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[Captor]

I have a strange sound coming from my left loudspeaker about every 5 second. I just hear it today and I wonder if anyone have noticed the same?
Also I wonder if there might be a problem with my Windows 11 PC or if it might be the receiver?

The sound is there when both receiver and PC are on and connected by the USB-cable. If I unplug the cable the sound is gone. Or if I turn of the PC the sound is gone too.

I attach an audio file here and maybe someone have had similar scraping sound and can point out the direction for me?
It is MC32.

Thanks,

[JimH]

Receiver?

Try switching the speaker wires.

[Captor]

Hi Jim, I have now switched the speaker wires and now the sound comes from the right speaker instead.
However, if I play a CD from the CD-player (connected the same receiver) there is not this strange sound. That makes me to think the problem is in the PC. Or am I thinking wrong?
That are the 2 sources that are connected to the receiver, the PC and the CD-player.

[mattkhan]

Sounds like some sort of distortion, something clipping maybe?

[Captor]

CORRECTION! After i did change speaker wires and then change back again I can hear the noise from BOTH loudspeakers!
Hmm..

Does that eliminate the receiver?

[Captor]

Sounds like some sort of distortion, something clipping maybe?

Hi mattkhan, what do you mean by clipping?

[mattkhan]

The signal being played is too loud, eg some dsp is applied to boost

Actually you mentioned the usb cable so it's probably something like PSU noise bleeding through

[Captor]

The signal being played is too loud, eg some dsp is applied to boost

Actually you mentioned the usb cable so it's probably something like PSU noise bleeding through

I see, so bringing back the PC to the shop and ask them to change the PSU? The PC is from April 2023 so not so old.

[Captor]

The signal being played is too loud, eg some dsp is applied to boost

Actually you mentioned the usb cable so it's probably something like PSU noise bleeding through

One more thought, if I watch a movie with Kodi, for movies I use another receiver (Denon) and other loudspeakers, then there is no noise. Can the PSU noise bleed trough on one receiver (Audionet) but not the other? If there is problem with the PSU in the PC.

The problem is only with the Audionet receiver that is connected with a USB-cable. Not other sound sources. Do you still have the theory that it might be the PSU? Because the Audionet is more powerful and sensitive?

[craigmcg]

Silly question but have you tried another USB cable to the Audionet receiver? I ask because sometimes the cable itself being faulty allows more interference from the power supply etc.  to enter the signal chain. No promises but if this resolves the issue, a cheap fix.

[Captor]

Silly question but have you tried another USB cable to the Audionet receiver? I ask because sometimes the cable itself being faulty allows more interference from the power supply etc.  to enter the signal chain. No promises but if this resolves the issue, a cheap fix.

Hi, Thank you very much! It is not a silly question at all. I have tried 3 different USB A - USB B cables so far and no different. But I have also not found another cause. When I have talked to the local HiFi expert, he said it might be 4G and especially 5G interference coming in to the USB cable and in to the receiver.
He said I should try with a really well (and expensive :-)) isolated cable.

In the meantime I have also noted that the sound is there also when my computer is off! But when I unplug the USB cable from the computer the noise is gone. I think that is strange. The noise is there when the USB is plugged in the PC and it dosenīt matter if the computer is on or off! But when unplug the noise is gone. That points to the cable I think.

Until I have found a top notch cable I have gone down in volume on the receiver and instead increased the volume in the PC (JRiver), and with that setting I canīt hear the noise as well. So I think you are spot on:-)

[craigmcg]

Thanks for the added info about using lower volume from the pc but turning up the Audionet receiver; by reducing the desired signal strength of the pc, you've been unintentionally making it closer in volume level to the unwanted noise caused by interference. Since you say that the noise disappears when the cable is unplugged from the pc, my gut says that the interference/noise is coming from the pc/power supply as mattkhan said. If the interference were cell traffic like the HiFi shop mentioned, I'd expect that the noise would be the same or even worse when disconnected from the pc. Note that unless the pc power supply switch is turned off or the power cord is unplugged, there is still power from the power supply to the motherboard etc. which explains why you're still hearing the noise when the pc is turned off (but not powered off completely or the cable is disconnected).

