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[Dennis in FL]

Trying ethernet only is a good idea. The SSDP server binds to and runs on any connected interface.

Are you using SMB or APS in the NAS mount?

SMB on the NAS

I also removed WiFi.   Jim had asked for a test w/o NAS so I copied a smaller folder to an external drive on the Mac and deleted the NAS from the library and am running it now (no WiFi, no NAS).   

[Dennis in FL]

What happens if you use the mouse?  Do you see a cursor?  Can you click anywhere?  Can you switch to another program?

I get the whirlybird....and can't do anything.   If I minimize MC then when it hangs, I can't restore to full screen when I click on the icon.   Both cases need a force quit.

I can switch to another program.

[Dennis in FL]

You energy settings match the attached picture

Correction: I have restore after a power failure enabled

[bob]

If you are going to test without the NAS don't mess around with trying to delete its entries from the library.
Just clear the library and start over with a local folder.

If you force quit MC while it's working (spinning ball) you will certainly end up with a corrupted MC database.

[Dennis in FL]

I must have forced quit a hundred times by now.....several times a day when it hangs. 

How to find a corrupted file?   I think I asked this before, but isn't there error trapping in the code to flag a bad file?

Can a sidecar file be the bad actor?  I was experimenting with adding an on-line album review to the NOTES in the tags and the 3 or 4 paragraphs may have exceeded the allowable length....but I can't remember which album I did that.

I already set up MC w/o NAS by deleting the NAS file folder and inporting a small local folder - I'll let MC run overnight as it never makes it that long and if it hangs, I'll try a bare bones MC library after a library Clear.

[JimH]

It's fairly likely that the problem is at the hardware level.

[Dennis in FL]

If you are going to test without the NAS don't mess around with trying to delete its entries from the library.
Just clear the library and start over with a local folder.

If you force quit MC while it's working (spinning ball) you will certainly end up with a corrupted MC database.

I tested without the NAS.   I have a local SSD on a Thunderbolt 4 port and I put a few GB of music on it.   I had gone into MC Files and deleted (removed from Media Center) the NAS folder in its entirety and pointed to the local folder. 

The MC log and the video of the forced quit are in a separate message to Bob

Also included is a crash report -- after the above, I cleared the Library and then inported the local music folder.   Then MC crashed. 

[EnglishTiger]

Dennis - try connecting that local SSD to one of the M4 Mac-Mini's front USB C ports instead of the Thunderbolt 4 port.
Those 3 ports on the back of a M4 Mini are all PD type ports so some devices connected to them can get hot.

When I first got my M4 Mini I plugged an extension dock, that provides some USB2 & 3 ports, into one of the ports one the back and at the end of the day discovered that whilst the M4 mini had stayed reasonably cool the expansion dock was very hot. it's now plugged into one of the front USBC ports and it now gets no hotter than it did when plugged into the M1 mini.

[Dennis in FL]

Dennis - try connecting that local SSD to one of the M4 Mac-Mini's front USB C ports instead of the Thunderbolt 4 port.
Those 3 ports on the back of a M4 Mini are all PD type ports so some devices connected to them can get hot.

When I first got my M4 Mini I plugged an extension dock, that provides some USB2 & 3 ports, into one of the ports one the back and at the end of the day discovered that whilst the M4 mini had stayed reasonably cool the expansion dock was very hot. it's now plugged into one of the front USBC ports and it now gets no hotter than it did when plugged into the M1 mini.

I have a Thunderbolt 4 external drive enclosure with a fan so it needs a TB4 port.   I also have a USB hub plugged into one of the rear ports and it doesn't get hot.   

[Dennis in FL]

It's fairly likely that the problem is at the hardware level.

What hardware do you suspect?   Note that I have tested three separate Macs with and without Intel CPUs and they all hang.   And Windows and Linux are fine (don't hang).

PS: I think it is something with Mac Sequoia.  Sequoia came out in September and I started having problems back then (my post here is early October).   The Sequoia update 15.1.1 came out in November so it isn't that.

But then others with Macs would also be having issues.  This is a real puzzler. 

As a test, I took one of my Macs and deleted everything I could find related to JRiver including old versions in the Mac OS library and reinstalled 33 and the key with no skins --- and am testing it now. 

