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[comox]

Something has changed in how images are displayed between 29.0.31 and 29.0.38 that I do not like.

In the past if I double clicked an image it would open full screen, with escape to close and return to where I was.

Now when I double click an image it switches to the Playing Now tab and displays the image in the smaller Playing Now Window which I have to double click again to see full screen. Then have to remember and select the tab I came from to get back to what I was doing.

If I do not have a Playing Now tab open then it works the way it used to work. Unfortunately I always have a Playing Now tab.

Is this change intentional? Is there an option I can adjust to make it work the way it used to work?

[JimH]

comox,
Check your settings for Tools > Options > General > Behavior.

[comox]

I have already checked Tools > Options > General > Behavior.   I see:

Jump on play (audio): None
Jump on play (video): display view

I'm wondering if images used to respect the setting for video but no longer do?

Perhaps we need a new setting:

Jump on play (image): display view

[comox]

bump

Matt, any chance of an option for General\Behavior\Jump on play (image) ?

Or perhaps restore image play behavior to how it was around 29.0.31.

Before starting every tag editing session I now have to change my Playing Now tab to something else, then restore it to Playing Now when I finish editing, which is a pain in the posterior.

Thanks.

[Matt]

Image playback will always jump to display view.

[HPBEME]

In the past if I double clicked an image it would open full screen, with escape to close and return to where I was.

Now when I double click an image it switches to the Playing Now tab

There is a setting right above the two "jump on play" options called "double-click…", where you pick from six items as to what happens when you double-click a library item (since that is how your launching the image). 

The first five are all some variation of displaying the item double-clicked in playing now window, with the last option being file properties.  I tried them all, and when I double-click an image, weirdly none of them go to playing now as indicated in the menu item.  Instead they all go straight to display view, just as Matt indicated.  This excludes the last double-click menu option file properties, which opens the tag window (which is the setting I have always used myself). 

I scrounged around a bit to see if maybe there were other settings that might weirdly interact, but nothing I tried made a difference.  Maybe try switching to the file properties option, then one of the five playing now options, and maybe after that it will ironically go straight to display view like it did before? Obviously that should not work, but you never know.

[comox]

Matt,

Double clicking an image always jumps to Playing Now, unless I do not have a Playing Now tab open, in which case the image goes to display view as desired.
Playing an image goes to Display View as you say.

Any chance we can make double click behave like Play like it used to?

HPBME, I tried setting double click to file properties with no change in behavior.

[HPBEME]

Just to be clear, when you change the double-click behavior setting to file properties, and you double-click an image, it takes you to the playing now window and shows the image? It doesn't show the tag window with the selected image's tags?  If so, that is extra weird.

Either way, the fact that double-clicking the image switches to the playing now tab (if you already have a playing now tab open) instead of going to display view, I am unable to duplicate that behavior. No matter what combination of settings I use for images (except for double-click/file properties) it always goes straight to display view. And like you, I always have a playing now tab open. I wonder if others are experiencing the same thing as you.

Have you tried restoring a backup/settings prior to the time you upgraded to MC 29 0.31?  If you happen to have MC 28 or other earlier major version still installed, it might be worth checking to see how those behave with the double-click (now). 

[comox]

Thank you HPBEME for your help.

The fact you're not seeing it must mean one of my settings is different.

I thought there might be different behavior for imported and unimported images but have ruled that out as a cause.

I'll investigate and come back.

[marko]

I am seeing the same as comox, but, in testing last night, it was wierd...

Playing Now tab open (along with around eight other tabs).
Found a set of ten pictures in a different tab.

Double clicked the first one and it switched me to the Playing Now tab.
Went back to my images tab, double clicked another, and it behaved correctly, display view, then another double click to return.

It seemed random. It wasn't related to the image position in the list, nor the image orientation. Sometimes it would jump to the Playing Now tab, and sometimes it behaved.

To clarify, the "sometimes" refers to me double clicking on all of ten pictures (all jpg) several times in the space of a couple of minutes.

Just typing the clarification has made me wonder if the times that it worked as expected only worked because the previously clicked image was still 'playing'. I will check again tonight if necessary.

[comox]

Marko, I too am seeing something weird, but it's repeatably weird.

