Topic: Better Visualizations (Read 8877 times)

sdgrizdan · « **on:** January 28, 2004, 12:20:54 pm »

While we're on the topic of visualizations, I think that for v10, it is time to revamp these visuals to come close to the awesome iTunes ones. This is one aspect of Media Center that is still behind other media programs.

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2004, 01:04:54 pm »

Have you played with visualization studio, or tried the 3D visualizations?

mrsnarky · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2004, 01:40:43 pm »

Quote from: Matt on January 28, 2004, 01:04:54 pm

Have you played with visualization studio, or tried the 3D visualizations?

That implies that one has some sort of design talent, which I don't have.

The one thing that Winamp has going for it is the massive (and good) collection of visualizations. That's what MC needs.

jleerigby · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2004, 02:35:51 pm »

Someone called Chris did a great vis called starfield. I doctored it a bit. Do a search on the plugins forum for Chris and starfield.

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2004, 02:36:54 pm »

It might help to tell the Winamp viz developers what you want.

[edited -- I meant visualizations the first time]

Cindy_B · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:17:35 pm »

Quote from: mrsnarky on January 28, 2004, 01:40:43 pm

Quote from: Matt on January 28, 2004, 01:04:54 pm
Have you played with visualization studio, or tried the 3D visualizations?

That implies that one has some sort of design talent, which I don't have.

The one thing that Winamp has going for it is the massive (and good) collection of visualizations. That's what MC needs.

I totally agree! It's time to give some attention to visuals or at least allow plugin for it.

gpvillamil · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:36:42 pm »

Actually, the vis studio in MC is pretty good. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of momentum around making new visualizations.

Maybe this could change with:

1) Better documentation
2) A contest?

Bryan · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:36:58 pm »

Telling Winamp skin developers to write code for a competitive product is not the solution. I agree, JRiver needs to step up to the plate here and provide what it's customers are repeatedly asking for. Ditto for Flac support.

JimH · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2004, 03:38:53 pm »

We're not going to spend significant time on writing visualizations. Sorry.

I think that MC can use the FLAC plug-in for Winamp. Try a search here.

Bryan · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:04:58 pm »

Yes, I understand.. You have plenty of other things to fix and improve upon. The problem is what users are asking for simply isn't getting done and the other apps have sooooo much better visualzations than MC/MJ. The strategy of driving that development toward users isn't working. That's why it keeps coming back at you. Enough said.. The only thing I can do as a consumer is evaluate and purchase the products that provide what I want.

I know FLAC support is a sore spot so I'll keep this topic short and I don't want to hijack this thread with another subject. Even if the Winamp plugin works for playback, it still doesn't allow me to tag and categorize, or does it? Hell, I'm afraid to run Winamp plugins now.. Considering MC/MJ supports so many more formats than it's competitors, I can't help but wonder if it's the competition thing with APE that makes JRiver reluctant to proceed with full support for FLAC. I love APE but it's falling behind in software and hardware support.

Dont' misunderstand me tho, I appreciate the constant improvement in MC. Keep up the hard work and I'll continue to help test when I can...

jleerigby · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:51:16 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 28, 2004, 02:36:54 pm

It might help to tell the Winamp skin developers what you want.

I keep reading this comment thinking that I must have read it wrong. Maybe I have. Or maybe it's just an unbelieveable response to someone offering genuine feedback.

Doof · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2004, 05:17:22 pm »

Here's the rub...

Winamp has a visualiztion studio to allow users to create their own visualizations based on preset components.

So does MC.

Winamp supports third party visualization plugins.

So does MC (it's there - check the SDK pages).

The reason that Winamp has so many visualizations (both great and not so great) is because the user base has sat down and created them, either using Winamp's visualization studio (AVS Presets I believe they're called) and third party plugins (like Milkdrop and Geiss).

So if you want more and better visualizations like Winamp... get working on it. It's the users who are lagging behind here, not the developers. Granted Winamp's userbase is much much larger, but that's just how it is.

JimH · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2004, 05:41:50 pm »

Why is it unbelievable? Winamp visualization artists also put out work for other apps.

It would help if they had users asking.

KingSparta · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2004, 05:49:00 pm »

I think MJ6 had a bunch (100's of them), since then i feel the amount has went down quite a bit.

it also supported skins with animated Gif's something i have not seen since then.

I think Skinners might not make many because it seems the skinning rules keeps changing.

Another skin i liked alot "Barn Yard Fun" or what ever never to be seen again

Moo

Doof · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:07:05 pm »

Skins are what make MC look different... PixOS is a skin.

Visualizations are those dancing animations that move to the music.

Just wanted to get our definitions all in order...

park · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:12:55 pm »

I would love to see a simple elegant Spectrum Analyzer. The default one in MC reminds me of graphics drawn for old Amstrad computers (no offence

). I changed the colour gradient to black and white and it looks better, but...

