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[sraymond]

Well, we didn't get a name change (I really liked "Theater Mode"), but some nice progress has been made.  I know it's not finished yet, but I thought I'd ask a few questions...

1)  What's left to be done?

2)  Other than:

Code: [Select]

<TEXT>
   <Item Text="[Time]" Location="*\**" TextColor="FFFFFF" Rect="1,97,10,99" Capitalization="0" Alignment="0" />
   <Item Text="[Location]" Location="*\**" TextColor="FFFFFF" Rect="1,1,50,3" Capitalization="0" Alignment="0" />
</TEXT>What text items can be placed in the hairstyle?  It's be really nice to have [Name], among others.

2a)  How can we change the size of the Item's text?

3)  Alpha Blending:  Is the concept that anything that takes a PNG won't have an alpha option in the main.xml?

4)  Can all the customizations be put into the main.xml?  Currently, I notice that font size is missing (you have to select it in "Configure Hairstyle")  It would also be nice to remove nodes from the main.xml as well.  Oh...  and it would be nice to change the Hairstyle from within the Hairstyle - rather than going to the "Configure Hairstyle" dialog box.  I also note that changing the hairstyle requires a cycle out of Hairstyle and back again to effect the change.

5)  I think the left-hand-side (buttons) vs. right-hand-side (list) navigation is still a bit unpleasant.  Is there any consideration to changing this?

Scott-

[nila]

Hairstyle is definitely a lot nicer in v10.

One thing I miss is the 'back' button. It would be nice if this was still there always in the right hand pane fixed as the first item in the list.

It makes it REALLY self explanatory to people how to use and navigate it. Right now they only know when I tell them.


Jump on play if has display is still not working though.

[Quisp]

Hairstyle is definitely a lot nicer in v10.

One thing I miss is the 'back' button. It would be nice if this was still there always in the right hand pane fixed as the first item in the list.

It makes it REALLY self explanatory to people how to use and navigate it. Right now they only know when I tell them.

I agree 200%. Is there a reason why this is missing not only from HS but most other similar interfaces? Just curious.

[bennyd]

And there are not TV properties anymore.

You can just select a channel to llok at but there is no way anymore to start TV recording or timeshifting

[sraymond]

And there are not TV properties anymore.

You can just select a channel to llok at but there is no way anymore to start TV recording or timeshifting

Yikes...  I hadn't noticed that.  This would be a big deal for many, I think.

One thing I miss is the 'back' button. It would be nice if this was still there always in the right hand pane fixed as the first item in the list.

It makes it REALLY self explanatory to people how to use and navigate it. Right now they only know when I tell them.

Yup...  I agree.  I was a little confused when I was working on a new hairstyle.  There's a BackThumb.png image, but it doesn't seem to do anything.  I wonder if it's just a bug.

Scott-

[skidoo]

Hairstyle is going to be a critical UI for me. Currently I'm investigating Windows Media Center Edition as a possible alternative. I really need something clean and simple for non-geeks to use in different parts of the houses. I'm trying to go 100% CD-less.

[Matt]

2a)  How can we change the size of the Item's text?

Just make the rect for the text item larger.

3)  Alpha Blending:  Is the concept that anything that takes a PNG won't have an alpha option in the main.xml?

You can specify an alpha for any item.  However, since PNG supports alpha internally you can just build the alpha into the image if it's easier.

4)  Can all the customizations be put into the main.xml?  Currently, I notice that font size is missing (you have to select it in "Configure Hairstyle")  It would also be nice to remove nodes from the main.xml as well.  Oh...  and it would be nice to change the Hairstyle from within the Hairstyle - rather than going to the "Configure Hairstyle" dialog box.

We want most settings to happen outside an XML editor.  Also, we don't want settings to happen from inside Hairstyle anymore as it pollutes the clean feel we're gunning for.  The idea would be to configure once, and then be set.

5)  I think the left-hand-side (buttons) vs. right-hand-side (list) navigation is still a bit unpleasant.  Is there any consideration to changing this?

