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tkolsto

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« on: October 21, 2022, 10:07:03 am »

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newsposter

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2022, 01:23:15 pm »

video drivers up to date?
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2022, 03:57:53 pm »

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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2022, 04:07:25 pm »

I have a pc benq GL 2580 monitor. I used to get somewhat smooth play some 6 or 8 months back. Now it is all choppy movement. It will only display 59 or 60 hz. I think back then I was able to get sync 23.976 hz or I remember wrong and most monitors maybe dont display 23 hz.  but I at least got smooth play. Very strange that I can not watch movies anymore at my pc monitor which I could do before. I now have windows 11. Back then I had Windows 10. I have a GT 1030 2 gb card and I use 1080p movies. I have vsync enabled. I recon many people here at the forum is using a pc monitor watching movies smoothly. In osd I get 59 hz and no glitches repeated frames or framedrops during playback. It is the same on my lg oled tv B1, but there I use dejudder at 7 that give me smooth play. I have a rtx 3050 on my tv pc and if I try to render movie at 60 hz I get the same bad result as I see on my monitor.  In jriver I have done the normal settings like in general madvr advanced setting i set windowed mode to present 1 picture and not 8.

cpu ryzen i7 2700x, 16 gb ram, win 11 64 bit. ("office pc").

If most monitors are not able to do 23 hz, why is it not possible got get smooth play. Erlier I got much better motion than i do now.

What could this be? I have not watched any movies for some time now, but I never had any problem at watching movies before

23/24 to a 59/60 display, MadVR Smooth Motion needs to be on so it can do whatever pulldown it does.
23/24 doesn't go into 59/60, hence you need pulldown.

Also, this seems to be a persistent problem for you dude. I'm really not sure what to suggest.....  Could be Windows 11 I guess? I haven't moved any of my media playback systems over to it so I can't really comment on issues there. Did this all start when you moved to Windows 11? I have a few VMs running 11 but I haven't switched anything serious over. I'll probably have to move one of the real systems over to 11 for DirectStorage crap ( -_- ) anyways so I guess I'll report in whenever that happens

P.S, chroma scaling should be set to NGU if you can afford the processing.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2022, 05:24:24 pm »

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JimH

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2022, 06:22:32 pm »

You have problems that come and go.  That's not likely to be a problem in MC.
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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2022, 06:34:45 pm »

You have problems that come and go.  That's not likely to be a problem in MC.

Agreed. This all sounds like something very unrelated to MC or possibly even MadVR. Now that you've mentioned this not happening before when you were on Windows 10, vs 11...... Dude, did you really do all these steps without trying to go back to Windows 10 and see if the issue resolves itself?

Can't really be of help here as I haven't validated 11 for my media playback purposes.
Frankly, you should stick to 10 for the foreseeable future unless you need DirectStorage, or some of the Android Subsystem features (you can get WSL2 x11 apps on 10) . Nothing else 11 does is worthwhile, it somewhat fixes HDR for desktop apps but you still shouldn't be doing HDR for you general desktop computing anyways.
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JimH

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2022, 06:38:49 pm »

The only way to isolate a problem like this is to change one thing at a time and test thoroughly for more than a few minutes.  It could be anywhere.  Setting up a second machine would give you the ability to swap parts, etc.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2022, 03:48:13 pm »

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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2022, 03:56:33 pm »

even my tv resetted itself and turned picture mode to eco which is out of the box settings and even the ratio got changed and I got black bars on both sides of the screen.


That's super weird dude. I dunno, it seems unlikely that your GPU overheating because you decided to mess with it would break you television in such a specific manner but I guess anything is possible. Typically, breaking something like the HDMI input board will just lead to it not working but I *guess* it's possible.

