Topic: Moved search bar... why, please? (Read 4385 times)

phelt · « **on:** November 25, 2003, 08:28:45 pm »

I'm wondering why the search bar was moved from its previous location. IMO, the new location is bad UI. It's less evident to new users, it's further away from the other controls, and its position makes it less relevant to the content to be searched, ie. by proximity to the first column and the tree.

While I understand that a too-dense cluster of controls can be confusing to users, I didn't feel that was the case before. Now it seems as if the primary controls for MC are getting "flung to the four corners", literally. Is there a technical reason related to the skinning engine changes? TIA for any replies.

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** November 25, 2003, 09:08:25 pm »

The header bar above lists that held the search adds a lot of noise to the interface but not a whole lot of usability.

That header bar will either become an advanced feature that's off by default, or will be redesigned to be more useful.

I won't spend too much time defending where the search box is. I'd say you could argue either way and in the end both ways work pretty well.

The move was done because it's required for the bigger picture.

Thanks phelt.

Matt · « **Reply #2 on:** November 25, 2003, 09:15:32 pm »

Also, we're happy to field ideas on what that bar above the lists should look like or if it should be there at all.

I think small icons without labels aren't helpful. I stare at Visual Studio all day with its oodles of small icons. If you quizzed me, I'd only know what a handful of them do.

It seems like the only necessary thing on that bar now is a tagging mode button. Even there I'd rather have a combined browse + tagging mode so you didn't need to toggle anything.

Anyway, our plates are pretty full (Thanksgiving and all) so I'm not sure if anything too ambitious will happen for a bit. Still, ideas are very welcome.

phelt · « **Reply #3 on:** November 25, 2003, 09:54:16 pm »

Thanks for the replies, Matt. I'm afraid my ideas for UI changes are decidedly more ambitious than a Thanksgiving deadline allows

I was just suprised that there was a significant (to me) UI change at this stage of 9.1.

I'll wait until the 10 page UI overhaul threads start up again for v10

Doof · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2003, 12:06:08 am »

I really don't mind either location, but I would prefer it if it were a tad bit larger.

jleerigby · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2003, 01:08:22 am »

I think you make a really good point Matt. Why exactly do we need the bar at the top of the list? You can take it away as far as I'm concerned.

I put toolbar buttons (with text) next to the top menu except for a couple underneath the action window. The back and forward icons would fit nicely underneath the new search bar.

gpvillamil · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2003, 02:51:05 am »

The new search bar makes editing smartlists even more of a hassle.

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2003, 03:11:41 am »

As I said in the bug thread I always preferred the search bar being where it is now anyway like it was in the earlier 9.1 builds. I found it became confusing when it was added to the headerbar as it changed position depending on whether or not panes were displayed. In the new position it is always in the same place regardless of the current view scheme.

I agree thought it could do with being a tad larger by default. I confess I very rarely use any of the icons in the header bar. All of the icons I use regularly are in my toolbar and anything else I can do in the right click menu. I would also agree that a combined browsing and tagging mode would be better without the need to toggle anything.

Cheers Matt for all the work you and the guys have done so far. I wish you every success in terms of the bigger picture!! Looks like the future is going to be very exciting for J River!

Adam

phelt · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2003, 03:22:50 am »

Quote from: JLee on November 26, 2003, 01:08:22 am

I think you make a really good point Matt. Why exactly do we need the bar at the top of the list? You can take it away as far as I'm concerned.

Or that entire bar could be the search field

I would like that quite a bit.

Last note on the new position, purely a personal perspective: I use a widescreen monitor. I do a lot of importing and searches and clearing of those. At the end of the day, my arm will be too tired for proper drinking with the new search position. There will be repercussions in the brewing and distilled spirits industries.

JaWe · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2003, 03:29:42 am »

Search Position on the top right corner is OK but that resizeing of the whole top bar is annoying.. especially when viewing smartlists.

