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[bob]

We are strongly considering the following changes for linux MC34

1) Building on Debian Bookworm so MC will no longer work on older versions of Debian or the derivatives like older versions of Ubuntu that don't have new enough libc, etc. as well as older (community supported) versions of other linux OS's.

2) Eliminating the i386 port. Probably keeping the armhf 32 bit port for now.

Feedback on these changes would be appreciated.

[Awesome Donkey]

1) If you're going this route, you might specifically mention the minimum version of Ubuntu that it'll run on (maybe Linux Mint too since that seems to be popular).

2) This would be fine with me. armhf is only needed for Raspberry Pis, at least until they start fully pushing the 64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS (which anyone with a Pi 4 or Pi 5 should be using anyways). Eliminating armhf for MC35 would likely be the goal then?

[JimH]

I had to look this up.  i386 port is equivalent to 32-bit.

[bob]

1) If you're going this route, you might specifically mention the minimum version of Ubuntu that it'll run on (maybe Linux Mint too since that seems to be popular).

Yes, I was planning on doing that. We'd need to know that at any rate for the Chromium plugin.

2) This would be fine with me. armhf is only needed for Raspberry Pis, at least until they start fully pushing the 64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS (which anyone with a Pi 4 or Pi 5 should be using anyways). Eliminating armhf for MC35 would likely be the goal then?

The easiest way to figure out this one is when the Chromium plugin is no longer available for armhf like it's no longer available for i386.

[Awesome Donkey]

Yes, I was planning on doing that. We'd need to know that at any rate for the Chromium plugin.

My guess would be Ubuntu 24.04 LTS could be the minimum, as Bookworm was released a year after 22.04 LTS was (and nobody should be using Ubuntu 23.10 at this point, IMO).

Linux Mint becomes a bit... complicated. If Ubuntu 24.04 LTS is the minimum Ubuntu version, then Linux Mint 22 would be the minimum version of Mint (as it's based on 24.04).

The easiest way to figure out this one is when the Chromium plugin is no longer available for armhf like it's no longer available for i386.

Makes sense. Anyone either about to use a Raspberry Pi or doing a reinstall of their OS for the Raspberry Pi should be using the 64-bit version of Raspberry Pi OS to prepare for the inevitable future.

[Hendrik]

My guess would be Ubuntu 24.04 LTS could be the minimum, as Bookworm was released a year after 22.04 LTS was (and nobody should be using Ubuntu 23.10 at this point, IMO).

Linux Mint becomes a bit... complicated. If Ubuntu 24.04 LTS is the minimum Ubuntu version, then Linux Mint 22 would be the minimum version of Mint (as it's based on 24.04).

As long as there is a newer release version available, I don't think we need to worry about supporting an older one - even more so if the newer one is LTS too.

[bob]

Playing with this a bit, here is a MC33 compiled on 22.04. It uses webkitgtk2-4.1-0. Can you all check this for compatibility on different operating systems?
It won't run on bullseye for sure.
https://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/MediaCenter-33.0.71-2-amd64.deb

[mwillems]

Playing with this a bit, here is a MC33 compiled on 22.04. It uses webkitgtk2-4.1-0. Can you all check this for compatibility on different operating systems?
It won't run on bullseye for sure.
https://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/MediaCenter-33.0.71-2-amd64.deb

So it's mostly working on an up to date Arch Linux, but there are some problems with some streaming options. 

I tested audio and video playback as well as Spotlight and those all worked, and some options under the "Streaming" library root item work correctly, but, when I click on the "Streaming" library tree root itself, I briefly see the expected tiles but then see this error:

Code: [Select]

function requestMCWS(o,t){var e=window.location.hostname+":52199/MCWS/v1/"+o+encodeURIComponent(t),n=new XMLHttpRequest;n.open("GET",e),n.overrideMimeType("application/xml"),n.responseType="document",n.onload=function(){if(n.status<200||n.status>300)return void console.log({status:n.status})},n.onerror=function(){console.log({status:n.status})},n.send()
When I try to open youtube under streaming, I see "The web browser engine is not working properly"

That said, I don't use streaming much, so I just checked and I also see those or similar errors on the existing 33.0.71 build on Arch. 

[bob]

So it's mostly working on an up to date Arch Linux, but there are some problems with some streaming options. 

