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[Al ex]

Windows 11, Synology NAS, Wifi network:
Hi, when I am playing music from my local disc, no problems.
But my main audio collection is on a NAS, which is located within my Wifi-network. I can play music from it, also no problem. I also can access my files on the NAS in Windows Explorer without delay.
Also no problem to access and control my music library via JRemote.

But when I right click on a song with the mouse, then JRiver freezes for about 20-30 seconds, then I can select, whatever I want, like get cover image, etc.


Anyone an idea, what kind of problem this is? I am living with that already quite a while, but would be happy to get rid of this.
Thank you.

[JimH]

Try updating the firmware for the NAS.

[Al ex]

Try updating the firmware for the NAS.

Thanks Jim, the Synology NAS is on latest version DSM 7.1.1-42962 Update 6, so this has no effect on it.

[Al ex]

What version of MC?  32.0.25 is at the top of the MC32 for Mac board.

32.0.20, I am using Windows. But it happened on MC 28, from which I recently upgraded, as well.

[JimH]

MC 32.0.25 is at the top of the MC32 for Windows board.  Please try it, but it's likely related to trouble reading a drive.

Turn off "Enable Shell Integration".

Look at your File Locations to see if anything points to a drive that doesn't exist.

Antivirus?

[Al ex]

MC 32.0.25 is at the top of the MC32 for Windows board.  Please try it, but it's likely related to trouble reading a drive.

Turn off "Enable Shell Integration".

Look at your File Locations to see if anything points to a drive that doesn't exist.

Antivirus?

I checked Shell - it was unticked already. Ticked on, ticked off again - no improvement.

File Locations: I am importing files into the Main Library with auto-import - where I set:
\\DS415play\6 Musik\
\\DS415play\7 Videos\
F:\9 Medien Unbearbeitet\ (to show files from local computer)
Maybe this kind of setup is wrong?


Antivirus -> only Windows Defender.

EDIT: Also installed latest MC 32.0.25 - no difference.

[zybex]

This 30 second free is a longstanding issue that happens when the network target is not accessible or name resolution doesn't work at first (ie, local DNS lookup fails - 30 second timeout - then a broadcast for the NAS name works).

Solution 1: configure your NAS to use DHCP instead of a fixed address. This makes your router know about it, and then DNS works. You can tell your router to always assign the same IP to the NAS.

Solution 2: Assign a fixed IP address to the NAS (eg, 192.168.0.50 - adjust for your subnet), but then add it to your 'hosts' file:
- open cmd as Administrator
- type 'notepad c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts'
- add this line to the bottom:
192.168.0.50  <TAB>  DS415play

That's a single TAB character separating the IP and the name, no spaces. The Hosts list bypasses DNS/WiNS and stuff just works™.

[Al ex]

This 30 second free is a longstanding issue that happens when the network target is not accessible or name resolution doesn't work at first (ie, local DNS lookup fails - 30 second timeout - then a broadcast for the NAS name works).

Solution 1: configure your NAS to use DHCP instead of a fixed address. This makes your router know about it, and then DNS works. You can tell your router to always assign the same IP to the NAS.

Solution 2: Assign a fixed IP address to the NAS (eg, 192.168.0.50 - adjust for your subnet), but then add it to your 'hosts' file:
- open cmd as Administrator
- type 'notepad c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\hosts'
- add this line to the bottom:
192.168.0.50  <TAB>  DS415play

That's a single TAB character separating the IP and the name, no spaces. The Hosts list bypasses DNS/WiNS and stuff just works™.

Thank you for your suggestions zybex!

Solution 1 was already implemented. DHCP is on.
Solution 2 also the NAS already had a fixed IP, so I additionally added the line to the hosts file as you mentioned.

Unfortunately, no difference. Also not after a restart of the NAS.

[zybex]

If you do a 'ping DS415play', is the response immediate?
What's the output of 'nslookup DS415play' ?

[Al ex]

If you do a 'ping DS415play', is the response immediate?
What's the output of 'nslookup DS415play' ?