Playing Now tab open.
Go to different tab with image.
Double click image: jumps to Playing Now tab
Go back to tab with image and double click image: opens in display view (as I want)
Double click image: jumps to Playing Now tab
Go back to tab with image and double click image: opens in display view (as I want)
etc.

In other words, it oscillates between Playing Now and Display View.

I see similar oscillating weirdness when I change option to General\Behavior\Double-click: File Properties

Now when I repeatedly double click the image the tag window oscillates between open and closed.

Also, contrary to what I said to Matt previously, right click Play (instead of double click) also oscillates as above.

One additional clue, selecting an audio file with cover art inside and then repeatedly clicking Cover Art\View (first file) also oscillates.

[rolf_eigenheer]

I also discovered strange things that could be related to the described effects.
MC29 behaves differently than its predecessors in terms of image playback. Describing it is not easy.
Adding images and audio files to the playlist behaves differently depending on what is currently running.
If I add an image to a playlist with audio files (Add next) then the image is inserted into the playlist one time, and it is displayed full screen the other time. This depends on whether playback is running and what media is currently being played.

The playback of images parallel to music playback often does the right thing. But for the user, the behavior is difficult to predict. It is possible that 'Playing Now' will play pictures and music one after the other. In other situations, 'Playing Now' only plays music and a hidden list plays the pictures. What do the Play/Pause Next/Prev Track buttons do in this situation?
Wouldn't it make sense to treat this hidden picture playlist as a normal playlist of its own zone?

There are additional problems in Theater Mode. In standard mode I start a playlist with pictures and another with music. While the playlist with music is active, I switch to theater mode. Under Playing Now I can now operate the music and switch to the other zone which plays images. But there is no way back. The menu item for selecting the zone is now missing.

Being able to assign pictures, music and videos to a selectable zone would make everything easier to understand. And the possibility of being able to configure the image output in the same way as the sound output would allow videos and images to be output on different monitors.

[comox]

Matt, if you're working in this area, please consider making data files play the same as image files as I requested here:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132235.0.html

[HPBEME]

Okay. I think I have figured this out, and you know what… it actually makes complete sense in retrospect... at least for how I have MC configured.  My set up is similar to what Rolf suggested in his last post:

Wouldn't it make sense to treat this hidden picture playlist as a normal playlist of its own zone?

I have a zone dedicated to showing images that is automatically switched to when an image or image playlist is launched. If that image zone is already active (whether in stop mode or playing) when I double-click an image from another tab, then it is shown in the active playing now zone (which in my case, is the image zone). If any other zone is active (stopped or playing) when I double-click an image (in a different tab), then it goes straight to display view. I have confirmed that this behavior is 100% repeatable.

I think the alternating aspect that Comox and Marko are seeing is related to what they have set for double-click and perhaps in combination with other settings. What I think is happening in their cases is that with each subsequent image launch, the active zone is activated and deactivated, which would result in toggling the image being displayed in playing now, and then display view. Hopefully that makes sense - it is difficult to say for sure, because I have zone switch set up to automatically change zones when images are being played, where I'm not sure that Comox and Marko do.

So the key is: note which zone is active in your playing now tab, then go to a tab with images, double-click to launch an image, and note the resulting display behavior.  Then go back to your playing now tab, click on a different zone to make it active, return to a tab with images, double-click an image and see how that behaves. Repeating this process several times will allow you to correlate which zones will show the image in playing now, and which will go straight to display view.

Hopefully Comox, Marko, and Rolf can experiment with the above steps and confirm a repeatable pattern.  In addition, can the same users please confirm if they experience a 5 second lag before the image shows?  This lag was not there a few weeks ago, but it is becoming increasingly irritating.  I'm curious if this is just a me problem, or an MC problem (v29.0.50).

[marko]

By default, MC plays images in its own dedicated zone. I have never, ever set one up. MC has always used this approach, and it has worked well.

Double click any image in a list, it's shown full screen, in Display View, double click on this full screen image to close and return to the list you first double clicked from. Regardless of any other tab that may or may not be open. It's that simple. Or at least, it used to be...

This is no longer the case. There is no need to be interfering with double click settings. Mine is set to "replace playing now (all)" and always has been, for ten years or more. Something is off with the current builds, because, as Matt says,

Image playback will always jump to display view.

and currently, this is not the case, but it should be.

