Topic: Emusic (Read 29835 times)

Lynn · « **Reply #100 on:** October 29, 2002, 05:58:19 pm »

Hi,

They are still the best game in town in terms of selection of full CDs for download. I don't pirate music, and buying CDs in stores is very expensive. To encourage them to go bankrupt is a bit self-defeating don't you think?

I for one would prefer they stay in business a long time even if it means a pricing model that bills on a per track basis. Clearly they underestimated the usage patterns for certain segments of the market. They can learn from this and restructure their offer, and if it is competitive we can sign up.

In the meantime, I hope they will provide some guidelines on what constitutes excessive use. Based upon Jim's statement of .07 per track royalties, at $10 per month, it is probably 5-10 CDs per month with overhead of running the site.

That is still $1-2 per CD and is a good deal to me.

Lynn

NY40Male · « **Reply #101 on:** October 29, 2002, 06:17:48 pm »

Hey Lynn...Try WebListen.com..
1) The Downloading Sucks
2) The File Naming Sucks
3) The Selection Is AWESOME

I Spent 6 Hours There Last Night And Got 82 Full Albums
And 10 Of The Albums Are New Ones That Just Came Out
I Paid For One Night Of Service To Try It...And I'll Prolly Spend The Next 3 Nights Fixing The Names (MJ Helps Alot) And I'm Still Not Really Sure What It Cost Me Yet For The One Night (We Have It Figured It Either Cost Me $14.00 Or $1,500.00 For The Night...I Gotta Get Back To You On That One..But If Someone Figures Out The Conversion Rate I'd Be Happy To Know)

zevele10 · « **Reply #102 on:** October 29, 2002, 10:11:00 pm »

( 1.50 US$) (1,65 euros)

This is what you paid

Now here the problem.Most of they custumers are in Europe where fast internet connection is not that much the rule.Phone 56 kp modem is.
So ,if all of you start to plug your ADSL and MJ download manager and got 500/600 songs a night ,they may have to change they politic as Emusic did

They are still the best game in town in terms of selection of full CDs for download

You are right,very right.
And if you try others ,you would see how to download from Emusic is EASY.

I may try something to know more about the limit

michel · « **Reply #103 on:** October 29, 2002, 10:33:03 pm »

I Just received it myself:

Dear EMusic Subscriber,

We received and reviewed your response to EMusic's
account termination notice. After re-evaluating your
account history, unfortunately we concluded that
reinstating your account would be contrary to EMusic's
business interest and policies.

Although EMusic's goal has been to help consumers
discover, sample and download a wide range of music
for personal use and enjoyment, EMusic cannot continue
to operate as a legal source for indiscriminate
downloading of copyrighted sound recordings and
musical compositions. Unlike other online music
subscription services, EMusic has gone to great
lengths to provide an open, easy-to-use service, for a
reasonable price. Without regard to content hosting,
serving and administrative expenses, royalties payable
to recording artists and/or songwriters with respect
to every downloaded track no longer affords EMusic the
luxury of taking these matters lightly.

In order to maintain Emusic's low price while
providing a flexible and compelling service, we must
focus on limiting instances of service-abuse by
monitoring the site for unusual activity. Examples of
service-abuses include, but are not limited to
password sharing and use of automated systems to
download quantities of tracks far beyond one's
reasonable personal use. Accounts found to be used in
violation of the expressed or implied guidelines of
EMusic's service are subject to immediate cancellation.

Your account originally was investigated due to
download activity far in exceeding that of the
overwhelming majority of subscribers. Upon concluding
that your activities constituted an abuse of EMusic's
service, we were and remain compelled to exercise
EMusic's legal perogative under the EMusic.com's
Subscription Agreement (http://www.emusic.com/bem/new_signup/terms.html), including the provisions set forth in Section
7.1 "You agree that EMusic, in its sole discretion,
may terminate your ID, password, account (or any part
thereof) or use of the Service for any reason…."

Again, we apologize for any inconvenience and hope
that you appreciate the basis of EMusic's decision and
action in this matter.