My first suggestion is to do what you are now doing-keeping the wanted signal "hot" or as strong as you can safely do so that minimal amplification by the Audionet is required which would reveal the noise. This by the way is why devices signal to noise ratio (S/N) is always calculated at full volume.

My second suggestion if this is insufficient to reduce/eliminate the noise is to invest in a USB audio isolation transformer (as recommended to me earlier by power user eve) between the pc and the Audionet receiver. This would require one USB cable from the pc to the transformer and a second USB cable from the transformer and the Audionet receiver.

While I haven't yet bought one because I have minimal noise coming through my system, Topping Audio out of China has two such transformers the HS01 and the HS02 (the one that I might yet buy) at https://www.toppingaudio.com/products-list/others and available for sale through Apos Audio, Amazon, etc.

There may be better transformers out there but I think that this purchase would be worth considering IF you are  still hearing the interference/noise.

Good luck!

[Captor]

Thanks for the reply and your suggestions. I have never hear about this and it is very interesting and I might want to try that HS02. It says it only supports USB2.0 devices. So I must check that with Audionet? Or is it the cable they are meaning when they say "devices"? The receiver is not so young anymore..

i have since last message done a test with a laptop from a neighbor. I did the test with only battery as power source and there was still the same phenomenon as if my own PC uses the power supply. There is still the noise in both loudspeakers until I unplug the USB cable or lowering the volume in the Audionet. So it look like also with only battery power it appears.

[craigmcg]

To my knowledge, there are very few if any consumer audio devices (DAC, etc.) that require/support/USB 3.0+, almost all are USB 2.0 so I doubt that there would be compatibility issues but I've never seen or used an Audionet device.

Does your Audionet receiver have another digital input that you could test like SPDIF with a different source to see if the issue is within the receiver itself?

[AGAWA]

ground loop, USB socket ?

[Captor]

To my knowledge, there are very few if any consumer audio devices (DAC, etc.) that require/support/USB 3.0+, almost all are USB 2.0 so I doubt that there would be compatibility issues but I've never seen or used an Audionet device.

Does your Audionet receiver have another digital input that you could test like SPDIF with a different source to see if the issue is within the receiver itself?

There is only a Coax and Optical and actually also a normal USB A it look like. I have not noticed that one before. So no SPDIF. Please see attached pic.

[Captor]

ground loop, USB socket ?

Could be of course but I have no way or possibility to check that.

[mwillems]

There is only a Coax and Optical and actually also a normal USB A it look like. I have not noticed that one before. So no SPDIF. Please see attached pic.

Both coax and optical are usually different types of SPDIF inputs.  If you can test either of those (especially the optical connection if you can) that will provide important troubleshooting information.  For example if the noise is still present with an optical SPDIF input, you can probably rule out electrical interference from the computer as a source of the distortion.

Could be of course but I have no way or possibility to check that.

You can test the USB socket by trying a different USB output socket on the computer (preferably a USB 2.0 port on the computer if you have one). That may sound silly, but USB 3 sockets are actually known to generate interference because of the way they're sometimes implemented in computers (see this white paper by Intel: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/327216.pdf). 

I've had computers where connecting to USB 3 ports generated audible interference that sounded a bit like your distortion sample, but connecting to USB 2 ports did not generate that same interference.  Many modern computers don't have this issue anymore, but it's very easy to test and that might be worth your time to investigate.

[Captor]

Both coax and optical are usually different types of SPDIF inputs.  If you can test either of those (especially the optical connection if you can) that will provide important troubleshooting information.  For example if the noise is still present with an optical SPDIF input, you can probably rule out electrical interference from the computer as a source of the distortion.

You can test the USB socket by trying a different USB output socket on the computer (preferably a USB 2.0 port on the computer if you have one). That may sound silly, but USB 3 sockets are actually known to generate interference because of the way they're sometimes implemented in computers (see this white paper by Intel: https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/327216.pdf). 

I've had computers where connecting to USB 3 ports generated audible interference that sounded a bit like your distortion sample, but connecting to USB 2 ports did not generate that same interference.  Many modern computers don't have this issue anymore, but it's very easy to test and that might be worth your time to investigate.

Thanks for answering. Very interesting report about radio frequency interference in USB 3 sockets. I did not know that before. They (Intel) are presenting some easy to understand cases with a mouse lagging or not answering at all.

