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[Manni]

Regarding the above, I can confirm that currently MC31 doesn't use the black bar detection metadata when used as an external player (in my case by CMC, I'm testing the alpha V7.0 that supports MC31).
A title that has black bars detected and the picture stretched when played from within MC doesn't have the picture stretched when MC is launched as an external player.
Please could you confirm that you plan to implement this (use black bar metadata when the title is in the library and the black bar detection for that title has been done?) for the upcoming vertical shift feature (though I assume it will be implemented for all black bar related features, crop / stretch etc).
Otherwise please could you add an option for real-time black bar detection? Even if it uses some processing power, it's better than nothing.
Thanks!

[Hendrik]

Regarding the above, I can confirm that currently MC31 doesn't use the black bar detection metadata when used as an external player (in my case by CMC, I'm testing the alpha V7.0 that supports MC31).

This actually works fine for me, you just have to make absolutely sure that the path passed to the play command is exactly the same as the path stored in the database, otherwise it won't be able to link the files.

[Manni]

This actually works fine for me, you just have to make absolutely sure that the path passed to the play command is exactly the same as the path stored in the database, otherwise it won't be able to link the files.

OK thanks, I'll check this with CMC.

Any (even vague) ETA for the vertical shift feature?

[Manni]

Re the above, have you tried with BD / UHD BD Folders?

Looking at the library, the titles are saved as \path\title\index.bluray, but the actual path to the title (the actual file name) is \path\title\index.bdmv.

That might explain the issue?

[Manni]

Re the above, I checked and CMC sends the correct file:

Player Commandline= /Mode Theater /PlayReplace "\\A4K\4kbdmv\Lucy\BDMV\index.bdmv"

So it looks like the issue lies with the way MC's library saves the name when using BD folders.

[Hendrik]

We can't provide an ETA. As for the path issue, it'll work if it matches, if it doesn't then it's mostly up to you to make it match. This is not an extremely common case for us to worry about.

[JimH]

CMC?

[Manni]

We can't provide an ETA. As for the path issue, it'll work if it matches, if it doesn't then it's mostly up to you to make it match. This is not an extremely common case for us to worry about.

Understood about the ETA, disappointed with the answer about the BD folders bug. MC’s library is inventing a file path that doesn’t exist by changing the extension of the actual file name. I don’t see how I could ask another developer to make up for that. Why should they invent a fictitious file name? The file will likely not play anyway if a non-existing file name has to be used to match the invented one in the library.

Anyway, that’s a dealbreaker for me, so I’ll just stop testing JRVR. No point to keep investigating if it can’t be used in the real world. Too many issues (especially ATMOS drop outs) that don’t happen with madVR.

For Jim: CMC is Chameleon Media Center, a front end that uses MyMovies collection management. I use it as a front end and JRiver as an external player. It works great with madVR. It does many things that MC doesn’t: unified collection management for HTPC, Dune, Oppo with the same front end on iPad; it imports all my titles (unlike MC) and handles WOL (for offline shares) and lights… Using MC on its own isn’t an option for me, and vertical picture shift is a key feature for my use.

[JimH]

If there is a bug, we'll fix it.  So far, I don't see it.

Never heard of Chameleon Media Center.  I understand that you won't change, but MC is probably a replacement for what you're doing with it.  We've done WOL for a long time, just as an example.

[Manni]

If there is a bug, we'll fix it.  So far, I don't see it.

Never heard of Chameleon Media Center.  I understand that you won't change, but MC is probably a replacement for what you're doing with it.  We've done WOL for a long time, just as an example.

The bug is that Hendrick says that the path has to match exactly the one in the library, but the path in the library when using BD Folders points to a file that doesn't exist (index.bluray in the library but index.bdmv on the share).

I assure you that there are many features missing in MC for a standalone use as a front end, at least for me in a cinema room:
- same collection management for Dune, Oppo and HTPC
- network playback (with beautiful wall/front end) from iPad app for Dune, Oppo and HTPC
- automatic lights handling on movie start / pause / stop (vera lights)
- better TV Series handling (direct choice of episode, keeping track of watched episodes, etc)
- all the titles in a share are imported (as you know from the other thread, MC import misses many inexplicably)
- supports mymovies categories accross all network playback devices
- better wall interface (JRiver theater view is dated and not great for search and category filters etc (I have more than 3600 titles in my collection, all 1:1 ripped to folders from my discs, except 3D ripped to ISO).
- It's free now, so not an extra cost above the JRiver license, but I paid for it too when it was paid for.

I've worked closely with the developers of MyMovies and CMC to implement all this over the years. JRiver is my player of choice (since MC19, license renewed 9 times!) because of its excellent BD menu support and madVR support. But for my own use it's way behind as a front end (I don't use audio, only film an TV shows playback, so I can't comment on that side).

