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[BlueGlow]

Hi Steve,
After going through similar trials as others I have my iPod synching again. I'm on 11.16? (the about box won't display) and I'm waiting for things to settle a little bit before I move to the next version. I just wanted to point out a couple of little oddities that you may have already taken care of but I haven't seen mentioned:

--Synchronize playlist window repaint - I press the sync button and the synchronize playlist window draws a white box and flickers for 30 sec or so before displaying the normal options.  It looks like the sync playlist checklist is trying to repaint while loading and is slowing things way down.

--Smartlists were wiped out with a previous update.  - Not exactly an iPod issue but my iPod usage is centered around a nicely crafted set of smartlists. When they got cleared I started from scratch. I had a library backup, but it's a pain to cut and paste from every list.
Two questions related to this: 1. Is this section of the code in flux and should I wait a couple of weeks before doing more smartlist work? 2.  Is there any way to backup and restore smartlists to/from a file?

--Long loading/synching pauses with no hourglass- This is a long time issue. No bug here, it would just be nice to have an hourglass when MC is going to spend time talking to my iPod. Without one it looks like MC has frozen.  Please add more hourglass. (or cowbell, whichever)

--Warning dialogs during the sync process - I often start a sync and walk away to do something else. The  warnings about duplicate files, etc. just stop the sync and aren't helpful for me. I'd rather have the sync keep a log and just alert me with a highlighted status label that I can click to see the log.  The log would also be nice to use to verify a good sync if I didn't see it complete. A post-sync dialog box would not be a good substitute since they interfere with other operations if I'm not interested in the information.

Thanks so much for your iPod work!

   BG

[SteveG]

BG,

I press the sync button and the synchronize playlist window draws a white box and flickers for 30...

Are you talking about the tree in the action window that shows the playlists that you can check? If so, is the other text present and not flickering during this time?

In regards to smartlists, these should remain if you have backed up your library.

-Long loading/synching pauses with no hourglass..

There should be messages notifying you of what is going on. I can check this out. Can you give examples of where it appears to sit with no information so I can solve this?

Warning dialogs during the sync process - I often start a sync and walk away to do something else. The  warnings about duplicate files,...

You should only see the duplicate warning right at the beginning of the sync before files actually start transferring. Are you seeing it elsewhere? If so, can you tell me specifically what the error says?

Thanks,

Steve

[wizbang]

Steve,

I'll give you one example of where MC appears to hang i.e. no hourglass.

If I click on "Handheld Player" in the Action Window immediately after I plug in my iPod each night MC seems to hang for 30 to 60 seconds before responding.

If I plug in my iPod and leave it for a minute before clicking on "Handheld Player" MC responds immediately.

[BlueGlow]

Are you talking about the tree in the action window that shows the playlists that you can check? If so, is the other text present and not flickering during this time?

Yes, that's the window.
No text in the window. The 'Synchronize all files' label and checkbox in the bottom border displays but
the window is blank with scroll bars flickering until the text is loaded.
I just tested with a second library I created last week with only 1 playlist and only a few files set to sync.
Using it can still see the window go through the steps but it does them in less than a second.
Also, if I cancel the transfer after clicking Synchronize the transfer list stays in my handheld queue so
the next time I click I see 'Transfer' instead of 'Synchronize'.

[BlueGlow]

There should be messages notifying you of what is going on. I can check this out. Can you give examples of where it appears to sit with no information so I can solve this?

-- Click handheld player, 3 seconds, no visible change, no hourglass
-- Click synchronize,  no hourglass while playlists load

These times are much shorter when I have only one playlist to load but it's still clear that the hourglass cursor is not being displayed during these operations. Also, try these immediately after starting MC, the pauses are also shorter after you've done them once.

[BlueGlow]

You should only see the duplicate warning right at the beginning of the sync before files actually start transferring.

That's the problem dialog. I have a lot of files and playlists so it doesn't display immediately. Even if it did display immediately it would still be an unnecessary annoyance to see it every time I sync.

Are you seeing it elsewhere? If so, can you tell me specifically what the error says?

I'm not seeing that message elsewhere but there was a different error/warning message that displayed near the end of the sync after the files had transferred but before the playlists had transferred. I didn't look at the screen, just grabbed my iPod for my morning jog and found all my playlists were gone.  I don't remember the message, might have been something about one of the files not being found.