[JimH]

Your test above is with an external drive.  What was the result of the test?

Limit the test library to ordinary FLAC or similar.  It could be a problem with some little used format.  Keep your test narrow.

And, as Bob said, if you're routinely forcing MC to close, that may leave a corrupt database.  Let it run.

Network problem or security problem...

[JimH]

I have a Thunderbolt 4 external drive enclosure with a fan so it needs a TB4 port.   I also have a USB hub plugged into one of the rear ports and it doesn't get hot.

Unplug the hub.

[Dennis in FL]

Unplug the hub.

That has nothing to do with it

[EnglishTiger]

Dennis - have you looked in the Apple Mac Forums to see if anybody else is experiencing similar problems  with the M4 Mini?

My setup is a bit different to yours as I have the Mini with the M4 Pro chip in it and my albums/tracks are on a 4TB M2 disc that's connected to the mini via one of the T5 rear ports while the hub is plugged into one of the USB C front ports and the only problem I've had is remembering that the power on button is on the bottom of it.

[Dennis in FL]

Dennis - have you looked in the Apple Mac Forums to see if anybody else is experiencing similar problems  with the M4 Mini?

My setup is a bit different to yours as I have the Mini with the M4 Pro chip in it and my albums/tracks are on a 4TB M2 disc that's connected to the mini via one of the T5 rear ports while the hub is plugged into one of the USB C front ports and the only problem I've had is remembering that the power on button is on the bottom of it.

I have tested 3 macs......An old 2020 Intel iMac hangs as well as the M1 and M4  (the M1 doesn't have any hub).

I think it has something to do with Sequoia.

[bob]

I have tested 3 macs......An old 2020 Intel iMac hangs as well as the M1 and M4  (the M1 doesn't have any hub).

I think it has something to do with Sequoia.

On the Intel are you also running an external drive?
I ran a test overnight without issue (M1 Sequoia with similar as possible settings).
Try turning off media network in MC. I'm wondering if you have a broken device on your network.

[Dennis in FL]

On the Intel are you also running an external drive?
I ran a test overnight without issue (M1 Sequoia with similar as possible settings).
Try turning off media network in MC. I'm wondering if you have a broken device on your network.

The intel was using the NAS and it had a usb 3 ssd for photos…not audio.    I replaced the Intel with the M4 mini but it was hanging the same way.   I also have an M1 mini and an M2 air laptop. I haven’t tried the laptop yet.

On your Mac…can you enable a DLNA end point?

[Dennis in FL]

On the Intel are you also running an external drive?
I ran a test overnight without issue (M1 Sequoia with similar as possible settings).
Try turning off media network in MC. I'm wondering if you have a broken device on your network.

I thought perhaps the hidden Mac library files might have a corrupted file.....so thus:

I ran a test on a Mac M1 Mini by deleting all traces of JRiver and then installing a fresh Version 33.44  I copied 4 music files to the internal SSD and created a library with them and Media Network was OFF.   It ran overnight without issue.
At the same time I had my "troubled" Library (NAS music files and network DLNA endpoint) on my Mac Mini M4 but first I also deleted all traces of JRiver and reinstalled a new copy - then restored the library.   It hung during the night as usual.
I also installed MC 33.44 on my wife's Mac Book M2 Air (has nothing plugged into ports) and restored my MC library (NAS Music + Network DLNA) just now and am running as a test.
After the success of the Mac M1 Mini....I enabled Media Network just now and am running a test -- still with no NAS enabled.

Results after turkey

[Dennis in FL]

I ran a test on a Mac M1 Mini by deleting all traces of JRiver and then installing a fresh Version 33.44  I copied 4 music files to the internal SSD and created a library with them and Media Network was OFF.   It ran overnight without issue.
After the success of the Mac M1 Mini....I enabled Media Network just now and am running a test -- still with no NAS enabled.

Well, the mac mini hung when I enabled Media Network and DLNA.  I was still using a few local music files and not the NAS.  But I had chosen the DLNA end point (WiiM Ultra).

On another Mac I was doing the same thing with two exceptions.  1) I was using the NAS and although I had Media Network enabled I had not chosen the DLNA endpoint ----  and this Mac lasted about 7 hours and it is still going.   I just double clicked the DLNA and played some tunes.   I suspect it will hang later.

