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[DennisJames]

Hi everyone

I am using the latest edition of JRiver Media Centre 33 in Windows 11 64 bit. Just love the program. It's been a few years since last I wanted to burn an audio CD. But  today i needed to do that for a friend. 

I have a Pioneer BLURAY/CD burner and it reads cds and rips just fine, when i go to burn in JRiver the program doesn't see the blank CD-R media, shows no disc, tried a couple same deal.

The brand of disc is Verbatim, which appears to be about it out there today, certainly since i used them last.

Any ideas why, Windows Media Player and Nero see it as a blank cd-r  and burn, but no disc in JRiver. I went through the process of ignoring the message and set a list to burn, but when I tried to execute the burn no go the message of inserting media comes up.

I have trolled through some of the posts over the years but most have issues not seeing the drive, as i said i can read and rip pre recorded stuff no worries at all.
 
regards

Dennis

[JimH]

I don't think you can write to a CD-R.  You need CD-RW (Read Write).

When you burn, make sure you "close" the disc.

[dtc]

You can write to a CD-R once and to a CD-RW more than once. The R stands for Recordable.

[DennisJames]

Thank you i understand the cd-r and cd-rw discs used lots over the years, my issue is that JRiver sees no disc in my drive when there is one, so it will not burn a cd. Windows native media player sees the blank disc and records to it, why not inside JRiver? To me if it works in the Windows environment it should in JRiver Media Centre but does not.

[HPBEME]

If you have not seen or toggled the various options shown in the picture below, maybe give that a shot.

Mine is set to "Do Nothing", and MC sees my optical drive.  That said, I have seen a number of other threads in just the last couple of months describing your same issue.  I also recall this has been a off and on issue over many many years for MC.  Not sure why it is so difficult to solve once and for all.

I have never encountered this myself though, so I can't point to something that definitively solves it. I am on Windows 10 and my optical drive is approximately 13 years old (cannot remember the brand) - maybe that helps for some reason?  Ha ha. 

[dtc]

Mine is set to "Do Nothing", and MC sees my optical drive.

What I have seen is that MC sees the drive but does not recognize that there is a CD-R in the drive ready to be written to.

[markf2748]

What I have seen is that MC sees the drive but does not recognize that there is a CD-R in the drive ready to be written to.

I've seen a similar problem for years, but for me it occurs intermittently (more often than not) when trying to rip a redbook CD from an external USB LG Slim DVD Portable Writer.  Six months ago the old workhorse drive died and I replaced it with a brand new LG drive.  Problem remains:  MC sees the drive, but intermittently does not recognize there is a CD in it.

The problem only occurs when I open the drive door to insert the CD from within MC Drives & Devices > Compact Disc > Eject.  Every time, if I disconnect the USB cable and plug it back in after seeing MC's message, then MC finds the CD.  If the CD drawer is first "ejected" from a Windows desktop shortcut, then MC always (as far as I recall) sees the CD.  It's as if MC has some intermittent USB initial communication bug following its eject command (which itself always opens the door, but media recognition subsequently often fails), especially when drive has not been accessed for some time.

My drive is connected through a USB hub.  But changing the hub, plugging into different ports, different cables, or leaving the USB cable connected directly to the computer have never resolved the issue.

Over the years I occasionally accessed the drive with other applications, such as VLC.  When I did so there was never a problem.

I've tried looking at log files, but between it being intermittent and my limited knowledge I could never definitively recognize a root cause.

So I am wondering if there is any common thread here observed by others:
(1) Are you loading the media after using MC's eject to open the drive door?
(2) Does opening the drive door by ejecting from a Windows desktop shortcut "fix" your problem?
(3) Does disconnecting/reconnecting the USB drive cable after seeing the missing media message temporarily "fix" it?

LG drives:
old:   SP60NB50
new: SP80NB80

[dtc]

Interesting observations.

In my case, I simple connect the drive to usb and then open and close the drawer with the button on the drive. I never use MC or Windows commands for doing that. To burn a disk, I select the files and then select Burn Disc from the Action Window.  Again, my problem is that it sees the drive but not the blank disc for burming.

Unfortunately, I do not have CD-R disks at my current location, so cannot test.

I will say that over the years different CD players have behaved differently, so it is hard to figure out the exact problem.

[dtc]

So I got some CD-R for testing. System is W10 and current MC version.  This is a completely different system and drive that when I first reported the problem. But the result is the same - MC sees the drive but it cannot write to the disc in the drive. It does not recognize that there is a disc to write to. However, Windows Media Player can write to the drive and MC can rip the disc that Media Player wrote. Media Player write a CD format disc, not a data disk. Windows can write a data format to a disc in the drive.

My conclusion has to be that for some reason the MC Burner function is not functioning, at least for my setup.

[Matt]

I just did a test burn on a CD-R and it worked fine for me. If you try old builds do they work any different? Thanks.

[dtc]

Thanks for checking.  At least it is not a general problem. Unfortunately, I am afraid it is is device specific which makes it very hard to track down. That has been my experience in the past.   I still have 32 installed and can try that.  Thanks.

