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Author Topic: Idea for v9  (Read 3371 times)

nila

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Idea for v9
« on: September 27, 2002, 12:56:35 am »

First lemme just say,
I know changing anything about the GUI has the result that it might upset other users, while pleasing some and therefore is something that has to be done carefully.
Also, I'm not trying to harrass you guys or say your bad or anything like that because at the end of the day, me and everyone else who come to this board come here for just one reason, we think you guys do a fantastic job and are very good at what you do and you have the best product available by a long shot. We also obviously like you all otherwise we wouldn't waste our effort trying to suggest ideas, or in the case of some of the people, spending a lot of effort making plugin's for MJ for free.
Any posts therefore, including this, are usually just us trying to be helpful and not us trying to be at all negative no matter how they come out. We're only making suggestions about MJ because we like it. If we didn't like it we wouldn't suggest ideas, we'd go use some rubbish like Real Jukebox.

I personally loved the idea of using Dreamweaver style for the MJ interface as it would have given it a lot of power. Obviously though that would have been a lot of work and maybe too big a venture for you guys to want to undertake.

A few small changes to the GUI right now would still make it a lot easier to use however.

I've made a quick mock up of how I'd LOVE MJ to be. It's VERY small details that are changed but it would make it a LOT more user friendly for me.
Here's a picture of what I mean:

http://www.fantasyfuzion.com/junk/idea.jpg

p.s. - I know it shows Keith Sweat highlighted whereas in actual fact it should show 2pac highlighted.

Firstly - the quick jump menu on the left. It just gives a way to quickly get around the different options when like, as in the picture, you are half way through the media library. This can be an annoying task and really prevents just quick jumping from one spot to another. It would greatly improve the speed MJ could be used at.

Secondly, the permenant search bar, this could be used to search the currently displayed files and show the results which, as in the example would be great at times like this when I have almost 300 2pac songs. Searching through them would be hugely useful.
The check box allows the search to only search the results shown (from the tree) or to search the whole library. A check box right there is a pretty easy and fast way to allow users to toggle between modes and would again add to the useability without requiring too radical a change to the GUI. The other check box is a bit more radical an idea. By checking that, all search criteria would instantly result in all the View Schemes being updated. Basically it would make the search criteria specified become the search criteria for all the trees instantly, this would save having to make loads of view schemes simply to have different criteria in each.

Thirdly, Load search just gives an easy way to load pre-made searches in easily. It's the same as a smart playlist I think except brought to the surface more and made more intuitive. Also it loads the data straight into the search box so it can be instantly modified and played with while still keeping the original search specifications.

Forth thing is it shows the playing now window at the same time.
This allows me to easily add songs to the playing now by dragging and dropping them into it and also allows me to modify it's contents while still going around the library. Basically to implement this it would just be one extra right click option above playing now as well as slideshow, visualisations, track info there would also be: search box or something. Not too radical a change I hope.

As you can see, none of the changes are too major but they would all greatly effect the overall usability and speed of usability of MJ. You guys have done a good job at designing an amazing program and this would simply tweak what you already have, not change or replace it.

Anyway, I hope this was constructive and not negative or troublesome. I didn't waste an hour and a half of my time simply to cause you guys trouble or to be negative.
I love MJ and think your all doing a great job.


Oh yeah, and a P.S. - could we have radio stations saved in our data folder and not as cookies. Would be great to allow us to keep them between formats etc.

And a tool to export all settings and data folder to transfer them to another computer, do backup for after a format etc etc.
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sekim

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2002, 12:59:37 am »

Got your rain jacket and umbrella? Helps stave off cold water....
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JimH

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2002, 04:31:17 am »

Good call, MachineHead.

Nila,
>  We're only making suggestions about MJ because we like it. If we didn't like it we wouldn't suggest ideas, we'd go use some rubbish like Real Jukebox.

Thanks, but we're not going to make any major changes to the interface.  We can't do that now.

> This allows me to easily add songs to the playing now by dragging and dropping them into it ...

Have you tried right click/send to?  Or the "drop target" at the top of the tree (little red target)?

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nila

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2002, 05:29:13 am »

The drop down list of sections wouldn't have to be a major change. It could act like an anchor in a webpage.
All the sections could still be there on the left but just with the drop down list to give a quick jump to another part of the list.
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Matt

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2002, 05:50:01 am »

Nila, we added "Favorites" in version 9.  They're in the right-click menu everywhere in the tree.  We will probably also add them to the main menu.  This does the same thing as your navigation bar, but doesn't take as much screen space.  There are also toolbar buttons to make all of those same jumps.  Perhaps we can accentuate the "Send To" bar and add navigation favorites to that menu as well.

