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[tzr916]

I've had to resort to an EDID device to trick my MC Server PC into thinking the "main monitor" is always on. But I seem to be having an issue getting RGB Color Format working at 4k resolution when the Dr HDMI 4k device in is the mix. I've been going back and forth with HD Fury help, but all of their suggestions have made no difference. Details below:

Windows 10 PC set to 4k60 with nVidia GT1660ti connected through Dr HDMI 4k into Sony XBR-65Z9D, using Cable Matters certified 48Gbps 8K HDMI Cables. Good news, the following Dr HDMI 4k setting is working (holds through reboot of PC and/or turning Tv Off/On) but it's not RGB color format:
GREEN #5 – 4k60-420-8b-300M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO


Bad news, I cannot get any of the following to work:
CUSTOM – Extract Sony EDID with MonInfo, upload into DH4K
WHITE #8 – COPY DOWNSTREAM EDID (from Sony tv)
GREEN #1 – 4k60-444-600M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO
GREEN #2 – 4k60-444-600M-3D-FULLAUDIO
GREEN #3 – 4k60-420-12b-450M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO
WHITE #5 – 4k60-420-12b-450M-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO

For some of them I initially get a picture, and for all of them, after rebooting the PC, Windows display settings and nvidia control panel are only showing 1024x768 or 800x600, and there's a RED X on the audio device. No answer from HD Fury on why this is occurring.

Wondering if it would help if I change the Windows 10 "Generic PnP Monitor" driver using an INF created from my Sony MonInfo? Anything other thoughts?

Thanks for looking

[JimH]

Read a little about cables and HDCP if you haven't.  Here's an example of what you'll find.

https://www.howtogeek.com/208917/htg-explains-how-hdcp-breaks-your-hdtv-and-how-to-fix-it/

I had a problem a few years ago when I bought a Samsung Blu-ray player to connect to my receiver.  I found that all HDMI cables in the setup had to be HDCP compliant.  Changing one cable solved the problem.

No idea if this is your problem.

[tzr916]

Cables are not the issue.
1. I get full RGB @4k60 when Dr HDMI 4k is not connected.
2. I always use MonoPrice 4k certified hdmi cables. HD Fury support recommended trying specifically Cable Matters certified 48Gbps 8K. Turned out to be a waste of $20, because it didn't help at all.

[JimH]

Certified speed doesn't guarantee HDCP.  Read a little.  I think they say HDCP on the cable.  There are versions of HDMI.

I know I'm telling you what you may already know, but ...

The order of how devices are turned on may also matter.

AVSForum is the best source of information on HDMI that I know.

[jmone]

Some BIOS allow you to set a persistent EDID (so you don't need items like a the Dr HDMI 4K), eg https://www.intel.com.au/content/www/au/en/support/articles/000033413/intel-nuc.html.  That said, I've not had to use an EDID device for many years on my HTPCs, and it may be that they all go via modern AVRs that seem to provide the EDID persistence in Standby Mode. 

EDID is separate from HDCP and is for OS to autoconfigure their video & audio output options to be compatible with the downstream AVR & display device.  The issue is that when some of these devices power off, windows then no longer sees them and defaults to some baseline settings.  This can lead to undesired auto and video rendering options only being available to MC.  Devices like the Dr HDMI 4K should be able to either "learn" your specific EDID and keep transmitting it to the HTPC OR allow you to select your preferred formats to keep a persistent EDID exposed to the HTPC.  I've no idea why tzr916 has issues with the HD Fury as it should "just work" (my much older DVI Detective certainly did). 

[jmone]

Looks like nvidia will also let you save your EDID to a file then read it back.... may be worth a try? - https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3569/~/managing-a-display-edid-on-windows

[tzr916]

Thanks, I've already seen that. Unfortunately those advanced "Workstation" options are only available if using a Quadro video card.

...the following Dr HDMI 4k setting is working (holds through reboot of PC and/or turning Tv Off/On) but it's not RGB color format:
GREEN #5 – 4k60-420-8b-300M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO

So, I have achieved the desired effect of holding MC Theaterview on the main monitor through turning Tv+AVR Off/On, and/or powering other monitors Off/On, and/or reboots of the PC, at will... But it's not RGB.

The problem is getting the PC to properly recognize 4k60 RGB EDID stored in the Dr HDMI 4k after rebooting the PC. Windows wants to default to 1024x768 or 800x600, and no audio device.