[dtc]

Well, I ran MC 32.0.58 and that worked fine. So I installed 33.0.20,30,35,39 and 41 and they all worked fine. Not sure what happened. The only thing I did was run MC 32 and after after that everything worked. I did not even take the disc out of the drive between running the original 33 and then 32. Running 32 may have changed something or the new install of 33.0.20 changed something, but, at least for now, things are working OK. Strange.

Thanks for looking at this.

[JimH]

Maybe other software had control of the drive.

[dtc]

I do not think so, unless is was something to do with MC 33.  Nothing changed on my system from it not working on 33 and working on 32. All I did was close 33 and start 32 - literally 30 seconds apart.

[markf2748]

I've seen a similar problem for years, but for me it occurs intermittently (more often than not) when trying to rip a redbook CD from an external USB LG Slim DVD Portable Writer...

The problem for me appears to be very poor MC messaging.  Here is a detailed description of me trying to rip a CD:

(0) Optional first step:  Tree > Drives & Devices > Compact Disc (F:) > left click.
Missing Disc Message:  “There is no disc.  Insert a disc and double-click here to refresh."
New view Tab with label:  “No disc in drive”.
At this point, this is accurate.

(1) Tree > Drives & Devices > Compact Disc (F:) > Eject

(2) Door opens.  Insert CD and close the door.  CD drive spins up (based on sound).
Missing Disc Message:  “There is no disc.  Insert a disc and double-click here to refresh."
New view Tab with label:  “No disc in drive”.

(3) Double-click on Missing Disc Message – nothing happens.

(4) Wait until drive stops spinning (based on sound).

(5) Double-click on same static Missing Disc Message – nothing happens.
View Tab label:  “No disc in drive”.
User continues to believe there is a problem.

(7) Action Window > Rip Disc
Missing Disc Message is unchanged:  “There is no disc.  Insert a disc and double-click here to refresh."
View Tab label unchanged:  “No disc in drive”.
Sometimes there is an additional No Disc pop up message.
No response to user rip request from action window.

(8 ) Drives & Devices > Compact Disc (F:) > RMB > Rip Disc

(9) MC shows CD file list in the ripping disc Tab view.  Proceed to tag & rip.

During steps (1)-(7) MC acts/signals as if nothing has happened.  In reality, MC detected the CD, spun it up, read it, internally created a track list, and then stopped spinning.  The user has no indication (other than sound of the disc spin) that all this has actually happened, and continues to be misled by the Missing Disc Message.

Suggestions:
1) As soon as the CD starts to spin up, remove the stale messages from the user interface and view header label.  Replace them with messages indicating the CD is being read, something more meaningful than Windows intermittent spinning arrows.

2) When CD has been read and stops spinning, immediately show the CD track list or some other status message.  Update the view header label.

3) Assure that Action Window > Rip disc is in sync with what's happening and always has correct response.

Note:  When drive door is opened from Windows shortcut the messaging gets a little more accurate and so user is led to believe the process actually works better.  Something similar likely happens when the USB cable is unplugged/re-plugged.  I am guessing that in reality, under the hood, everything is perfectly OK with the rip sequence in all three of my cases.  But the user is confused to varying degrees by lack of accurate timely messaging and inconsistent UI behavior.

11/14/2024 Update the Note.

[dtc]

Mark - Mine was a different problem, but I do agree there is something unknown happening with burning/ripping. I always thought it was some cache type issue, but have never been able to reproduce it regularly. I think it is going to be hard to pin down.

[craigmcg]

I'm no expert but I have seen weird issues with different legit softwares like Calibre, DBPoweramp, etc. failing when trying to interact with drives/folders etc. What I tripped over that helped me resolve these issues on a few of my pcs were Windows Defender notifications that were tied to Protected Folder Access being enabled or Data Execution Protection being enabled.  Once I allowed the program that was refused access, and retried, the programs worked.

Hope that this helps.

[marko]

Here's what I reported back in December last year...

Does anyone still do this?

I make backup DVD discs of our photos. These are managed from within MC. They don't happen too often, maybe 18-24 months apart.

I burned one today, and here's how that went...

I dropped 4.4 Gb of photos into the burn queue for my 4.38 Gb disc. MC informed me that was too much. I decided not to overburn, and as I wanted control over what was goiing to be burned, I cancelled the job, clearing the burn queue.

I fixed the total file size and dropped again. Now, MC is telling me there is no writeable media available. No amount of refreshing, or even opening and closing the drive tray could clear this message.

I pressed the "Burn" button anyway and the disc burned, really slowly, but successfully. During the burn, I pressed the "Details" link on the "Burn" dialogue. It took me to the drive page and told me there were no files present. I was expecting to see the burn queue and it's progress.

It all felt quite disconnected/disjointed. The visual feedback was all wrong, but in the background, the burn happened successfully. Personally, I don't mind so much as long as it worked, but for others, it could be perceived as sloppy, or so disconcerting they abandon the burn, or maybe even, the entire product.