For the nslookup it doesnt give a positive response, but maybe I did it wrongly:
C:\Windows\System32>nslookup DS415play
Server:  resolver3.opendns.com
Address:  208.67.222.220
*** resolver3.opendns.com can't find DS415play: Non-existent domain



For pinging - yes, response is immediate (only first time it took longer):
C:\Windows\System32>ping 192.168.0.140

Pinging 192.168.0.140 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=6ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.140:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 6ms, Average = 2ms

C:\Windows\System32>ping 192.168.0.140

Pinging 192.168.0.140 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.140:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 1ms

C:\Windows\System32>ping 192.168.0.140

Pinging 192.168.0.140 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.0.140: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.0.140:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 1ms

[craigmcg]

I too use a Synology NAS to host my media but I have configured my media shares as Mapped Drives in Windows that automatically reconnect at Windows Login. I don't see these delays when I right-click on a file whether movie, tv, or flac file. I may not be trying the same thing as you but if you haven't mapped these shares as drives in Windows, it might be worth trying it.

[zybex]

For the nslookup it doesnt give a positive response, but maybe I did it wrongly:
C:\Windows\System32>nslookup DS415play
Server:  resolver3.opendns.com
Address:  208.67.222.220
*** resolver3.opendns.com can't find DS415play: Non-existent domain

Looks like you've setup your router to announce OpenDNS as the DNS resolver instead of itself. Changing that may fix it too - local machines should use the router as DNS, and then the router itself can forward to OpenDNS.

You can also try to add the full machine name (including local workgroup/domain) to the hosts file, eg:
   192.168.1.50    DS415play    DS415play.fritz.box

You can get the DNS suffix with "ipconfig /all". It can also show the 'node type' - it should be set to "Hybrid", or else the Hosts file may be ignored.

[Al ex]

I too use a Synology NAS to host my media but I have configured my media shares as Mapped Drives in Windows that automatically reconnect at Windows Login. I don't see these delays when I right-click on a file whether movie, tv, or flac file. I may not be trying the same thing as you but if you haven't mapped these shares as drives in Windows, it might be worth trying it.

I did so and I almost thought it solved it after restarting the NAS, but unfortunately there was an immediate response on right clicking only by 2 or 3 files after restart, now it is back again with delayed response.

[Al ex]

Looks like you've setup your router to announce OpenDNS as the DNS resolver instead of itself. Changing that may fix it too - local machines should use the router as DNS, and then the router itself can forward to OpenDNS.

You can also try to add the full machine name (including local workgroup/domain) to the hosts file, eg:
   192.168.1.50    DS415play    DS415play.fritz.box

You can get the DNS suffix with "ipconfig /all". It can also show the 'node type' - it should be set to "Hybrid", or else the Hosts file may be ignored.

I understand what you mean, but unfortunately, dont know how to setup the router so that it is used as DNS. As far as I see from my TP-Link Archer C7 I can setup DNS from my host, or a custom host, which I did (Open DNS):

(screenshot)



From IP config I get these (Network is WiFi only):

Windows IP Configuration
   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : DESKTOP-H225FBS
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Wireless LAN adapter WLAN:
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160MHz
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 5D-E0-85-BE-2A-C7
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : ff30::2adc:98d:f7da:bbb9%11(Preferred)
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.171(Preferred)
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Dienstag, 12. März 2024 20:10:45
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Donnerstag, 24. April 2160 18:50:58
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
   DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 354890245
   DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-14-22-26-34-B4-2F-99-A3-96-E1
   DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 208.67.222.220
                                       208.67.220.222
   NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

[zybex]

The DNS advertised to local machines would be on the DHCP Server section.

[Al ex]

The DNS advertised to local machines would be on the DHCP Server section.

Ah OK - I think I got you. So I should add the IP, which I have assigned to the NAS before here in the "Address reservation" section?

EDIT: And just realized - also here the NAS already shows up in the address reservation list. Obviously did add it here already some while ago.

[zybex]

You should leave those two DNS entries blank so that your NAS and PC use the router itself as a DNS resolver. Then you may need to reboot the NAS and your PC(s).

The MAC Addresses for those reservations seems incomplete, they're usually longer. You only need a reservation for the NAS if you configured it as a 'DHCP client' instead of a fixed IP address. Also, make sure any DHCP Server is disabled on your NAS, since the router takes that role.

If you change any IP configuration, make sure the NAS IP matches what you have on the hosts file (or remove that entry from the hosts file to see if it now works without it).

[Awesome Donkey]

Yeah, OpenDNS can slow things down a bit, depending where you are located and how far away you are from their closest DNS server. I assume they likely use Anycast so it *should* be the closest to you but that's not always the case. There's DNS benchmark tests you can do to see which one(s) are fastest for you. Like zybex said, make sure your router is the only DHCP server running on your network. Having multiple DHCP servers on a network will bring you a LOT of headaches.