I tested audio and video playback as well as Spotlight and those all worked, but, when I click on the "Streaming" library tree root, I briefly see the expected tiles but then see this error:

Code: [Select]

function requestMCWS(o,t){var e=window.location.hostname+":52199/MCWS/v1/"+o+encodeURIComponent(t),n=new XMLHttpRequest;n.open("GET",e),n.overrideMimeType("application/xml"),n.responseType="document",n.onload=function(){if(n.status<200||n.status>300)return void console.log({status:n.status})},n.onerror=function(){console.log({status:n.status})},n.send()
When I try to open youtube under streaming, I see "The web browser engine is not working properly"

That said, I don't use streaming much, so I just checked and I also see those or similar errors on the existing 33.0.71 build on Arch.  So it's possible some of the streaming functions are just broken on Arch in general?

Possibly the ssl certificate?

[mwillems]

Possibly the ssl certificate?

So I just tested the regular public build (33.0.71) on Debian Bookworm, which should have the correct ssl certs, and loading any item under the streaming root item just freezes the interface indefinitely and never loads.  Is it possible that some of the streaming functions are just broken on Linux in general right now?  The podcast functionality at least used to work, but I just see a freeze whenever I load it now.

[bob]

So I just tested the regular public build (33.0.71) on Debian Bookworm, which should have the correct ssl certs, and loading any item under the streaming root item just freezes the interface indefinitely and never loads.  Is it possible that some of the streaming functions are just broken on Linux in general right now?  The podcast functionality at least used to work, but I just see a freeze whenever I load it now.

Not sure. I can run Radio Paradise from the streaming menu fine.

[bob]

Not sure. I can run Radio Paradise from the streaming menu fine.

On my Mac though. On linux I get that same whacky javascript thing you do even with the current versions of MC.

[Awesome Donkey]

Playing with this a bit, here is a MC33 compiled on 22.04. It uses webkitgtk2-4.1-0. Can you all check this for compatibility on different operating systems?
It won't run on bullseye for sure.
https://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/MediaCenter-33.0.71-2-amd64.deb

Works fine on Ubuntu 24.10.

I'll test my VMs here in a bit.

[bob]

Works fine on Ubuntu 24.10.

I'll test my VMs here in a bit.

Streaming??

[Awesome Donkey]

Radio Paradise seems to be working fine in Ubuntu 24.10 too. I do see some stuff in the terminal it failing to decode fonts during playback, but it's playing back so it's probably not relevant.

Anything specific to test?

[mwillems]

So the issue with the browser on my Debian server freezing probably isn't related to the items in this thread. My server instance is running in a VM on Debian Bookworm with a virtual video card that doesn't support hardware acceleration.  The web browser functions used to work perfectly (with the same VM configuration), but the chromium plugin must've changed in a way that no longer works with the virtual video card or requires hardware accel.  On the latest public builds whenever I try to navigate to any web page I get a freeze that requires manually terminating MC.  The Web logs show: 

Code: [Select]

0407/135045.231513:ERROR:bus.cc(407)] Failed to connect to the bus: Could not parse server address: Unknown address type (examples of valid types are "tcp" and on UNIX "unix")
[0407/135045.231542:ERROR:bus.cc(407)] Failed to connect to the bus: Could not parse server address: Unknown address type (examples of valid types are "tcp" and on UNIX "unix")
[0407/135045.246441:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.246460:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 1 time(s)
[0407/135045.269364:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.269387:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 2 time(s)
[0407/135045.272072:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.272091:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 3 time(s)
[0407/135045.273684:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.273703:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 4 time(s)
[0407/135045.274228:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.274244:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 5 time(s)
[0407/135045.275034:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.275048:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 6 time(s)
[0407/135045.275054:FATAL:gpu_data_manager_impl_private.cc(448)] GPU process isn't usable. Goodbye.

So that's pretty clearly a different issue than the webkit dependencies, so sorry for the static on that.  If I can't work that out, I'll open a separate thread for that later.

[bob]

So the issue with the browser on my Debian server freezing probably isn't related to the items in this thread. My server instance is running in a VM on Debian Bookworm with a virtual video card, and the web browser functions used to work perfectly (with the same VM configuration), but the chromium plugin must've changed in a way that no longer works with the virtual video card.  On the latest public builds whenever I try to navigate to any web page I get a freeze that requires manually terminating MC.  The web logs show: 

Code: [Select]

0407/135045.231513:ERROR:bus.cc(407)] Failed to connect to the bus: Could not parse server address: Unknown address type (examples of valid types are "tcp" and on UNIX "unix")
[0407/135045.231542:ERROR:bus.cc(407)] Failed to connect to the bus: Could not parse server address: Unknown address type (examples of valid types are "tcp" and on UNIX "unix")
[0407/135045.246441:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.246460:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 1 time(s)
[0407/135045.269364:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.269387:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 2 time(s)
[0407/135045.272072:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.272091:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 3 time(s)
[0407/135045.273684:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.273703:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 4 time(s)
[0407/135045.274228:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.274244:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 5 time(s)
[0407/135045.275034:ERROR:gpu_process_host.cc(984)] GPU process launch failed: error_code=1002
[0407/135045.275048:WARNING:gpu_process_host.cc(1360)] The GPU process has crashed 6 time(s)
[0407/135045.275054:FATAL:gpu_data_manager_impl_private.cc(448)] GPU process isn't usable. Goodbye.