We've been planning to make the search bar optionally visible everywhere for a while -- it's a good idea.  Just give us a few weeks.

If you've tried the new search interface, you'll see that "Save" and "Load" are both there already.

And finally, we've already mentioned plans to add Playlists / Playing Now to the properties window, which will give you the split view you want.

Thanks Nila -- we really do appreciate the suggestions.  Just please be patient and understand that a lot of considerations (both past and present) go into designing the interface of Media Jukebox.

-Matt
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nila

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2002, 06:15:59 am »

Thanks.
I haven't got v9 on this machine yet as the instability and problems I had with it with importing my songs properly with the correct 'name' filed was bugging me too much. I like playing with new toys and would love to have it on here as well but seeing as I have a choice of a great Jukebox (v8) or a fun new toy that still works very inconsistantly for me(v9) I choose the jukebox. I'd like both but this doesn't seem possible.
I'd also loose the functionality of alot of my plugins.

And I know you guys are trying to add loads of great new features and that's taking a lot of your time and energy but I just cant help but wonder, sure MS is trying to introduce their Media Center or whatever it is, but it'll be at least 2-3 years minimum before many people use features like outputting it to a TV. For now these features must be effecting less than 1% of your users and yet they're taking up 90% of your time. To me it just seems like now would be the best time to have a GUI update and plan for the features you want to add in the future and then add those when they are likely to effect a few more people.

Anyway, at the end of the day though, it is your product and so your decision.

One BIG favour I ask though, you said your adding a few things already for v9.
Would it be possible to pretty please bring a few more of these to the surface via 1 click buttons or drop down lists rather than through right clicks. I personally dont like having everything in a menu, I much prefer buttons.
Also, I cant remember which program I seen it in, but it allowed for the actual right click itself to be customised, if you want to make such heavy use of it this would REALLY give it a lot more power.
A quick example is my burner - burning music is obviously something I do quite a bit to make myself mp3 cd's for my car. Right now I have to go to: Send To/Devices/Burner.
My burner is the ONLY device and have and so it would make much more sense for me for it to be a menu item of the 'Sent To' list rather than the Devices sub menu.
Also I'd probably stick it at the top of the menu as I use it a lot.
I also would probably send most of my music to playing now to hear it before I send it to my burner. So 2 sticky 'Send To' items would be helpful.

Just little things like that that dont require the GUI changing but just could really help us users that just want a Music Jukebox with maximum features and ease of use.

Anyway, nice to know your already adding a few of the features to v9.

Keep up the great work, I'll try 9 when it seems a bit more stable.
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PhatPhreddy

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2002, 06:39:27 am »

Nila, please dont take this as a put down but you need to know there is a whole sub community of 1000's (perhpas 10s of 1000's) of people who have been using PC's to output to TV's and projectors for years... The last 2 - 3 years has seen major growth in this field and this is what MS are now seeing as a cash cow and realising that they can sell you another PC under the quise of entertainment center...

There are whole manufacturers and specialist sellers who make and sell only these machines...

I suggest you have a look at how busy the HTPC forum on AVS is... It sure makes this place seem positively slow in post count terms (but then its quality not quantity hey Jim :) ) and its a very active comminity who tend to code things up that are needed... Geek toys and all that...  
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RhinoBanga

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2002, 10:08:25 am »

One thing to bear in mind though is that not all countries are going down the HDTV route ... so although PC/TV integration is a nice concept it's not a "worldwide" standard and will be seen as a luxury item for years to come.

Unfortunately the UK is one of those so we're stuck at 800x600 for a while yet ... unless you can afford a plasma screen ... drool :D
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JimH

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2002, 12:29:53 pm »

Quote
One thing to bear in mind though is that not all countries are going down the HDTV route ... so although PC/TV integration is a nice concept it's not a "worldwide" standard....

Unfortunately the UK is one of those so we're stuck at 800x600 for a while yet ...


Good point.  We're aiming a few years ahead with what we're doing.  It's sometimes surprising how quickly things can change.  Ten years ago, a 200MB hard drive at $800 was a miracle.  Twenty years ago, 300 baud acoustic modems were very cool.

