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Author Topic: IPOD HELP II  (Read 19354 times)

SteveG

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IPOD HELP II
« on: January 11, 2003, 12:32:00 pm »

Hello Everyone.

Anyone who has an iPod, please be sure to get MC 9.0.95 and Plug-in v 3.0.41 and then let me know any problems.

Thanks,

Steve

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fex

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2003, 12:54:25 pm »

Installed the 3.0.41 a few times, but in the plug-in manager appears still 3.0.40. Wrong version-number?
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2003, 02:04:40 pm »

Yeah Steve, ditto that.  The plugin that's on the site now is .40.

Adam
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benmaxwell

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2003, 07:03:32 pm »

ditto...

but since the eagles won tonight, don't expect a fix until monday (right steve?!!)
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lidocaineus

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2003, 01:43:59 am »

I'm also eagerly awaiting the .41 to fix the delete songs bug.  That'll be nice (as the entire plugin is shaping up nicely).

Can anyone tell me what their avg transfer speed for songs are?  Obviously I refer to songs not yet there and are being uploaded.  I get around 3.85-4.5 MB/sec, but I'm transferring files from a very large samba repository on the Linux server down the hall in the laundry room.  My max transfer rate would be under 12 MB/sec because of the 100mbps LAN bottleneck (much less really, because of overhead).

As firewire has a maximum theoretical of around 50 MB/sec, I'm wondering what other people are getting with local file uploads to their iPods.
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newhere

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2003, 05:22:11 am »

I need some help.
I just erased all my smart- and play-lists.  :'(
The only place they still exist on is my iPod is there a way to get them back? (Preferably with the smartlist rules?). Will restore Database help me?
Any help is appriciated.

Payam
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moriarty

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2003, 06:04:04 am »

Is there a way to get the old plugin (8 version?).
(edit:  never mind - got 9.095 to work, now just can't get the plugin to load...)


I'm having troubles w/ 9.095 and ME (see Unicode failure thread) and I'd like to go back to the previous version for now if possible.

Thanks.
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2003, 06:42:31 am »

Quote
I'm also eagerly awaiting the .41 to fix the delete songs bug.  That'll be nice (as the entire plugin is shaping up nicely).

Can anyone tell me what their avg transfer speed for songs are?  Obviously I refer to songs not yet there and are being uploaded.  I get around 3.85-4.5 MB/sec, but I'm transferring files from a very large samba repository on the Linux server down the hall in the laundry room.  My max transfer rate would be under 12 MB/sec because of the 100mbps LAN bottleneck (much less really, because of overhead).

As firewire has a maximum theoretical of around 50 MB/sec, I'm wondering what other people are getting with local file uploads to their iPods.


I usually get between 4-6MB per sec on mine.  As a sync gets going it ususually ends up at 6MB/sec.

That's faster than any other program I've used. Even ephPod.  'Course it's all in what's being reported to me.  Could be that MC9 reports MB/sec differently that does EphPod.

Adam
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fex

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2003, 06:50:32 am »

Quote

...Can anyone tell me what their avg transfer speed for songs are?  Obviously I refer to songs not yet there and are being uploaded...


Uploading today 3'500 tracks within one playlist on a clean iPod I got between 7.90 and 8.25 MB/s.

Fex
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willrmc

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2003, 08:47:31 am »

last night when i was transfering, i was getting 7-9 mb/sec.
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IDSmoker

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2003, 10:05:59 am »

Problem with Uploading Playlists...

After I formatted my 20gb WiPod within MC9, I selected the "Syncronize Files" command off of the right-click menu.  I selected a bunch of smartlists, including my "ALL MP3" that limits the size to 18gb (all other lists build off of this one).

When the sync process gets to the last file (can't tell if it is before or after the last file is transferred), I get the following error message:

"File upload error transferring H:\iPod_Control\Music\F17\12091.mp3"

After unmounting the iPod, everything looks OK, except that the only playlist on the iPod is the "ALL MP3" list.

I have done several different syncs (with different options enabled) with identical results (although the directory sometimes changes in the error message, the filename is always the same).

Any suggestions for how I can get the play/smart lists to transfer?

System Info:[/i]
Media Jukebox PLUS 9.0.95 -- E:\Tools\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 1992 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 523 MB, Free - 245 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920)
Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1145 (xpsp2.021108-1929) / wnaspi32.dll: Internal ASPI Layer

Ripping /   Drive I:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Drive Y:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: No /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: No /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive I: HP       DVD Writer 200j    Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:12  MaxSpeed:12  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
 Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2003, 01:04:09 pm »

I also had a problem that said "Error uploading I:\iPod_control\music\F00\song.mp3" -- was synching with playlists and smartlists, but not synching with an "all music" smartlist.