I have already tested other USB 2 ports on the PC and there was no difference unfortunately. The sound is there still. And it look like there is no USB 3 port at all. Also there is no Coax or Optical port as far I can see on the backside. Sorry.

[AGAWA]

try very simple test, get another PC and see  if you get the same noise.

[Captor]

try very simple test, get another PC and see  if you get the same noise.

Hi, I have done that already with a laptop and battery power only. I have also changed the USB ports on the media computer. Same noise unfortunately.

[craigmcg]

@Captor- do you currently have another known good source (cd player, dvd player etc.) that plays through your Audionet receiver? I ask this to try to confirm whether the noise is coming from the pc or the Audionet itself. If you only have one source (your pc) currently connected, we can't yet be sure which device is generating the noise. For testing purposes, could you connect a different known good source to both a digital input (in a addition to the USB input that you've been testing) then to an analog input?

I suggest that you try a known good analog source through the Audionet first as this would bypass any DAC related circuitry. If you do NOT get the noise and playback is normal, the issue is likely to be in the DAC related circuitry of the Audionet. If you DO get the noise, the issue is likely to be in the analog/output circuitry of the Audionet.

If the different digital source when connected to either the optical or coaxial digital input does NOT generate the noise, the noise could be coming from the USB input/circuitry on the Audionet receiver (since you get the same behaviour with more than one pc/USB cable). If this testing DOES generate the noise, the noise could be coming from the DAC related circuitry independent of the digital source input.

In my opinion, more diagnostic testing/results are required to advance.

 

[zybex]

Have you checked if there's any firmware upgrade for the Audionet? Their website also says you need to install their own USB driver, so make sure that's updated too.
https://en.audionet.de/machines/dna-i/

It sounds like it's just playing normal USB packets as if they were audio. Try disabling extra USB features in the PC BIOS, such as PD/USB-Charging protocols, perhaps the Audionet doesn't understand them.

Anolog/RF noise interference over a digital cable is not a thing, unless the amp is very badly designed, not properly grounded, or malfunctioning. Any such interference is added just before the amp stage, not on the digital transport.

[Captor]

@Captor- do you currently have another known good source (cd player, dvd player etc.) that plays through your Audionet receiver? I ask this to try to confirm whether the noise is coming from the pc or the Audionet itself. If you only have one source (your pc) currently connected, we can't yet be sure which device is generating the noise. For testing purposes, could you connect a different known good source to both a digital input (in a addition to the USB input that you've been testing) then to an analog input?

I suggest that you try a known good analog source through the Audionet first as this would bypass any DAC related circuitry. If you do NOT get the noise and playback is normal, the issue is likely to be in the DAC related circuitry of the Audionet. If you DO get the noise, the issue is likely to be in the analog/output circuitry of the Audionet.

If the different digital source when connected to either the optical or coaxial digital input does NOT generate the noise, the noise could be coming from the USB input/circuitry on the Audionet receiver (since you get the same behaviour with more than one pc/USB cable). If this testing DOES generate the noise, the noise could be coming from the DAC related circuitry independent of the digital source input.

In my opinion, more diagnostic testing/results are required to advance.

 

Yes, I have tried with my CD player that is sending an analog signal to the receiver. And when doing so there was no noise. If connecting another digital source to the receiver, then it can be a problem because I donīt think I have any other digital source. I have already tried with the laptop and the noise was there still. Could I use the Samsung phone maybe? But the output there is USB C so then I should need a USB C - USB B/Coax/optical, hmm.. If the mobile would work for a test I can try to find a USB C to USB B cable. Or maybe an adapter USB C to USB A and then from USB A to the USB B in the receiver. That will be one more cable/adapter in the chain.

[JimH]

The CD player was using a different input on the receiver.

[JimH]

Can you borrow a receiver to see what happens?

I once had an intermittent static sound from my stereo and it was the receiver.  The new receiver was fine.

[AGAWA]

There is USB socket  on the back; i assume that Audionet can play from this input? Copy some music to flash drive and play it.

[Captor]

Have you checked if there's any firmware upgrade for the Audionet? Their website also says you need to install their own USB driver, so make sure that's updated too.
https://en.audionet.de/machines/dna-i/

It sounds like it's just playing normal USB packets as if they were audio. Try disabling extra USB features in the PC BIOS, such as PD/USB-Charging protocols, perhaps the Audionet doesn't understand them.