So that's pretty clearly a different issue than the webkit dependencies, so sorry for the static on that.  If I can't work that out, I'll open a separate thread for that later.

Since this one uses the newer webkit you could try that and see if it works. Set in options.

[mwillems]

Since this one uses the newer webkit you could try that and see if it works. Set in options.

Oh good catch, I forgot that to actually turn off chromium (d'oh)! Switching back to webkit on the Debian Bookworm server actually fixed all my issues with the current public builds (all the streaming functions work correctly).  Thanks for the reminder!

[bob]

Oh good catch, I forgot that to actually turn off chromium (d'oh)! Switching back to webkit on the Debian Bookworm server actually fixed all my issues with the current public builds (all the streaming functions work correctly).  Thanks for the reminder!

I see an issue with the WRT a couple of the libs that 22.04 actually has newer than bookworm. I'm trying to find out if there are compatibility issues with them. Did you get install dependencies issues on bookworm?

[atreides]

MC 34 should be on Bookworm and not something older.  If someone wants to use older then keep using an old MC version.

+1 for this.

[mwillems]

I see an issue with the WRT a couple of the libs that 22.04 actually has newer than bookworm. I'm trying to find out if there are compatibility issues with them. Did you get install dependencies issues on bookworm?

I do see errors with the new test build on Bookworm: 

Code: [Select]

dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of mediacenter33:
 mediacenter33 depends on libxdmcp6 (>= 1:1.1.3); however:
  Version of libxdmcp6:amd64 on system is 1:1.1.2-3.
 mediacenter33 depends on libnss3 (>= 2:3.98); however:
  Version of libnss3:amd64 on system is 2:3.87.1-1+deb12u1.
 mediacenter33 depends on libgomp1 (>= 12.3.0); however:
  Version of libgomp1:amd64 on system is 12.2.0-14.
 mediacenter33 depends on libgbm1 (>= 23.2.1); however:
  Version of libgbm1:amd64 on system is 22.3.6-1+deb12u1.
 mediacenter33 depends on libwebkit2gtk-4.1-0; however:
  Package libwebkit2gtk-4.1-0 is not installed.




[Hendrik]

Sounds like bookworm is the better option then, if Ubuntu updated their libraries more aggressively afterall.
A bookworm version may as well still work on Ubuntu 22.04 then with any luck.

[bob]

Sounds like bookworm is the better option then, if Ubuntu updated their libraries more aggressively afterall.
A bookworm version may as well still work on Ubuntu 22.04 then with any luck.

I'm testing that now with relaxed library specification and it seems to work.

[newsposter]

Is it worth considering Rocky Linux?  They seem to be edging forward as the distro of choice for creative work.

[Awesome Donkey]

I've never even heard of it, looks like a RHEL spin? It's probably on the outer fringe versus more popular choices like Debian and Ubuntu.

[mwillems]

I've never even heard of it, looks like a RHEL spin? It's probably on the outer fringe versus more popular choices like Debian and Ubuntu.

Rocky Linux is sort of the spiritual successor to CentOS after Red Hat effectively killed off the old CentOS model and replaced it with "CentOS Stream"

I agree that it's probably not going to be as well supported as Debian or Ubuntu. 

FWIW, after years of running on both Debian and on Arch, I'm very rarely had any trouble on Arch that I didn't also have on Debian.

[BryanC]

I work in RHEL-land and come across way more AlmaLinux deployments than Rocky.

[bob]

Please try this one:
https://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/MediaCenter-33.0.71-3-amd64.deb
Compiled on bookworm with relaxed library requirements.
Runs as far back as ubuntu 22.04 for me.
Maybe someone else can try with other non-debian distros?