Perhaps one of the smartlists was somehow refreshed midway through the synch, and it was updated with a song that had been transferred to the iPod?  If so, would there be a way to "lock" the contents of all smartlists at the beginning of a synch so that one of them isn't re-updated in the middle of the process?  Either that, or make songs transferred to the iPod not become an official part of the library?
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mclaugh

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2003, 04:19:19 am »

I tried to sync my smartlists to my Ipod again last night, and it gave me an error msg at the end- it said that there was an error at g:\Ipod Control\music\F00\2037.mp3 or something.
I did reformat twice w/ MJ, so I don't see why I would have an artifact mp3 like that (2037.mp3 is the nomenclature for ephpod songs when moved to the Ipod).  There's a chance it might be on my hard drive, I'll have to look tonight.

SteveG- you said earlier that the 41 plugin fixes the "delete files" problem.  Would it be ok if we surveyed the rest of the group to find out who is having problems making their smartlists show up on their Ipod?  At this point, it looks like KurtYoung, IDsmoker, and I are all having the same problem near the end of our syncs, and it's not then allowing the ItunesDB to be correctly written.
You asked me to email you my ItunesDB the other day- where is it located?  I'll email it to you tonight when I get home from work.
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cct1

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2003, 06:25:08 am »

Well, I finally got 95 loaded up  (I'm running Windows ME), but I have two problems, one of which is critical:

    I download the ipod plugin--says it was installed successfully, however it is nowhere to be found, either on the left hand tree or the handheld plugin page.  It's simply not installing, and it doesn't matter wether the ipod is plugged in or not.  (I run Windows NT at work, and the ipod plugin installed with no problems there;  however, I cannot use my ipod at my office as my office computer doesn't have a firewire).

This is killing me.  I actually tried to go back to 88 because of this, but I couldn't get 88 to properly reinstall  (it tried to destroy my desktop,among other things) , so it looks like I'm stuck in 95.  

Posted in a "new" thread, which was locked, but I think there are going to be more MC95 and windows ME issues coming...

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SteveG

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2003, 06:31:32 am »

Everyone,

Plug-in 3.0.41 somehow did not make it to the website on Saturday. It is there now. Please get it to confirm any fixes, in particular the delete files stuff.

Newhere,

You can move files from iPod back to your PC, but unfortunately not the smartlists and playlists, they must be created within MC.

Moriarty,

There is not a way to go back. We are working on the Unicode error and should have a fix shortly.

IDSmoker, Kurt and McLaugh,

Please get the 3.0.41 Plug-in, it was not posted as reported on Saturday, but is there now. I just included a change that will show us the filename if there is an error rather than that number so we can try to isolate if there is something about a particular file that is causing the problem.

In regards to the Playlists not transferring. Can you try the following test:

1) Format iPod.

2) Make sure "Transfer all files" is not selected in synch.

3) Synch one small playlist (not all music)and tell me if it appears.

McLaugh,

The iTunesDB file is in Drive Letter:\iPod_Control\iTunes


cct1,

There is a problem with donwloading Plug-ins from the webpage. We are working on it now.


Ben,

Bring on Tampa.

Thanks.


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SteveG

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2003, 06:46:44 am »

Everyone,

The problem with downloading the Plug-in was a problem with the installer in MC. It is fixed, but will not be included until tonight's build. Please wait to continue testing until then.

Thanks,

Steve
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2003, 08:44:07 am »

Steve,

I'm not 100% sure which version of the plugin I used this weekend (sorry), but I was using MC9.0.95.  I can say that ALL the files were numeric, rather than filenames.  If this makes things faster and more reliable, you'll get no complaints from me.  Example:  43323.mp3, 62249.mp3, and so on.
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benmaxwell

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2003, 09:45:15 am »

Steve,

Plugin works great now when syncing with "Delete Files Not In Use" checked...

-ben

E-A-G-L-E-S! (tampa looked strong yesterday, dude...)

Quote
Everyone,

Plug-in 3.0.41 somehow did not make it to the website on Saturday. It is there now. Please get it to confirm any fixes, in particular the delete files stuff.

Ben,

Bring on Tampa.

Thanks.



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mclaugh

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2003, 10:42:08 am »

Quote
Steve,

Plugin works great now when syncing with "Delete Files Not In Use" checked...

Can you check and see which version of the plugin you have now?  Is it 41?
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benmaxwell

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2003, 10:47:56 am »

yep...  3.0.41.