EMusic.com

Ken Brookings · « **Reply #104 on:** October 30, 2002, 03:13:48 am »

I would encourage a little more kindness for the Emusic folks. Figuring out how to make an Internet-enabled business is very difficult. Unlike established business forms there is no path to follow. Lots of folks on this board are downloading music at a rate that causes Emusic to lose money. Then banging the drum for lawsuits. Maybe J River should ask Emusic to contribute to this forum and state their case. Nobody wins if they simply go out of business because we found a way to tap into their database in a way that causes them to lose money. Perhaps they did approach things wrong in their product promotion but also perhaps we should give them another chance. I would be nice to see them survive and offer us a valuable service.

zevele10 · « **Reply #105 on:** October 30, 2002, 03:28:36 am »

The problem is not as you say.

The problem is '"UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS'

And it is not true

Now they tend to say there is not such a thing than unlimited download

But they still do not say what is the amount of songs you can get each month

. Nobody wins if they simply go out of business because we found a way to tap into their database in a way that causes them to lose money.

This is wrong.We do not find a way to do this or that,because they say UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS

They may had send a email to the ones downloading to much first and close they accompt after if they did not stop to 'over download'

Today we have a seller who lies saying unlimited and at the same does not care to say the limit of the deal he offers you.

I do not see a way to be kind to such a behavior,Emusic or any other one

Ken Brookings · « **Reply #106 on:** October 30, 2002, 03:33:41 am »

Yes, they said unlimited downloads; but perhaps they made a mistake; didn't know that MJ had users that would download 60,000 files just for the fun of collection. If this mistake would put them out of business shouldn't they try to fix it. They seem willing to refund money people paid.
MJ makes mistakes and we help them fix them and go on to be an even better product and service. Why does Emusic deserve nothing but our worst thoughts and actions?

zevele10 · « **Reply #107 on:** October 30, 2002, 04:09:49 am »

Go to they site right now:it is still 'unlimited downlads',and at the same they are still canceling people.
They did not refund money.Just the part of the month you are not member anymore.If it was the 15th of the month,they refund you 15 days.

Do you know Emusic is Universal? Are you still a kind of person having any faith in corporates,and most of all musical ones ?

Few months ago they put Universal music on Emusic-98 % of music on Emusic is indee labels- but downloadable only by people living in USA.

Many people on Emusic are not in the USA,but they have to pay the same than US people.
They answer F..K on put in polite and nice words.

If they close ,this is not a problem.Indee labels understood and see that music on the web is the way to go.
They will move to another service,dealing only with indee labels not saying 'unlimited downloads' and not as cheap as Emusic..
Concerning music from big labels YOU WILL NEVER EVER get a good and fair deal.
P2p in any kind of brew are here to stay

Beside this downloading 60.000 in 3 months for $15 a month can only put them out of trade ,i agree.
But why ,to this day thet still do not say how much downloads a month is allowed

JimH · « **Reply #108 on:** October 30, 2002, 04:41:18 am »

zevele,
I agree with kbrookings on this. He said it very well. EMusic made a mistake. Instead of just heaping abuse on them for it, you might try asking them to change.

Saying they are evil won't make them happy.

You've seen people come in here yelling at us and calling us criminals, right? Did it ever make us want to change anything for them?

Jim

zevele10 · « **Reply #109 on:** October 30, 2002, 05:21:18 am »

JimH

Let's say it is the same problem with encoding mp3.
You have to pay for each encoding.
You can sell the jukebox $25 and say unlimited encoding,and disable the mp3 encoding after number x of converting done by the person
And you are a liar and unfair person

You can say $ 25 the jukebox with number X encoding.
After this $x the x number of encoding.
In this case you are ok.

Emusic does not have to change and really give unlimited downloads.They have to give a deal x downloads/$x a month.

I am downloading right now from a site at $15 one month\1000 songs.And i still feel it is a REAL good deal.

But i'am ready to bet,unless going to court ,they will keep they front page with the 'unlimited download ' head line

Beside this :i really would like to know if someone downloading A LOT only the no 'for US only',i mean not downloading the universal stuff was close.
Do not think that misterX living in country Y is the case,very easy to get the US only stuff from anywhere in the world,do not need to live in USA.
Not my case,i cannot get the 'only US ' stuff.Was not that much i wanted from it to bother.And the very few i got it through nice people on a nice forum......

