:
192.168.1.33
98.199.230.145

Which is strange, because neither of those addresses appears in our network.  Is that evidence my Client computer is trying to connect to a different network?  How do I direct it back to my network?

[JimH]

192.168.1.33 is a local address.  The other is your outside address (from the Internet).

Turn Media Network off and back on.  That will generate a new Access Key.  You can also test it there by clicking on the Access Key.

[macdonjh]

192.168.1.33 is a local address.  The other is your outside address (from the Internet).

Turn Media Network off and back on.  That will generate a new Access Key.  You can also test it there by clicking on the Access Key.

That 1.33 address may be local, but it's not "on" our router.  I don't know why my Client computer is trying to connect to it.  I've tried turning Media Server off and on from my Client computer.  It didn't generate a new Access Key or solve the problem.  Should I have turned it off/on again from my Server computer?  Both?  (I'll try...)

I just checked my Settings and confirmed my Client computer is only connected to our router, not our neighbor's.  As I said, my Server is hard wired to our router.

[JimH]

Is your router's address 192.168.1.0?

[macdonjh]

Our router's address was .1.1 yesterday, I think.

Resetting Media Server worked, it just took more clicking than I thought it would.  I had to click some random drop down menu items to find the reset "button" on my Server computer.  Once I "reset", MC28 assigned a new Access Key like you said it would (I had only been unchecking the "Use Network..." button and restarting MC28).  I then went to my Client computer and <added> a Library, entered the name of my Shared Library and my new Access Key and everything is working now.  I <removed> the old copy of my Shared Library from my Client computer and renamed the new copy to get rid of the "(1)".

Something weird: before I successfully reset Media Server and created a new Access Key I "opened" Playing Now and right-clicked my Shared Library.  Part of the information in that pop-up was the Server's IP address: .1.33.  I have no idea where that came from.  At least yesterday that address was not defined by our router. 

Maybe this caused all the trouble?  I also noticed on my Client computer under Tools -> Options -> Media Network, the box for "Use Network to share this library and enable DNLA" was checked.  With that checked (it's not now), could it have been trying to act as a server for a Library not installed on this computer?  Was it trying to contact itself?  Whatever it was doing, I don't remember checking that box on my Client computer and Media Server has worked in the past...

Anyway, it's working again.  Thank you for your patience, JimH and Xybex.