[HPBEME]

By default, MC plays images in its own dedicated zone. I have never, ever set one up. MC has always used this approach, and it has worked well.

You are absolutely correct, but for clarity, one should note that the "dedicated zone" you reference is hidden. It is for this reason that I created a forced "visible" image zone that MC would switch to via my zone switch rules. I happen to find this to be useful, but I imagine others would not.

As for my other "revelations" regarding double-click settings etc., it was only my attempt to figure out why images NOW sometimes show in the playing now window, and other times in the display view. I was able to repeat how/when this behavior occurs 100% of the time. That said, this may not be as Matt/J River intend, but it is the reality. To me there is logic in how it is currently behaving, but if it is changed (back) to always go to display view no matter what, that is probably better as it would lead to less confusion (clearly !!!)

[marko]

You are absolutely correct, but for clarity, one should note that the "dedicated zone" you reference is hidden.

Here's another observation regarding this... remembering my setting is "Replace Playing Now (all)"

If there is nothing currently playing, regardless of whether or not MC switches to the Playing Now tab, or goes directly to Display View, every image in the list that was double clicked on is listed in Playing Now.

If there is music playing at the time, then that "Playing Now" list is left untouched and no matter what I've tried, that jump to the Playing Now tab never happens. Everything behaves as expected.

Stop music playback and try again, and, the 'jump to the Playing Now tab' returns.

also...

In addition, can the same users please confirm if they experience a 5 second lag before the image shows?  This lag was not there a few weeks ago, but it is becoming increasingly irritating.  I'm curious if this is just a me problem, or an MC problem (v29.0.50).

Images are displayed immediately for me. I experience zero lag.

[HPBEME]

Thanks Marko for the info regarding the lag time. My computer crashed not too long ago, and after I rebooted the lag issue was gone.  I don't reboot every day, but I swear I've rebooted a few times since the lag issue came up, but whatever… Just glad that it is now "fixed".

I think the bottom line is that displaying images does not behave as it used to, along with some eccentricities that I believe have always been there. In any event, hopefully the JRiver team will resolve this.

[rolf_eigenheer]

I think the bottom line is that displaying images does not behave as it used to, along with some eccentricities that I believe have always been there. In any event, hopefully the J River team will resolve this.

I chose the following workaround for myself. In the living room, One MC for music runs on the first computer (connected to the amplifier) ​​and another MC for slide shows runs on a second computer (connected to the TV). This is the only way I can control the music (play/pause, forward/backward, insert/append additional tracks) while having the same controls over the image playback on the second computer.

Of course, it would be nice if one day this would also be possible with a single computer.
In principle, MC has all the necessary techniques. Zones and the ZoneSwitch fullfills the basic requirement. But then it fails because of the little things. The use of the screen or screens by the zones is not organized. If several zones make image outputs (also album covers), Theater Mode behaves strange. Events in a Playlist in Backround switches Display from one zone to the other. Sometimes photos are displayed in fullscreen, sometimes inside the PlayingNow Page. And it becomes even more complicate when working with detached windows. While moving from one menu entry to another in Theater Mode detached Window sometimes closes and sometimes TheaterMode is terminated.
- During the photo display, the menu entry for changing the zone is missing in PlayingNow. But sometimes it is there. It seems dependent on what media types are in the playlist or whether the playlist is finished.
- During the photo display, the menu entry for full screen is missing in PlayingNow. When adding an image, it appears briefly in the full screen, then it switches back to the Playing Now display.
- If the photo gets the focus while the slide show is running, it can no longer be left with the keyboard or remote control. There is no going back to the menus. Up/Dn only toggles between image rendering options and Backspace has no function. Then only the exit with the escape key helps, but this immediately leads back to the standard mode. This is unsuitable for operation without a mouse or touch screen.

This last point cannot be avoided even with my two computer setup. If you add pictures to the playlist in Theater Mode and switch between the menu items, you will quickly notice where you get stuck when you're working with the keyboard or remote control only.

