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[jctcom]

Hi all.

I am wondering if there is any difference at all between .thd & .mka files.  I have been ripping my Dolby Atmos Blu-Ray Audio disks so I can play them without having to load the disk up each time.  I extract the files to .thd using DVD Audio Extractor. 

I have been converting them to .mka (Just by renaming the extensions) because I seem to remember reading somewhere that .mka was taggable where as .thd is not.

That does not seem to be the case though.  At least JRiver does not seem to be able to save most of the tag information so I am wondering.

1. Am I doing something wrong that my .mka files are not able to have the tags saved within them?  or
2. Is there any point in changing them from .thd to .mka  Either way I only really play them in JRiver so not sure there is any point in changing the extension if it is not going to make them taggable?

Thanks in advance.

Carl.

[Hendrik]

Media Center does not support writing tags to .mka files at this time.

Additionally, just renaming a file does not change its type and add additional capabilities to it, the actual format is what matters.

[jctcom]

Media Center does not support writing tags to .mka files at this time.

Additionally, just renaming a file does not change its type and add additional capabilities to it, the actual format is what matters.

So I am better to just leave them as .thd?  Will Media Center play those?  Also I don't think .thd will ever be taggable where as I think some programs already can tag .mka?  Maybe Media center will be able to save their tags down the road?

Carl.

Edit:  Actually I just verified.  MC will not play .thd files.  Comes up with error "Media Center Was Installed For a different operating system" when trying to add them to the play window.  Maybe a bug?

Plays the files just fine once file type is changed to .mka (Except I think Gapless does not work?  Have to verify that), so not sure why it won't play them as .thd files.

Carl

[jctcom]

Media Center does not support writing tags to .mka files at this time.

Additionally, just renaming a file does not change its type and add additional capabilities to it, the actual format is what matters.

Hi Hendrik.

Can you take a look at my last post?  Is MC supposed to be able to play .thd files?

If not why would that be when it plays the same files as .mka files (after changing the extension)?

Thanks.

Carl.

[jctcom]

So I am better to just leave them as .thd?  Will Media Center play those?  Also I don't think .thd will ever be taggable where as I think some programs already can tag .mka?  Maybe Media center will be able to save their tags down the road?

Carl.

Edit:  Actually I just verified.  MC will not play .thd files.  Comes up with error "Media Center Was Installed For a different operating system" when trying to add them to the play window.  Maybe a bug?

Plays the files just fine once file type is changed to .mka (Except I think Gapless does not work?  Have to verify that), so not sure why it won't play them as .thd files.

Carl

Can I please get a verification on this?  Is Media Center not compatible with .thd files?

Thanks.

Carl.

[Hendrik]

Well as you have seen yourself, MC can play these files, as you have found out by renaming them. As I've mentioned before, renaming them does not change the structure of the file. The name is often meaningless, and may just be used to link to the right application, so giving it any name that MC knows as audio would make it work in this case.

I do not know what format those thd files actually are in, however. Maybe raw truehd? That would be a terrible format, audio should never be "raw". Maybe mp4 or mka with a weird name? Who knows.

Unless its some variant of mp4, its unlikely we'll be ever able to tag them. I can teach MC about the file extension, so playback works without renaming, however.

[jctcom]

The files are created by using DVD Audio Extractor and setting the export type to "Direct Stream Demux" which for music Blu-Rays and the TrueHD Atmos tracks creates the files with the .thd extension.

This is the only way I have found to create individual tracks with the TrueHD and Atmos components intact.

It may indeed be a "RAW" file as you suggested but I don't know of any other way to extract the Atmos audio tracks so I can add them to my library and play them as individual tracks with TrueHD and Atmos intact.

btw what is the reason why we should not have "RAW" versions of audio files?

Carl

[whoareyou]

Even if MC plays the file it's not going to play it as ATMOS unless you are bitstreaming to a device (avr).  Is that what you are doing?  For tagging I believe you could use sidecar files.

Have you seen the discussions on decoding ATMOS TO wav over on Audiophilestyle.com? For example:
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/immersive/lossless-truehd-atmos-just-got-much-easier-r1170/
Once you decode to wav, tagging and gapless playback are no longer issues.

If you want to go this route, you'll need the Dolby Reference Player.  You'd be best off asking some of the folks over in that group about the decoding process.

[jctcom]

Even if MC plays the file it's not going to play it as ATMOS unless you are bitstreaming to a device (avr).  Is that what you are doing? 