StFeder · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2003, 04:00:35 am »

I don't like the new position of the search field. The mouse way from the tracklist to the field is much longer as it was before. Searching, adding some of the results to playing now, searching again and so on is much harder now.
It only makes (a little) sense in my eyes, when the searchfield keeps its contents even whenever changing the view (e.g. from Media Library to Playling Now etc).

rocketsauce · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2003, 04:06:12 am »

I like the new search bar location, but hate that it is so small by default and that it resizes the display area. I have customized my display area to show quite a bit of info about the currently playing track and the resizing causes most of it not to be shown.

I've never understood why, in 9.1, the progress bar needs to be so long and why the playback mode and DSP Studio buttons are on the right instead of on the left where all of the other playback controls are located.

My suggestion would be to move the playback mode/DSP Studio buttons to the left underneath the other playback control buttons, make the display area longer, make the progress bar shorter and move the search bar next to progress bar (underneath the display area) and make it's default size longer.

Conveniently, I've whipped up a quick and dirty screenshot to illustrate my suggestion:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/res1223/rocketsauce/mcsearch.png

Rob

nila · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2003, 04:14:28 am »

Quote from: Matt on November 25, 2003, 09:15:32 pm

Also, we're happy to field ideas on what that bar above the lists should look like or if it should be there at all.

I personally think the toolbar should be beneath the panes - above the files and that it should be 'per view scheme' with it's customisation so we can put tools relivant to that view in there.
I'd also like to see the right click tools added to the toolbar so we could use buttons instead of right clicks to perform operations.

I'd LOVE to have buttons in my audio view scheme that I use for sorting out my files for: Fill properties from filename, Rename file from properties, etc. I MUCH prefer buttons to right clicks.

For images we also already have: Rotate, Resize, E-mail etc.

I'd always thought of this bar as a toolbar but have never been able to take advantage of it due to the limited number of 'tools' I can put on it and the fact it's the same thru all the view schemes.

Quote

I think small icons without labels aren't helpful. I stare at Visual Studio all day with its oodles of small icons. If you quizzed me, I'd only know what a handful of them do.

I fully agree - some items DEFINITELY need text, a few though like 'Rotate' etc dont and it'd be great if we could chose for each one whether it had text or not.

Quote

Even there I'd rather have a combined browse + tagging mode so you didn't need to toggle anything.

This was a GREAT feature but just confusing and had a LOT of potential for trouble. When I'm using MC for myself I didn't mind it - it worked GREAT - when my friends were using MC half the time u'd be worried that they were going to mess up years of tagging work.

I still REALLY think that when tagging mode is turned on it should go back to this mode not to the current mode.
Combine this with NO tag updates happening until tagging mode is turned off again (with background saves happening say every 10/15 minutes or so (user configurable like MS Word) and MC would become 100 times faster and more powerful for tagging ALOT of files.

Right now the toggling of Tagging mode on and off along with the tags all being written each time we move to a new field both combine to slow this process down a lot.

Quote

Anyway, our plates are pretty full (Thanksgiving and all) so I'm not sure if anything too ambitious will happen for a bit. Still, ideas are very welcome.

Not sure when thanksgiving is being English and that being an american holliday but have fun with it whenever it is.

Hope u get ur way and we get back combined tagging and browsing - U have my vote for it (as the replacement to tagging mode - not as standard)

Quote

lalittle · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2003, 05:09:17 am »

Quote

I've never understood why, in 9.1, the progress bar needs to be so long

I think you'd really appreciate the long progress bar if you listenned to content of much longer lengths -- i.e. something other than "songs." Audible content, for example, can be a couple hours long. With this type of content, navigating within the track can be VERY difficult with the "typical" short progress bar since you just can't do fine adustments. With MCs long progress bar, on the other hand, this task is MUCH easier. Going back just to hear the last scentence is practically impossible with a short progress bar, but it becomes possible with the longer bar since you have a lot more finesse.

