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Author Topic: JRiver Web Site  (Read 5335 times)

antenna

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2022, 07:48:19 pm »


OK, my first usual comment for improving a message forum board and website is to make it easy, while within the message forum, to go to the main website, i.e. the home page.

But that seems to have been thought of and accomplished here.  I just need to scroll up to the top of a page and click on the JRiver media Center thing.

Cool.  That is a rarity among the many fora I visit. 

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Shellac: Shure M91, Shure N75-3 stylus,  Dual 1218 turntable

Apt Holman preamp (updated), Benchmark Media ADC-1, Benchmark Media DAC-1, Carver TFM-45 power amp (updated), Original Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers (LF surrounds replaced), Sennheiser HD590 headphones

antenna

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2022, 07:55:27 pm »

First suggestion:  ...

Yep, yep, yep.

I've referred friends to this site's home page and the feedback I got was along the lines of, but what does it do?

The home page is an important landing spot.  The main function should be along the lines of, ~what can Media Center do to help you enjoy the  media you enjoy?~



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Vinyl: Shure V15VxMR, Shure VN5MR stylus, VPI Scout turntable
Shellac: Shure M91, Shure N75-3 stylus,  Dual 1218 turntable

Apt Holman preamp (updated), Benchmark Media ADC-1, Benchmark Media DAC-1, Carver TFM-45 power amp (updated), Original Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers (LF surrounds replaced), Sennheiser HD590 headphones

blgentry

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2022, 08:14:20 pm »

Jim, you clearly think your web site is good enough as it is.  I disagree.  But I won't offer any more suggestions about this, as I don't think it's productive.

I love your product.

Brian.
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antenna

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2022, 09:30:38 pm »

Jim, you clearly think your web site is good enough as it is. ...

If so, why does this thread exist?

 
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Vinyl: Shure V15VxMR, Shure VN5MR stylus, VPI Scout turntable
Shellac: Shure M91, Shure N75-3 stylus,  Dual 1218 turntable

Apt Holman preamp (updated), Benchmark Media ADC-1, Benchmark Media DAC-1, Carver TFM-45 power amp (updated), Original Acoustic Research AR-9 speakers (LF surrounds replaced), Sennheiser HD590 headphones

JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2022, 09:32:26 pm »

Jim, you clearly think your web site is good enough as it is. 
Brian, don't give up.  I said this above.

Yes, it could be improved ... 

Specific suggestions on how to improve what we've got would be very welcome.
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HPBEME

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2022, 11:29:15 pm »

I told this same story in another thread about how I first came to JRiver, but will repeat it here as it relates directly to Jim's question.

A friend strenuously recommended I try MC. I thought great, I have been auditioning a number of music players, why not check this one out as well. This was around 2006/2007.  The friend had emailed me a link, I clicked on it and went to the site. My immediate reaction was... "Wow… This site looks really dated. Is this site legitimate? Maybe my friend's link was really old and I'm actually at their discontinued site? Are they still in business?".  This was 15 years ago, and the site has not really changed in any significant way since.

This obviously is not the initial reaction you want from anyone being exposed to JRiver for the very first time.  And if I had the reaction (and I am personally aware of half a dozen others who had the same reaction), how many potential new users over the last 20 years also had that reaction? Thousands upon thousands I have no doubt. In spite of my reservations, I went ahead and downloaded the trial (well it was actually the free Media Jukebox at the time), and indeed, it offered features that I really liked. My question is though, how many people had the same reaction I did, and went away without ever trying it.  Or... how many of those went away, came back 2, 5, 10 years later, and saw the website had not been updated/improved, and thought "yeah, not ever gonna buy that program".

The 1st impression is everything. Site visitors turned off enough will ultimately go with a different media player. If you blow that first crack at a new customer, the chances of turning them into an MC user at some point in the future are extremely low.  I can already hear some current MC users objecting saying "hey, I used to use program such and such and hated it, and I switched to JRiver". I can only say that users who switch represent the tiniest of minorities.  It is simply human nature - once you have invested time in, and are comfortable with, a given program (media player or otherwise), you're not likely to switch, even if you have problems with it.