Anolog/RF noise interference over a digital cable is not a thing, unless the amp is very badly designed, not properly grounded, or malfunctioning. Any such interference is added just before the amp stage, not on the digital transport.

Thanks for answering. I have just now worked with the PC Bios and there I did only find a setting about constant power on the USBīs but that was disabled. So I enabled it and checked (no defference) so I disabled it again. I also checked other settings and disabled what I was unsure about but unfortunately I had no success.

[Captor]

Can you borrow a receiver to see what happens?

I once had an intermittent static sound from my stereo and it was the receiver.  The new receiver was fine.

Jim, if I could borrow a receiver that should have a DAC because mine have that or will that be OK to test without DAC as well?

[craigmcg]

Can you borrow a receiver to see what happens?

I once had an intermittent static sound from my stereo and it was the receiver.  The new receiver was fine.

@Captor- I think that you should try zybex's suggestion about the USB driver/firmware if you haven't already done so. If updating the driver/firmware doesn't resolve the issue and you don't have another known good source with a digital coax/optical output to test with your Audionet (which we now know based on your CD player testing has no issues after the DAC related section), Jim's idea to just try a borrowed receiver seems like the quickest and easiest next step. Since you're trying to replicate DAC functionality, the receiver needs to have a DAC built in.

Based on what you've tested already, the receiver looks to be the source of the noise.

[Captor]

There is USB socket  on the back; i assume that Audionet can play from this input? Copy some music to flash drive and play it.

Hi, that USB is to connect smaller USB Sticks, which are accessible from the remote control only. However, you cannot connect a PC or the like. I can try the test anyway.

However, I just found out that if I select streaming in then the noise is there as well. That is a digital input but I donīt use it. I have never used the streaming capability. But the noise is there still. And it is there all the time when I chose that input.

And the noise is from the USB Audio input as well. But it stops when I unplug the USB cable from either the computer or from the receiver.

[Captor]

@Captor- I think that you should try zybex's suggestion about the USB driver/firmware if you haven't already done so. If updating the driver/firmware doesn't resolve the issue and you don't have another known good source with a digital coax/optical output to test with your Audionet (which we now know based on your CD player testing has no issues after the DAC related section), Jim's idea to just try a borrowed receiver seems like the quickest and easiest next step. Since you're trying to replicate DAC functionality, the receiver needs to have a DAC built in.

Based on what you've tested already, the receiver looks to be the source of the noise.

Yes, I think that too, please see my latest post to about the streaming input that I posted at the same time. It is not easy to find another receiver to borrow with a DAC. I have another receive but that one has no DAC unfortunately.
But on my CD player I have an analog output from the DAC that I can connect to a receiver without a DAC but I donīt think a test like that is of any value or what do you think?

Regarding the driver I have checked and I have the latest already. Audionet is not updating them so frequently.

[craigmcg]

Understood that most receivers don't have non-HDMI DACs so since you said that you don't hear the noise when the CD player is the source, is there someone you know who has a USB DAC that you could borrow?

If so, I suggest that you uninstall the Audionet USB driver temporarily, install the USB driver for the borrowed USB DAC (if one is required). Once you do this connect the pc USB cable to the loaner USB DAC input then connect the DAC's output to the CD analog input of the Audionet (so the loaner is replacing the DAC part of the Audionet receiver). If this works well without the noise, you can either try to get the Audionet repaired or buy a good USB DAC for your future use.

[Captor]

Understood that most receivers don't have non-HDMI DACs so since you said that you don't hear the noise when the CD player is the source, is there someone you know who has a USB DAC that you could borrow?

If so, I suggest that you uninstall the Audionet USB driver temporarily, install the USB driver for the borrowed USB DAC (if one is required). Once you do this connect the pc USB cable to the loaner USB DAC input then connect the DAC's output to the CD analog input of the Audionet (so the loaner is replacing the DAC part of the Audionet receiver). If this works well without the noise, you can either try to get the Audionet repaired or buy a good USB DAC for your future use.

Thank you very much. Yes I can do that. I will listen around if someone has an USB DAC for me to loan for a day. I let you know but that might take some days.