INTERACT FORUM

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: I've lost all the extra information in my database  (Read 657 times)

DaremoS

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Rock is not just music... is a way of living
I've lost all the extra information in my database
« on: March 23, 2025, 02:47:22 pm »

I will have to restore from a previous date
I don' know why this happens.
Logged

tzr916

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1422
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2025, 03:44:16 pm »

First backup what you have... File > Library > Backup Library > choose a location, filename.

Then try to restore from a previous backup... File > Library > Restore Library > choose a PREVIOUS file to restore from.
Logged
JRiverMC v34 •Windows 10 Pro 64bit •Defender Exclusions •ṈŘ 3rd party AV
•ASUS TUF gaming WiFi z590 •Thermaltake Toughpower GX2 600W
•i7-11700k @ 3.6GHz~5GHz •32GB PC4-25600 DDR4
•OS on Crucial P5 Plus M.2 PCIe Gen4 •Tv Recordings on SATA 6TB WD Red Pro
•4 OTA & 6 CableCard SiliconDust Tuners
•nVidia RTX2060 •XBR65Z9D •AVRX3700H •Fluance 7.2.2 [FH]
•SMP1000DSPѫRSS315HE-22■DIYSG Cube-12
•eD LT.500ѫeD 13ov.2■eD A3-300

DaremoS

  • World Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • Rock is not just music... is a way of living
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2025, 04:26:57 pm »

Thanks  lot for your help.
I've suffered this sometimes in this eighteen years using this incredible and UNIQUE software.
What I'm wanting to know the CAUSE why this occurs.
Regards
Logged

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 73040
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2025, 04:38:46 pm »

Disk write failures of some kind.

Bad hardware, NAS, antivirus and so on.
Logged

zybex

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2892
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2025, 05:20:19 pm »

Logged

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 73040
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2025, 05:50:14 pm »

Are you using a NAS?  If so, is the firmware up to date?

Logged

mwillems

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5281
  • "Linux Merit Badge" Recipient
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2025, 01:06:45 pm »

So one moderately common fact pattern I've seen on the forums over the years that could cause this kind of data loss: 

1) Someone has Auto-Import enabled to run in the background and has enabled the option to automatically remove missing files.
2) Their files are stored on a network attached storage, removable drive, or some other storage medium that might not always be around.
3) Auto-import runs at a time when the storage device is momentarily inaccessible or otherwise not present and then removes all files.
4) The storage device reappears and auto-import reimports everything and pulls in all the metadata stored in the File tags, but cannot replicate any extra metadata that only lived in the JRiver database (such as time imported, etc.).  So to the user the files look mostly correct, but some amount of "extra" metadata is now missing.

To be clear this isn't a bug, the software is doing what it's been told to do, but it often catches users by surprise.  If this could be your case, try setting autoimport not to automatically remove missing files and see if that prevents it from happening again.  Please note that there is an option to remove missing files but "protect files on missing drives" and it mostly works just fine, but occasionally people report it not engaging, so make sure to turn "automatically remove missing files" all the way to "off" or "no" in order to test.
Logged

JimH

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 73040
  • Where did I put my teeth?
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2025, 02:57:33 pm »

mwillems, thanks for offering details.  Matt and I started talking about what you've said.  I thought it would help to make it more public. 

We're interested in your thoughts on how this could be handled better.

I asked Matt this:

What happens, for example, if an F: drive is removed, but when it's replaced, it becomes G: ?

Or what happens, if we check for a drive, but it isn't yet ready because it hasn't spun up.  Large disk arrays, for example.
Logged

Matt

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 42735
  • Shoes gone again!
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2025, 03:03:00 pm »

Note that you need to pick the mode that leaves drives that go missing when fixing broken links. It looks like that's the default mode.
Logged
Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Awesome Donkey

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 8180
  • The color of Spring!
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2025, 03:30:08 pm »

Only thing I can think of is kind of the portable library approach, where in this case not have the drive letter hard coded and have it where it can be set as a global variable or something. So if it's mounted at F: then it changes to G:, MC could detect the drive set as the variable (F:) isn't mounted/available and could prompt the user to find or input the new drive variable (G:).

How it works right now, let's say I have Hotel California by the Eagles in my library and it's at F:\Music\Eagles\Hotel California\01-Hotel California.flac and that's the hard coded path for it in MC. This way it could omit the F: part so it's \Music\Eagles\Hotel California\01-Hotel California.flac and you can set the global drive letter as a variable elsewhere, so it's not hard coded and you don't need to run the RM&C tool to change the path for a drive letter change.

Of course, this is made more complicated by having files on multiple drives, along with Linux and Mac and how those paths are, so there are quirks to this approach.
Logged
I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit (AMD 7900X CPU/AMD 7800 XT GPU/64GB RAM/2TB M.2 NVMe SSD)
macOS Sequoia 15.3.2 (M4 Mac Mini 16GB RAM/256GB SSD)
Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Mac + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

mwillems

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5281
  • "Linux Merit Badge" Recipient
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2025, 03:36:21 pm »

So the "Protect missing drives" logic is not 100% at present and I can offer an "easy to replicate" failure mode.