Can you expound?  It's too limited to only have one list, so I think we need both.  Maybe the execution could be slicker.

[Jaguu]

Hi Matt,

Hairstyle looks much better now, but there is still one thing I do not understand:

Can you explain the logic that you don't want to lock Hairstyle in its own world. Why the hell you want us to return to Mega-me at the end of a slide show and not gracefully return to the menu selection that we started the slide show. To me this is totally illogical.

As you have always ignored our request for locking Hairstyle, at least we would like to hear your reasons you do so.

If Hairstyle should be a special interface for TV's, then we expect that in some way it can be locked, so that TV users with remote control don't need to fiddle around the Mega-me interface. Looking forward for an explanation! Thank you!

[sraymond]

4)  Can all the customizations be put into the main.xml?  Currently, I notice that font size is missing (you have to select it in "Configure Hairstyle")  It would also be nice to remove nodes from the main.xml as well.  Oh...  and it would be nice to change the Hairstyle from within the Hairstyle - rather than going to the "Configure Hairstyle" dialog box.

We want most settings to happen outside an XML editor.  Also, we don't want settings to happen from inside Hairstyle anymore as it pollutes the clean feel we're gunning for.  The idea would be to configure once, and then be set.

Well, I can see what you mean about not wanting to have normal users edit an .xml to make configuration changes.  And I certainly don't intend to tell you guys how to program ('cause you've obviously figured out how to make a great product!).  But I'll wonder aloud three things:

1)  Shouldn't anything that affects the presentation of the GUI (Hairstyle, in this case) be settable from the GUI configuration file (in this case, the Hairstyle's main.xml)?  Text size affects how big the buttons and list rectangles should be.  The number of buttons presented (i.e. removing nodes) affects the button layout design.  I'd think both of these should be configured by the skin author - and that means putting it in the main.xml.

2)  Instead of using the registry to store setting information, why couldn't MC use XML configuration files?  Is there a performance hit?  I notice that almost every Java application I have uses XML configuration files.

3)  Might there be a balance between "not wanting settings to happen from inside Hairstyle" and the usability of the Hairstyle GUI?  If I'm using MC for my HTPC (with TV Out), the Hairstyle GUI is *the only* option.  Dialog boxes are impossible to use.  So if you take away the ability to choose settings from inside Hairstyle, you're effectively telling me that you don't want me to change settings at all!  As you can imagine, that's a bit hard to swallow.  Yet I may want to have different Hairstyles for different users/uses.  So why not let me choose that from within Hairstyle?  You might put all setting-type items under one branch - so that it won't affect the usability of the rest of Hairstyle.

5)  I think the left-hand-side (buttons) vs. right-hand-side (list) navigation is still a bit unpleasant.  Is there any consideration to changing this?

Can you expound?  It's too limited to only have one list, so I think we need both.  Maybe the execution could be slicker.

I find myself inadvertantly going to the buttons while navigating back up the list tree.  Instead of having buttons for the various commands, why not transport-type icons?  Using the buttons also "ruins" the interface when I'm watching the PN full-screen - because the PIP has to be pretty small to fit the buttons and list.  If the buttons were icons at the bottom (or other edge of) of the screen, it would be a much better use of real-estate.  Then I should not be able to mistakenly "navigate" to them while moving through the list.

Here's a pretty revolutionary idea:  change Hairstyle so that I have the PN always fullscreen (i.e. like Full-screen, rather than Hairstyle's PIP) - unless nothing is playing, in which case present the background.jpg.  Then superimpose the buttons and/or list when I want to do something.  So, really, Hairstyle is just the presentation of the buttons and/or list.  Let me choose *either* buttons or list separately...  so if I want transports, I can turn just them on.  Or if I want the list, I can turn just that on.  Or if I want both, I can turn them both on.  Of course, there would need to be an easy way to turn them on - maybe a hotkey (like the current MENU key) that gives you three items:  buttons, list, or both.  Repressing the hotkey turns whatever was selected off - bringing things back to Full-Screen mode.