If you have a device like a Raspberry Pi laying around, you can install something like AdGuard Home on it, which will allow it to function the same way as OpenDNS does except locally with excellent features like per-device configuration, website/service blocking, parental controls and of course a DNS-based domain name ad blocker. Granted, you can't block things like YouTube apps with any sort of domain name ad blocking, but it can block things like trackers. Add something like Unbound to it, and DNS resolving can be pretty darn fast within your LAN.

[Al ex]

You should leave those two DNS entries blank so that your NAS and PC use the router itself as a DNS resolver. Then you may need to reboot the NAS and your PC(s).

The MAC Addresses for those reservations seems incomplete, they're usually longer. You only need a reservation for the NAS if you configured it as a 'DHCP client' instead of a fixed IP address. Also, make sure any DHCP Server is disabled on your NAS, since the router takes that role.

If you change any IP configuration, make sure the NAS IP matches what you have on the hosts file (or remove that entry from the hosts file to see if it now works without it).

Which two DNS entries you mean? These under "Address Reservation"? I have assigned a fixed IP to the NAS in order to make Port Forwarding possible - if the IPs change, then I guess JRemote will not work anymore while I am not in my home network.

For the NAS-DNS - that was enabled (I think for Google). I have unticked that (screenshot) and will reboot the NAS as soon as I also can restart my router here at my location as well.

[Awesome Donkey]

No, the two DNS entries (Primary DNS and Secondary DNS) on your router, not the NAS. You should leave the NAS DNS settings as-is.

[zybex]

No, the two DNS entries (Primary DNS and Secondary DNS) on your router, not the NAS. You should leave the NAS DNS settings as-is.

I think the NAS DNS should point to the router as well.

- On the router > Network > Internet: leave the OpenDNS server IPs there
- On the router > Network > DHCP Server: the Primary and Secondary DNS entries should be blank (so they default to 192.168.0.1)
- On the NAS > Manually configure DNS server: if you're using a fixed IP address, set the Primary DNS to 192.168.0.1 (same as gateway). Alternatively, enable DHCP on the NAS (not DHCP Server!) and add a reservation on the router so that the NAS always has the same IP. This is the preferred method, as it allows the router to know about the NAS.

This will make the NAS and your PCs all use the Router as the internal DNS server, while the router will still use OpenDNS whenever an internet request is needed.

[Al ex]

Thank you for all your replies & help. Unfortunately the problem still persists.
Clicking on local files with right mouse button shows instantly the menu. Same click on files located on my NAS causes an annoyingly freeze of JRiver for appr. 10-20 seconds...

[JimH]

This 30 second free is a longstanding issue that happens when the network target is not accessible or name resolution doesn't work at first (ie, local DNS lookup fails - 30 second timeout - then a broadcast for the NAS name works).

This is the right answer.

Simplify your network, at least for testing.  Move the NAS if needed.

[michael123]

Thank you for all your replies & help. Unfortunately the problem still persists.
Clicking on local files with right mouse button shows instantly the menu. Same click on files located on my NAS causes an annoyingly freeze of JRiver for appr. 10-20 seconds...

Do you have some sort sleep / power save for NAS and/or disks?
I have same issue,
There is no problem with JRiver, this is a NAS issue.. Actually, not an issue that's perfect behavior.

We may ask for a feature from JRiver team to implement some sort of keep-alive to prevent that standby state for disks

[lepa]

Well one could argue that just browsing local database or e.g. right clicking item from that database shouldn't yet trigger any target file or network query

[Awesome Donkey]

We may ask for a feature from JRiver team to implement some sort of keep-alive to prevent that standby state for disks

In that case, it might be better to get drives rated for 24/7 usage and disable standby for them on the NAS side.

[zybex]

This issue is not related to sleep - that would take 5 seconds max to spinup. This usually takes 21+ seconds to unfreeze, often much more (the 21 seconds is due to Windows retry logic for network access).

I have a laptop with a couple of MC databases pointing to files on my NAS. Sometimes I take the laptop elsewhere and I just want to open MC to check some metadata item or find out if I already have some particular item, and it ALWAYS happens - MC will freeze a bunch of times while trying to access the NAS files, which is not accessible, for up to 5 minutes (trying to load covers?). It's really annoying. An "offline DB" mode would be ideal, I've requested it before.

In this thread, the NAS is actually available but MC can't immediately connect to it, so it's a different case.