Re WOL, I knew JRiver supported WOL for the library, I didn't know that it supported WOL for offline media shares. Please could you point me in the right direction re setting up WOL when a title is offline?

[mattkhan]

Practically speaking seems like an easy one for CMC to workaround  so I would report it to them, would think that is fastest route to a fix

[Manni]

Practically speaking seems like an easy one for CMC to workaround  so I would report it to them, would think that is fastest route to a fix

How would pointing to a file that doesn't exist resolve the problem?

The standard name for this file is index.bdmv, not index.bluray

[mattkhan]

If  MC needs to match that against the value in the filename tag and the value is consistently using a bluray suffix rather than bdmv and CMC is integrating with jriver then CMC needs to respect MC naming rules (even if they refer to virtual files and hence appear strange) and should use the MC name for the file when forming the command line. Whether this file exist in the reality is basically irrelevant, you just want it to play the right thing after all.

Of course If MC inconsistently uses different extensions then that solution won't work.

[Manni]

If  MC needs to match that against the value in the filename tag and the value is consistently using a bluray suffix rather than bdmv and CMC is integrating with jriver then CMC needs to respect MC naming rules (even if they refer to virtual files and hence appear strange) and should use the MC name for the file when forming the command line. Whether this file exist in the reality is basically irrelevant, you just want it to play the right thing after all.

Of course If MC inconsistently uses different extensions then that solution won't work.

No it sems to be consistent, at least for bd folder.

I'l ask the CMC developper what he thinks. if Hendrik could confirm that this file naming is consistent for bluray and uhd bluray folders then that would help.

[Manni]

How do you set WOL for offline media shares?

Looks like we had this discussion a few years back

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=120798.0

Has the situation changed since? Please reply in that thread if there is any news as I guess it's off topic here.

I see you've locked the thread, so I assume there is no news. Feel free to clean up this one too from WOL references if you wish.

[Hendrik]

Blu-ray discs are a big conglomeration of files, no single file is particularly more meaningful then any other. Our Blu-ray playback internally actually just wants the folder where its in, because it'll then open all the files it needs. But having just folders in the library is cumbersome, so we intentionally created a "virtual" file that does by design not correspond to a real file, to differentiate it from actual files.

"index.bluray;1" should be relatively consistent (and index.bluray3d;1 for 3d discs), although when testing something right now, I fixed a small bug that could cause it to get renamed (incidentally related to the new video analysis from MC31)

If all you need is to adapt the name of the file, you could use a simple launcher script as well.

I just came up with this in a minute, save as MC.cmd or any name you like, and point your frontend at it:

Code: [Select]

@echo off
set file=%1
set file=%file:index.bdmv=index.bluray;1%

MC31.exe /Mode Theater /PlayReplace %file%


[Manni]

Blu-ray discs are a big conglomeration of files, no single file is particularly more meaningful then any other. Our Blu-ray playback internally actually just wants the folder where its in, because it'll then open all the files it needs. But having just folders in the library is cumbersome, so we intentionally created a "virtual" file that does by design not correspond to a real file, to differentiate it from actual files.

"index.bluray;1" should be relatively consistent (and index.bluray3d;1 for 3d discs), although when testing something right now, I fixed a small bug that could cause it to get renamed (incidentally related to the new video analysis from MC31)

If all you need is to adapt the name of the file, you could use a simple launcher script as well.

I just came up with this in a minute, save as MC.cmd or any name you like, and point your frontend at it:

Code: [Select]

@echo off
set file=%1
set file=%file:index.bdmv=index.bluray;1%

MC31.exe /Mode Theater /PlayReplace %file%


OK thanks for checking this. I'll point the CMC dev to this thread so he can ask any questions directly if needed. Otherwise I'll report back when/if a conclusion is reached.

[Manni]

Blu-ray discs are a big conglomeration of files, no single file is particularly more meaningful then any other. Our Blu-ray playback internally actually just wants the folder where its in, because it'll then open all the files it needs. But having just folders in the library is cumbersome, so we intentionally created a "virtual" file that does by design not correspond to a real file, to differentiate it from actual files.

"index.bluray;1" should be relatively consistent (and index.bluray3d;1 for 3d discs), although when testing something right now, I fixed a small bug that could cause it to get renamed (incidentally related to the new video analysis from MC31)

If all you need is to adapt the name of the file, you could use a simple launcher script as well.

I just came up with this in a minute, save as MC.cmd or any name you like, and point your frontend at it:

Code: [Select]

@echo off
set file=%1
set file=%file:index.bdmv=index.bluray;1%

MC31.exe /Mode Theater /PlayReplace %file%


As the virtual file name itself changes, the dev would prefer to use the folder as it means there is no need to specify the correct file name depending on bluray type and index number.