BTW, I've never said, but, see those burn options for file/folder naming... That is sooo good. Does anyone else even offer that? JRiver could shout louder about that, perhaps? Nothing wrong with blowing your own trumpet when there's no arguing about it

[JimH]

I'm no expert but I have seen weird issues with different legit softwares like Calibre, DBPoweramp, etc. failing when trying to interact with drives/folders etc. What I tripped over that helped me resolve these issues on a few of my pcs were Windows Defender notifications that were tied to Protected Folder Access being enabled or Data Execution Protection being enabled.  Once I allowed the program that was refused access, and retried, the programs worked.

Which points to permissions problems with Windows Defender.

[craigmcg]

Which points to permissions problems with Windows Defender.

Exactly. Since these options have been around prior to MC 33 and I tripped over them with two other programs, I'm guessing that they might be part (or all) of the problem being reported.

[dtc]

In my case, Protected File Access is turned off. DEP is set only for essential Windows Processes only. I really do not think that is the cause of these problems.  And it would not explain why burning disks works sometimes and not others.

[dtc]

Another ripping problem here.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,139583.0.html

[markf2748]

Here's what I reported back in December last year...

Thanks for posting this.  It seems to strongly reinforce what I reported above in Reply #14 for ripping CDs, in terms of inadequate UI communications during drive operations.  Maybe not the only problem, but definitely there.  This is a logical place for JRiver to start before even attempting to address some of the other issues.

I don't believe marko's or my reported behavior have anything to do with permissions or security, since in the end, the operations "mysteriously" completed!

[craigmcg]

Oh well, it was worth a try.

[dtc]

Oh well, it was worth a try.

Thanks for your comment. It worked for you so was something to consider. This is a tough issue.

[Awesome Donkey]

I wonder if something could be somehow locking the drive and preventing MC from seeing it? Another app, Windows itself or something as such? I also seem to recall there's several APIs used in Windows used to read/write discs too, I wonder if something changed/broke in newer Windows versions?

[JimH]

My bet is also on Windows.  Our CD code hasn't changed for years.

Maybe file associations.

[dtc]

In my case when I had the burn problem, both Windows Explorer and Windows Media Player recognized the drive and could write to it.  But MC saw the drive in Drives + Devices but does not see it in the Action Window Burn Disc option. So it is not a general Windows lock problem. It seemed specific to MC.

When I saw the problem on MC 33, at Matt's suggestion, I closed MC 33 and opened MC 32 right after that (seconds) and MC 32 saw the disc immediately. So, only MC 33 was seeing the problem. If when I see the problem, it is a lock problem then it seems that maybe MC may be reading the lock incorrectly sometimes.

That's why I think it could be a buffer/cache/drive interaction type issue. That would be consistent with the other problem being reported here - that when ripping the list of tracks is out of sync and sometimes the tag information is not seen. If that is a lock problem, then MC does not seem to recognize a change in the lock status and uses the old data in the rip process but reads the disc.

I understand that this software has not been changed in a while, but the rip problems also go back many versions. The problem is they are not consistent and even sometimes seems to change based on the drive.

One perhaps related observation. When I unplug the drive, it still shows when I click it under Drives + Devices and shows the que. After hitting refresh it says to insert a disc. However, it still seems to think the drive it there in the Drives + Device list.  In Windows Explorer, the drive disappears when the drive it unplugged.

I am open to anything and know how hard it is to track down these intermittent problems.

[markf2748]

When I saw the problem on MC 33, at Matt's suggestion, I closed MC 33 and opened MC 32 right after that (seconds) and MC 32 saw the disc immediately. So, only MC 33 was seeing the problem. If when I see the problem, it is a lock problem then it seems that maybe MC may be reading the lock incorrectly sometimes.

Possible.  In my case, I am really struck by how MC immediately responds when I unplug/re-plug the drive's USB cable, hands off the keyboard and mouse.  This happens every time, at least for the past year.  I would have expected MC to lose information or connection status and have to start over again, but no, it "corrects itself" immediately and marches on just fine.  So maybe the cable action caused something to get unlocked, or caused some MC process to try again.  Usually when this happens, MC continues to be OK with additional follow-on rips of CDs.  But wait long enough, and the problem reappears.  Huh??  Stranger than fiction. 

Similarly, maybe it is not the difference between MC33 and MC32 per se which you see, but just the quick interruption/changeover which loosened things up.  In your test, did MC32 continue working OK, say a few hours or a day later?

Another thought: Use MC33 until you break it.  Switch to MC32 and confirm it works.  Then switch back to MC33 ... is it still broken? [edit: Reviewing Reply #11, I see you may have already tried this.]

[DennisJames]

Well i tried the previous version in the 32 series and still had no joy, no disc when there was one. Maybe in fairness because I had the latest version installed on this machine and no previous versions, that might of prevented MC 32 from reading the disk, who knows, Windows does it's own thing as we know Seriously hoping though one of team does solve this, if it can be i guess is the question.