Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Manni]

I found this issue with BD Menus in JRiver (MC 31 build 46), when playing a 24.00p title. Many of these (I tested quite a few recent StudioCanal UK titles) are incorrectly detected as 23.976 titles, leading to frequent and regular frame drop/repeat for both the menus and the main title. This is only with madVR.

Examples:
Total Recall (4K UHD Bluray UK)
Le Cercle Rouge (4K UHD Bluray UK)

Workarounds:
- Using JRVR [edit: or any other renderer] resolves the issue on both titles listed above
- Switching to title playback also resolves this, the movie plays at 24.00p as expected

However, switching to 24p before playback either with MC (display settings) or with CMC instead of or as well as madVR's own refresh rate change doesn't help. [EDIT: disabling madVR autoswitching and letting MC do the frame rate switching in display settings also works fine, I had only disabled in in my HDR profile and not in my SDR profile]

Not all 24.00hz titles are affected, for example the following titles are detected as 24.00p and play perfectly, both menu and main title:
Casque d'Or (4K UHD Bluray UK)
Cliffhanger (4K UHD Bluray UK)

At least on this small sample, it looks like the issue happens when the menu is 1080p (Total Recall, Le Cercle Rouge) but not when the menu is UHD (Casque d'Or, Cliffhanger). It might be a coincidence, but I mention it in case it matters.

There is no such issue with other players (for example MPC-BE), probably because they don't support BD menus. Main title playback seems to always detect the correct framerate, irrespective of the player.

I hope this can be fixed, I only listed four titles but I have many in my collection, and about 50% are played incorrectly at 23.976hz when using BD menus.

Title playback isn't an option for me even if I'm only interested in the main title, as it's too often incorrect: Wrong language in animation titles with seamless branching, for example if you play "Zootropolis" you get french language text information in the picture; wrong subtitles displayed by default; no forced subs, etc. So it's a workaround, but not a solution.

JRVR isn't an option for me either (yet). Even if the tonemapping has greatly improved, too many features are missing compared to madVR:
- Vertical picture shift to eliminate top or bottom black bar (I use a single masking sytem at the bottom of my 16/9 screen)
- DOS command on profile start (I use this to control my JVC projector and select the correct lens AP according to the peak brightness of each HDR or SDR profile)
- Quite a few others, such as JVC picture mode selection, although I can do this partially with the JVC Macros in my HD Fury VRROOM

[JimH]

Thanks for all the details, manni.

[Hendrik]

All MC interacts with as it comes to FPS is its own FPS field. Everything else is left up to madVR in your setup.

[Manni]

All MC interacts with as it comes to FPS is its own FPS field. Everything else is left up to madVR in your setup.

Thanks, but as I said, madVR on its own with any player (MC, MPC-BE etc) playing only the main title switches and plays all these titles at the correct FPS (24.00).
If I disable automatic refresh rate in madVR and set the auto refresh rate in MC (in advanced display settings), that doesn't help with BD menus, the problem titles are still played at the wrong FPS (23.976), which means that madVR has nothing to do with this. The fact that it works when the renderer is JRVR should also point to a possible difference in the way FPSis handled between the two renderers.

So as the only time it's wrong is with MC using BD menus, there must be a difference in the way you report the frame rate for these titles to madVR between BD menu and title playback, otherwise it would be always wrong or always correct, not only wrong with JRiver's BD Menus.

By the way, all the titles are reported as 24.00 FPS in the metadata, so there is something wrong internally that makes them play at 23.976 and not at 24.00 when BD Menu is enabled.

[Hendrik]

My guess is that a trailer or something like that is 23.976 and madVR doesn't care to update for the main title. We present all metadata as it changes depending how the disc is authored, for every snippet of video it includes individually.
madVR is a black box for all of us, and the entire behavior has of course everything to do with madVR. There is no difference in behavior in any Blu-ray code, or video code. DirectShow, which is used for playback here, isolates all individual components, and defines an interface to exchange metadata and video data in a standardized way.

What I would recommend is disabling any and all refresh rate handling in madVR and letting MC set the rate, which will be the rate of the main title. If that still doesn't work, then its likely something madVR needs to handle better.

[Manni]

My guess is that a trailer or something like that is 23.976 and madVR doesn't care to update for the main title. We present all metadata as it changes depending how the disc is authored, for every snippet of video it includes individually.
madVR is a black box for all of us, and the entire behavior has of course everything to do with madVR. There is no difference in behavior in any Blu-ray code, or video code. DirectShow, which is used for playback here, isolates all individual components, and defines an interface to exchange metadata and video data in a standardized way.

What I would recommend is disabling any and all refresh rate handling in madVR and letting MC set the rate, which will be the rate of the main title. If that still doesn't work, then its likely something madVR needs to handle better.

I can confirm that there are many (short) videos that are 23fps instead of 24fps in the STREAM folder of both problem titles.

As reported previously, I had tried the bolded above already and it didn't help, but I decided to dive into it more closely.

First of all, I set the default refresh rate to 60p (I use 23 normally), to make sure that any change would be obvious. I then selected another renderer (legacy video renderer) in a custom mode and although there is no OSD that displays the frame rate, I was able to confirm with the VRROOM that MC was indeed switching to 24 FPS. So this seems to confirm a madVR specific issue, as MC does what it's supposed to do and madVR remains the odd one out.

I selected madVR again, but I added a 10 seconds pause to the MC display rate switching, so I could see better what was happening, and sure enough MC switches correctly to 24 FPS, then after 10s as soon as madVR kicks in the refresh rate reverts to 23.976.

I then checked the active profile in madVR and I got the explanation as to why madVR was overriding MC's refresh rate even whan it was not supposed to: I had disabled madVR's auto refresh rate in my HDR profile, as I was testing 4K UHD Blurays, but the first few videos are SDR 1080p ones. As soon as I disabled madVR's auto rate switching in SDR as well, it stopped overriding MC's refresh rate change, and both the menus and the main title played at the correct frame rate.

I tried both Total Recall and Le Cercle Rouge, and both play at the correct refresh rate when madVR auto refresh rate is properly disabled and MC does the rate switching.

The main downside of letting MC switch rate is that players that don't handle rate switching can't be used, but as MC is my primary player on the HTPC for all content and the only other player I use occasionally for testing (MPC-BE) also handles auto-rate switching, I can live with that workaround

I'll report this issue to madshi so that he can get in touch with you if this behavior is somewhat connected to MC's BD Menus, as madVR's auto switching works fine when playing the main title only, whether in MC or in any other player. I'm not sure when or if madshi will be able to take a look though, as it's a low priority issue for a small range of users, and there is a workaround...

Thanks a lot for your help in resolving this and apologies for my mistake, I should have checked the active profile in madVR during menus earlier.