Glen · « **Reply #110 on:** October 30, 2002, 05:26:16 am »

Just to add my two cents, if you presume that E-music made a "mistake" in their marketing model that is all well and good. However, for them to go and cancel users who had "abused" the system without sending out a warning/change notice etc. to those and\or all users is not right from any viewpoint. As well, their website is STILL listing unlimited downloads as the norm. If they had/have made a mktg. error then I would expect that to be the first change made as it is the only point of info about their system. I like the idea of being able to dwnld music direct and it would be a shame from the users point of view if companies like this cease to exist, but if they can not do better in setting things up, then maybe they should not be in biz.
Glen.

Ken Brookings · « **Reply #111 on:** October 30, 2002, 05:51:19 am »

Glen, I agree with your thoughtful response. And Emusic seems a bit heavy handed in its handling of this so far. And they clearly have an obligation to represent their service honestly. My only point was that we should show a little restraint and balance in our reaction. Give them every chance to make good, reward them if they do, abandon the service if they don't.
I doubt very much if the folks operating Emusic are a bad bunch of meanspirited folks who got into this business to rip us off.

michel · « **Reply #112 on:** October 30, 2002, 07:05:48 am »

They could say me: "ok, michel, our previous business model was wrong, please understand it and please accept to continue with us with a new contract" (for example maximum 1000 files/month).

Instead of that, they said me "michel, we cannot continue with you, please understand it bla bla..."

I understand: They don't plan to change the message "illimited download" so they don't want people who could continue to download a lot of files.

ibusinesslawyer · « **Reply #113 on:** October 30, 2002, 07:10:15 am »

Emusic has been offering unlimited downloads for at least a year, I believe. It's hard to see how recent events could have arisen from a "mistake." They have a huge (albeit financially shaky) corporate parent in Vivendi -- this is not a group of whiz kids sitting around trying to figure out how to change the world. They could easily have chosen to offer, say, 1,000 downloads for $15 per month. Instead, they chose a different path.

townmountain · « **Reply #114 on:** October 30, 2002, 10:11:39 am »

I'm glad I checked in here and found out I'm not the only one recently terminated from EMusic for "excessive downloads." I went back over their user agreement and there is NOTHING about excessive downloads. Their "legal" department (yeah, sure ) is basically stonewalling me on it.

At least I won't be paranoid and think I did something criminal or whatever. To begin with, I'm going to e-mail my state attorney-general about them. We ought to spread the word on the various mp3 Web sites too.

sekim · « **Reply #115 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:45:44 pm »

Quote

Give them every chance to make good, reward them if they do, abandon the service if they don't.

Instead they abandoned the paying customers. Per their agreement. How simple can this be?

yosISme · « **Reply #116 on:** October 31, 2002, 07:54:16 am »

I for one have NOT been refunded yet, and they stated I would be nearly a week ago. I see others have, but so far I have not.

lee269 · « **Reply #117 on:** October 31, 2002, 09:17:13 am »

Ive been following this with interest. Im one of those who has not been terminated yet, but then I only download approx 2 CDs per week.

Emusic have really messed up here. Although I appreciate that perhaps their current model is unsustainable, the way they have gone about things is poor practice.

For me this is reminiscent of my ISP 2 years ago. They realised that their 'unlimited' dial up accounts were unworkable and tried to introduce a 40 MINUTE per day limit in addition to terminating a large number of customers for 'abuse'. Like emusic, they pointed to their terms and conditions when people complained. They lost a lot of customers and dented their reputation considerably. Eventually they redefined their products to allow varying hours connection per week, coupled with an online usage tracker and a flexible system that gives leeway to those who occasionally go over their allocation. Nowadays (for me at least) things are good again. Their products are 'honest' and their service had always been good. It was the way they handled the transition which was very damaging.

Its clear that if emusic pay $0.07 per song downloaded that they cannot sustain large numbers of people downloading thousands of songs per month. I reckon most people realise this. I think the kind of service they are offering, ie no DRM, is valuable. It would be a shame if they went out of business and provided more ammunition to the megacorps. Those who have been summarily terminated have a right to be angry, but I hope emusic have the will - and are given a chance - to rectify their mistakes.

