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[MediaMongrel]

Hello,

The following was previously done using JRiver 26, but I have since upgraded and installed JRiver 28, and the problem still exists.

I recently had a whole bunch of photo negatives scanned, and am now opening each one in Photoshop for clean-up and color correction.  Each one has an embedded color profile by default (embedded during the scanning process, I presume) which is "sRGB IEC61966-2.1".  When I save the edited photo, the same color profile remains embedded.

Whether or not I've edited the photo... if I open the photo using 'Photos' app in Windows, I see exactly what I see in Photoshop.  However, if I open the same image in JRiver (or IrfanView, or 'Paint' app in Windows), I see an image with a somewhat different set of colors - not what I see when viewed in Photoshop or Photos.

If I still have that image open in Photoshop, and I go to Edit - Assign (Color) Profile... and I change the color profile to "Adobe RGB (1998)"... then I see in Photoshop the same set of colors as can be seen when I open the image in JRiver.  This means, JRiver was incorrectly displaying the original image using the wrong color profile... instead of the sRGB profile that was embedded into the image, JRiver was insisting on displaying the image using the broader Adobe RGB profile.   Well... that's great if I want to display a wider colour gamut than was originally in the photo, but it also drags the existing colors into inappropriate hues that weren't meant to be displayed.   At least, this is the conclusion I've come to, as I'm just trying to figure this all out on the fly.

So my question is... is there a way to set JRiver to automatically detect an image's embedded color profile, and use that profile to display the image correctly, on a per image basis?  Or do I need to go back through 100s of photos in Photoshop and manually embed them with the Adobe RGB (1998) profile and re-color correct each one all over again, just so that they're displayed correctly in JRiver?  (sigh)

Thanks for any incoming advice, ahead of time!

[MediaMongrel]

It seems photos taken with (most?) modern phone-cameras are embedded with the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color profile - that's what Photoshop seems to tell me.  The issue again is, the colors display correctly in apps (like Photoshop and Windows' Photos) that display an image using the correct profile 'lens', but not in apps that apply the wrong color profile 'lens'.

Okay, so I've now learned that if, in Photoshop, I convert an image from one color profile to another, rather than assign a new color profile, then Photoshop will adjust the colors so that they don't stretch with the extended color space boundaries... so no further color correcting/compensating is necessary, I only have to resave the file with the changes in place. 

However, I'd have to apply the change for EVERY photo I have, as I just realized, the JRiver quirk doesn't just affect the 100s of negatives I recently had digitally scanned, but the 1000s of photos taken with my phone-cameras.  They too are all displaying incorrectly in JRiver, I just realized - overyly warm coloring.  That is many many hours of me having to open/convert/re-save, if there is no setting in JRiver to (auto?) adjust which color profile it uses to display images.  There must be - it just seems too big an oversight - I must be missing something, right!?   

[JimH]

I don't know The solution, but I just don't think we've seen this problem before.

[MediaMongrel]

Perhaps the image viewing feature is much less utilized and scrutinized by JRiver's user base, than its audio and video features, I wonder. 

I have noticed for a long time that, after working on images in Photoshop, they often appeared different, even on the same screen, when I opened them in some other apps - not only JRiver.  I just found it a mild irritant not knowing why it was happening, and simply shrugged it off until now.  But after a few Google searches, I believe it's simply a color profile mismatch between what profile is embedded in the image, and what profile the app applies when viewing the image. 

In practice... the mismatch stretching of the profile's color gamut makes skin tones look more warm... adding more red/magenta, I'd say.  I always notice it in skin tones, because almost all my photography features people - not sure where it might be noticeable with other subject matters.

I'm no coder, but this sounds like a relatively straight-forward, low-hanging fix to apply in JRiver.  Certainly much less complex than video playback.  JRiver just needs to identify an image's color profile, and use that when displaying it... again, I'm no expert, but it strikes me as potentially being that simple. 

Could someone on your team look into this for inclusion in version 29, pretty please? 

[MediaMongrel]

Here is a great video on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtIJLIM0uy0&t=276s

And some additional info on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUZh7JuGU8

[MediaMongrel]

Another informative video on color profiles (within the context of Photoshop, but applicable to all apps, as they apply the right or wrong color profile to photos that are being opened):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=071XzduxEqI

And here is a Windows support string confirming the problem in some apps (which happens to extend to JRiver):
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-10-photo-app-not-taking-into-account-icc/76b167d1-76d3-41fc-89d2-e8003b043bcc

[MediaMongrel]

@JimH and/or other admin ...other than acknowledging that this is a previously unnoticed problem, what is now being done about it, if anything? 

To get the ball rolling, I've provided several sources of related information on the topic of embedded color profiles in images, and how there is a known issue with non-color managed applications (like JRiver).  Is this being looked into?  Is a more thorough response on the horizon?  Should this topic be moved to JRiver 29 forum, if that would promote a fix in the newer build?

Thank you.

[JimH]

Unfortunately, we don't pursue problems reported by one customer.  I can't offer any assistance.

[MediaMongrel]

Fair enough.  Then I suppose I will start a new string, geared specifically towards JRiver users, rather than admin, to create more awareness and attention on this. Thanks for explaining JRiver's stance.