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[fnorbi1234]

Hello Guys,

I have the following problem.

JRiver settings
- Audio Device: ASIO
- DSP Output formats: 8x DSD in Native format
- Bitstreaming: DSD

As far as I know, with these settings JRiver converts lower quality music to DSD512, which is  work perfectly.
However, it does not work if I want to play the file which I bought (nativeDSD.com) in native DSD512 format  originally, JRiver did not play those files and displayed the following error massage:

"This output format may not be supported by your hardware......"

OS & Hardware

- OS: Windows10
- External DAC:AudioGD R8HE MK3
- Interface: Amanero Combo 384 USB

Do you have any suggestion or idea to solve this problem?

Thanks

N

[Awesome Donkey]

If it supports native DSD512 over ASIO (looking at the spec sheet states none of its DSD capabilities so this is a guess) why not enable DSD bitstreaming for those tracks who are already DSD512 so it doesn't go through any conversion process?

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

[Manfred]

If you enable Bitstreaming verify that Bitstreaming: DSD up DSD512 (8x) is enabled. Also check if your Drivers support native DSD or only DoP. If only DSD bitstream in DoP format is supported you must enable this in the Device Settings.

[Awesome Donkey]

I've yet to see a DAC with a PCM sample rate high enough to support DSD512 over DoP, very likely it's native DSD over ASIO for DSD512.

[Manfred]

I've yet to see a DAC with a PCM sample rate high enough to support DSD512 over DoP, very likely it's native DSD over ASIO for DSD512.

I think you are right. Even the T+A DAC 200 does DSD 1024 only as native bitstream. No DoP.

[fnorbi1234]

I have tried several native DSD format between DSD64 - DSD512 and it worked fine until DSD128. There is a same issue from DSD256.

Interesting to play any kind of other lower resolution  (eg:44 Khz DoP to DSD512) is working perfectly well.

I couldn't find any Windows or driver settings to change DoP or DSD parameters.

Thanks your help

[Awesome Donkey]

With MC's Bitstreaming setting under MC's Options > Audio set it to Custom and you'll be able to set a up-to DSD limit, make sure it's DSD512.



If it still doesn't work, may need to see screenshots of your settings and audio path and DSP Studio > Output Format settings.

[dtc]

If you set Output Encoding to none and try to bitstream the 256 or 512 DSD does that play correctly?  That would take the output encoding step out of the loop.

[fnorbi1234]

I've tried between up to 128 - 512. It worked only up to 128.

You can find attached JR settings screeshots

[fnorbi1234]

Additional info: if I set up the DSD up to 128, it works, but native DSD512 is played only as DSD128, therfore JR downsampling all of native DSD to 128.

[JimH]

That's probably what your device reports that it supports.

Not all specs are reliable and sometimes the same device has different capabilities, depending on whether it's a direct connection like USB or a network connection.

[Awesome Donkey]

Disable DSD bitstream in DoP format in your last screenshot, then try again.

[dtc]

You only have DSD bitstreaming set for up to 128. Change it to ALL or 512.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yep, and it only works up to DSD128 because DoP is enabled. The limit of DoP depends on the max PCM sample rate your DAC supports, which I'll guess for your DAC is in the range around 352 kHz to 384 kHz? That's why to play DSD256 and DSD512 with your DAC you have to use ASIO with DoP disabled.

Still can't really find any concrete info about that DAC's capabilities, so I'm assuming it only supports DSD256 and DSD512 via native DSD and ASIO.

[fnorbi1234]

Of course, I've asked the DAC manufacturer and received the following answer:


"Dear Sir,
If the player can play DSD64 or DSD128, that the hardware can support the DSD files.
I think this is caused by a setup issue with the computer or player, or a driver installation issue.
Check your player settings and ensure that the computer drivers are installed correctly."

I think you are right, DAC is not capable native DSD512, the specification contains misleading information  (http://www.audio-gd.com/HE/R8HEMK3/R8HE_MK3EN_Specs.htm)

"Support Sampling

USB & IIS : 44.1kHz - 384kHz /32Bit DSD64-512
 Coaxial mode: 44.1kHz - 192kHz
Optical mode: 44.1kHz - 96kHz  "

[dtc]

Did you turn off DoP in the ASIO driver and set bitstreaming to 512?

EDIT: According to this post and others on Head-FI the mk2 works with 256 and 512 so I would not yet assume the documentation is wrong.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-audio-gd-r-7-r-7he-r-8-r-27-r-27he-r-28-flagship-resistor-ladder-dacs-and-dac-amps.853902/page-665#post-17413607

[Awesome Donkey]

Okay, with that information and confirmation it supports up to 384 kHz, that confirms with DoP that DAC can only play up to DSD128, and that's exactly what you've experienced so far.

Keep in mind DSD via DoP and DSD via native DSD are two different things that accomplish the same thing. DoP depends on PCM sample rates in order to support higher orders of DSD, e.g. DSD64 via DoP requires the DAC to support a PCM sample rate of 176.4 kHz, DSD128 via DoP requires the DAC to support a PCM sample rate of 352.8 kHz, DSD256 via DoP requires the DAC to support a PCM sample rate of 705.6 kHz and DSD512 via DoP would require the DAC to support a PCM sample rate of 1411.2 kHz.

Since your DAC only supports up to 384 kHz your DAC is limited to DSD128 over DoP. To playback DSD256 and DSD512 you have to disable DoP and use ASIO to output native DSD and make sure DSD bitstreaming is enabled for up to DSD512. You might want to set Output Encoding to None too as dtc also mentioned to test the playback of DSD512. Then look at the audio path (Player menu > Audio Path) to see what's being outputted.

I don't think the documentation is wrong either, it just means that your DAC supports both DSD64 and DSD128 with DoP and native DSD, and DSD256 and DSD512 only with native DSD.

[fnorbi1234]

It Works   

Thank you

[dtc]

 

[fnorbi1234]

One more question

According to suggested settings (thank you) with random playing music, the DAC  switching audio formats ( 44 Khz; DSD,...)  - it's OK, but theres is a popping sound (that is quite loud) when the DAC switching between two different formats.

Afraid this sound provide by DAC.

Is there any settings to aviod this popping sound?

[dtc]

It is hard to determine where this type of pop is coming from, but it may well be the DAC. You can try changing the ASIO buffer size and also enable Play Silence at Startup. 

If you enable Output Encoding at 512 do you get the pop or is it just when you play tracks directly?  If it happens with Output Encoding at 512 it might be a MC issue. If it happens when playing tracks directly, it is probably a DAC issue. Often people never get the pop to go away.

Here is a brief discussion of the issue

https://ifi-audio.com/pop-goes-dsd-why-does-this-happen/

There was a problem with files extracted from SACDs with early software but that should not be happening with new DSDs files.

[fnorbi1234]

Buffer modification was help to decrease number of pops, but sometimes still happen

It occured enabled Output encoding and directly too.

As I see on DAC display, sometimes the DAC requries (approx. 1 sec) to recognize the changed audio format, and during this time come a pop.

I think some kind of latency player setting could help  between format changing

[Awesome Donkey]

If it's happening during the changeover from PCM to DSD, chances are it's the DAC and there's not really anything you can do about it. My DAC pops when changing from PCM to DSD (or vice versa) and I've had to learn to live with it. I don't listen to DSD often (and I don't convert PCM to DSD) so encountering the pop, for me, is kinda rare. That said, if you're converting everything to DSD using Output Format, you'll probably encounter this all the time. I guess that's one reason you may want to just leave PCM as PCM and DSD as DSD and not do any sort of conversion in order to avoid the pop, at least some of the time.

It's just one of those things, unfortunately.