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[danbez]

Hello, I spent a few hours evaluating JRVR as a potential replacement for my current MadVR scenario. While I am happy with MadVR, I want to move on to a solution that is more active developed and remains focused on HTPC scenarios.

Main Scenarios: Achieve best possible quality image on my projector - JVC RS500. I only have 1:1 rips of Blu-Rays and UHD. No web downloads, DVD, 720p quality goals.

a. State of art upscaling from Blu-Ray rips to 4K. So far I like what I saw from JRVR and based on initial tests I would say it's on par with MadVR.
b. Best in class tone mapping to SDR, while keeping BT.2020 color space.

So far I have encountered two issues with JRVR - they may be user errors since I am still learning - but I would like the input from the experts here:

1. How can I setup JRiver to output full RGB? I always had full RGB across the chain - NVidia, MadVR, Projector. But with JRiver, my projector is receiving limited RGB. and worse, because I must leave NVidia as Full RGB (to avoid extra compression), my projector wrongly detects it as Full. I have to change the projector settings from Auto to Limited, which messes up with my other inputs. MadVR allows me to specify how I want to output as part of its settings.

2. JRVR allows me to choose the color Gamut - Auto, 709, BT.2020. However, none of those options fully work for my scenario - 709 for Blu-Ray rips, BT.2020 for HDR->SDR tone mapping. Again, I can do that with MadVR profiles but I can't find a way to automate that with JRiver. Keep in mind that use the resolution as a proxy for this decision is not ideal - some 4K titles are not HDR/BT.2020 - such as Great Escape - so ideally I would like to see a "follow source" option there.  Any other way to handle it?

Thanks! I do love how fast it is and less taxing on my GPU, when compared with MadVR.  And great progress on Dolby Vision! As I posted in another thread, I confirmed that Profile 5 and 7 metadata (RPU+MEL) are properly handled by JRVR. Only FEL support left :-).

Cheers
Daniel.

[Hendrik]

1. Full RGB is the ouput JRVR always renders to. As long as everything else is also setup to Full RGB, thats precisely what you will get. Not sure where your chain is going wrong, but JRVR cannot create anything but full RGB currently.

2. The Gamut setting should be based on the "native" gamut of your display device, and not typically relate to the source color. Maybe explain what you are trying to achieve?
If you were to swap gamut based on content, you would also have to somehow swap the operating mode of the projector to expect a different gamut, if this is something you do?

We are planning for some profiles to try to handle this, if it turns out to be necessary.

[danbez]

Thanks for the reply Hendrik.

on 1. Are there any logs I can provide or look myself to help understand the issue? It's clear that I'm getting Limited output. If I setup my projector to full, the image is washed out. Setting it to Limit makes the image similar to what I get with MadVR on Full.

on 2. What I want to achive are the following two scenarios: (both can be done with MadVR using profiles today):

A. When watching Blu-Rays, I want the color gamut to be set as BT.709 since that's what the source has. No uncessary conversion to BT.2020, although in theory it should work fine. When watching Blu-Ray rips, I set my projector to BT-709 as well.

B. When watching UHD, I first tone-map them to SDR (peak 100 nits). However, I don't want a gamut "downgrade" to BT.709. I want the same BT.2020 gamut as used in the source, just tone mapped to my 100 nits peak. When watching UHD on my projector, I do set the gamut to BT.2020.

As of today, I don't see a way to have this automatically done by JRVR today. In the limited test I did yesterday night, I noticed that Auto gave me BT.709 for both Blu-Ray sources and UHD sources tone-mapped to SDR 100 peak.

[Hendrik]

If you actually swap the gamut your device expects, then yes, you would also need to swap the setting in JRVR.

Profiles is the next big topic we'll work on, but it'll be another few weeks.

The "Auto" option also has potential to become smarter - assuming I can actually tell which mode your display is in, and dynamically swap. But that depends on many factors, including if the device communicates this, and if the graphics card exposes that data properly. I can work on trying to support my part of it, if at all possible, but everything else might still be up to each and every device. This was always intended, hence it being separate from BT.709, although right now it is always BT.709 unless you use HDR Pass-through.

[danbez]

If you actually swap the gamut your device expects, then yes, you would also need to swap the setting in JRVR.

Profiles is the next big topic we'll work on, but it'll be another few weeks.

The "Auto" option also has potential to become smarter - assuming I can actually tell which mode your display is in, and dynamically swap. But that depends on many factors, including if the device communicates this, and if the graphics card exposes that data properly. I can work on trying to support my part of it, if at all possible, but everything else might still be up to each and every device. This was always intended, hence it being separate from BT.709, although right now it is always BT.709 unless you use HDR Pass-through.

Thanks Hendrik. I handle the communication with the projector via HDFury, using built-in Macros the HDFury guys added to support this functionality of the JVC projector (the HDFury basically tells the projector if the input is BT 709 or BT-2020, and the projector changes the profile as needed).

One simpler implementation on your side would be to add another option : " Follow source gamut" - and let the user (or in my case my existing automation) to take care of the configuration. This would not be the default option, but it would be nice to have it there.

If not possible, profiles would be good to have as well. In MadVR, I define which profile to use based on the color space of the source video.

Cheers