This isn't that far from what is done now.  Maybe you won't like the idea about getting rid of the PIP.  But I think presenting the buttons (as icons) and the list separately (or both, if the user wants) would go a long way to making the interface better.

Scott-

P.S.  Thanks for the other answers!

[sraymond]

If Hairstyle should be a special interface for TV's, then we expect that in some way it can be locked, so that TV users with remote control don't need to fiddle around the Mega-me interface. Looking forward for an explanation! Thank you!

I can't imagine anyone who's ever used Hairstyle on a TV would disagree with Jaguu on this.  If all you've got is a remote, you never-ever want to see Mega-me at 800x600 or 640x480 on a regular TV.  Nor do you want to see dialog boxes.

Scott-

[nila]

Afraid I agree with everyone else too Matt,
this seems backwards to me.

The machine I've created the HTPC on has NO monitor and is PURELY done through the TV.

I'd want all options and all configuration to do with hairstyle set up AS a hairstyle option with a hairstyle GUI, not the oposite way around.

I want to be able to configure hairstyle from within hairstyle, burn cd's from within hairstyle and also rip cd's from within hairstyle.

Going back to the main gui to me is painful on the eyes as I strain to read the text on the TV screen.


I fully agree on taking options out of an XML file and putting them into the program as options as this means the user can configure it how they want easily but I think ALL these options should be as hairstyle options, NOT as options that require a monitor to set.


Gotta say thou, my uncle LOVES hairstyle and the system I've just set up for him using it, he's been playing with it non stop.

[skidoo]

I don't know about burning and ripping and whatnot from hairstyle, but I would like haristyle to be at least idiot-proof enough such that my wife or my six year old could play tunes just as easily as they can when they they pop a CD into a conventional rack audio system. That's my goal.

Also remember that, in addition to TVs as display devices, many of us now have plasma screens with SVGA (RGB) inputs. That is, my plasma displays act as monitors and conventional TVs (Radeon video cards providing the TV pictures).

[JimH]

Skidoo,
What do you or your wife find difficult?

[skidoo]

Skidoo,
What do you or your wife find difficult?

I don't find any of it difficult. Quite the contrary. But I'm a software engineer and uber-nerd. My wife's not. Neither is my six (nearly seven) year old. But both can operate a CD changer with no problems. Media Center is another story.

Specifically, here are a few issues:

1. Our remotes work fine in mega-me. Not so in hairstyle. At least not as easily. That is, you can use the mouse cursor buttons on the remote to (tediously) drive the mouse pointer around the screen and click, but this is slow and requires patience and a level of precision neither really possess, at least in this context.

2. That having been said, the tree (in mega-me) is way too small and complex for them. They'd love to be able to scroll through lists of playlists and select one.  And then of course be able to pause, advance, etc. That's it. Anything else blows their minds.

3. A crucial element of this playlist navigation and selection is the ability to go backwards and forwards through the screens with ease. In the current hairstyle the back and forward buttons are tiny and shoved in the lower left corner, so even if we resort to mousing with the remote, it's extra painful to perform these basic maneuvers.

Here's my ideal hairstyle skin:

1. Big clear buttons:

Audio->[Playlist Category]->[Playlist]
Video->[Playlist Category]->[Playlist]
Images->[Playlist Category]->[Playlist]

And prominent back and forward buttons.

2. Five-way remote button support. E.g. up, down, left, right, OK. Just like in mega-me.

3. Sexiness. Like now. It looks nice now. It's just not very functional, for my uses. But sex appeal is important.

4. Visualizations from Hairstyle. The little PIP window thing in the lower left is kind of useless to me. I need full screen vizes to come on automajically. To prevent burn-in on my plasma screens. This should also temporarily disable any regular screen savers, like my ATI TV app does now. It's annoying to be listening to tunes and have aquarium bubbles all of a sudden start gurgling loudly in the background .