Ken Brookings · « **Reply #118 on:** October 31, 2002, 09:48:49 am »

Lee, thoughtful comments. I hope you're right and they shape up. My guess is that in there meeting room back at the Emusic offices they feel under siege and that some of us have found ways to abuse their service. I think they forgot we're still the customer and see things differently.

ibusinesslawyer · « **Reply #119 on:** October 31, 2002, 10:21:57 am »

A couple of thoughts re the last two postings. First, Emusic IS a "megacorp" -- it is owned by Vivendi. Second, press accounts suggest Vivendi is desperate for cash. See for instance this story in today's New York Times:

MARKET PLACE
Vivendi Is Said to Be Near Sale of Houghton
By SUZANNE KAPNER and ANDREW ROSS SORKIN

Vivendi Universal is planning to sell Houghton Mifflin, the publisher of "Curious George," "The Lord of the Rings" and a wide range of textbooks, to a consortium of financiers led by the Blackstone Group, for about $1.7 billion, executives involved in the discussions said yesterday. . . .

The deal would bolster cash-short Vivendi in its attempt to counter the Vodafone Group in a battle for control of Cegetel, a large French phone company. Both sides covet Cegetel's SFR wireless subsidiary for its fast growth and rich cash flow.

[Rest of the article is at http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/31/business/31PLAC.html ; free registration required.]

lee269 · « **Reply #120 on:** October 31, 2002, 11:31:54 am »

IBL: Thanks for the info. I didnt know that - I dont pretend to be clued up on all this stuff. I do know there is a big battle being fought at the moment.

What I was alluding to is that I think that most of us dont want services where your downloads are locked to a single PC/you pay more to burn a la pressplay etc. For me at least, anything that allows the big players to say that other methods have failed is a bad thing. The impression I get from users on this board is that the emusic system is basically providing a service in the way users want - complete freedom to play the music you paid for in your car, on another PC, on your hifi, archive them onto CD, etc. Those who took the terms at face value are not to blame - Im simply saying that it would be good if emusic could find a way of continuing its current service within a system that allowed it to remain profitable and not alienate its customers as it has done with recent events.

zevele10 · « **Reply #121 on:** November 01, 2002, 06:21:24 am »

The main part of Emusic who is indee bands on indee labels will stay free.Because as i said many times,they just don't care about indee being on p2p.
If in they power,they will bomb all the indee labels.
Here money is not the problem ,POWER is .
In fact they started to put 1000 [?] from they labels,but loo like they do not put more since long.
Now if you dream about an honest behaviour,you have to know that all the universal music was for people living inside USA.But people outside USA to this day pay the same price than people living inside USA and having acces to a lot of more music.

They answer? It is like it,we know ,we do our best,They had an easy and cheap way to show that they care: giving to people outside USA some albums from mp3.com.I told it,but.....

Anyway universal is dead,all will fall in pieces.All the american part will be sell in pieces.
For once there is a justice

elgibby · « **Reply #122 on:** November 02, 2002, 05:53:34 am »

Well, they haven't learned anything. Got this email this morning:

Nick_LeFave · « **Reply #123 on:** November 02, 2002, 07:36:37 pm »

I have spent a long car trip to Chicago and back thinking about this whole emusic thing. It comes down to this, I get punished if I go back on my word. If I had a contract with you to deliver as many widgets as you desired and on an unlimited basis, then I found out that model did not work for me, I could do a couple of things. 1. Explain the situation offer a new contract which would give the customer what they want but give you want you want to. You would probably have to give the customer some compensation for moving to a new contract (ie. 1000 free deluxe widgets or something). 2. Go out of business. I have been doing some research and have not found a conclusive answer (I am not a lawyer), but the emusic subscription may be a contract because of the time requirements. Emusic may have to grandfather users in my state.

The real truth is if you can't do the business, then get out. I run a small web development business. I know my limits. I don't promise to sell the world, when I know that I cannot deliver you the world. Also, businesses that weasle need to start being punished (ie. Tar and feathered and ran out of town.) No apologies or apologist. Remember, if I sold you a happy ending everytime someone said the article "and", and I didn't deliver, I would be in violation. I couldn't later go back and say well I really meant a "few" happy endings (with the gaul not even to tell you how many desired happy endings would put you into violation) just because I encountered higher cost.