HD Fury seems to be stumped, saying it should just work... But it don't 

[JimH]

Is there anything else special about your Windows PC?  Anything related to video that other people might not use?

[jmone]

It should "just work" with the Fury..... so no idea on that (but it does sound like a Fury issue) - dumb question, but do you have it around the right way in the chain (as my DVI Detective had an input and output)?  Also, any BIOS option for EDID persistence to try?

[tzr916]

GTX1660ti connected to Input of Fury.
Tv connected to Output of Fury.

No dice on anything EDID related in the Gigabyte h270m-d3h mobo BIOS. Only thing sort of related is "Initial Display Output" specifies the first initiation of the monitor display from the installed PCI Express graphics card or the onboard graphics, which is already set to PCIe 1 Slot Sets the graphics card on the PCIEX16 slot, where the GTX1660ti resides.

[jmone]

Long shot.... The only other thing I can suggest is that as the TV and Fury have an 18gbps HDMI chipset, make sure that when at 60hz you are always in 8 bit mode or it will force you into 4:2:0 as 18gbps can not handle RGB/4:4:4 @ 50/60hz at 10-Bit.

[jmone]

...and you have to use HDMI port #2 or #3 on the TV to get 18gbps (others have 10gbps further restricting the signal options).

[tzr916]

Using hdmi 3 and enhanced mode since I unboxed the tv. HDR and DolbyVision work perfectly using all external equipment like nVidia Shield Pro, Sony UBPX700, Roku, FireTv, Comcast 4k cable box. All through a Denon AVR. And when I do NOT connect the Dr HDMI 4k, I get 8bit 4k60 RGB through the Denon to the Tv.

HD Fury Support says the following should work with my setup:
• COPY DOWNSTREAM EDID
• 4k60-444-600M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO
• 4k60-444-600M-3D-FULLAUDIO

Hotplug, I see 4k picture on Tv but after rebooting the PC reverts to 1024x768 or 800x600, no audio device. Also, removing the Denon for testing.
 

Thread on AVS Forum chatting with HDFuryhelp starts at:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/hdfury-dr-hdmi-4k.3056314/page-15#post-61864436

[JimH]

...and you have to use HDMI port #2 or #3 on the TV to get 18gbps (others have 10gbps further restricting the signal options).

Did you miss this?

[tzr916]

Using hdmi 3 and enhanced mode since I unboxed the tv. HDR and DolbyVision work perfectly using all external equipment like nVidia Shield Pro, Sony UBPX700, Roku, FireTv, Comcast 4k cable box. All through a Denon AVR.

[jmone]

I'm a bit confused.  Do you go HTPC --> Denon --> Fury --> Sony TV... or HTPC --> Fury --> Denon --> Sony TV... or something else?  What model is the Denon?

[tzr916]

...Also, removing the Denon for testing....

PC > Dr HDMI > Denon AVRX2200W> Tv

[jmone]

That is exactly how it should be.  The Dr HDMI should either be "COPY DOWNSTREAM EDID" combining the EDID from the Denon and the Sony to present to the HTPC /  or the "4k60-444-600M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO" profile.

My only other suggestions, are
- Turn off fast boot on the HTPC.... or check if there is a change in behaviour between a Reboot and a Shutdown/Power up
- Check in the nvidia Control Panel that none of the resultion/frame rate combos at set to using 10-Bit....
- Do a clean install of the nvidia driver (even use DDU to make sure).

Other Qs:
- Is the behaviour the same with/without the Dr HDMI (eg is the Dr HDMI doing anything at all?)
- Do you have a 2nd display connected to the HTPC or a Virtual Display driver loaded?

[jmone]

WHITE #8 – COPY DOWNSTREAM EDID (direct from Sony tv)

This is wrong.  It should be the "Copy Downstream EDID" with the Dr HDMI connected between HTPC and the Denon with the Denon and Sony TV ON.  This gets the combined EDID which you need.

[tzr916]

Tried copy downstream with and without Denon, same problem.


I've done DDU, and latest driver.

Not doing any 10 bit or other custom timings in the nvidia CP.

Behavior with Dr HDMI is different, I get 4k60 but it's not RGB... YCbCr420

Yes there are other displays via oboard intel graphics, but they are always physically disconnected during testing.

[jmone]

When it is in 4k60 YCbCr420 is it 8 or 10-Bit in the nvdia panel?  ... as if you try to force nvidia on HDMI2.0a to 10bit 4K60 it will push you from RGB to 4:2:0. 