For me, the long bar in MC 9.1 (Pixos skin) is a VERY welcome feature -- one of the very features that I could immediately appreciate when moving to MC 9.1.

Larry

scott_r · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2003, 05:24:32 am »

Can't say I'm too keen on the new search bar positioning. In this position it:
a) Looks like a global library search that doesn't respect the current view scheme and,
b) Resizes the title bar annoyingly when viewing SmartLists.

IMHO the search bar needs a row of it's own. The two conflicting UI elements (the title bar and the search bar) seem to be struggling for dominance - and it's just plain annoying.

Scott.

jleerigby · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2003, 07:15:42 am »

Maybe the search bar should be hidden unless you Ctrl+F or Edit>Search or hit a Seach toolbar button. When invoked the search bar could temporarily use up the space occupied by the player bar.

The would also solve the problem I reported in the bug thread whereby you get an unwelcome system beep if you tab to the search bar from the tree.

xen-uno · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:32:18 am »

Not liking the "new" position too much either. Prefer 310's position. Another good spot would be at the bottom of the tracklist screen. This would work well for any view. I'll post a mockup later.

10^-27

nila · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:54:00 am »

*gets his shield ready for the onslaught of stones to follow* - USER CONFIGUREABLE - Top, Bottom, Player Controls!!

NoCodeUK · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2003, 12:28:18 pm »

Like the position in Robs mockup...good compromise...

Adam

JaWe · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2003, 02:20:32 pm »

Quote from: NoCodeUK on November 26, 2003, 12:28:18 pm

Like the position in Robs mockup...good compromise...

Adam

I like it too...

Sauzee · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2003, 02:35:48 pm »

I'm afraid I don't like the new position at all.

I'd prefer the search bar to have a line of its own - it needs to be longer than it is now.

Searching is a vital element of the functionality of MC - it seems very odd shoved out in the corner - and tiny to boot.

xen-uno · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2003, 04:54:36 pm »

Here's the mock up cut...

For the big picture, see...
http://home.revealed.net/xen/MC-Mock.png

This layout keeps the search bar close to the tracks...where it should be. I like 'sauce's layout, too.

10^-27

rocketsauce · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2003, 05:19:16 pm »

Thanks, those of you that liked my suggestion. The problem though, I guess, is that some people like the long progress bar. Maybe the search bar could be made so that it could be manually dragged to the desired size.

I actually have never used the search bar for searching. Really, my only opinion on this matter is that I would like it to be long enough to make it easy to edit and display long smartlist strings. I know it does this now by automatically resizing, but I don't like it resizing the display area (which I have setup to display a lot of info about the currently playing track). Otherwise, I don't care that much where it is located.

Rob

KingSparta · « **Reply #23 on:** November 26, 2003, 05:19:19 pm »

Quote

I'd prefer the search bar to have a line of its own - it needs to be longer than it is now.

dido, on both counts

kiwi · « **Reply #24 on:** November 26, 2003, 06:54:09 pm »

I like xen-uno's idea, with the search bar at the bottom of the files list... and/or at the top of it. However, I'd really like it to be something that comes up only when you hit some hot-key... i.e. CTRL+F. And/or when you put search text into the upper bar and hit enter. The search is performed and the search terms would appear in that box.

I also would like to say, that I don't mind the change in search bar location. I think that it looks cleaner where it is.

kiwi

pfeffermj · « **Reply #25 on:** November 26, 2003, 09:57:42 pm »

The only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it auto-resizes.

I have some pretty complicated smartlists, and while I'm listening to them, the search bar becomes REALLY wide and eats up most of the screen real estate up on the top of the display, NOT pretty.

Is there a way to turn off the auto-resize?

--Matt

nila · « **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2003, 04:08:23 am »

Definitely finding it less conveniant having it at the top - it's further away from the files so further I have to move my mouse when dealing with files

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Author Topic: Moved search bar... why, please? (Read 4385 times)

phelt

phelt

jleerigby

phelt

nila

jleerigby

nila

nila