In the U.S., you can get a Samsung 32 inch HD TV for around $700.  Both DVD and digital images look great on one.

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Matt

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2002, 01:01:55 pm »

Well, I don't have an HDTV, but I use MJ for TV, DVD, Music, CD's, and now even TiVo stuff.  It works like a champ, even at 800x600.
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Matt Ashland, JRiver Media Center

Polonio

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2002, 01:25:33 pm »

Quote
Or the "drop target" at the top of the tree (little red target)?


Wow!

I just realize how this item works. It's great for me (specially combined with double-click proper configuration).

Just a thought. I have played a lot with MJ last 30 days, people considers me good with computers, but I have not "discovered" what that "red target" is until now. Now, I love it.

Did you say something about standard windows interface?  :)







 
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nila

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2002, 05:52:25 pm »

Yeah :)
It took me 6 months to find that drop target and that was by accidentally clicking on it when I meant to click something else.
I asked that it was made slightly bigger :)
I always thought it was the title of the column and never paid it any attention :)
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PhatPhreddy

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2002, 04:39:04 am »

Rhino... Panasonic AE100 856x480 LCD projector delivered to the UK for <$1500... Cheaper than WEGA TV !!

Homemade screen and HTPC...

Little money big system....
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RhinoBanga

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2002, 10:44:55 am »

Quote
Rhino... Panasonic AE100 856x480 LCD projector delivered to the UK for <$1500... Cheaper than WEGA TV !!

Homemade screen and HTPC...

Little money big system....


lol ... I've got a 36" wega and that along with my floorstanding speakers, sub and pc take up one whole side of my livingroom   ;D

I would *love* a projector system but the room dimensions don't allow it :(


On a different note I am really looking forward to the day when we have true "persistent" computing, i.e switch on a PC and it's ready to use immediately.

That's when the TV/PC crossover will take place.


Suspend-to-ram is a start.
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JimH

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2002, 11:06:41 am »

Quote

On a different note I am really looking forward to the day when we have true "persistent" computing, i.e switch on a PC and it's ready to use immediately.
That's when the TV/PC crossover will take place.
Suspend-to-ram is a start.


I put the PC connected to my 32 inch HDTV in suspend mode and hit one button on a Sony Universal remote to power off the AMP and TV.  Turning it back on takes about the same time to get the PC going as it does to get a picture on the TV.  I just checked -- 12 seconds.

Phat Phreddy's right.  There are thousands of people already doing this routinely.
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Quisp

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2002, 12:33:59 pm »

Why?
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JimH

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2002, 01:21:37 pm »

I raised about $100 selling my DVD player and CD player components, so it's neater now.

If I convert my VHS tapes, I can sell the VCR.

I can pause TV, surf the web, then return to TV and resume.

I can watch a slide show of pictures I've taken with a digital camera and I can change the way they are organized.

It feels odd now to watch a TV that doesn't have these capabilities.

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Quisp

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2002, 01:39:50 pm »

Cool! OK, I'm sold!  ;D ;D ;D

How much is this going to cost me?

Am I going to have to get rid of my $2500 widescreen TV?

Does this only work with HDTV?

Could I just get a HDTV converter?

What cards do I need for my PC?

What RAM, what speed?

Are there internal DVD ROMs that handle progressive scan?
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RhinoBanga

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2002, 02:06:00 pm »

Quote


I put the PC connected to my 32 inch HDTV in suspend mode and hit one button on a Sony Universal remote to power off the AMP and TV.  Turning it back on takes about the same time to get the PC going as it does to get a picture on the TV.  I just checked -- 12 seconds.


My wega only takes 3 seconds to get a picture from cold :D

One question I have for you HDTV guys ... is it still a CRT or is it like a plasma/LCD and you can't fine tune the width/height?

Quote
Phat Phreddy's right.  There are thousands of people already doing this routinely.


I know and I'm one of them but realistically the thousands is insignificant compared to the tens of millions with standard CRT's.

What really frightens me though is the fact that if B Gates is successfull with paladin initiative and the tv/pc are combined we will have made a big step towards a nanny state :(

And don't get me started on the Tivo/Sky+ (the UK's major satellite suppliers' PVR using NDS software) ability to play targetted adverts when you pause.   It's there ... just not activated ... yet.   I love the concept but that issue really gets up my nose.