[JimH]

Those pauses are Windows, not MC.  You may have multiple references to your NAS drive in File Locations and other settings.

Garbage in ...

[zybex]

MC calls into Win32 API requesting to open a network folder, and the API takes 30 seconds to return. You can argue that's Windows fault, but you can also easily add a timeout on your side, or even a pre-check before calling the API to determine if the target is alive - there are other APIs to do that, or you can simply ping the target with a 2 second timeout (though firewalls may block this). If it doesn't respond, mark it as offline and don't try again for a few minutes, or until something changes (ideally, add an Offline indicator somewhere on the UI that the user can click to toggle or retry the access)

I see from a log capture that MC will try to access ALL files in the library at startup for a quick check (eg, for auto-import?). This causes massive delays if the NAS is not accessible, MC should give up after the second file, or better yes implement the check above.

Opening MC with a test library of just about 120 files, without NAS access: MC starts and seems to be working OK, but as soon as you right-click one of the files it will hang the UI and will not respond until the scanning thread finishes, some 5 minutes later.

[JimH]

I've called for reinforcements, but if your settings aren't right, and Windows doesn't cooperate, yes we can defend against that, but how far do we go? 

On a NAS drive, there is no notification, so we have to check.

Turning off auto import probably would make a difference.

Waiting for the cavalry to come over the hill now.

[Matt]

The program should no longer hit the disk just browsing files.  It only needs the disk for playback.  This was a statusbar change a while back.

Here it is in the history:
Changed: The default statusbar text no longer checks for a file existence.  This should prevent MC from accessing the file system until it plays.

You could double-check that your statusbar isn't hitting disk either.

[zybex]

It's not, I removed that long ago. I'll attach a log.

[Matt]

It's accessing the disk when it looks for Artwork.zip on right-click.  It's possible that is what causes the lag.

[zybex]

It looks more like a Mutex - some thread is [trying to] scan all files, and the right-click handler is stuck until that one finishes.

[Matt]

It looks more like a Mutex - some thread is [trying to] scan all files, and the right-click handler is stuck until that one finishes.

The view extras menu is hitting the disk on right-click to check for sidecar files and folders.  I'm going to try simply always showing the menu instead so then it only hits the disk when you actually show that submenu.  I'll have a new beta build up shortly.

[michael123]

In that case, it might be better to get drives rated for 24/7 usage and disable standby for them on the NAS side.

No
I will give you another example where this is needed -
There is a cache in Windows somewhere maybe JRiver?
When I watch a long (and boring) movie, sometimes it happens that JRiver is frozen in the middle of the playback. Because the disk access occurred likely long ago and disk went into standby

Standby is needed for healthy disk life.. and preserve power consumption

You know, environment matters:)

[JimH]

Hard to imagine that a disk would sleep during a movie.

[michael123]

Hard to imagine that a disk would sleep during a movie.

Yep.. due to some caching

[lepa]

Shouldn't be the case and if it really would do then your go to stand by time is set to ruin your disks as constantly powering drive on and off is more stressing than keeping it always on (NAS drive)

[zybex]

Hard to imagine that a disk would sleep during a movie.

I guess it depends on the movie. Some are really boring.

[zybex]

Shouldn't be the case and if it really would do then your go to stand by time is set to ruin your disks as constantly powering drive on and off is more stressing than keeping it always on (NAS drive)

This.
Some WD Green drives come with just 2 minutes idle timer from factory. You can check the SMART attributes for the spin-up count and it gets ridiculously high, like 100k spin-down/spin-up per year, which really kills the actuators. I remember using some low level tool from WD to change this setting.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yep, that's the main reason why I only use drives rated for 24/7 usage and disable standby on both the NAS and the OS and I haven't had drive die in years (and it died due to lightning).

*knocks on wood*

[lepa]

One apartment in this building just burned to ashes but thankfully firefox remembered what I was typing when the fire started so I didn't have to type it again,,,,

If this fix covers all those file jams then I just want say A REALLY BIG thanks to Jim for calling the cavalry that was decent of you to listen and of course to cavalry to implement the cunning plan. This has been my only almost showstopper with MC when this jam was "introduced" at some point of the development. It might well be at the time when extras was implemented as this didn't always occur. Will report back if this kind of jams are now gone for good, looks promising at least.

[zybex]

One apartment in this building just burned to ashes but thankfully firefox remembered what I was typing when the fire started so I didn't have to type it again,,,,