It may also be something about Windows trying to use the onboard intel graphics, not finding the attached display and defaulting.  Try turning off the iGPU in the BIOS for testing. 

[tzr916]

8 bit. Control panel won't allow anything but YCbCr color.

Hmm windows finds the correct gpu when Dr HDMI is set to 4k60-420-8b-300M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO, but I can try disabling on board gpu for testing.

[jmone]

So hot plugging "fixs" it, but is that hot plugging the Dr HDMI into the HTPC or the cable that goes into the DR HDMI from the Denon or something else.  If the Dr HDMI is "working correctly" you should be able to plug in/out anything after the DR HDMI without Windows noticing a thing.  If Windows does notice something, then the DR HDMI is not doing it's job.  If it is between the HTPC and the Dr HDMI then it is doing it's job, but for some reason windows is not seeing the EDID info after a reboot (did you try a cold boot?). 

[tzr916]

Hotplug just means, all the physical connections are in place (PC > Dr HDMI >  Tv only or Tv+AVR only) while pressing buttons on Dr HDMI to change between EDID tables. So, if I press buttons to change from the current working EDID table to one that HDFuryhelp says should work, I see the picture on the tv flicker/black out then come back On. The desktop may come back as 4k, or it may come back 1024x786. If it does pop up as 4k, when I reboot the PC, it reverts to 1024x768.

Yes, cold booted (leave Tv+AVR On):
-PC On using the current working EDID table
-power PC OFF
-disconnect Dr HDMI (input and output)
-disconnect other monitors
-change Dr HDMI from working EDID table to one that HDFuryhelp says should work
-reconnect Dr HDMI
-do not connect other monitors
-power PC On
-boots up and is 1024x768

And I have Factory Reset the Dr HDMI 4k twice, connected it via USB to my laptop to verify current firmware, view and upload a few different MonInfo EDID tables, etc.

[jmone]

I'm out of ideas.  You may want to test the Dr HDMI with the laptop as the source to see if it is faulty.

[tzr916]

I got both of these working:
WHITE #8 – COPY DOWNSTREAM EDID (with Tv+Denon in the mix)
GREEN #1 – 4k60-444-600M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO

Had to use DDU in Safe Mode, then just let Windows install nVidia drivers (v456.71). This survives rebooting. If I install latest nVidia driver (v516.94), I get full RGB 4k60 picture but after reboot it goes back to 1024x768. Forcing me to repeat DDU Safe Mode & let Windows install v456.71

But a few problems:
- first, when using GREEN #1, my tv is not recognized as HDR capable! So I have to use COPY DOWNSTREAM which correctly recognizes tv as HDR capable.
- second, if I turn the AVR Off/On, the Tv shows a BLANK screen "no signal" message. AVR passthrough does not work at all. I can turn the tv Off/On no problem, but not the AVR and not both, no matter what order. This completely defeats the purpose of the Dr HDMI device!

Something really strange about the second problem:
- when AVR passthrough isn't working and/or powering the AVR Off/on is resulting in "no signal" on the tv, if I remote desktop into the HTPC and toggle the refresh rate from 60 to 59 (or vice versa), the picture magically appears on the Tv! Until the next time I power the AVR Off/On.
-note that AVR passthrough AND powering AVR+Tv Off/On still works fine with the non-RGB
GREEN #5 – 4k60-420-8b-300M-HDR-BT2020-3D-FULLAUDIO


All I can say is THIS SUCKS

[jmone]

Yes it sucks.

What happens if you use DDU (Safe Mode) to uninstall but Don't let Windows do the update to v456.71 and manually do a install of 516.94 (so it is not upgrading from 456.71 to 516.94)?

[tzr916]

I might have time on Saturday to try that. Until then, I can just leave the AVR On 24/7, only power the Tv Off/On when required.

I'm just not very confident it will have any effect on the AVR passthrough issue (no signal on tv toggle 59/60 refresh to restore), because it happens with both GREEN#1 4k60-444-600 and WHITE#8 COPY DOWNSTREAM. And I've seen it before during first install and testing of the Dr HDMI 4k.

Something else I'm wondering - Now that COPY DOWNSTREAM is working at 4k60 8bit RGB with HDR, I can see all of the following color formats in the nvidia CP drop down:
RGB
YCbCr444
YCbCr422
YCbCr420


I already know that YCbCr420 doesn't do HDR, but AVR passthrough was working when using that EDID bank. So what if I tried YCbCr444 or YCbCr422 - Would I loose HDR? or loose any picture quality/features? Perhaps one of those plays better with the AVR passthrough?

