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[murray]

I know JR always says to use LPCM rather than Bitstream and I do that, but Ive always wondered what happens to the Atmos tracks I play from time to time, what is removed, cut out etc etc in the sound?

I have an Atmos setup but hate setting JR to bitstream as I can see the frames dropping in a movie as the video clock is disabled when we set JR to bitstream. I know Im not missing anything using LPCM for all film soundtracks, just Atmos, am I loosing anything much on those titles?

When Ive tested Atmos tracks with JR set to bitstream I really dont notice the sound to be any better than when I have JR set to LPCM, but I must be loosing something
Frame drops in bitstreaming are just the most horrid thing and totally spoil a movie for me!.......Being an X cinema projectionist of 35+ years its like watching 35mm with lots of film splices, jumps in the frame 

JR using LPCM is as smooth as butter!

[DocCharky]

If you don't bitstream, I think the Atmos substreams are just ignored.

Atmos is not something you can hear 100% of the time. It's mostly used for overhead sound effects (think rain, thunderstorm, helicopter...) or to create ambiant "bubbles" of sound with "atmospheric" effects (think horror movies, deep dark caves, rainforest...). IMO it's not as essential as surround but when it's (smartly) used it's pretty neat. I also think overhead speakers are pretty much mandatory. So-called "Atmos" soundbars or speakers that rely on bouncing sound waves on the ceiling are placebo.

I totally get why you would prefer perfectly smooth playback over Atmos. But usually (and especially with 4K and newest drivers) bitstreaming doesn't lead to many dropped/repeated frames...

[rec head]

I know JR always says to use LPCM rather than Bitstream and I do that, but Ive always wondered what happens to the Atmos tracks I play from time to time, what is removed, cut out etc etc in the sound?

I have an Atmos setup but hate setting JR to bitstream as I can see the frames dropping in a movie as the video clock is disabled when we set JR to bitstream. I know Im not missing anything using LPCM for all film soundtracks, just Atmos, am I loosing anything much on those titles?

When Ive tested Atmos tracks with JR set to bitstream I really dont notice the sound to be any better than when I have JR set to LPCM, but I must be loosing something
Frame drops in bitstreaming are just the most horrid thing and totally spoil a movie for me!.......Being an X cinema projectionist of 35+ years its like watching 35mm with lots of film splices, jumps in the frame 

JR using LPCM is as smooth as butter!

To be clear: Atmos is only important if you have a speaker setup with ceiling or height speakers and a receiver or pre/pro that handles it.

[murray]

I have a full Atmos setup with in ceiling speakers.

[murray]

If you don't bitstream, I think the Atmos substreams are just ignored.

Atmos is not something you can hear 100% of the time. It's mostly used for overhead sound effects (think rain, thunderstorm, helicopter...) or to create ambiant "bubbles" of sound with "atmospheric" effects (think horror movies, deep dark caves, rainforest...). IMO it's not as essential as surround but when it's (smartly) used it's pretty neat. I also think overhead speakers are pretty much mandatory. So-called "Atmos" soundbars or speakers that rely on bouncing sound waves on the ceiling are placebo.

I totally get why you would prefer perfectly smooth playback over Atmos. But usually (and especially with 4K and newest drivers) bitstreaming doesn't lead to many dropped/repeated frames...

I have the 180Ti card, are there some special drivers there that stop the dropped frames when JR is bitstreaming?

[jmone]

Videoclock is one of the best features of MC but as you point out, does not work when Bitstreaming.  I've several HTPC, one of which feeds a 7.2.4 setup and on this setup I bitstream to get ATMOS/DTS-X (the rest I use decoding and videoclock).  I used to fine tune the timings in CRU to get a profile that would minimise (well eliminate) drops/repeats on this one HTPC for a normal runtime of a movie.  It took hours to fine tune this and also get a signal that my JVC would accept.

Now the good news, is that I've upgraded all my HTPC to Windows 11.  I don't know what changes they have made but frame drops/repeats from drifting clocks seems to have been addressed!  Apart from the start up (and maybe one in the first minute), I now get excellent results without frame drops or repeats using the std nvidia drivers, and MC's auto frame rate switching.  I've tested this on both a 1660Ti (this is one one driving the 7.2.4 setup) and a 3090 (my main PC but only 3.1) using UHD 23.976fps material.  I'm running Dune UHD BD 23.796fps with ATMOS right now as a test, so far 0 dropped/repeated frames (after say 45min).  Will repost the end results.