I'm not a webmaster, so I won't pretend I know specifically what it is you should do to improve your site.  You should hire somebody who does that for a living. They will ask you the right questions, and then create a site that is beautiful, modern, and of course, functional. 

And please remember - the super hard-core users who frequent the forum on a daily/weekly basis are NOT your entire user base.  In fact, they are but a tiny slice. According to your forum stats, there are 57,000+ users.  I would guess 1,000 of those are heavy forum users. And how many people who own your program never even bother to register to use the forum?  I'm speculating, but I gotta think that's another 10 or 20,000 - maybe even substantially higher. Either way, there is a significant chunk of media player users, including the vast majority who use MC, who simply use it for basic music organization/tagging, to play music and look good while doing it. They're not writing expressions, not creating complex smartlist driven views, not looking for the most cutting edge DSP tools... none of that. Updating JRiver's website with those sorts of users in mind would be enormously beneficial.

I desperately hope you are not insulted and thereby completely put off by this post. You know I love this program Jim… You know I have put thousands of hours of my own time into creating skins.  I desperately would love to see MC grow and grow and grow. That is my motivation - to offer some brutal honesty in the hope that it leads to changes that improve J River's bottom line, which will in-turn help MC continue to be best in class.
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mattkhan

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2022, 01:57:50 am »

What's wrong with looks old?  Mona Lisa, Eiffel Tower, Pyramids, etc.

I don't want to be in the fashion business.  We build tools.

We're never going to do well selling to people with short attention spans.  That's not our market.
Looking old and unchanging for a media player looks like a pretty bad option to me, implies stale and stagnant to me

Do you actually think your website needs to improve? 
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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2022, 07:25:43 am »

I'd be happy to change it if it is a real improvement.

I'm not keen to change it for the sake of change or to follow someone's idea of "modern".   We could waste a lot of time for no real gain.

Most of the discussion has been short on specific suggestions.

I said this earlier, but the purpose of the home page is to give an overview of what JRiver does, and to direct people to what they are in interested in:  audio, video, TV, photos, network, forum, DevZone.  That's essential, in my opinion. 

With that in mind, take another look at the home page again and make specific suggestions that you think would improve it.
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rec head

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2022, 07:27:09 am »

I'm still in agreement with everything said. The Mona Lisa looks timeless. The MC website looks abandoned. To compare the two is ridiculous. An example of a modern looking site that wasn't the extremes of Google, Apple or Netflix was given. It is a good place to start.

All of MC is a weird mix of really dated and really cutting edge.

Here is one very specific recommendation for the current website: The way the boxes (I don't know the technical name) are stacked with Network directly over Forum it looks like it is the Network Forum. Continuing on it looks like Home Theater (HTPC) Wiki etc.

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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2022, 07:35:12 am »

Let me say it another way. 

Form follows function (Mies van der Rohe). 

We're not in the fashion business. 

Specific suggestions are welcome. 
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lepa

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2022, 07:48:15 am »

Me personally as an old user don't need the web site at all. I just browse the forum. For new user the situation is completely different. As a new user I would check out the web site to see what this program offers. Now I don't know how many new customers modernized web site (doesn't mean bloated or hard to find anything) would actually secure but for me it is kind of show case of the product what you are building and what you are proud of.

For example I would advert the actual features the program has with real life examples. There are no mentions or images of Alexa support or about HDR/DV support, Spotlight or many other stuff you have been recently working with. No mentions of multi OS support or mobile remotes or where to get them. Images on web site are possibly century old and many links go to wiki pages. It's fine but I wonder how many of new user will actually open those links and how technical it gets there.

And when I say "no mentions" I'm sure the information is there somewhere behind the links but I think you should really promote all the cool stuff you have created so the other than forum members would also see them :)
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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2022, 08:49:06 am »

... for me it is kind of show case of the product what you are building and what you are proud of.