I had yet another Mac ( a laptop) with Media Network checked the NAS files were in the library but the WiiM DLNA endpoint wasn't chosen.   This MC was still running after a full day and the laptop has nothing plugged into the ports.

The laptop is WiFi and the rest are ethernet.

It's beginning to look like the culprit has something to do with DLNA and Macs or maybe MC and Macs.   Maybe the WiiM but there is no issue with WiiM and Windows or Linux or other Apps using the WiiM with Sequoia.

[JimH]

Unplug the WiiM.

[Dennis in FL]

Unplug the WiiM.

I have a Raspberry Pi 4 with DLNA (via software Ropieee) and I am now testing using the RP4 instead of the WiiM DLNA as an endpoint.   

Update -->  It didn't hang, it crashed.   So I guess that rules out the WiiM.   I sent the log and crash report to Bob.

[EnglishTiger]

Dennis - in the last couple of weeks Apple have released 4 betas for the next version of Sequoia in shorter intervals between beta versions than normal, hopefully that urgency is an indication that Apple are in the process of correcting whatever is causing communicating via DLNA to misbehave and give problems.

[JimH]

It's not DLNA.  I don't think Apple supports DLNA.  It's probably their networking.

[Dennis in FL]

It's not DLNA.  I don't think Apple supports DLNA.  It's probably their networking.

Im not positive but I think this all started when Sequoia 15.0 came out in September.   

[HaWi]

But not generally Sequoia because I am running 15.1.1 on a M2 Mac Studio and don't have a hanging issue.

[Dennis in FL]

But not generally Sequoia because I am running 15.1.1 on a M2 Mac Studio and don't have a hanging issue.

Mine occurs after many hours…..do you keep MC running?

[HaWi]

Mine occurs after many hours…..do you keep MC running?

I keep the MC server running by quitting out of MC (<File><Exit> or <Cmd><Q>).
There is no need to keep MC running when I am not doing anything with it. I exclusively play music using JRemote (except when I am testing something).
Just to test, I'll let it run over night and will report back here if it hangs.

[Dennis in FL]

I keep the MC server running by quitting out of MC (<File><Exit> or <Cmd><Q>).
There is no need to keep MC running when I am not doing anything with it. I exclusively play music using JRemote (except when I am testing something).
Just to test, I'll let it run over night and will report back here if it hangs.

Thanks. 
I have the music files on a NAS but it doesn’t seem to matter.

[Dennis in FL]

It's not DLNA.  I don't think Apple supports DLNA.  It's probably their networking.

Today I was playing to my WiiM with MC via DLNA and after a piece finished, I was slow to find another piece and the WiiM clicked off the amp with the trigger.   When I played some music, the VU meter was dancing but the amp was off.   

I decided to try another player.   I stopped MC and used Tidal's Mac APP and chose the WiiM.   Immediately, I heard the WiiM trigger the amp but before I could play music, I got a Java error from Tidal:

Uncaught Exception:
Error: WebSocket is not open: readyState 0 (CONNECTING)
at WebSocket.send (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/node_modules/ws/lib/websocket.js:450:13)
at Object.send (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/app/main/tidalConnect/websocket.js:106:16)
at startSession (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/app/main/tidalConnect/sessionManager.js:79:24)
at Object.startOrResumeSession (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/app/main/tidalConnect/sessionManager.js:100:7)
at WebSocket.<anonymous> (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/app/main/tidalConnect/TidalConnectController.js:106:35)
at WebSocket.emit (node:events:519:28)
at WebSocket.setSocket (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/node_modules/ws/lib/websocket.js:251:10)
at ClientRequest.<anonymous> (/Applications/TIDAL.app/Contents/Resources/app.asar/node_modules/ws/lib/websocket.js:1012:15)
at ClientRequest.emit (node:events:519:28)
at TLSSocket.socketOnData (node:_http_client:580:11)

And then Tidal flashed an error that "Tidal can't find the internet device" or something to that effect....it didn't display long. 

Then I couldn't select the WiiM using either Tidal Connect or Chromecast

I had to reboot the WiiM.   