1. On Linux (and probably on Mac) when you mount a drive instead of using a drive letter, you mount it to a directory in the filesystem (for this example, let's say I mount my samba share from my NAS at /mnt/media)
2. Once the remote drive is mounted at /mnt/media, if I point auto-import to the root of the mounted drive (/mnt/media/), JRiver will dutifully import everything.
3. However, if the remote drive becomes unmounted or otherwise can't be mounted, the directory I used as the mountpoint (/mnt/media) still exists as an empty directory in the filesystem!
4. If I do this on purpose (leave the drive unmounted and run auto-import), auto-import dumps the entire library even with "protect missing drives" enabled.

To be clear, I'm not sure how you would reliably and programmatically tell the difference between an actually empty directory and a mount point that isn't mounted.  I'm not sure this is a JRiver issue per se, it's just the nature of how *nix filesystems work.

The workaround from the user side is to always point auto-import to a subdirectory on the mounted drive rather than the drive root (/mnt/media/Audio, etc.).  If you do that the missing drive detection works correctly because when the drive goes away, while /mnt/media is still there as an empty directory /mnt/media/Audio is gone (and won't stat), so JRiver MC correctly detects that the drive is missing.

I'm not sure how this all plays out on Windows as I no longer maintain any Windows machines with JRiver, but I've seen a few similar reports trickle in from Windows users over the last few years so some version of this category of problem is still happening occasionally.  Network drives behave in really unpredictable ways sometimes!

----

In terms of addressing the broader issue one way to help this is to change defaults (i.e. default fix missing links to "no"); another would be to find a way to call it to the user's attention when auto-import is about to dump a large number of files (kind of like the "are you sure" dialog that pops up for user initiated mass file deletions). 

Coming at the problem a different way, another potential work around would be maintaining a relatively terse auto-import log that gets rotated on a schedule (like automatic library backups).  One major problem I've had with troubleshooting these kinds of issues is that there's (I think?) no import logs kept unless you turn on debug logging for everything which is not suitable as a permanent solution (the log files fill up a lot of space quickly and get reset but not rotated so they're not very helpful in troubleshooting something that happened a day or two ago).   Another problem with logging only when enabled is that users often don't know they have a problem because the issue only happens at odd intervals, and they find out about when it's already happened and then it's too late to log it!

What I'm proposing is something like automatic logging of auto-import activity.  Something akin to the summary dialog that a user initiated import shows when it finishes, but logged on every auto-import to a log file that gets rotated on a schedule, so you can see, say, the last week's or month's auto-import activity easily.  I've found that when something goofy happened with an auto-import (in the absence of logging), the easiest way to figure out what happened is often to roll back to a prior library backup and then manually run an import so I can see the post import summary to find out what happened. I'd much rather just be able to look at a log (or ask a user experiencing this problem to post a small log)!
Logged

Matt

  • Administrator
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 42735
  • Shoes gone again!
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2025, 07:46:53 pm »

I can reproduce a problem if I mount a folder from a USB drive then unplug the drive.
Logged
Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Manfred

  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 1046
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2025, 05:35:01 am »

Today this happend to me the 3rd time:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,140619.msg975307.html#msg975307

I have a Win11 based Workstation(8TB SSD, 12 TB HDD) and a Win 10 based Files Server (28 TB HDD DATA)
This time I could identify the root cause:
1. Intel I225-V Adpater stopped working on my Workstation
2. I put the power plug of my workstation
3. 10 minutes wait
4. Put the power plug back and start the workstation
5. Network was back
6. MC startet to "reimport the files on the File Server (mounted drives)" (MC does not!!! reimport or delete Meta Data for files on the Workstation!!!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution:
A) restore old lib and everything is back

Question:
Should I disable "Ignore files previously removed from the library" in the Media Import Dialog?
Logged
WS (AMD Ryzen 7 5700G, 32 GB DDR4-3200, 8=2x2+4 TB SDD, LG 34UC98-W)-USB|ADI-2 DAC FS|Canton AM5 - File Server (i3-3.9 GHz, 16GB ECC DDR4-2400, 46 TB disk space) - Media Renderer (i3-3.8 GHz, 8GB DDR4-2133, GTX 960)-USB|Devialet D220 Pro|Audeze LCD 2|B&W 804S|LG 4K OLED )

zybex

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 2892
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2025, 06:31:31 am »

You should set the "Fix Broken Links" option in your Auto-Import settings to "No" or "Yes (protect files on missing drives)" as mwillems said.
Logged

mwillems

  • MC Beta Team
  • Citizen of the Universe
  • *****
  • Posts: 5281
  • "Linux Merit Badge" Recipient
Re: I've lost all the extra information in my database
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2025, 08:32:59 am »

You should set the "Fix Broken Links" option in your Auto-Import settings to "No" or "Yes (protect files on missing drives)" as mwillems said.

Having mulled some more, I really think a default "No" setting for "fix broken links" would be a safer default for auto-import.  Anecdotally, I almost never see broken links unless something has gone wrong with my hardware or network and those are precisely the times I don't want MC to remove broken links!  If people want to remove broken links, they could still set the setting to automatically do it deliberately, or they could just run a manual import with it enabled once in a while to "clean up" (and where they could see exactly what's being fixed). 

The fail state for leaving fix broken links "on" by default is people losing metadata and not knowing why.  There are backups, of course, but if you don't notice right away restoring could be a big pain.  The fail state for leaving fix broken links "off" by default is that people need to manually click something to remove broken links once in a while.

Just my 2 cents.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up