Yes I have been doing that for months now.

For tagging I believe you could use sidecar files.

Doesn't JRiver create those automatically?  I see them in folders throughout  my system.  Or is it primarily for Video related files?

Have you seen the discussions on decoding ATMOS TO wav over on Audiophilestyle.com? For example:
https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/immersive/lossless-truehd-atmos-just-got-much-easier-r1170/
Once you decode to wav, tagging and gapless playback are no longer issues.

Cool.  i will have to take a look at that.  So wav maintains the Atmos coding?

If you want to go this route, you'll need the Dolby Reference Player.  You'd be best off asking some of the folks over in that group about the decoding process.

Why do I need the Dolby Reference Player?  Does JRiver not read the additional coding from the wav files for atmos?

[whoareyou]

Only licensed hardware (such as AVRs) or software i.e.  the Dolby Reference Player can decode TrueHD Atmos.  Mac hardware can also decode Atmos, but it decodes at lower bitrate codec (similar to Atmos streaming services) , so you lose full resolution of TrueHD. 

The wav file created by the reference player represents properly decoded TrueHD audio per your selected configuration i.e. 5.1.2, 7.1.4, etc.....  I believe that when you decode with DRP it basically plays back each track and writes it out to wav file.
Once you have figured out howe to get DRP, the Music Media Helper tool (free) makes it all pretty easy. 
JRiver just added a 5.1.4 and 7.1.4 output format that works perfectly with these wav files.
You'll get a bunch of great information by reading through the comments in the article on audiophilestyle that I provided link.
Everyone over there is great and it's best place to get questions answered regarding decoding if you go that route.

[jctcom]

Hi.  I just read that article.  I see they are trying to reproduce the atmos sound and I guess send it out via PCM?

I am actually quite happy with bit streaming it to my receiver.  The sound is amazing and I know it is authentic because the receiver tells me it is decoding TruHD / Atmos.

Doing via Wav files you will just have to trust that the software did it properly.  No real way to be sure.  It could be just some approximation like the surround Matrix profiles that exist in most receivers.

I would like them to be taggable.  But really the only place I play them is in JRiver and it keeps all the metadata so the tagging though it would be nice it's not essential to being able to organize and listen  to the music. (At least not till I get Atmos in the car! jk)

Carl

[TheShoe]

Use MusicMediaHelper.  Once you rip the full disc (eg use MakeMKV full backup), Music Media Helper can then extract the Atmos tracks to mka files.  These will play back full Atmos when bitstreamed to a supporting AVR.  I'm doing it as I type

I don't think gapless playback works however

[jctcom]

Actually that's great if it works.  It will cut out a step since AnyDVD HD went away.

I have been using MakeMKV to backup the disc and then using Daemon Tools Ultra to put it back into ISO Format without the encryption so that I can rip using DVD-Audio Extractor.

This way I shouldn't need to create those ISOs.

I think I played around with MusicMediaHelper in the past but I didn't realize it could extract from BDMV folders.

Thanks.

Carl.

[whoareyou]

Hi.  I just read that article.  I see they are trying to reproduce the atmos sound and I guess send it out via PCM?

Doing via Wav files you will just have to trust that the software did it properly.  No real way to be sure.  It could be just some approximation like the surround Matrix profiles that exist in most receivers.

Well, then you can use the sidecar files for tagging.  I think I also tried cue files at one point and that also worked.
And yes, the wav files are intended to be sent to multichannel DAC.
But as far as trusting the software I think there's some misconception here.   It's written by Dolby and used by engineers creating Atmos music for playback.  They wouldn't want to playback via an AVR because they probably wouldn't trust the AVR .  I

[jctcom]

But as far as trusting the software I think there's some misconception here.   It's written by Dolby and used by engineers creating Atmos music for playback.  They wouldn't want to playback via an AVR because they probably wouldn't trust the AVR .  I

Not sure what you mean by that?  Since it has been decoded and played via AVR since it's inception in pretty much every home via bit streaming?

Unless I am not understanding what you are saying.   In any case it looks like I would have to pay $300 to get the software required to do it this way.  And that's probably in $US. 

Not going to spend that when I already have a working solution (Except for tagging and Gapless).  But even at that Gapless only really comes into play when listening straight through an album and I can do that by playing the Index.bdmv file.  So again.  it would be nice but not going to spend $300 to get something I already have for the most part.