For me Win11 has been a great upgrade for HTPC users, as I find:
1: HDR ON all the time works well (it tonemaps SDR (including the desktop and apps) --> HDR) so none of that annoying switching between HDR/SDR modes, and SDR looks fine.
2: Sync of the GPU's frequency with the desired media frame rate is much better, leading to much fewer (if any) frame drops/repeats when bitstreaming.

[murray]

Videoclock is one of the best features of MC but as you point out, does not work when Bitstreaming.  I've several HTPC, one of which feeds a 7.2.4 setup and on this setup I bitstream to get ATMOS/DTS-X (the rest I use decoding and videoclock).  I used to fine tune the timings in CRU to get a profile that would minimise (well eliminate) drops/repeats on this one HTPC for a normal runtime of a movie.  It took hours to fine tune this and also get a signal that my JVC would accept.

Now the good news, is that I've upgraded all my HTPC to Windows 11.  I don't know what changes they have made but frame drops/repeats from drifting clocks seems to have been addressed!  Apart from the start up (and maybe one in the first minute), I now get excellent results without frame drops or repeats using the std nvidia drivers, and MC's auto frame rate switching.  I've tested this on both a 1660Ti (this is one one driving the 7.2.4 setup) and a 3090 (my main PC but only 3.1) using UHD 23.976fps material.  I'm running Dune UHD BD 23.796fps with ATMOS right now as a test, so far 0 dropped/repeated frames (after say 45min).  Will repost the end results.

For me Win11 has been a great upgrade for HTPC users, as I find:
1: HDR ON all the time works well (it tonemaps SDR (including the desktop and apps) --> HDR) so none of that annoying switching between HDR/SDR modes, and SDR looks fine.
2: Sync of the GPU's frequency with the desired media frame rate is much better, leading to much fewer (if any) frame drops/repeats when bitstreaming.

Thank you so much jmone for your reply its much appreciated!
As Im a bit green on this side of things, may I ask for more details from you please....

Is the 1660Ti card better than the 1080Ti card?
Do you think I should move to the 1660Ti card if I want to have very few dropped frames with bitstreaming?

I have the JVC NX9 on a 145" curved Stewart STG4 microperf screen, dropped frames when bitstreaming is horrid so I can only use JR LPCM with the JR video clock which is AMAZING! I use madvr HDR to SDR for all my 4K HDR films and it works a treat....

Do you need Windows 11 with the 1660Ti card to stop the dropped frames when bitstreaming? My PC guy just told me windows 11 is SHOCKING! He says its loaded with ads and pop-ups and is afraid they may appear in the middle of a movie which would be horrid!
if I just moved to Windows 11 and stayed with the 1080Ti card would the frame dropes on bitstreaming go away?

Ive had a proper Atmos setup ever since it first came out but never ever used it as I cant live with the dropped frames!

You say sync times are faster but the JVC is slow anyway so surely this wouldnt speed up going from say a 60 film to a 24fps film?

Thank you so much for your help....Looks like I need some further investigating here....
I also years ago tried to fine tune the timings but it was an impossible journey Im sad to say

[jmone]

Hi Murray, my test is still running but I'll post some screen shots and details of how I have MC and the JVC X7500 setup later today, but a couple of quick comments for now:
- Your 1080Ti is fine for now (later 3000 series cards may offer the ability to run better / more intensive scaling algo's but I don't think it will change the frame drops)
- I was using madVR HDR to SDR (and in the test I'm using madVR so I can see some clock info) but now I'm using JRVR as the results are excellent and the GPU overhead is less (but note: madVR still offer some features that you may need/want)
- The time it takes for the JVC to sync to a change in the HDMI signal is no better or worse on different OS (eg, it is the JVC that is slow when changing resolutions/frame rates).  I meant that the sync between the desired / selected GPU Refresh Rate and that of the media being played seems better = lower # of dropped / repeated frames once the JVC has locked on. 

[jmone]

OK, So Dune finished with a total of 2 dropped frames while bit streaming the Atmos Audio (I'd guess it was about a frame drop every 50min or so).

- The first thing to try is to make sure that the in Tools--> Options--> Video--> Display Settings is setup correctly (See Pic).  This should put your GPU into the closest matching Frequency for the Frame Rate of your movie, eg 23.976hz (ish) for a 23.976 film.  Play a movie and see how well (or not well) you go with frame drops / repeats and post a screen shot of the the OSD (cntrl+J when the movie is playing).

- I've also put in the settings I use from JRVR.  I don't expect it would change the frame drop/repeat over madVR but FWIW I think JRVR is the way forward (unless you have a specific feature requirement that is only in madVR).