It shows up correctly under Tools/Plugin Manager/Portable Drives

here's my full sysinfo:

Media Jukebox PLUS 9.0.95 -- C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center\

Microsoft Windows XP  Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2405 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 515 MB, Free - 113 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2800.1106 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp1.020828-1920) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2800.1106 (xpsp1.020828-1920)
Shell32.dll: 6.00.2800.1145 (xpsp2.021108-1929) / wnaspi32.dll: Internal ASPI Layer

Ripping /   Drive F:   Copy mode:ModeBurstBigBuffer   CD Type:Auto   Read speed:Max
 Digital playback: Yes /  Use YADB: Yes /  Get cover art: No /  Calc replay gain: No /  Copy volume: 32767
 Eject after ripping: Yes /  Play sound after ripping: No  

Burning /  Drive F: YAMAHA   CRW-F1E            Addr: 1:0:0  Speed:44  MaxSpeed:44  Use MJ Engine:Yes
 Test mode: No /  Eject after writing: Yes /  Direct decoding: Yes /  Write CD-Text: No
 Use playback settings: No /  Normalization: None
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2003, 12:15:21 pm »

Steve:

Haven't gotten a chance to test .41 yet.  Will tonight.

One thing I wanted to bring up though is a problem some have reported with songs ending prematurely.  Usually the last 5-10 seconds will get cut off on some songs.  This has been reported a couple of times over at the 'lounge MC9 board.  I've asked folks if they have an example to send a copy of the mp3 and their iTunesDB to you.  

Anyone else, if you notice this, could you please chime in.

I haven't had an occurance today, or I'd send you my info.  But I definitely have heard it and I don't believe it's a problem w/the MP3 as they play fine in MC9.

Adam
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2003, 12:48:05 pm »

<<< This is a reposting from the .095 beta topic >>>

Quote
Somehow you have 378,039 files in your DB. (including removable, temp, etc.)

Search using this to see them all:
    ~d=a
Let us know what they all are.  Explorer or CD files maybe?

Good suggestion.

8044 files are correct entries, Audio, Image or CD.
130722 files are pathed to E:\iPod_Control\Music\...
239273 files are pathed to F:\iPod_Control\Music\...

I changed my system configuration during the iPod beta test, setting up a new hard drive as E: to hold APE files. The iPod became F: thereafter.

Another user reported MC consuming 250Mb. Is it possible this user had the iPod plug-in? Perhaps the generic HH plug-in behaves similarly? Perhaps Removable Storage? Food for thought...


I'll now delete all those entries and see what happens in TaskMgr (memory usage now up to 120Mb).

Well... this deletion is taking a long time. I'm typing while it deletes. Memory usage is up to 153Mb, about 7 minutes into the delete of the first 130722 items. CPU 98-99%.

It took 40 minutes to delete those items. Memory usage is at 109Mb w/o restarting MC9. I'm going to post this, and copy it to Steve on iPod Help II. There are still 239273 invalid entries. I'm going to try to make a modeless "Querying Database" dialog that can be presented to handle Windows messages during an inquiry. My hope is to prevent the White Window problem should this occur elsewhere.

In the meantime, would you be kind enough to help me discriminate between an empty Playlist Group and an empty Playlist using IMJPlaylistAutomation? Please see:

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=dev;action=display;num=1042484190;start=0

Many thanks, Randy
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2003, 12:49:39 pm »

Everyone,

Please get version 9.0.96 (available in an hour or so) and then be sure to get the new Plug-in (3.0.42) which will be the only one compatible with 9.0.96.

The new Plug-in includes - Composer, Date Modified,Date Created,and Comment fields. Composer is available for sorting on iPod.

One side effect, MC 9.0.96 will break file conversion for a day until it is fixed tomorrow.

Steve
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LarryJoe

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2003, 01:06:43 pm »

Hey Adam, so I wasn't the only one.  I would send a file, but I thought I was the only one with the problem and it got me so frustrated, I switched back to Ephpod, temporarily of course.  I tried to switch back this weekend, but MC9 .95 coupled with the 3.40 plugin that was supposed to be 3.41 crashed MC9 constantly.

I am not sure the 5-10 second skip forward is the Ipod plugin or just the last few very unstable versions of MC.  I think I'll let the experts at JRiver go through a week of version upgrades for both the plugin and MC and give it another go this upcoming weekend.
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cct1

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2003, 01:28:56 pm »

Windows ME:  MC96 downloaded with no problem, but the ipod plugin  (42) still does not download  (just like yesterday, I still get the  "successfully installed message, but still no plugin).
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2003, 01:53:04 pm »

Quote
I am not sure the 5-10 second skip forward is the Ipod plugin or just the last few very unstable versions of MC.  I think I'll let the experts at JRiver go through a week of version upgrades for both the plugin and MC and give it another go this upcoming weekend.