I'm going to send this to WiiM tech support although as mentioned above, I had troubles with another DLNA hardware and it is pointing to some Sequoia handshaking error.

Maybe I'll throw it at Apple as well.

If the Java error makes sense above - let me know.

Update:  Many weeks ago, as an attempt to solve the hanging problems, I disabled WiFi on the Mac.   I had both ethernet and WiFi enabled and since I couldn't remember why I had both enabled, I turned off one of them.   Recently, I turned it back on and got the above errors.   So I disabled WiFi again and the errors went away on Tidal.   Most of the hanging issues with MC above were with WiFi disabled, so this was the Tidal player only.

[HaWi]

Thanks. 
I have the music files on a NAS but it doesn’t seem to matter.

My media are on a NAS as well (Synology DS1918+). They are all in a folder 'music' that is mounted on my machines via SMB. If MC loses the connection to the mounted media folder that could possibly lead to a hang but I haven't tested that.
After letting MC33 run over night there is no issue in my case. It works just fine. So there is likely something specific to your setup that is related to the hangs.

[Dennis in FL]

Are any of your JRiver devices using DLNA as end points?

[HaWi]

No, I try to avoid DLNA because it won't do multichannel

[Dennis in FL]

No, I try to avoid DLNA because it won't do multichannel

I have no issues with Linux MC, Windows MC, or streamers other than DLNA. 

Just Mac.   

[Dennis in FL]

Dennis - in the last couple of weeks Apple have released 4 betas for the next version of Sequoia in shorter intervals between beta versions than normal, hopefully that urgency is an indication that Apple are in the process of correcting whatever is causing communicating via DLNA to misbehave and give problems.

Yes!!!   

You were right!!!

MC and Sequoia 15.1 are not compatible with Media Network checked.   I installed Sequoia 15.2 yesterday and everything works like it should for 24 hours now!!!!

MC seems a little snappier now, as well.  But I don't see what the fix was in the release notes.   https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos-release-notes/macos-15_2-release-notes

A big thanks to Bob for tirelessly staying with me & looking for the bug.

[EnglishTiger]

I'm glad to hear that updating to Sequoia 15.2 has resulted in a "Return to Normal Service"

You are not the only one who wondered if the DLNA problem had been fixed because I also couldn't find any mention of it in the release notes; since it has I suppose we can write Apple failing to mention any OS fixes/corrections down to their habit of never mentioning OS fixes/corrections in an ordinary release.

But there is another thing about that 15.2 release that had me puzzled; Apple announced the release of the IOS version of Sequoia release  2 but kept very quite about the OS release. Which I found odd since 15.2 is the release that gives users in the other countries where English is the Official Language, the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand, access to Apple AI.

[JimH]

I'm glad to here that updating to Sequoia 15.2 has resulted in a "Return to Normal Service"

You are not the only one who wondered if the DLNA problem had been fixed because I also couldn't find any mention of it in the release notes; since it has I suppose we can write Apple failing to mention any OS fixes/corrections down to their habit of never mentioning OS fixes/corrections in an ordinary release.

Apple doesn't support DLNA so they wouldn't fix it.

It was probably a more fundamental network support problem.

[bob]

Apple doesn't support DLNA so they wouldn't fix it.

It was probably a more fundamental network support problem.

Yes, probably something to do with sleep and socket connections. Explains why Time Machine was broken too.

[Dennis in FL]

Yes, probably something to do with sleep and socket connections. Explains why Time Machine was broken too.

And we had the dialog box crashes.

The only thing remotely close in the Sequoia 15.2 release notes is

Fixed: Views won’t accept dropped directories if UTType.directory or UTType.fileURL are not in the list of accepted content types for drop. (138158126)

There must be more fixes not listed.

[Dennis in FL]

As an aside the Mac Mini m4 is quite the performer

JRMark (version 33.0.44 64 bit): 11022

[EnglishTiger]

As an aside the Mac Mini m4 is quite the performer

JRMark (version 33.0.44 64 bit): 11022

Dennis that's only 2,000 below the 13024 score for my Mini with the M4 Pro chip and if you look in the Benchmark thread the highest score reported for an AMD Ryzen CPU was 9532 - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,54396.0.html