I ramble. I was going to be an apologist for emusic, but it is like an all you can eat buffet. Your Uncle Marcy has the right to eat all he wants until the end of that "dinner" section.

ibusinesslawyer · « **Reply #124 on:** November 04, 2002, 09:03:39 am »

Vivendi Admits U.S. Investigations
29 minutes ago
By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer

PARIS (AP) - Vivendi Universal acknowledged Monday that it is under investigation by U.S. authorities, a disclosure that comes one week after prosecutors in France announced they were examining whether the company deliberately misled investors.

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York has opened a preliminary criminal investigation, Vivendi said. The company also said the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (news - web sites)'s Miami office has been carrying out an informal inquiry and is coordinating its activities with the U.S. Attorney.

Full story at http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=530&e=4&cid=530&u=/ap/20021104/ap_on_bi_ge/vivendi_probes

sekim · « **Reply #125 on:** November 04, 2002, 02:14:53 pm »

How ridiculous, post my thoughts and they get edited.

Note to self: Reread Fahrenheit 451...

Listening to: 'Madman' from 'Frogstomp' by 'Silverchair' on Media Jukebox

KingSparta · « **Reply #126 on:** November 04, 2002, 02:26:00 pm »

You are not autherized to have that book.

Turn your self in, they will be easyer on you.

sekim · « **Reply #127 on:** November 04, 2002, 04:35:24 pm »

Quote

You are not autherized to have that book.

Turn your self in, they will be easyer on you.

Tell you what. I'll just fade into the blue if this keeps happening. I've been a staunch supporter of MJ since I ran into it. But, this is stupid. Just because a guy has a disagreement about how business should be handled, his post gets edited. If you want an enemy, let me know up front. There are plenty of places where my s h i t will not get edited by the forces that be here. Plain and simple. I still love MJ for what it is. A great organizer of music. But the forums as of late have had a heavy hand. Deal with the way people think that are different from what the powers that be (here). Don't like my thoughts, well I can go somewhere else and post with reckless abandon...

JimH · « **Reply #128 on:** November 04, 2002, 04:41:34 pm »

You can count on anger and insult getting edited down or out here. Thoughtful expressions, of which you are certainly as capable as any, are welcome.

Your choice.

In this case, I'm trying to help give digital delivery of music a chance. Emusic has a pretty nice service. It isn't perfect. I think they need to re-think their marketing. But, on the whole, it is a good service.

Charlemagne 8 · « **Reply #129 on:** November 05, 2002, 04:19:54 pm »

King,
Where are the other cars?

KingSparta · « **Reply #130 on:** November 06, 2002, 02:01:03 pm »

>> Charlemagne 8
i can add more cars but the forum limits a user on the lenth i can put into that field.

I found a few web sites where you can build a hole train.

JimH · « **Reply #131 on:** November 06, 2002, 02:09:24 pm »

got link?

KingSparta · « **Reply #132 on:** November 06, 2002, 02:17:34 pm »

http://www.djcooley.com/rr/gifs/traingif.htm

JimH · « **Reply #133 on:** November 06, 2002, 02:48:20 pm »

Thanks! You for the laugh, and djcooley for the trains.

michel · « **Reply #134 on:** November 07, 2002, 06:02:08 am »

For sure, to play with cars or trains in this forum is less annoying for EMusic than to say some embarrassing things about them.

I am sorry if it sounds rude but I don't understand why my two posts disappeared from the "New board for EMusic" thread.

Jim, it is fine you created a forum on this topic (EMusic and other legal services). I understand also you want to fix some limits, I accept that. But that said, re-reading my posts, I fail to understand what these limits are...

May be trains and cars drawing

Sorry.

JimH · « **Reply #135 on:** November 07, 2002, 06:41:43 am »

Michel,
I think the other thread was just "cleaned". I don't think there was a problem with what you said. That thread was an announcement about the board.

Sometimes we allow threads to change the topic a lot and sometimes we don't.

I'm sorry if you felt it was an error.

Jim

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Emusic (Read 29835 times)

NY40Male

zevele10

zevele10

zevele10

zevele10

sekim

zevele10

sekim

sekim