Would it be possible for you (JRiver) to retain the "Last Good Posting" of MC and Plug-ins?

I would feel better about moving forward if there were still links to MC9.0.88 and iPod .038. Although I saved the .088 download, I don't have access to the iPod .038 MJP or ZIP files.

If you'd leave the most-recent stable builds on the servers, and post links to them in the message releasing a new Beta, we'd all be able to downgrade with relative ease if problems appear.

It would be really cherry if you'd make a "Current Beta" web page and reference it when releasing a Beta. The "Current Beta" web page would contain links to the newest versions, as well as the last stable version. If you made the new page, we could have our browsers check if for updates on a schedule.

thx...
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JimH

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2003, 02:34:03 pm »

Quote

Would it be possible for you (JRiver) to retain the "Last Good Posting" of MC and Plug-ins?


It's possible, but it won't happen soon.  We're focused on fixing bugs now.  Maybe V10.

Thank you for your excellent bug reports.
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moriarty

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2003, 03:08:12 pm »

Just echoing cct1's problems with Windows ME and the plugin.  Looks like there's still a problem w/ the installer & ME.

(pushing me closer to the xP ugrade every day....)
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JimH

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2003, 03:42:20 pm »

This should be fixed in the next build or two.
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cct1

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2003, 03:55:38 pm »

Moriarty:  Are you also having a problem with your CD drives not detecting discs?  I have a DVD drive and CD drive  (Drives E and F in my case)--they show up in the tree like they're supposed to, but if I put a disc in, nothing happens...

I echo your sentiment about switching to XP....
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2003, 05:53:57 pm »

Steve:

Good news: Delete Files now appears to be working fine.

Bad news: in fixing Delete bug, it appears that Update Tags isn't working.

To reproduce:

1. Format iPod for MJ
2. Create a playlist based on any album
3. Sync playlist
4. Edit Genre for all songs on the album to "Test" (anything other than what it is currently).
5. Sync playlist w/Update Tags checked
6. Note that the songs no longer have a Genre tag on the iPod.  It gets deleted somehow.

Also, on another note remember I posted a bug about random playlists not getting updated properly.  I go the Master Playlist route, then all my other playlists are based off of this one for uploading purposes.

Now, I've got one playlist that is "Random Day of tunes.  It's criteria are:

Playlist="ipod tunes" duration=480 minutes sort="random".

As I reported before, I would expect that w/each sync this list of songs would get updated on the iPod.  It doesn't.  It's always the same playlist.  The only way I can get a new batch of tunes is to delete the playlist on the iPod then do the sync.

Wondering when you might get a chance to look at this one.

Adam
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willrmc

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2003, 06:46:32 pm »

Steve,
I am having the same problems as adam. the new plugin seems to copy several of the comments tags into the genre tag on the ipod very strange.

I know this has been discussed a bit before but i want to add my voice for it as well. i only keep around 10gb in my library to put on my ipod. so when i sync up i select sync all files. but when i do that i can't send my playlists over at the same time. i have to do a separate sync to put the playlists on. while this is workable, it is not convenient. i'm not quite sure the reasoning behind not letting that be an option. so in recap i would like to be able to select all of my playlists i want on my ipod as well as sync all files at the same time. once this is done the plugin will be just about perfect.
thanks again.
-will
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2003, 07:11:34 pm »

Hey willmrc:

Don't know if you'd like to try this, but it worked for me.  You might have already played with this, I can't remember.  Anyway, here goes:

I've got more than 10GB of files as well.  But I didn't want to limit MC9 by only importing some files.  It was pain because as I added stuff and removed stuff I'd have to keep editing my library (and my tags etc.).

So I now keep everything in my library, but I make a Smartlist called "iPod Tunes".  This smartlist contains all the Artists I want on my iPod, and I exclude some albums I don't want (like I don't want all the Beatles Anthology Series on, but I want the rest of my Beatles albums).

Anyway, for the rest of my playlists, I just create Smartlists that start off w/a Filter like this:

Playlist="ipod tunes" blah, blah, blah

See, that way I'm sure that any other playlists I make won't upload any more songs to my iPod than exist in my "Master" playlist.

That way I don't need to mess w/transfer all files, and when I want to switch artists etc., it's a simple at editing the iPod tunes smartlist and all my other smartlists follow suit.