[murray]

I see you have Display Settings to custom in JR, are those settings exactly the same if one just sets Display Settings to ON?

[jmone]

"Wait after change" used to be nested under Custom and I had to make that 3sec to avoid issues with the audio not syncing.  You should be able to just use "On" (and get the same as what I've set for each frame rate) and be able to set "Wait after change"

[jmone]

So if you are using "ON" and have set "Wait after change" to say 3 sec, you should be good to go.  Play a video and let us know how your frame drops/repeats are going, I'd be interested in how often you get them.....

[murray]

Im just testing now and will report back soon. How many repeats did you get, you only mention 2 frame drops no repeats? Do repeats actually show as a jump or are they nothing to worry about?

[jmone]

I had 2 drops and 0 repeats.  These will be due to the difference in the clocks display frequence vs fps.  If you are getting both drops and repeats (after the first 10sec) then there are other issues to solve first.

Edit - you will notice a repeat as much as a drop.

[murray]

I had 2 drops and 0 repeats.  These will be due to the difference in the clocks display frequence vs fps.  If you are getting both drops and repeats (after the first 10sec) then there are other issues to solve first.

Edit - you will notice a repeat as much as a drop.

Yes Ive realised now that its repeats Im always getting not dropped frames when I bitstream. When I use JR LPCM there are no repeats or dropped frames, just the usual couple at the start up of a film.
Take a look here I played "Death on the Nile" for 52 mins and had 14 repeats, these are the jumps Im seeing in the picture. My settings are the same as yours.

[murray]

Ive just checked again and Im also getting dropped frames with the same display settings as you. 50mins and 11 dropped frames and 14 repeated frames, this isnt good.

[jmone]

I've done a quick test with my 3090 on Win 11 Bitstreaming Audio.  When playback madVR says the starts clock deviation is fairly high and that I'll drop a frame every minute.  As playback continues the expect time for a frame drop increases, from minutes to hours, to days then none at all (over a 10min playback period in the attached screen shot).  The real measure is how many is actually dropped or repeated (rather than expected or the measured clock deviation).  I'd also seen previously these measures change (as apparatnly the chip used for this timing on the audio clock can vary with heat etc).

Anyway, all I can say is that on Win 11 I've got results with stock setup that I had to fine tune on Win 10.  No idea why but it is the same on both my 3090 and 1660Ti.  I've not found any downside to upgrading to Win 11 for HTPC use.... only positives.

[murray]

How long have you used windows 11 and have you ever had any popups or ads appear when playing a film. When I use JR LPCM mine then shows after 10 mins or so no frame drops/repeated frames expected.....

So with all this testing it looks like its windows 11 that fixes the problem is that what you think too?

[jmone]

I've used Win11 since the insider builds on the 3090 PC (so a year ish I guess) and Win 11 on all my HTPC since when it went RTM late last year.  Never seen (or even heard of) popups or ads?!?!?!

My Win 11 --> 1660Ti --> Yami 3070 / Axiom 3ch Power Amp (7.2.4) --> JVC x7500 --> 125" perf screen setup is the one I bitstream on and is many years old (270 chipset).  This is exactly the same gear I had to setup the tuned custom res and "maybe" something is left over from the upgrade from Win10 to Win11 but I doubt it.  I'll probably upgrade the 1660Ti at some point on this system in line with JRVR development to get access to the extra GPU horsepower that may be needed.... but for now I can live with 2 dropped/repeated frames on this setup Vs similar results to what you were seeing.  I'd at one point even setup MC Zones on this HTPC to only bitstream if the Audio track was ATMOS or DTS:X but I've now stopped that as well.  In actually veiwing (without the OSD up), I've not noticed any repeated / dropped frames.... but originally found myself counting down from 50 odd seconds that I originally had when bistreaming. 

The 3090 build has a pretty modern MOBO in comparison so it may have a "better" clock.  I should say, I decode on all HTPCs except for the Win 11 --> 1660Ti --> Yami 3070 / Axiom 3ch Power Amp (7.2.4) --> JVC x7500 --> 125" perf screen as this is the only setup above 5.1 speakers.

So.... I'd suggest:
- Take a backup of your PC
- Upgrade to Win 11 and see if it makes a difference
- Restore your backup if it is a POS, or hopefully do a happy dance!

[jmone]

One other thing to check - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130657.msg910638.html#msg910638

[jmone]

...also Hendrik may have a better insight if there is actually a win10 to win11 difference with this or if it is just a "fluke".