[bob]

WRT the issues with the chromium plugin, it seem they are related to gpu acceleration and compositing. Unfortunately it doesn't appear possible to disable it when chromium is loaded as a plugin. Tried several methods but none work.
It absolutely doesn't work on my Bookworm Radeon 580 system with KDE/Plasma/Wayland but it does with most other combinations.
The Webkit browser choice does work but the problem is getting to it since chromium is the default (and is better for most of the uses in MC) but crashes on start.
I'm thinking of adding a command line override to either use webkit and set it in the options or just to get it up on webkit so the options can be changed.

[bob]

WRT the issues with the chromium plugin, it seem they are related to gpu acceleration and compositing. Unfortunately it doesn't appear possible to disable it when chromium is loaded as a plugin. Tried several methods but none work.
It absolutely doesn't work on my Bookworm Radeon 580 system with KDE/Plasma/Wayland but it does with most other combinations.
The Webkit browser choice does work but the problem is getting to it since chromium is the default (and is better for most of the uses in MC) but crashes on start.
I'm thinking of adding a command line override to either use webkit and set it in the options or just to get it up on webkit so the options can be changed.

Try https://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/MediaCenter-33.0.72-amd64.deb
When starting MC this way:
mediacenter33 /BuiltInBrowser
MC will default to the webkit browser and set that in options. It still has to download chromium to satisfy JRWeb dependencies if it hasn't already but it will use the internal browser.

[Awesome Donkey]

Maybe someone else can try with other non-debian distros?

On it with my VMs. Specific things to test? I'll check Radio Paradise in all of them too.

[bob]

On it with my VMs. Specific things to test? I'll check Radio Paradise in all of them too.

I think any issues would be mostly related to the browser and internet access.

[mwillems]

I recommend testing a few different streaming nodes as some worked and some didn't with the previous build.  Also spotlight is probably worth testing.

[Awesome Donkey]

Doesn't seem to work with Arch Linux, both /BuiltInBrowser and normally. /BuiltInBrowser results in nothing loading, and normal results in it saying Loading... Not sure if it's related to the cert thing or not (pretty sure I've done the command fix for it, can't recall) as nothing appears in the terminal while running it that way.

On to the next distro.

[bob]

Doesn't seem to work with Arch Linux, both /BuiltInBrowser and normally. /BuiltInBrowser results in nothing loading, and normal results in it saying Loading... Not sure if it's related to the cert thing or not (pretty sure I've done the command fix for it, can't recall) as nothing appears in the terminal while running it that way.

On to the next distro.

It runs but no browser or it crashes??
The cert is in /usr/lib/jriver/Media Center 33/ca-certificates.crt it's a symlink to the /etc/ssl one if it exists. If it doesn't you can change the symlink to the local copy in that dir.
cd "/usr/lib/jriver/Media Center 33"
rm ca-certificates.crt
ln -s local-ca-certificates.crt ca-certificates.crt

[Awesome Donkey]

It runs but no browser, same happens in OpenSUSE too. Both with the GTK WebKit browser. I'll figure that part out later (if there's a missing dependency or something), but I'm pretty sure Chromium will work.

I'll do Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and Linux Mint now.

EDIT: Chromium does indeed work for both Arch Linux and OpenSUSE, e.g. Radio Paradise page opens and plays fine. On to the others distros.

[Awesome Donkey]

Is there a WebKit dependency or something needed? Because on Debian 12 after using mediacenter33 /BuiltInBrowser and go to a page on the Streaming section it just says Loading... and sticks there. If I switch to Chromium it loads fine.

[bob]

It runs but no browser, same happens in OpenSUSE too. Both with the GTK WebKit browser. I'll figure that part out later (if there's a missing dependency or something), but I'm pretty sure Chromium will work.

I'll do Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and Linux Mint now.

EDIT: Chromium does indeed work for both Arch Linux and OpenSUSE, e.g. Radio Paradise page opens and plays fine. On to the others distros.

Interesing. If libwebkit2gtk is at 4.1.x it should load. If not it should give a stream of complaints on the command line

[bob]

Is there a WebKit dependency or something needed? Because on Debian 12 after using mediacenter33 /BuiltInBrowser and go to a page on the Streaming section it just says Loading... and sticks there. If I switch to Chromium it loads fine.

That works fine for me debian 12 and the switch brings up webkit

[Awesome Donkey]

Tried on my main Ubuntu install (non-VM) and GTK WebKit doesn't work.

Code: [Select]

mediacenter33 /BuiltInBrowser
Gdk-Message: 12:48:03.686: Window 0x5ed124da7cd0 is a temporary window without parent, application will not be able to position it on screen.