Works great.  Might want to give it a try.  Of course, if you already know about this, my apologies for wasting your time.  ;)

Adam
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2003, 08:58:34 pm »

Quote
I've got more than 10GB of files as well.  But I didn't want to limit MC9 by only importing some files.  It was pain because as I added stuff and removed stuff I'd have to keep editing my library (and my tags etc.).

Hey Adam...

I don't wanna seem nosey, but do you really need to edit your library or tags any more, now that we're using MC9? I used to loose my Playlist contents when deleting file pointers and later re-adding them. But now, I don't have any more Playlists, only Smartlists, and I don't need to worry about deleting/adding any more.

For example, the [Custom 2] field is set up to create all my "Playlists" such as "Easy", "Rock", "Euro", "Quar", "Quin", "Symp", etc. I put a keyword (e.g., Euro and/or Rock, as many as I wish) in the [Custom 2] field for each of the Playlists the entry should be part of. Each Smarlist is then:

  [Playlist]=[All iPod] [Custom 2]=easy

...and each fills with its proper contents. I should point out that this does not keep any order to the songs in the lists, but that's OK for how I'm using them.

I make "Best of..." lists using the Custom 3 field. Each Best Of song has a string in Custom 3 that begins with "zb-" (for "z best", using a letter combination that can't happen in English). Then I use a two-letter code for the chosen Artist, such as "tp" for Tom Petty. Thus, all the songs I want in the "Best of Tom Petty" list have "zb-tp" in the Custom 3 field.

The iPod Smartlists and the View Scheme that automatically creates the "Best Of..." groups have this Search qualifier:

 [Custom 3]="zb" ~sort=[Track #] ~sort=[Custom 3]

There is an Artist element at the top level of the View Scheme, so if I expand the "Best of..." scheme, each artist is listed below it. That's pretty cool.

The last sort field is really nice. The "Best of Billy Joel" list includes his 4-CD superset. Since I want these in CD-order in the "Best Of..." view, I use the Custom 3 field again. Each song in BJ's set has a Custom 3 field such as "zb-bj1" for CD 1, "zb-bj2" for CD 2, and so on.

I used this even more fully by adding BJ's "The Stranger" to the collection. This has lots of good songs, and only 5-6 are on the 4-CD set. All of The Stranger's cuts happen to be on CD 1 of the set.

So, I included the songs that were only in The Stranger in the CD-1 list by making the first track of CD-1 "zb-bj1a", then "zb-bj1b", etc.. The tracks brought in from The Stranger were numbered in the Custom 3 field so they appear where I want them in the CD-1 track list. This way, I overrode the track sorting that otherwise mixed songs from The Stranger with CD-1 in odd places.

Since I can force the song order in Smartlists using the Custom 3 field, I can actually make an ordered list that is built automatically even if the file has been deleted and re-added.

Quote
So I now keep everything in my library, but I make a Smartlist called "iPod Tunes".  This smartlist contains all the Artists I want on my iPod, and I exclude some albums I don't want (like I don't want all the Beatles Anthology Series on, but I want the rest of my Beatles albums).

This is another problem that I've addressed using the Custom 3 field. My particular problem comes with Steely Dan, where I have "Aja", "Countdown to Ecstacy", "Katy Lied" and other original albums. I also have "A Decade of Steely Dan" and "Show Biz Kids", two compilations. I have every track of each of them on the main computer, but the iPod doesn't need the duplciates.

So, I put "Duplicate" in the Custom 3 field, and then use "-[Custom 3]=dupl" in my version of "iPod Tunes" to exclude the duplicates from any iPod Smartlist. I always treat the track on the original album as the Original, and the compilations as Duplicates. This loses what "integrity" might be found in the compilations, but I want the integrity of the original album maintained. Should the compilation be remastered, I'll copy its audio into another file that's made part of the original album's song set, removing the track that wasn't remastered.

I've done all this because I have a tendency to delete and re-add tracks. Now I never have to update my library if I do so... all the lists are made automagically.


I do have one problem I don't see MC addressing, so I'm doing it in a plug-in. My main music set is APE files, connected using TOSLINK to my Mark Levinson system. I want the *best* files for playing on this system. I've deployed MP3 versions so my family can listen to music over the network without chewing up its bandwidth. And then there's the set of MP3's on my desktop for syncing with the iPod... cuz syncing them from files on the network takes twice the time.

My plug-in is going to sync up the tags between the Master set (APE files), the Family set (MP3) and the iPOD set (MP3). The Master and Family sets will co-sync, so that changes in either will propogate to the other. You see, my wife and kids are updating the fields to make their own Smartlists on the MP3's and I'm playing with the APE's. If there are conflicting changes the plug-in's going to have to ask the user what to do, but other than that it will sync the sets both directions when I press the Sync button. The iPod will be a "write-only" set, since the iPod can't change any data.