[jmone]

Leave it in RGB.  All processing on the HTPC (incl JRVR/madVR) is done in RGB.  You could try YCbCr4:4:4 and the pro's and con's are here.  You would only move to YCbCr (with either 422 or 420 chroma) if you needed higher than 8-Bit UHD 50/60fps on a 18gps HDMI link ... or have some specific compatibility need (signal compatibility with a display device, external chroma upscaler) etc. 

It may be worth seeing if the Denon AVR and/or Sony TV has any firmware updates as it could be an upstream issue.  I've previously seen complaints with Denon's on EDID but it was years ago. 

[tzr916]

I was able to clean nvidia drivers via DDU Safe Mode, physically disconnect PC from network, reboot and install v516.94 directly, and get 4k60 RGB 8bit. And, it survives rebooting the PC, no more 1024x768.

But no change on the AVR passthrough issue. Still get no signal+blank Tv screen when powering AVR Off/On. I can get picture back on Tv screen by toggling GPU refresh 59/60 or 60/59.

Seems I will be leaving my AVR On for the rest of my life.

[jmone]

Well good news about getting on the recent drivers and having HTPC end sorted out. 

On the Denon Side, I'd make sure your are on the latest firmware, play with the HDMI options.... but there is a whole set of posts with similar black screen issues issues - https://www.avforums.com/threads/denon-avr-x2200w-avr-x3200w-owners-thread.1970691/page-270:

HDMI Pass Through
Even when the power to this unit is set to standby, signals input from the HDMI input connector are output to a TV or other device that is connected to the HDMI output connector.

HDMI Control
If you connect the unit and an HDMI control function compatible TV or player with an HDMI cable and then enable the HDMI control function setting on each device, the devices will be able to control each other.

Power off link
This unit power off can be linked to the TV power off step.

Audio output destination switching
From the TV, you can switch whether to output audio from the TV or the AV amplifier.

Volume adjustment
You can adjust this unit’s volume in the TV volume adjustment operation.

Input source switching
You can switch this unit input sources through linkage to TV input switching.
When playing the player, this unit input source switches to the source for that player.

[tzr916]

I have ditched this POS Dr HDMi 4k. Completely disconnected from the chain, for good, not going back.

Now I am doing some playing around with HDR from this PC, and the colors are washed out on my Tv screen. This is if I enable HDR in Windows settings (testing only), or when I play an HDR video file in JRVR. The Tv screen blacks out for a second and it when comes back the colors are muted, desktop or videos. If I pull up the Sony Tv picture settings menu, the HDR Mode indication is NOT On, as should be like when playing something from built in apps, or Sony Bluray player, or Shield Pro, or Roku, etc. Incredibly, if I chrome remote desktop into the system, the colors are over saturated on the laptop screen!

Some quick facts:
1. Windows display settings confirm Display capabilities > Use HDR = Yes and Use WCG apps = Yes. But I am NOT enabling HDR in Windows display settings when using JRVR.
2. JRVR says Screen is HDR capable = Yes. I have both check marks checked.
3. When not in HDR mode, my Denon reports 4k60, RGB, 8bit
4. When playing HDR video, my Denon reports 4k60, BT.2020 RGB, 8bit -isn't this supposed to be 10 bit?

JRVR ctrl-j screen shot...

[jmone]

8 bit is fine for HDR.  The screen shot is showing that JRVR is outputting HDR.  The Denon is also reporting HDR (well 2020).  No idea why the TV is not switching (my Sony does but that is via a Yami AVR)

[tzr916]

Somewhere in all this, I had disabled auto hdr switching in the tv picture settings. Working now. I am groot

Have something coming in the mail that I'm hoping will help with my multi-monitor AVR passthrough issue.
https://monitordetectkiller.com/

[tzr916]

Have something coming in the mail that I'm hoping will help with my multi-monitor AVR passthrough issue.
https://monitordetectkiller.com/

MDK having same issue as Dr HDI 4k - Get "no signal" on Tv screen when powering AVR Off/On. I can get picture back on Tv screen by toggling GPU refresh 59/60 or 60/59. Only choice is leaving my AVR On forever.

[tzr916]

Sadly I've resorted to a workaround - program harmony remote to drop to Standard View and go back to Theater View when powering the AVR+Tv Off/On.

EDIT - This was completely resolved by using the following EDID hardware device
https://atlona.com/product/at-etu-sync/