The little bars that hover in the main display of Itunes (nothing to do with the "Visualizer") and look like the lcd screen of a stereo are so simple but look sophisticated.

I guess its more difficult to make it look so good when the graphics are a hundred times bigger (like in the display of playing now in MC) but I'd love to see someone have a go.

Also, in Itunes the little bars look better because there is symmety. The bass values for both the channels are next to each other at the centre and the treble is on the outside. The default MC spectrum Analyzer looks like two ski slopes next to each other. You can mirror a channel and then make it fill the whole display but it doesnt look like a spectrum analyser any more. It looks like an audio wave.

I am not technical enough to make what i want to see, but if anyone who reads this would like to have a go, I'd be a happy bunny

(JRiver: I know you're out to make your own distinct product, but those bars look cool sitting in the main display, visible from anywhere in the program. hint hint.)

Bri

Cindy_B · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:30:41 pm »

One thing thats annoying to me is that I can't seem to save a setting for controlling which Visualizations I want to view "shuffle" and which one's I don't want view or to get rid of. Everytime I delete any of the default Visualizations they reapear with the next build.

KingSparta · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:35:25 pm »

Forgive Me Doof

For I Have Not Had A Drink In 6 Months

drosoph · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:48:09 pm »

Help me out here ... but does MC support WinAmp visualizations ? I believe it used to .. or it supports older vis, but not newer or something like that ... Can someone help me out here ..

Cindy_B · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2004, 06:58:07 pm »

Quote from: drosoph on January 28, 2004, 06:48:09 pm

Help me out here ... but does MC support WinAmp visualizations ? I believe it used to .. or it supports older vis, but not newer or something like that ... Can someone help me out here ..

I believe I read a past thread on this, and the plugin doesn't work.

Bryan · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:08:20 pm »

Doof's right.. The HUGE Winamp userbase has done the work.. Then what will it take to get the MC Userbase to do it..? Asking the Winamp users to do it is a waste of time. I've asked, several times. They are like religious Winamp Extremists, even going so far as to post on their own websites *NOT* to ask for them to port to other apps.. etc.. So you see this strategy won't work.

Honestly, if I could code I would be doing it. The learning curve for me would not be feasible. When I took programming classes it was Cobol, Fortran, RPG, IBM Assembly, some Basic but that was way before it became "Visual".

So the question becomes how do you create incentive for folks with the skills to do it.. Maybe offer some compensation. Maybe create a few REALLY good ones to help spur interest... Maybe temporarily hire some of those Winamp viz developers to do it... Expand your userbase...

The problem is that everyone wants them, no one wants to develop them.. Meanwhile other apps have substantially better ones than the best app on the market does... and that totally sucks!

BTW, how do I get the 3D viz's to cycle?

Bryan

Doof · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2004, 07:58:33 pm »

Quote from: Cindy_B on January 28, 2004, 06:30:41 pm

One thing thats annoying to me is that I can't seem to save a setting for controlling which Visualizations I want to view "shuffle" and which one's I don't want view or to get rid of. Everytime I delete any of the default Visualizations they reapear with the next build.

Create your own folder and copy the ones you like into that.

Quote from: KingSparta on January 28, 2004, 06:35:25 pm

Forgive Me Doof

For I Have Not Had A Drink In 6 Months

Well, Jim was doing it too, so I just wanted to clarify. Kind of like all those users at work talking about their "screensavers" when what they're talking about is the desktop wallpaper.

KingSparta · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2004, 08:02:45 pm »

I have some of JimH's Pictures As My Wallpaper.

Don't use Screen Savers.

I never found that they save a screen, and they only thing they normaly do is crash, or keep a program or the system from working normaly.

sdgrizdan · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2004, 10:20:34 pm »

Quote from: Matt on January 28, 2004, 01:04:54 pm

Have you played with visualization studio, or tried the 3D visualizations?

Ive used the 3d Vissuals, and they rock! However, the normal visuals are still lacking, and seem a lot more pixalated than our iTune counterpart. Also, as mentioned in another thread, the visualizations seem a little bit slow these past couple of builds.

Cindy_B · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2004, 10:55:53 pm »

Quote from: sdgrizdan on January 28, 2004, 10:20:34 pm

Quote from: Matt on January 28, 2004, 01:04:54 pm
Have you played with visualization studio, or tried the 3D visualizations?

Ive used the 3d Vissuals, and they rock! However, the normal visuals are still lacking, and seem a lot more pixalated than our iTune counterpart. Also, as mentioned in another thread, the visualizations seem a little bit slow these past couple of builds.

They also don't fade or mix into each other like WinAmp's and other Players.

jleerigby · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2004, 01:06:16 am »

Quote from: JimH on January 28, 2004, 05:41:50 pm

Why is it unbelievable? Winamp visualization artists also put out work for other apps.

It would help if they had users asking.

Good. It did read it wrong. Sorry. I thought you were saying take a hike and use winamp then.