[BlueGlow]

11.173 installed.
--Sync playlist window repaint looks fixed, thanks.
--Hourglass still not displaying.
--Transfer queue seems to be cleared ok after canceling sync, thanks.

[BlueGlow]

11.173 installed.
--Sync playlist window repaint looks fixed, thanks.
--Hourglass still not displaying.
--Transfer queue seems to be cleared ok after canceling sync, thanks.

Hmm, I spoke too soon.
The window displays much more quickly (>1sec) but goes through the same steps to draw.  I'm not sure if you made changes or if it is displaying more quickly because I deleted a bunch of bad smarlists that were returning all files.
The transfer queue is not clearing when sync is cancelled. I just didn't have any files ready to sync.

[BlueGlow]

I just found the perfect duplicates warning example.
I've been listening to podcasts lately and the authors don't always use great tags. The NPR show Future Tense sent out two files with duplicate tag information but different file names. Those files give me a warning when I start a sync.

Also, just got another error while synching - this dialog popped up before the sync finished:

Handheld e...
(I) Transfer errors. (1 files)
     (single block character I don't know how to duplicate here)

Click OK, playlists start to sync, then another error:
Handheld error.
(I)  Failed to add playlist 'Podcasts (iPod Playlists-Podcasts)': (1 files)
(the filename of a MOV file in that dir which got imported by accident)

Click OK, playlists finish synching.

[BlueGlow]

The Podcast playlist did show up on my iPod after the sync.

[SteveG]

BG,

Thanks for the posts. I will try to look into these soon.

Steve

[SteveG]

BG.

These fixes are in the next MC build...

 Changed: Wait message should appear while MC gathers information from Portable Devices.

Changed: Wait message should appear while Portable Device Action Window draws playlist tree when necessary.

Fixed: Portable Device Sync queue will prompt to clear queue when AW is closed.

 Fixed: Portable Device playlist tree flickering during draw.

In regards to the file transfer failure, MC is failing to transfer the mov file because it is not supported by iPod. This seems like correct behavior.

In regards to the duplicate warning, MC should notify you of the duplication of tracks that are about to sync and have the same Name, Artist, Album, Genre and Track Number because it cannot resolve multiple files with these fields duplicated.

Steve

[BlueGlow]

These fixes are in the next MC build...
...
Steve

Thanks, Steve!

[BlueGlow]

In regards to the file transfer failure, MC is failing to transfer the mov file because it is not supported by iPod. This seems like correct behavior.

In regards to the duplicate warning, MC should notify you of the duplication of tracks that are about to sync and have the same Name, Artist, Album, Genre and Track Number because it cannot resolve multiple files with these fields duplicated.

Yes, MC should only transfer support files to the iPod. That behavior is perfect. The design point I think could be improved is that these non-fatal warning messages shouldn't interrupt a sync. And these non-fatal errors could be handled more gracefully by continuing when problems are detected and displaying all information dialogs after the sync is totally completed. Yep, moving the dialogs after the sync would largely correct this issue for me.

[BlueGlow]

In regards to the file transfer failure, MC is failing to transfer the mov file because it is not supported by iPod. This seems like correct behavior.
In regards to the duplicate warning, MC should notify you of the duplication of tracks that are about to sync and have the same Name, Artist, Album, Genre and Track Number because it cannot resolve multiple files with these fields duplicated.

Some addtional thoughts--

Wrong File Types:
My iPod doesn't support MOV, JPG, etc. files, of course, but the only reason they ended up in my library at all is because I have no way to tell MC that I don't ever want to import those files. I would like to have that option or it could let me set which file types were allowed for my iPod and ignore any others. Because MC handles so many file types I'm expected to do more work to manage my music files.

Duplicate file tag information:
I didn't know that files with the same tag info but different filenames were considered duplicates.  So, does that mean that if I take those two Future Tense radio shows and add them to two different playlists that Media Center may get them mixed up or the iPod may get them mixed up?


Thanks,
   BG

[JimH]

BG,
MC will import what you tell it to if you choose the advanced option when you import.  You can clear your library and import again.

[BlueGlow]

BG,
MC will import what you tell it to if you choose the advanced option when you import.  You can clear your library and import again.

Hi Jim,
I import early and often. I usually use the explorer shell extension to right click and import a folder and I also use mjextman to auto-import podcasts. These are the most convenient for me and I rarely use the app menu import.