Here is his question:

So I need to know the exact path to pass. Which one of the following four paths are correct?
Player Commandline= /Mode Theater /PlayReplace "\\A4K\4kbdmv\Lucy
Player Commandline= /Mode Theater /PlayReplace "\\A4K\4kbdmv\Lucy\
Player Commandline= /Mode Theater /PlayReplace "\\A4K\4kbdmv\Lucy\BDMV"
Player Commandline= /Mode Theater /PlayReplace "\\A4K\4kbdmv\Lucy\BDMV\"

Also, is there somewhere a clear explanation/definition of the file nomenclature used in the library?

Finally, I tested with DVDs and it looks like black bar detection doesn't work with these. Can you confirm? Not an issue, just checking that it doesn't matter to support DVD specifically for this new feature as the current implementation works fine.

[Hendrik]

You can't pass the folder. You have to pass the exact filename as is in the library. You could easily use a script like I posted above to simply do a name replacement.

[Manni]

You can't pass the folder. You have to pass the exact filename as is in the library. You could easily use a script like I posted above to simply do a name replacement.

Thanks. I misread what you wrote earlier, that you only needed the folder. I didn’t realise the whole path including the virtual file name was the only option.

Any documentation on the possible variations then? Two have been listed, are there others? What does the ;1 mean at the end?

What about my question about black bar detection in DVDs?

[Manni]

In addition to the above, if we use the virtual file name and not the path, what happens when the title isn’t in the library? MC only imports 222 titles out of 267 in one of my shares. What happens if MC gets a file name that isn’t in the database? Will it still play it (without the metadata) or will it fails as the file name doesn’t exist?

[Hendrik]

The ;1 postfix is used to denote a virtual file. For Blu-rays only index.bluray;1 and index.bluray3d;1 exist.

DVDs are not supported in black bar detection, no immediate plans to change that.

Not imported titles may work with the virtual path, but best to just give it a go and find out.

[Manni]

The ;1 postfix is used to denote a virtual file. For Blu-rays only index.bluray;1 and index.bluray3d;1 exist.

DVDs are not supported in black bar detection, no immediate plans to change that.

Not imported titles may work with the virtual path, but best to just give it a go and find out.

Great thanks, a new alpha is ready to test, I’ll report back in a few hours.

[Manni]

OK so good news first testing the new alpha of CMC:

1) When using the exact same path, the black bars metadata is detected and the crop/stretch whatever is applied.
2) When the title is not in the library, the title is still played even though the virtual file name is used.

Bad news is that there is no consistency in the file naming after import. I looked more closely at my library and randomly some titles use index.bdmv and some use the virtual file name (index.bluray;1).
Worse, if you import a folder without detecting the black bars, it uses the virtual file name, but if you then use the library tool to detect the black bars the name becomes index.bdmv, which means that ironically black bars can't be detected with the version that uses virtual names.

Can you make it more consistent?

I've tested bluray and uhd bluray and the behaviour seems to be the same.

[Hendrik]

The files being renamed to index.bdmv is a bug with the black bar detection and should be fixed in the next build. you can then make it consistent by either running black bar detection or video analysis on them again.

[Manni]

The files being renamed to index.bdmv is a bug with the black bar detection and should be fixed in the next build. you can then make it consistent by either running black bar detection or video analysis on them again.

OK thanks.

Does it also explain that out of 200+ titles imported WITHOUT black bar detection half of them have index.bdmv and half have index.bluray;1 in an apparent random way?

Another issue, when you have imported a share without black bar detection, and you reimport the same share with black bar detection checked, the files are not processed for black bar detection. You have to delete them from the library to get them processed during import (if you don't want to process them manually one by one using the library tools).

Finally we still have the issue of many titles not being detected / imported, but there is a separate thread for that (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136599.0.html). It would be good if we could resolve this, at the moment there are only 222 titles out of 267 that would have black bars detected, as the remaining titles are not imported, hence are not in the library.

[Hendrik]

You can just select a bunch of them and run black bar detection in bulk, make a smartlist to find them or something, and just select them all in one go. Dont need to do anything one by one around here.

[Manni]

You can just select a bunch of them and run black bar detection in bulk, make a smartlist to find them or something, and just select them all in one go. Dont need to do anything one by one around here.

Thanks, it still doesn't seem right that the files are not process when you reimport the share with black detection checked, but if you think that's normal, I won't worry about it.

I have posted logs, screenshots and procedures in the thread about missing files on importing BD folders: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136599.msg946820.html#msg946820

[Manni]

Thanks Hendrik for fixing the file naming inconsistency when importing BD folders in build 40.

I can confirm that all titles seem to be imported with the index.bdmv;1 suffix in the library.

As a result, CMC support for JRiver MC31 now works consistently and black bar detection works fine when enabled (provided the metadata is in the library).

Looking forward to testing the upcoming vertical picture shift whenever it becomes available.