[Hendrik]

I'm not aware of any changes they made to Win11, but I haven't used it yet myself, so who knows.
If I wanted to bitstream personally, I would tune the refresh rate to be as close as possible, it seems complicated at first but its really not so bad. With TVs its also not so hard to find a mode that works, projectors tend to be a bit more finnicky.

[murray]

It looks like we have to try Windows 11 then even if my PC guy doesn't like it. Good to know you have never seen any pop ups or ads in the last year, I'm not sure why he said that was the problem with 11.

[murray]

One other thing to check - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130657.msg910638.html#msg910638

Ok I've made those changes.  My vertical sync wasn't ON and Power Management was on Adaptive as they always used to say that's where it should be, I remember that. I've just changed it to Prefer Max Performance but nothing has changed.

[murray]

I'm not aware of any changes they made to Win11, but I haven't used it yet myself, so who knows.
If I wanted to bitstream personally, I would tune the refresh rate to be as close as possible, it seems complicated at first but its really not so bad. With TVs its also not so hard to find a mode that works, projectors tend to be a bit more finnicky.

Hendrik, so maybe Windows 11 doesnt fix the problem, it might just be a fluke for jmone???
Do you only use LPCM for everything with video clock?

I tried to do the timings many many years ago but I thought it was a nightmare with my JVCs  ?
Is there a simple tutorial if Im to try it again please?
If one could just get it right for 23.97fps do you then have to do all the rest, 24, 50, 60 etc etc?

[jmone]

Re Win 10 vs Win 11.  Only one way to see if it is just my setup!
- Back up
- Upgrade
- Test

FYI - I only tuned 23.976 as that was the majority of the content.  I doubt you can just copy someone else's setting as it is about tuning your particular setup.  I also found the JVC was very picky and you had to make small changes (or else it would fail to display an image).... but I did manage to get it dialled in using CRU.

[murray]

Re Win 10 vs Win 11.  Only one way to see if it is just my setup!
- Back up
- Upgrade
- Test

FYI - I only tuned 23.976 as that was the majority of the content.  I doubt you can just copy someone else's setting as it is about tuning your particular setup.  I also found the JVC was very picky and you had to make small changes (or else it would fail to display an image).... but I did manage to get it dialled in using CRU.

Yes Im going to ask my PC guy to try 11 for me and I will report back. Do you have to buy 11 to test it?
Is there a tutorial you can point me to that I can test the timings for 23.97 while I wait please?

[jmone]

Win 11 is a free upgrade and should appear in Windows Update (note: this is pending if your PC has the required HW & Config - here is a Win 11 compatibility checker - https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11 )

There is this guide on how to use madVR to change some timing that may help - http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html which I did use at some point and it certainly got closer.  I'm not sure I had a Guide to CRU but I'll check.

[murray]

Win 11 is a free upgrade and should appear in Windows Update (note: this is pending if your PC has the required HW & Config - here is a Win 11 compatibility checker - https://github.com/rcmaehl/WhyNotWin11 )

There is this guide on how to use madVR to change some timing that may help - http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html which I did use at some point and it certainly got closer.  I'm not sure I had a Guide to CRU but I'll check.

Thanks for that re 11.
Im going to try a 23 timing today until we can try 11. I dont use the madvr side of things for display mode these days so when one does you wouuld have to make sure display modes in JR are set to OFF, is that correct?

[jmone]

I never used display rate switching in madVR as it is better to use MC as it switches before playback starts - so leave it as is.  I'm running on years old memory here, so just had a look at this option in the madVR diag on two different MC29 setup and the "Custom Modes Tab" option does not appear (well the TAB flashes quickly then disappears).  So I'm out of luck being able to help on testing.  I did find an old print out from a screen shot of my settings however if that helps (but yours will no doubt be different).

[jmone]

...and don't get too excited about the claims of being drop/repeat free for 7.79hours in that screenshot.... it was about 40-50min in reality.

[murray]

...and don't get too excited about the claims of being drop/repeat free for 7.79hours in that screenshot.... it was about 40-50min in reality.

Ive just tried to do the timings again and I now remember from a long time ago it was a nightmare way back then, Ive stopped and given up!
All I have left is to try windows 11

Thank you for all your help jmone, I just wish it had been alot easier....
I really dont know what all the guys who use JR actually do if they want HD audio and need to bitstream, surely they dont live with lots of dropped and repeated frames??
I wish one of the experts on here that love JR would create something better for bitstreaming, that seems to be a forgotten area in JR 

[jmone]

Yup it is was a PITA.