I can understand why JRiver does not have the time to spend on making Vis. Updating the documentation should not take long and might help though.

rocketsauce · « **Reply #26 on:** January 29, 2004, 01:15:33 am »

Quote

The problem is that everyone wants them

Well, not everyone. Of all the features that anyone could spend time on developing for MC, I would have to say visualizations are at the bottom of my list. In fact, they aren't even on my list.

Rob

Cindy_B · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2004, 01:27:07 am »

Quote from: rocketsauce on January 29, 2004, 01:15:33 am

Quote
The problem is that everyone wants them

Well, not everyone. Of all the features that anyone could spend time on developing for MC, I would have to say visualizations are at the bottom of my list. In fact, they aren't even on my list.

Rob

That's too bad.... I've notice that most upgrades and fixes are involving the action window lately. Maybe it's time to move down the list.

Sam · « **Reply #28 on:** January 29, 2004, 01:38:48 am »

Visualization Studio has a set of "patterns" and a set of "effects" (maybe not the right terms), and it allows you to play with many of the parameters in those patterns and effects, and combine them in countless ways. I've played around with it, but I haven't fully explored what's possible.

With the right settings, can you create the kind of visualizations that are on iTunes and Winamp? Or do you need patterns and effects that are not there?

gpvillamil · « **Reply #29 on:** January 29, 2004, 02:10:22 am »

Quote from: Drowbe on January 29, 2004, 01:44:31 am

Somone should send Geiss a free copy of MC, all the tools and documentation, and a basket of fruit.

Or Andy (www.soundspectrum.com), after all he supports MusicMatch!

Cindy_B · « **Reply #30 on:** January 29, 2004, 02:22:17 am »

Quote from: gpvillamil on January 29, 2004, 02:10:22 am

Quote from: Drowbe on January 29, 2004, 01:44:31 am
Somone should send Geiss a free copy of MC, all the tools and documentation, and a basket of fruit.

Or Andy (www.soundspectrum.com), after all he supports MusicMatch!

Yeah!!! MusicMatch visualizations looks a lot like Milkdrop.

G-Force and WhiteCap are both awsome!

jleerigby · « **Reply #31 on:** January 29, 2004, 02:23:51 am »

Good points Thomas. However, if it were possible to use those winamp vis in MC there would not be an issue. I here conflicting reports as to whether it is possible. Can anyone confirm or provide any links?

sdgrizdan · « **Reply #32 on:** January 29, 2004, 09:31:05 am »

Why not include support for WinAmp visualizations?? $:-\$

If this was done, I would be forever grateful ^^

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** January 29, 2004, 09:50:45 am »

We did have Winamp compatibility at one point, but it only worked for simple visualizations. Others may have taken shortcuts.

Geiss came close once, but never did one for MC.

Try contacting the developers of the plugins you like. We'd help fund something.

Tab · « **Reply #34 on:** February 16, 2005, 02:57:27 pm »

http://tabby.i8.com/

Tab

Matt · « **Reply #35 on:** February 16, 2005, 03:13:53 pm »

Quote from: Tab on February 16, 2005, 02:57:27 pm

http://tabby.i8.com/

Tab

That's simply amazing! Wow.

JimH · « **Reply #36 on:** February 16, 2005, 03:14:29 pm »

Anyone who likes visualizations,
If you haven't looked at this, do yourself a favor.

Great job, Tab!

mrsnarky · « **Reply #37 on:** February 16, 2005, 04:45:37 pm »

Tab - Nice!!!

Another source of great visualizations is GForce, from Sound Spectrum (soundspectrum.com). The Gold version is $10, but well worth the price (IMHO).

Tab · « **Reply #38 on:** March 03, 2005, 08:01:27 pm »

10 galleries now:
http://tabby.i8.com/Gallery10.html

LonWar · « **Reply #39 on:** March 03, 2005, 08:44:19 pm »

Amazing work Tab....

When I am downloading I get a 404 page cannot be found for anything after "F"

THanks

Tab · « **Reply #40 on:** October 27, 2006, 02:15:46 am »

Hi everyone

I've added a how to make your own visi - put the data in and you get a new visi. No experience needed. Its on 'how to make a visi' link at the bottom of the old Tabby.i8 site.

have fun
Tab

marko · « **Reply #41 on:** October 27, 2006, 04:17:48 am »

OK, got it now. thanks. dragging the link onto the firefox tab-bar produces the following error:

Quote

Forbidden
Remote Host: [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]

You do not have permission to access http://tabby.i8.com/How_to_make_a_visi.txt

Data files must be stored on the same site they are linked from.

Thank you for using 50megs

Tab · « **Reply #42 on:** October 27, 2006, 11:39:37 pm »

Was that because you didnt go via the homepage Marko?

Tab

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Author Topic: Better Visualizations (Read 8877 times)

jleerigby

jleerigby

jleerigby

jleerigby