Guess you're gonna have to buy a new TV? That sounds like incredibly annoying and expensive advice but hey, it might be worth it.
Weird question, are you friends with any electronics / audio dealers in your area? You *might* be able to find someone who doesn't mind you bringing a PC with a test file and trying it on a demo display like a C1 or C2.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2022, 04:27:47 pm »

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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2022, 04:38:25 pm »

No I dont have any such friends, but I was thinking the exact same thing. So I tried to do that where I bought the TV, but they turned me down, because of security measures. They dont allow outside pc to connect to their models. Very dissapointed because they had the C1 in their line up.
Yeah, some big box store isn't going to let you do that (nor should they, it would be a nightmare) hence why I mentioned more of a 'dealer' that you have some kind of existing relationship with.
I mean you could buy a C1 and return it, assuming the policy allows for something relatively hassle and expense free. That's pretty lame and way more effort than it's possibly worth. It would put this to rest though, or at least cross off another variable.

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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2022, 05:52:22 pm »

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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2022, 06:02:52 pm »

how about ram? could they be making trouble. I now have crucial brand.

Absolutely but unless you're experiencing general instability or outright crashes, bad ram is an unlikely culprit. Earlier this year I actually had 2 sticks of Corsair LPX go bad, it was very hard to diagnose and presented itself with frequent bsod's and ultimately a very confounding case of ssd corruption.
Why not try new RAM? You never can have enough RAM
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JimH

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2022, 08:39:45 pm »

I agree with Eve that, if you had a memory problem, you'd see general instability.
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PPMPPM

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2022, 06:13:46 am »

I've similar problem. Many years I used MC with madvr (d3d 11 playback without lots of postpocessing and scaling) on i5-8400 with GTX 1080. Everything was super smooth on my FullHD Sony projector on 24fps. Now I've changed card to RTX 3080, install latest drivers. Rest of components or settings in programs stay the same. Games, stress test - everything is fine. But there is strange playback issue in movies. Like dropped or freezing frames in every second. But Ctrl+J info says there is no dropped or delayed frames. I think on PJ it's more present than on 4k monitor. GPU load is 15-20% max so it's not a problem.

But changing renderer to JRVR makes playback supersmooth. I think in terms of quality it's little worse from madvr but for now it's only solution to my problem.
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PPMPPM

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2022, 06:15:37 am »

I forget to add that playing in another program like MPC-HC with madvr produce that same effect - jerky playback. So problem is not inside MC.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2022, 06:48:20 am »

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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2022, 01:45:10 pm »

I've similar problem. Many years I used MC with madvr (d3d 11 playback without lots of postpocessing and scaling) on i5-8400 with GTX 1080. Everything was super smooth on my FullHD Sony projector on 24fps. Now I've changed card to RTX 3080, install latest drivers. Rest of components or settings in programs stay the same. Games, stress test - everything is fine. But there is strange playback issue in movies. Like dropped or freezing frames in every second. But Ctrl+J info says there is no dropped or delayed frames. I think on PJ it's more present than on 4k monitor. GPU load is 15-20% max so it's not a problem.

But changing renderer to JRVR makes playback supersmooth. I think in terms of quality it's little worse from madvr but for now it's only solution to my problem.

This sounds like what I had when I initially got the C1.

I had a piece of software monitoring my GPU, something called Telegraf that I use with InfluxDB for time-series monitoring across all of my hardware. Every time it would poll Nvidia SMI for the GPU stats, there was this tiny video hitch, like visually but nothing in MadVR to indicate it.

I only even thought about it because I realized that the 'interval' for these hitches happened to be the exact interval that the monitoring software uses. I wouldn't be surprised if this was long since fixed, or unique to me BUT, it's something to consider. Try seeing if you have monitoring software running.