FYI - I just tried bitstreaming on another HTPC (older Shuttle Gen 7 CPU with another 1660Ti --> 5.1) also running Win11.  After 30min no dropped or repeated frames on this one either (as playback continued the expect time for a frame drop increased from sec to about 15-min before I stopped it)

[jmone]

So I don't know if it is Win11, the latest nvidia drivers, or a combination of the two.... but Bitstreaming works pretty well across 3 different setups for me now.

[murray]

So I don't know if it is Win11, the latest nvidia drivers, or a combination of the two.... but Bitstreaming works pretty well across 3 different setups for me now.

Ok thank you so much for all your time you have been extremely helpful. I just have to try windows 11 and see if I can finally bitstream without massive frame drops/repeats.

[jmone]

No probs - It's been intriguing!

Just tested a NUC7 iGPU (Win 11) bitstreaming and it too had 0 dropped/repeated frames after 30min.  This one I had to run using JRVR as it really does not have the horsepower for madVR but is perfect under JRVR.

It would be interesting to see if other Win11 users are seeing the same thing.

[murray]

No probs - It's been intriguing!

Just tested a NUC7 iGPU (Win 11) bitstreaming and it too had 0 dropped/repeated frames after 30min.  This one I had to run using JRVR as it really does not have the horsepower for madVR but is perfect under JRVR.

It would be interesting to see if other Win11 users are seeing the same thing.

Well it certainly looks like you have nailed the dropped/repeated frames when bitstreaming on many PCs. If it isnt Wndows 11 that fixed the issues then what is it!!!

Ive hung off using JRVR even though I bought 29 as Im too afraid it wont match the amazing image I have from madvr. As I was a projectionist for more than 35+ years in Auckland and Sydney im real fussy about my image on the screen. I would move to JRVR if it matched my madvr image but even so it still cant fix the bitstreaming problems......

Your thoughts?

[jmone]

It's great that we have lots of options in MC for what renderer to use.  The good news is that JRVR is at the beginning of it's development cycle and already has some advantages over madVR.  The prime one for me is that it can produce a very good quality image far more efficiently and hence run on a range of HW platforms (and over multiple OS).  It is also much easier to configure than madVR (especially for newcommers).  The big advantage that madVR has is the multitude of options, settings, and tweaks you can play with to "dial" it in as you like.  My biggest screen is a 125" 16:9 (JVC x7500) with a seating distance of about 3meters and I find the image very pleasing being tone mapped by JRVR (but my setup is very straight forward) and we mostly watch high quality UHD sources on this (aka "movie night").  Most of the others are 60" OLED's and HDR Passthrough looks good on these for more casual viewing. 

I'd expect that as JRVR continue to develop and add features fairly rapidly as it is in the early stages of life.  madVR on the other hand is what it is and we may not see much development officially released (though there is the endless testing thread).  So to me it is a simple choice, if there is a particular feature that you need that is not in JRVR, then the madVR option is the one to use.  I don't expect JRiver will be removing the option anytime soon.  I'm not sure how many people will need to use the RO STD (EVR) based profile going forward and suspect that JRVR will become the default in MC.

Another good thing with MC, is you can configure a JRVR profile without it making any changes in madVR or vice versa.  So it is easy to test.  I imagine that JRiver would like feedback from users like yourself on the good, bad, ugly etc of JRVR as it may help inform the current development cycle. 

I live in Sydney so if you are ever in our neck of the woods, give me a bell.

 

[jmone]

Well it certainly looks like you have nailed the dropped/repeated frames when bitstreaming on many PCs. If it isnt Wndows 11 that fixed the issues then what is it!!!

I too hate frame drops/repeats so had been in the habit of always decoding and using VideoClock since its inception (and prior to that reclock).  I've only started bitstreaming on the 7.2.4 setup to get Atmos/DTS:X etc, so I don't know if the others would have been fine or not prior to the testing over the last few days.  All I can confirm is that I had to manually tune the 7.2.4 setup to get drops/repeats down to something acceptable prior to Win11, but now all systems seems to be pretty good (well I'm guessing there will be 1 or 2 drops/repeats over a typical movie).

The good side effect, is that I used to sit in movie nights looking and waiting for the stutter.  Now I actually don't even think about it and just watch the actual movie.... which is kind of nice!