Hairstyle tweaked to meet these requirements would be like a little Holy Grail for me. It would make my life easier, and I wouldn't get quite so many sideways looks from The Boss when I want to implement some new gizmo or gadget . Right now there's always a dialog surrounding music playback that goes something like this:

H: "I want to put on some music."
Me: "OK, do this, and this, and then this, and then click here...."
H: "Can you just put it on for me?"
Me: "OK." [Click, click, click, click, ...]

The notion of picking up a mouse in a den or rec room is anathema to her. Especially to do something as simple as play some tunes.

We're both huge music fans (she maybe even more than me), and we've been almost exclusively MP3 for years, but as a result of the (relatively) complex requisite software I have become the house DJ. I'd rather be just "House Playlist Compiler."

I think with hairstyle Media Center is poised to provide a bridge between the two essential sides of working with a personal music collection: library management and convenient playback. I don't know of anyone who has really built that ship yet.

[JimH]

Why are the mouse cursor buttons slow?  Something's not right.

[sraymond]

1. Our remotes work fine in mega-me. Not so in hairstyle. At least not as easily. That is, you can use the mouse cursor buttons on the remote to (tediously) drive the mouse pointer around the screen and click, but this is slow and requires patience and a level of precision neither really possess, at least in this context.

Sounds like you're not using remote control keyboard direction keys (i.e. left, right, up, down), but rather moving the mouse cursor with the remote...  What sort of remote do you have?  I can move the mouse cursor with my ATI Remote Wonder - but you're right that it's quite a challenge.  But using keyboard direction keys works just fine.

3. A crucial element of this playlist navigation and selection is the ability to go backwards and forwards through the screens with ease. In the current hairstyle the back and forward buttons are tiny and shoved in the lower left corner, so even if we resort to mousing with the remote, it's extra painful to perform these basic maneuvers.

This is skinable in the main.xml:

Code: [Select]

<NAVIGATION>
   <Left Bitmap="Navigation\Left.gif" Rect="8.2,96.5,11.0,99.5" Alignment="5" />
   <Right Bitmap="Navigation\Right.gif" Rect="11.0,96.5,13.8,99.5" Alignment="4" />
   <Up Bitmap="Navigation\Up.gif" Rect="13.8,96.5,16.6,99.5" Alignment="0" />
   <Down Bitmap="Navigation\Down.gif" Rect="16.6,96.5,19.4,99.5" Alignment="0" />
   <Enter Bitmap="Navigation\Enter.gif" Rect="19.4,96.5,22.2,99.5" Alignment="0" />
</NAVIGATION>Though I don't use them at all.

2. Five-way remote button support. E.g. up, down, left, right, OK. Just like in mega-me.

Isn't this what Hairstyle already has?

Scott-

[slikvik]

It seems there is more and more request for what myself and Nila have asked for.

I agree with what others are saying. No matter if there are 5 keys are 15 keys I can't just pass over Hairstyle to someone else to use.

They get confused by the drilling of two seprate lists (left options, right music) from just left and right cursors! It just don't work unless people play with it for 10 minutes or you spend 5 minutes showing them. Heck I still get annoyed with it and I'm a computer geek/programmer of 15 years.

It should follow 2 simple rules:

1) ENTER - Drilling and scrolling are done with Buttons ONLY (Back, Scroll Up, Scroll Down, Open Album, Select Track.)

2) CURSORS - Navigate ONLY the buttons that are visible on screen.

I know that this seems hard to explain, but myself and Nila have seen this working perfectly in $howshifter. I'm not asking to copy someones product just the basic navigation premise. We are all dedicated followers (and purchasers) and I personally would love just 3 reasons why the above system would not work. Once you have incorparated MC10's brilliant custom views into this it would be pefect.



Regards

Vic

[skidoo]

Why are the mouse cursor buttons slow?  Something's not right.