EDIT for clarity: When this happened, the issue with Nvidia-smi, it wasn't happening on a 23/24/60hz 1080p display, only the C1 at 4K 120hz, further adding to the confusion. Seriously, it was incredibly unlikely that I was able to trace this problem to a specific piece of software, so you may have your work cut out for you and finding what's causing your problem.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2022, 02:52:03 pm »

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eve

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2022, 04:39:52 pm »

P.S, chroma scaling should be set to NGU if you can afford the processing

What is so good by choosing ngu? what are the benefits and er are several ngus. I have read about it on doom9 but dont fully understands this. Is there some short answer. I get that one shouldnt use this simontaniously with super res.

from doom9: NGU Family: {variable super slow} [medium] madshi's own Next Generation Upscaling. A sharp doubling algorithm with minimal artifacts. NGU Soft, Standard, and Sharp can also quadruple the luma in one step. The Anti-Alias version is softer but reduces aliasing and is more tolerant of source artifacts. Works in Windows XP.


what is doubling? or just is there simple way of explaining what is good about this ngu setting and what is most like the best setting between standard soft and sharp or anti alias.

when I have chose pixel shader in madvr hdr setting and also set chroma upscaling to ngu default setting which is anti aliasing low, I get a rendeing time between 15 and 21 milliseconds. Is that good enough or recommended or should milliseconds be desireable to a lower value like let say approx 10 milliseconds.

NGU is for me, the best scaling algorithm I've seen implemented in real-time, well.... It's the most consistent with a wide variety of content and produces superior results to the other scalers in MadVR and frankly, still bests the stuff I've been messing around with in MPV (occasionally, I can get better results but its content dependent). There are better scaling algorithms out there but performance / consistency isn't there yet. Now that GPU prices aren't ridiculous, I will definitely be playing with things more. I've had some success messing around with massively threading 'offline' scaling algorithms, that might prove interesting in the future.

Doubling is another 'step' where the image is upscaled larger than it should be and then downscaled again (using whatever downscale filter you use, I use ssim) . This can lead to a better final image.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2022, 07:00:08 pm »

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PPMPPM

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2022, 07:05:57 pm »

I've done some testing. It's strange. I used latest nvidia drivers 522.25 - it's only software change since installing RTX 3080 (for test I also switch back to 471.11 - from June 2021 - same thing). When I play in madvr with D3D11 or exclusive mode then I get jerky playback (but info Ctrl+J says everything is fine, no drops or repeated frames). When I switch to madvr overlay everything is back to normal - smooth playback. With JRVR it's fine too. In my opinion quality of madvr overlay is similar to JRVR. But I think D3D11 have slight advantage - better colors and "3d like". Or maybe it's only autosuggestion :)

So problem is with madvr (with my RTX 3080 LHR card) not MC. I want to switch to JRVR but I can't properly set HDR to SDR conversion - I put 50, 200, or 500 in target nit but always get that same dark picture (changing value not change output brightness, shadows are crushed). With madvr everything is fine with 200.

So for now I'll stay with madvr overlay.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2022, 07:10:19 pm »

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JimH

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2022, 07:22:47 pm »

Firewall and antivirus are different.
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PPMPPM

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2022, 12:50:05 pm »

I found another thread with my problem: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=131139.0

And this is solution:
If you have a Nvidia 20xx/30xx video card and you encounter micro stutter while using madVR
without actually dropping frames, please try the following:
◦ In the Nvidia control panel, go to Manage 3D Settings, scroll all the way down and set
Vertical Sync to 'On'. You can do this either globally or just for the media player exe.
◦ In the madVR settings, go to rendering -> general settings, and uncheck 'enable automatic
fullscreen exclusive mode'
◦ In the madVR settings, go to rendering -> windowed mode settings, and set 'how many
video frames shall be presented in advance' to 1 or a maximum of 3

Last one solve my problem. I set to 1 and stutters gone.

Thanks to everybody. Such a helpful community.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2023, 07:49:28 am »

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JimH

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2023, 08:06:50 am »

You shouldn't have to use madVR any longer.   JRVR is better for most cases and uses less power.  It's also easier to set up.
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tkolsto

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Re: pc monitor smooth play
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2023, 08:28:13 am »

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