[jmone]

I'm not sure if it matters but what is your 7.2.4 setup?
GPU: 1080ti and are you on recent drivers?
CPU:
RAM:
AVR/Pre/Amp:

[murray]

I'm not sure if it matters but what is your 7.2.4 setup?
GPU: 1080ti and are you on recent drivers?
CPU:
RAM:
AVR/Pre/Amp:

I dont know if Im on recent drivers or not. Ive never updated that sort of stuff as everytime I hear someone on the doom forum do so they seem to break something else....
Take a look here my setup, scroll more to the end to see the current setup. The projector is wrong in the thread as I havent updated everything. Currently JVC NX9 but I have ordered the NZ9 but its a very long wait to get any since the factory has moved back to Japan.
https://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=RapalloAV

I dont mind if I had 2 dropped or repeated frames in a whole movie, but I cant live with them every 5 mins or so!

[jmone]

Mate great setup!  You are keeping NZ economy pumping all on your own.

I'd seriously suggest trying the latest driver.  I found in my testing (all those years ago) that they made a big difference.  I've got scribbled notes of that page I scanned with wild variations between them on frame drops/repeats - some were 15sec, others 5min, 15min etc.  From memory the 5min drops was "fixed" and pushed out to 50min with a later driver.... again this was all years ago.  Touch wood, but it may be that simple???

[murray]

Mate great setup!  You are keeping NZ economy pumping all on your own.

I'd seriously suggest trying the latest driver.  I found in my testing (all those years ago) that they made a big difference.  I've got scribbled notes of that page I scanned with wild variations between them on frame drops/repeats - some were 15sec, others 5min, 15min etc.  From memory the 5min drops was "fixed" and pushed out to 50min with a later driver.... again this was all years ago.  Touch wood, but it may be that simple???

Ok I will do it! can you tell me how to do it please?

[jmone]

On the HTPC, go to https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx and fill in the details for your card which I presume would be as follows

Product Type:   GeForce
Product Series:   GeForce 10 Series
Product:   GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
Operating System:   Windows 10 64-bit (? or are you 32-Bit Windows ?)
Download Type:   Game Ready Driver (GRD)
 Language:   English (US)

It will download the latest driver and you just install it.  When it asks you to "Agree and Continue" change the option above the button from "NVIDIA Graphics Driver and GeForce Experience" to "NVIDIA Graphics Driver".  Click through the next screen (it will keep your settings).  Reboot and test.  If weird stuff happens then we can do a "clean" install next.

[murray]

On the HTPC, go to https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx and fill in the details for your card which I presume would be as follows

Product Type:   GeForce
Product Series:   GeForce 10 Series
Product:   GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
Operating System:   Windows 10 64-bit (? or are you 32-Bit Windows ?)
Download Type:   Game Ready Driver (GRD)
 Language:   English (US)

It will download the latest driver and you just install it.  When it asks if you to "Agree and Continue" change the option above the button from "NVIDIA Graphics Driver and GeForce Experience" to "NVIDIA Graphics Driver".  Click through the next screen (it will keep your settings).  Reboot and test.  If weird stuff happens then we can do a "clean" install next.

Ok Ive asked my pc guy to update the drivers for me as Im too afraid to mess something up

[jmone]

Fair enough!

[jmone]

...and also get him to do all the latest Windows 10 updates!

[rec head]

You guys have me curious. My HTPC is almost exclusively bitstreaming UHD/Atmos these days and I don't notice frame drops or repeats and wondering if I'm not sensitive to it or not having a problem. My rig is old and using a 1060 GPU. I'll run it for a while and check my stats.

[rec head]

I just checked and after the first few seconds I had 0 dropped or repeated frames during a 30 min test.

Win 10 up to date.
Probably not the latest Nvidia drivers but fairly recent.
It has been a long time since I set it up but I can look up specific settings if it would help.
Could the difference be that I use a TV? HTPC-> HTP-1 (pre/pro)-> C1 (TV)

[JimH]

Murray,
Give jmone's instructions a try.  I'd bet on him over most PC guys.

On the HTPC, go to https://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx and fill in the details for your card which I presume would be as follows

Product Type:   GeForce
Product Series:   GeForce 10 Series
Product:   GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
Operating System:   Windows 10 64-bit (? or are you 32-Bit Windows ?)
Download Type:   Game Ready Driver (GRD)
 Language:   English (US)

It will download the latest driver and you just install it.  When it asks you to "Agree and Continue" change the option above the button from "NVIDIA Graphics Driver and GeForce Experience" to "NVIDIA Graphics Driver".  Click through the next screen (it will keep your settings).  Reboot and test.  If weird stuff happens then we can do a "clean" install next.