Hmm. Well, the buttons are responsive. That's not the problem. But they're slow because of the interaction required on the part of the user. That is, you have to first decide which direction of the 360 degrees available you're going to send the mouse cursor. Then you have to hold down the cursor button just long enough to reach your target, releasing the button at the precise moment so the cursor floats above the correct spot. Then press another button to left click.

The five-way is much easier. Left, right, up, down, click. Simple. Unfortunately, while the five-way works in mega-me in my .22 version of mC 10, it doesn't work in Hairstyle. It doesn't do anything.

[skidoo]

Sounds like you're not using remote control keyboard direction keys (i.e. left, right, up, down), but rather moving the mouse cursor with the remote...

I'm moving the mouse cursor with the remote precisely because the "keyboard direction" buttons don't work in hairstlye. As I originally stated, they (the five-way buttons) work fine in mega-me. Just not in hairstyle. I'm on version .22.

What sort of remote do you have?  I can move the mouse cursor with my ATI Remote Wonder - but you're right that it's quite a challenge.  But using keyboard direction keys works just fine.

The remote in question is a Remote Wonder. Absolute latest version of ATI's software (EasyLook).

This is skinable in the main.xml:

Code: [Select]

<NAVIGATION>
   <Left Bitmap="Navigation\Left.gif" Rect="8.2,96.5,11.0,99.5" Alignment="5" />
   <Right Bitmap="Navigation\Right.gif" Rect="11.0,96.5,13.8,99.5" Alignment="4" />
   <Up Bitmap="Navigation\Up.gif" Rect="13.8,96.5,16.6,99.5" Alignment="0" />
   <Down Bitmap="Navigation\Down.gif" Rect="16.6,96.5,19.4,99.5" Alignment="0" />
   <Enter Bitmap="Navigation\Enter.gif" Rect="19.4,96.5,22.2,99.5" Alignment="0" />
</NAVIGATION>Though I don't use them at all.

But for this to be of any use, I'd have to make the PIP box disappear and the buttons bigger. And the buttons would have to be responsive to the five-way pad on the remote.

2. Five-way remote button support. E.g. up, down, left, right, OK. Just like in mega-me.

Isn't this what Hairstyle already has?

Not on my system. As mentioned, I'm running .22. Does it definitely work on yours?

[JimH]

I'm moving the mouse cursor with the remote precisely because the "keyboard direction" buttons don't work in hairstlye. As I originally stated, they (the five-way buttons) work fine in mega-me. Just not in hairstyle. I'm on version .22.

They do work.  You just don't have the setup right.  You need to use a supported IR receiver like the USBUIRT.  If so, you can program MC by using the "learn" mode so it can use any remote.

[skidoo]

I'm moving the mouse cursor with the remote precisely because the "keyboard direction" buttons don't work in hairstlye. As I originally stated, they (the five-way buttons) work fine in mega-me. Just not in hairstyle. I'm on version .22.

They do work.  You just don't have the setup right.  Are you using a supported IR receiver?  If so, you can program MC by using the "learn" mode so it can use any universal remote.

Hmmm. Why does this remote work fine in mega-me, but not in hairstyle? Note that actual keyboard arrow keys don't work in hairstyle either. I'll fiddle around with it. If I can't get it to work, I'll switch to IR and drive it with a Pronto. But this will require going back to two remotes, as the TV functions are run by the Remote Wonder. I'd love to use Media Center's TV, but with no guide functionality....

But even if I could get a remote to work with hairstyle, it's still unuseable for the other above-mentioned reasons.

[JimH]

It isn't the IR vs radio that makes the difference.  It's whether your receiver is supported.  Check the remote options available in MC.  There are some details in the FAQ.  The options page in MC has a remote section.  Etc. etc.

It would be nice if you could come down off the uber-nerd soapbox.  

[skidoo]

Wait. Crap. Now it's working. From the keyboard or the mouse. Wasn't working a few minutes ago, I swear ! I'll try to reproduce it.

But in the meantime, how can I modify hairstyle to make it launch visualizations automatically once music starts playing, so I don't burn up my screens? Or do I just need to configure a silent screensaver for now?