The plug-in is also going to extract RIFF tag information from WAV files to populate the tag fields in MC. I rip tunes from the DSS and edit them from the stream with CoolEdit, which saves tag data in RIFF format in WAV files. However, MC doesn't read the RIFF data. The plug-in will take care of this, so I can import the WAV files and populate their tags easily. It will also write Tag info into the RIFF data of the WAV files in a similar manner.
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mclaugh

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2003, 04:03:15 am »

Quote

So I now keep everything in my library, but I make a Smartlist called "iPod Tunes".  This smartlist contains all the Artists I want on my iPod, and I exclude some albums I don't want (like I don't want all the Beatles Anthology Series on, but I want the rest of my Beatles albums).

Anyway, for the rest of my playlists, I just create Smartlists that start off w/a Filter like this:

Playlist="ipod tunes" blah, blah, blah


To Ipod devotee:
I'm going to tackle your whale of a post in a moment, but first- here's how I use the above playlist to help control things.
I have a smartlist called "Ipod Music".  Like Adam, I base all my other Ipod smartlists off this playlist.  I use the playlist so that I can make bulk changes to what I put on the Ipod, without making changes to each individual smartlist.
At first, I had it only saying mediatype=audio.  I then added an exclusion for any files where comment=christmas (I will lift this at holiday time, but no need to hear it the rest of the year).  
I'm going back through my files and assigning a base rating of 2 to all files that are ok to put on there- I have files that are my wife's, etc.  Once I'm done, I'll add that to the Ipod Music playlist (rating>=2, I think).
I was at work the other day, and an hour long breezeblock set started.  I hadn't thought about the breezeblock and essential mixes (these are british radio shows that are between 1 and 4 hours in length) I had.  I went back to my Ipod Music playlist and restricted it so it wouldn't take any "songs" that are longer than 25 minutes.
Does this example help you understand why it pays to have a blanket playlist?  As an analogy, you could compare it to using cascading style sheets as the basis for style on a website- it's one file that controls a bunch of other files, making it easier to make changes and adjust things once, while realizing those changes and adjustments across many things.
Hope that helps.
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mclaugh

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2003, 04:14:22 am »

Quote



For example, the [Custom 2] field is set up to create all my "Playlists" such as "Easy", "Rock", "Euro", "Quar", "Quin", "Symp", etc. I put a keyword (e.g., Euro and/or Rock, as many as I wish) in the [Custom 2] field for each of the Playlists the entry should be part of. Each Smarlist is then:

  [Playlist]=[All iPod] [Custom 2]=easy

...and each fills with its proper contents. I should point out that this does not keep any order to the songs in the lists, but that's OK for how I'm using them.


Ipod Devotee:
Have you been able to enter more than one value into Custom 2 and have it register for separate smartlists?
If a song's Custom 2 is "quar quin", does it get picked up for both the "quar" and "quin" smartlists?
I tried doing this for a while, and eventually gave up- I found that MJ wasn't grabbing songs unless the custom field (I used the comment or note field) only contained one term.  
This is why I ask every once in a while for the Ipod users to post the variables of their smartlists- by seeing examples, we can all come up with better and more creative smartlists.
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2003, 07:40:51 am »

Quote
Does this example help you understand why it pays to have a blanket playlist?

Oh, I definitely have a blanket playlist, "All iPod". It's Search qualifier is:

   [media type]=[audio] -Options=dupl type=mp3 ( [Rating]>2 or [Playlist]=[Today] )

All other iPod Smartlists use "[Playlist]=[All iPod]". The "Options" field is actually Custom 3, renamed in MC's Settings.

Quote
I'm going back through my files and assigning a base rating of 2 to all files that are ok to put on there- I have files that are my wife's, etc.  Once I'm done, I'll add that to the Ipod Music playlist (rating>=2, I think).

I started with the base rating of 2, but now I use 3. A rating of 1 means NEVER go to the iPod. A rating of 3 or above means ALWAYS go to the iPod. A rating of two means that the [Today] Smartlist picks a random set of albums that fit onto the iPod after the 3, 4 and 5 music is included.

My collection exceeds the 20Mb iPod, so this is how I have a surprise set of Rating=2 with me each time I sync it.
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2003, 08:01:12 am »

Quote
Have you been able to enter more than one value into Custom 2 and have it register for separate smartlists?