(JRWeb:16060): Gdk-CRITICAL **: 12:48:03.692: gdk_x11_window_get_xid: assertion 'GDK_IS_X11_WINDOW (window)' failed
Killed

[bob]

Tried on my main Ubuntu install (non-VM) and it doesn't work.

Code: [Select]

mediacenter33 /BuiltInBrowser
Gdk-Message: 12:48:03.686: Window 0x5ed124da7cd0 is a temporary window without parent, application will not be able to position it on screen.

(JRWeb:16060): Gdk-CRITICAL **: 12:48:03.692: gdk_x11_window_get_xid: assertion 'GDK_IS_X11_WINDOW (window)' failed
Killed

Wayland?

[Awesome Donkey]

Yep, Wayland on GNOME.

The GTK WebKit getting stuck on Loading... when opening a web page is in VMs (Arch Linux, Debian and OpenSUSE) using X11.

[bob]

Yep, Wayland on GNOME.

Xorg will work.

[Awesome Donkey]

That's going to become a problem soon, distros are beginning to completely drop/remove Xorg and going Wayland only. Fedora 42 and the GNOME it ships (which should be out this month) will fully remove Xorg and the X11 session and it can't be reinstalled. Eventually I expect Ubuntu to follow suit, maybe 25.10 to test it out before 26.04 LTS next year. Of course, XWayland is a thing and that allows a lot of apps to function with Wayland, thankfully.

I personally have to use Wayland with GNOME because of the variable refresh rate support and the upcoming triple buffering in GNOME 48. The X11 session is okay, though it has issues with screen tearing and whatnot and it won't get the triple buffering support. The Chromium engine seems to be working fine thus far at least!

[Eisenhart]

GNOME is the default environment for Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora.  I understand you can choose another one for Debian, but Gnome is checked by default.

[bob]

That's going to become a problem soon, distros are beginning to completely drop/remove Xorg and going Wayland only. Fedora 42 and the GNOME it ships (which should be out this month) will fully remove Xorg and the X11 session and it can't be reinstalled. Eventually I expect Ubuntu to follow suit, maybe 25.10 to test it out before 26.04 LTS next year. Of course, XWayland is a thing and that allows a lot of apps to function with Wayland, thankfully.

I personally have to use Wayland with GNOME because of the variable refresh rate support and the upcoming triple buffering in GNOME 48. The X11 session is okay, though it has issues with screen tearing and whatnot and it won't get the triple buffering support. The Chromium engine seems to be working fine thus far at least!

The issue with Wayland and the GtkWebkit may be resolvable, just haven't had time to check into it yet.
The Chromium engine really should work on any properly working compositing system.
As far as Wayland goes for the rest, MC works mostly fine for me with XWayland, there are a couple of quirks that I hope they eventually figure out but he browser issue was the only crash I knew of.

[Awesome Donkey]

GNOME is the default environment for Debian, Ubuntu, and Fedora.  I understand you can choose another one for Debian, but Gnome is checked by default.

Debian is probably years away from dropping Xorg support, so there is still time (and as I said XWayland is a thing which is why MC runs on Wayland at all) in that regard. It's just something to prepare for because popular distros like Ubuntu will start dropping Xorg as well like Fedora is about to. So there won't be a simple fallback to X11 session sort of deal in the future.

But, again, XWayland is thankfully a thing so it works, more-or-less. It might need to use Chromium on Wayland sessions... well, maybe not KDE Plasma?

The Chromium engine really should work on any properly working compositing system.

Chromium seems to work very well thus far in my testing on multiple distros (Arch Linux, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Debian, etc.). Though I don't have a KDE Plasma system running Wayland to test that one, oooooof. You might try Kubuntu 25.04 when it's out just in case it was a KDE issue they fixed. I do have a 580 too somewhere from my previous system, maybe I should rebuild it and use it as a test system for such things? Hmmm, maybe I should if I can find room for it.

[lepa]

Is HDR possible without proper Wayland support?

[Awesome Donkey]

My guess it's not because both KDE Plasma 6 and GNOME 48 require Wayland for HDR. And I don't think any of them have any interest trying to backport it to Xorg Server.

Also considering Xorg development is basically dead (other than XWayland which is where the majority of work on Xorg is focused) it probably is going to require Wayland.

[Awesome Donkey]

Bob, is there a switch to switch to the Chromiun engine like the built-in? Because when testing on Ubuntu (Wayland) MC wouldn't start correctly for me to switch the browser engine back to Chromiun and I ended up having to restore User Settings.ini to fix it. Might be handy for those situations if one doesn't already exist.