What feels complicated for users may also be confusing for developers. Wouldn't a simplification and clear structure help everyone?
- No 'hidden' zone for images. Instead, preconfigured ZoneSwitch for separate zones for audio/video and images.
- Only the Active Zone makes outputs inside the MC application
- Zones can have 'detached windows', which can also be assigned to a specific screen in full-screen mode through the zone configuration. Similar to the assignment of audio devices.
- Each zone has configurable actions. I.e Activate Zone when adding titles, Start playing when adding titles, Show PlayingNow when start playing, Show in FullScreen

This could be preconfigured so that existing users would see the same behavior as in the past. With the advantage that the 'hidden' image zone would be a regular zone and no longer prevents controlling the audio playlist

[marko]

That all seems very complex. If I've understood correctly, this would also break our favorite theater view smart lists. These contain a mix of audio and photos, and when "play all" is selected, the slideshow displays whilst the audio plays...

Crucially here, in this scenario, the user has control over the music, which means tracks can be skipped with remote if desired. The girls love these theater view options that I carefully crafted for them. These cannot stop working 😀

[rolf_eigenheer]

That all seems very complex. If I've understood correctly, this would also break our favorite theater view smart lists. These contain a mix of audio and photos, and when "play all" is selected, the slideshow displays whilst the audio plays...

Crucially here, in this scenario, the user has control over the music, which means tracks can be skipped with remote if desired. The girls love these theater view options that I carefully crafted for them. These cannot stop working 😀

I fully agree with you marko. This functionality may not be lost.

 
The zone switch functionality allows proper handling for each MediaType (or any other database attribute).

It is possible to add all kind of media in one Playlist, which will be played one by one. A video file, followed by an image (with no sound) and then an audio track.

If the zone switch is configured to send video and audio into one Zone and images to the other zone, then Image playback is parallel to the audio playback. This would be what you had in the past. Switching the Zone would switch from images to audio thumbnails or video. This allows controlling both playlists independently.

Zone switch can be configured to send only audio into one zone while video and images are sent to the other Zone. Images and videos would be played one be one without sound, while the audio playlist is playing.
This is extremly nice when playing slideshows with short video sequences where sound is not desired. Because zone switch can use any database field, it would be possible to send cinema movies to the 'audio' zone while sending short videos from the smart phone to the image zone. If you still want to hear the original sound from that videos, just add the monitors audio output to that zone.

Since I have a lot of portrait oriented images. I would add a zone associated with a monitor in portrait orientation. Zone switch would send all portrait images and videos to that zone.

[rolf_eigenheer]

Here is an example with detached display (Ctrl-6).

In the man cave, there is my third MC. This is different from the setup in my living room which I was talking in the post before.
MC is operated from the small DIY Keypad on the right side of the portrait oriented Monitor. Usually the TV is off. MC is displayed on the smaller screen, because the other one is too big when youre close in front.
For watching movies I have to detach the window (Ctrl-6), move the Window to the TV screen, double click on it and then finally the movie is played on the big screen. Sadly, these steps need to be repeated every time and they require a mouse.  And while browsing the lib on the small screen, sometimes the detached display closes for no obvious reason and Theater Mode terminates.

That works in principle. But it is simply not stable and cannot be operated by third parties.

[comox]

Interesting discussion about playing images with music. Suggest we also give a little love to data files because some of us want to read about our music while it plays. I think data files should behave like image files since they both contain static visual information.

Also, if work is going to be done on cleaning up zones, please fix this issue of dialogs going to the wrong zone:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,130860.msg

[JimH]

You're probably right. We'll see what we can do.

[Yaobing]

I am trying to understand what the issue is.  You guys have brought up a large number of things, but image playback has not changed for a long time.  The behavior should be the same as in MC28.

[marko]

Hi Yaobing,

First and foremost, primarily, and most importantly, and reproducable...

Open a "Playing Now" tab.
Open another tab that lists images.
Double click one of those images.

What we are seeing is, instead of that image opening in display view, MC switches to the "Playing Now" tab and shows the image in the small display area there.

Would be great if that could get sorted. Thank you.
If it matters, my "double click" settings in MC's options are "replace playing now (all)"

-marko

[Yaobing]

So having the Playing Now tab open seems to be the key here.  I see that MC alternates between showing the image in Playing Now and showing in Display View.

[Matt]

And we're changing a coming build.  Thanks for the prompts.