Yes, I depend on this. If you've created your Search qualifier with the Wizard, you'll probably have a search qualifier field such as "[Custom 2]=[euro]". This is a gripe I have about the Wizard, it always puts brackets around the value. If you use "[Custom 2]=euro", it will pick up all entries that have Euro *anywhere* in Custom 2.

Quote
If a song's Custom 2 is "quar quin", does it get picked up for both the "quar" and "quin" smartlists?

Well, since those are for "Quartets" and "Quintets", those two flags are never in the same entry.  ;) However, I do have some songs tagged "Easy, Euro, Party" and they show up in each of the three Smartlists.

I use Custom 1 for "Listener". We all put our initials into songs we like. So... No Doubt's cool songs have "DP, NP, RP, SP" in the Listener field. They show up in the "My Favorites" Smartlist for Dustin, Nyssa, Sandy and Randy as appropriate. The No Doubt songs show up in all our "favorites" Smartlists (or View Schemes). Music like Dire Straights has "RP, SP" and only goes into Sandy and my Smartlists... the kids aren't into Dire Straights (yet).

We also use this for recommending music to each other. We use the initials "D!, N!, R!, S!" to indicate that we think the person will enjoy the music. Another Smartlist called "Recommendations" looks for R! on my computer, S! on Sandy's, etc. After we hear the music, we change the initials to our normal ones if we like it, or just remove the recommendation.
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mclaugh

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2003, 08:37:33 am »

Ipod Devotee, thank you!
For weeks, I've been trying to set up a similar system, where I put a series of words in the comment area- but when I attempted to have those words picked up by smartlists, they wouldn't.  Now I see why- it's the [brackets].
I actually asked on the boards a few weeks ago, and I felt like no one could understand what I was trying to do.  
JimH- can this be explicitly added to the smartlist part of the instructions down the line?  (I know you're busy fixing bugs right now....)
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2003, 08:57:37 am »

iPod_devotee:

sheesh, I to even think I thought I was organized.  Whew!  

Heck, I haven't even gotten around to rating my measly 2500 songs (waiting for graphical rating, if it ever comes).

Great ideas.

Oh, and the regarding my comment about adding and removing stuff, I guess my whole point was that when I used to do that it was a pain to delete and re-add into the libary--not so much tagging.

Much easier to use the Smartlists.
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2003, 08:59:31 am »

Quote
JimH- can this be explicitly added to the smartlist part of the instructions down the line?  (I know you're busy fixing bugs right now....)

If you want more info, check out the help file for MJ8 under the topic Search Modifiers.

The ~sort command isn't there, but a ~s entry is there. I don't know if this conflict has been resolved.

Randy
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willrmc

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2003, 09:31:54 am »

adam, i'm with you on the waiting for graphical rating. go add your voice to my thread on the subject!
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2003, 09:43:19 am »

Quote
adam, i'm with you on the waiting for graphical rating. go add your voice to my thread on the subject!

I have to say the "I feel the pain" of the folks at MC/MJ on this kind of topic. In my case, I prefer numerical ratings. They're easy to update, and the MP3 file header expects numeric entries. As a true Geek, I find numbers comfortable and preferable.

I'd ask that "Graphic" vs. "Numeric" display is a user option for Rating. That's what I do when I have conflicting requests from my user base - I make it an option.

In the meantime, do use the numeric entries. Even if the display was graphic, they'd all reduce to numeric when they go into the MP3 (etc) files, so the graphical display will be fine when(if) it is implemented.
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2003, 10:00:19 am »

Request to all iPod users!

Do you want your Play Counts from iPod to be kept up-to-date, and accessible to MC???

Steve (and/or I) need a clue to make progress on this point. Does anyone here have a friend using MacPod with iTunes?

If so, please let me know. I want to see what the iPod "Play Count" file looks like when it's being used with iTunes on a Mac. If I can figure this out, I can pass it on to Steve. If he has file format and how-it-works information, he can do something about it.

Right now, Steve's pressed with MC9 release issues. If I do the research for him, he's a LOT more likely to help us than if he had to do the research and the coding.

thx, Randy

(new flowers later today)
(nieuwe bloemen later vandaag, indien je Nederlands lesen)
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mclaugh

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2003, 10:15:48 am »

Re: play count on WinPod-
I've seen conversations on both the Ephpod and Xplay groups, and they both concluded that a Winpod does not update the play count.
At the time, they had a mix of people using macpods and winpods.
I don't have any direct links on me, but you can look at the archives of the ephpod group at ephpod.com- there's a discussion archive there that's searchable, if I recall correctly.
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ashawley

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2003, 10:56:50 am »

Ditto that.....