For example I would advert the actual features the program has with real life examples. There are no mentions or images of Alexa support or about HDR/DV support, Spotlight or many other stuff you have been recently working with.
Our problem is that, if we went into detail like that, it would be a very long list, and I think it would overwhelm many new users.
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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2022, 08:50:59 am »

When people say "modern", what do you (anyone) think is meant?

I notice that some sites like Apple have a long scrolling home page.  We tried to avoid that, but maybe that's what's expected now.
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zybex

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2022, 08:53:36 am »

- simpler main landing page (not much to remove from there, just reorganize). Advertise your main products and target platforms. A single large picture of a guy listening to an high-end audio system with MC logo somewhere goes a long way to convey quality
- add a Features page, broken down into expandable sections.
- add a comparison of Editions/platform solutions, and perhaps MC vs Competition page
- separate the Purchase and the Download pages
- add a screenshots page for each product, or add more screenshots where relevant in other pages. Prospective buyers have short attention span, and eye candy is more important than text.
- add pages for the Remotes and Android/Mac/Linux versions, and whatever other products you have. Large-format paintings should perhaps go in your other site ;)
- add some testimonials (tacky, but effective)
- no links into the wiki/forum (or as limited as possible, except of course main menu links). It's jarring.
- modern look/UI/layout. You may not like it, but this is for potential future customers, not existing ones.

Taking a look at the roon/plex/kodi webpages you can clearly see the contrast to MC. Whether you like it or not, that is what's expected nowadays.
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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2022, 08:55:47 am »

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zybex

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2022, 08:55:51 am »

Our problem is that, if we went into detail like that, it would be a very long list, and I think it would overwhelm many new users.

Features are the single most important thing for a new buyer (after price). Just break it out into multiple pages if needed: "supports over 50 audio formats and 25 video formats" -> then click it to expand to the list, or to open a new page.
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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2022, 09:14:00 am »

Features are the single most important thing for a new buyer (after price).
I'm not sure that's true.  Power users want features, but many people want quality and simplicity.
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dtc

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2022, 09:55:42 am »

I'm not sure that's true.  Power users want features, but many people want quality and simplicity.

That's one of the features.
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HPBEME

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2022, 10:03:26 am »

When people say "modern", what do you (anyone) think is meant?
In the context of this thread, I would interpret "modern" to mean highly effective (that is certainly what I meant by it in my previous post).

I notice that some sites like Apple have a long scrolling home page.  We tried to avoid that, but maybe that's what's expected now.
Yes… "modern" also means reflecting what is currently expected. Using the latest website design elements and being highly effective are not mutually exclusive. Done well, both aspects naturally go hand-in-hand.
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zybex

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2022, 10:08:17 am »

That's one of the features.

Exactly.
Though in reality I don't think MC is that easy for a beginner. Perhaps one section of the site could be a series of youtube tutorial videos. Or maybe that's a totally different endeavor.
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JimH

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2022, 12:45:14 pm »

Exactly.
Though in reality I don't think MC is that easy for a beginner. Perhaps one section of the site could be a series of youtube tutorial videos. Or maybe that's a totally different endeavor.
I've thought about making a beginners board.

One thing that's overlooked is that people who don't have problems usually find no need to post.  Many of those are beginners. 

We also have problems with first time users trying to run before they walk. 
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rec head

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2022, 04:52:58 pm »

I understand why keeping everything on one page that doesn't need scrolling appeals to you Jim and it makes sense but I think scrolling a webpage is expected these days.

Another specific recommendation I can make is where is says Download have links to each OS. That will advertise that there are different versions.
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drmimosa

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Re: JRiver Web Site
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2022, 02:39:36 pm »

Add auto-resizing and width scaling for lines of text and image boxes, so that the current website content automatically scales to different widths in a browser.

Currently jriver.com content is either too small to see, or truncated while zoomed in, while using narrow width browsers (most mobile browsers for example). Also you can see this when you snap a desktop browser left or right, text doesn't scale and adjust to browser width on smaller laptop screens.

[edit]
Same is true for the forum. It works well on full screen desktop browsers, but on mobile I'm always pinching and zooming and scrolling left and right to read.

Adding width scaling would automatically make your website more attractive, without any changes to content.
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