Big brother is not watching ... honest :D :D :D
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PhatPhreddy

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2002, 11:58:54 pm »

Rhino... A Screen sits against your wall and takes far less room up than a TV that protrudes into the room... I used FP in a tiny room as I would have had a TV in my lap but could comfortably handle a 60 - 80 inch image on the wall at about 8 ft viewing distance.. Not ideal but it was my first setup...

My First FP unit was a Davis clone bought B stock (products close out brand new full warrantee) about 2 1/2 years ago for $1500 (hot deal though) these still fetch around 1k second hand and bulbs are 400 USD for 6000 hours... It does not have to be expensive...

Why do HTPC... The list is huge...

Firstly for scaled DVD images a SW DVD Player is as good or better than any equipment this side of 30k terranex or Snell and wilcox interpolators simply as a digitial source stays digital without any analogue conversion (its the D/A and back that kills the signal) I now use a DVI 'in' projector so its digital all the way to the photons passing the LCOS panel only in light does my signal go analogue :D...

Secondly not only is it the dogs danglies in quality its the cats meow in cheap.. A basic HTPC could be easy under 1k and an all signing all dancing HDTV tuner card high end soundcard etc etc could be done at a little under 2k... Thats if you dont have one already... A radeon GFX card and good soundcard, a DVD drive, perhaps a TV grab card... Retrofit a PC for <$300...

Upgradeabilty... When new formats like DTS EX or DPLII come out HW users have to upgrade thier reciever to the new flagship model (massive cost) me I just use an update patch to my SW DVD player or buy a new SW player at $50 !! Plus SW evolves far more rapidly than hardware... What a HTPC was good at 2 years ago they excell at now... With the develpment and manufacturing cycles in HW there is simply no competition.

Flexibility... With available and simple tools even a fool like me with 0 programming skills can gain full and total control with Girder...

Look and Feel... With front end apps like MainLobby I can make the whole HTPC into a GUI controlled click onscreen button for animated cutscenes / audio / flash / Launching of application / Window placement control / uber component... The DVD player will remember per DVD my exact calibration settings (brightness / hue / saturation / gamma / etc) and pixel perfect AR control for image placement, blanking and manipulation (I use an anamoprhic lens with a 4:3 projector so need Aspect ratio control) it will also remember (if I set it) on a per DVD basis the soundtrack / subtitle / choices for the DVD in question... It will skip all the FBI / Menu crap after the first time played and so the insert of disk or running ripped DVD's from my media server (no wait state or digging through disks) and simply start the movie with all settings correct... Try that with separate components of any value.... Even crestron / AMX / Panja cant touch the HTPC...

X10 control of my room lighting... Start Watch DVD button... All room lights fade to black and rear screen illumination gently rises...

Obviously it accepts IR in so the whole lot is Pronto controllable....   It can do IR out for control of external components like the reciever / TiVo / etc...

My HTPC runs 24/7 on... When I press 'on' on the pronto, my amps fire up / my projector fires up / my source is set... The HTPC is already running theres no delay...

One component in the rack is the TV / DVD / CD / Etc etc etc etc etc etc etc....

For those that dont know and use a PC only as an audio component have a look at some of the projects that are at work on AVS... Its some fun stuff...

Do I sound happy with the HTPC experience ??   8)
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RhinoBanga

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2002, 12:35:05 am »

lol ... you are preaching to the converted dude.

I already use my PC connected to my Wega to watch movies, TV episodes, etc connected to the net via my WLAN.

I've got X10 and my Pronto's setup quite nicely too.

I just wish I had a bigger house so I could get projection system :(
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nila

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2002, 02:38:33 am »

My only ever attempt to truely integrate it all into my tv was to buy a Hauppauge WinTV Theatre. I've never been able to get a clear picture with it though, even when I plugged cable straight into the back of it. It's always been extremely grainy and bad.
After that I was put off, probably for quite a while now.
Dont fancy wasting another £70 for a poor quality grainy picture.
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PhatPhreddy

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Re: Idea for v9
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2002, 06:24:02 am »

LOL Preeching to the chior again huh ?? Sometime people dont know or dont know the advantages though so every now and then I have to drag the soapbox out...

If the machine is dedicated have a look at MainLobby and a few of the other front ends... Sure makes it look more professional...

http://www.webpromotion.com/cinemar/mainlobby.html

http://www.overnighttech.com/products/4amMC_overview.html
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