Kurt has done some testing over at the 'lounge and has noticed that the Playcount file is always a zero byte file on WiPods.

That's not the case on MiPods.

Pretty darn strange that Apple would do that.  Make the firmware do something different when nothing else in the firmware seems to be different.

Randy: care to hack some firmware?  ;)

Oh, and regarding graphical ratings.  I just find it easier to do one click than 2 (click to field, click or key rating).  WMP Series 9 has it done nicely so you can just click the stars.

Yes, it's going to be a number in the end, and an option is probably the best way to go.
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2003, 11:24:34 am »

Quote
Kurt has done some testing over at the 'lounge and has noticed that the Playcount file is always a zero byte file on WiPods. That's not the case on MiPods.

Doh? As you said, why would a mfr change something like THAT in the firmware? Maybe after supporting FAT they ran out of Flash memory?

Quote
Randy: care to hack some firmware?

Yeah, definitely. I've looked around, but all I came up with was something that may be useful for us, how to replace the battery:

    http://home.no/deep/ipod/disassembly/

But nothing on firmware disassemblies or rev-engineering. Right now I'm gonna concentrate on my Plug-in so I can keep our music sets in sync with each other and get RIFF tag data from WAV files (a *LOT* can be done through MJ/MC's plug-in interface). If you find any good hacks on the net, lemme know.
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RandyP

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2003, 12:34:13 pm »

I got this from Adam(S) off-list as part of a larger msg. Thought I'd share it with you (all). (In Dutch "u" or "je" means singular-you, and "jullie" means plural-you. Once I got used to being able to differentiate between the two, I feel self-conscious in English where I can't. :) )

Quote
Question for you: What does ~sort=track# do? Curious about the other sort options.

Specifically, it is ~sort=[Track #]. It has to be done exactly this way in the MC9 beta. If you rename the [Track #] field, you can't get to it in Search fields for some reason.

What this does is sort the list by Track Number. It's part of the whole field:

    comment=zb ~sort=[Track #] ~sort=comment

The Search qualifiers are evaluated from left-to-right, as far as I can tell. First, this prunes the collection to only those that have a zb anywhere in the Comment field. Next, it sorts all those songs by Track #, so they will appear in the order the appeared on the Album/CD. After this sort is done, a second sort on Comment keeps the Artists and Albums grouped. The Track # sorting is not lost when the second sort is performed.

This all works because I use a convention: "zb-tp" is Tom Petty, "zb-st" is Sting, "zb-sd" is Steely Dan, and so on. If I want them in an order different than Track #, I append numbers/letters to the "Best Of" zb convention. Note that "zb-..." has to appear first in the Custom 3 field for the second sort to work the way I intend.

Quote
The only sort I do is through the wizard, and I set sort=random.  But that doesn't seem too random actually.

Curious. It works well for me. Do you have more than one sort field? If there's one farther right, it will sort over the ~sort=random. I sometimes put ~sort=album after ~sort=random if I want the albums together but the tracks random.

(Request: it would be cool if there was a ~shuffle operator, rather than ~sort=random. Then one could write ~shuffle=[field] and have better control of the results.)

This may be dumb, but as you typed it there was no tilde~ which is required, ~sort=random. ~sort=[random] is also shown in some MJ examples. Oh... I just tried:

    comment=zb ~sort=random ~sort=random

...and it did come out "a little more random".
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Kurt Young

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2003, 12:39:37 pm »

Aye, the playcount file is always 0 bytes on a FAT32 iPod; it gets populated/appended on an HFS iPod.  Why?

My theory is that iTunes deletes this file once it reads it and uploads the data.  Since this capability is not included in mmjb which ships with the iPod, this file would keep getting larger and larger and larger, eventually taking up megabytes of space.  With no way in sight to delete this file once it was done being used, Apple's dev team decided to just turn it off in the FAT32 firmware.

I think the more responsible thing to do would have been to make it delete itself when the iPod was booted up (dismounted and unplugged -- not reset via holding down the play/menu buttons).  That way, third-party software designers would be free to implement things like playcount updaters.

It's all theory, but the fact remains that a FAT32 iPod does not append this file.
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SteveG

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Re: IPOD HELP II
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2003, 01:00:17 pm »

Hello All,

Please get MC 9.0.97 and the latest iPod Plug-in (3.0.43).

This includes...

1) Fix for the download problem for 98 / ME

2) Fix for Adam's random Playlist synch bug.

3) Fix for Will's tag renaming bug.

4) Fix for file conversion.


Will,

Can't you achieve what you want by deselecting "Synch all files" and hitting the button "Select all" to send all Playlists?
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