Also, on the subject of "clear your library and import again". I have around 40,000 music files and I use MC's advanced features to add artist and album details, create lot's of special playlists for myself and my family, etc. If I start from scratch I lose all that extra work.

Thanks,
  BG

[BlueGlow]

Hi Steve,

These fixes are in the next MC build...
Changed: Wait message should appear while MC gathers information from Portable Devices.
Changed: Wait message should appear while Portable Device Action Window draws playlist tree when necessary.

Testing with 11.177, no change in behaviour from previous builds. Maybe these fixes are in .178?

Thanks,
  BG

[SteveG]

BG,

The design point I think could be improved is that these non-fatal warning messages shouldn't interrupt a sync....

They should not interrupt the file transfer part of the sync which is the time consuming part of the sync. As far as I can tell, if unsupported file types are included in a sync, MC transfers all the files it can, shows an error with all the failed files and why they failed and then finishes the sync.  The last part of this (after the error and until the conclusion of the sync) should be a relatively small period of time.

My iPod doesn't support MOV, JPG, etc. files, of course, but the only reason they ended up in my library at all is because I have no way to tell MC that I don't ever want to import those files.

You can set MC to not import these filetypes.  I assume you  mean that you want MC to filter these files before doing a transfer to iPod. This could be added, but currently can be accomplished by creating smartlists/playlists that are appropriate for iPod.

So, does that mean that if I take those two Future Tense radio shows and add them to two different playlists that Media Center may get them mixed up or the iPod may get them mixed up?

Yes, if the Name, Artist, Album, Genre, and Track Number are the same. MC and Portables do not use the filename for matching because these will always be different between a Portable and your PC.

Testing with 11.177, no change in behaviour from previous builds. Maybe these fixes are in .178?

They should be there. If not, they should definitely be in 178. If the messages do not appear, I will have to set up a test to duplicate this here.

Steve

[BlueGlow]

They should not interrupt the file transfer part of the sync which is the time consuming part of the sync. As far as I can tell, if unsupported file types are included in a sync, MC transfers all the files it can, shows an error with all the failed files and why they failed and then finishes the sync.  The last part of this (after the error and until the conclusion of the sync) should be a relatively small period of time.

Hi Steve,
>>shows an error ... then finishes the sync.
This is the flow I would like to see modified.  Could you please move the error messages to display after the sync is completed?

The time to finish the sync after the error is very short, however, the sync itself is often long and I often assume the sync was successful and remove the iPod before checking. When I forget to check and one of these warning messages is displayed then I either get no update (dupes error) or my playlists are cleared (invalid file error).

Thanks,
  BG

[BlueGlow]

You can set MC to not import these filetypes.

How do I do that for an mjextman or shell extension right-click import? Those are my preferred methods.

I assume you  mean that you want MC to filter these files before doing a transfer to iPod. This could be added, but currently can be accomplished by creating smartlists/playlists that are appropriate for iPod.

Yes, I would like that feature and it seems it would work best for most users. Though I understand it might not make sense since it could make the underlying code hard to maintain with so many portable media devices on the market now. Currently I modify my smartlists to accomplish this.

Another possble solution would be to have a parent playlist group accept smarlist parameters which provide the base songlist to the child playlists. Again, this would be complex and probably too confusing for the average user. Ah, well, I can keep trying.

Thanks,
  BG

[BlueGlow]

...if the Name, Artist, Album, Genre, and Track Number are the same. MC and Portables do not use the filename for matching because these will always be different between a Portable and your PC.

I was trying to figure out if MC can keep track of the file when the tags are the same but the path+filename is different.  If I use the same tags on two different songs in two different directories will MC get them confused when a portable player is not involved?

If not, would it be possible to send them to the iPod with the names updated (1), (2), (3), etc.?

I'm currently getting a lot of content automatically via podcast downloads and I don't control the tags these producers use. The value goes down if I need to edit the tags before sending them to the iPod.  If MC sent an updated name to the portable that would be a big help. I don't mind that the tags are duplicated. Hell, if MC is confused by the duplicate tags I would love to have it rename the file on import. Anything to make the dupes warning go away.

Thanks,
  BG

[SteveG]

BG,

The move of the file error and filtering of files are features that can potentially be added, but not right now. I do not know about the filetype filter with mjextman or shell extension right click import.

In regards to dupes, MC will not confuse files with the same tag information because each file is assigned a unique ID. This ID is not used by portables because portables are dynamic and one cannot assume that they only function in a MC centered world. That is why the identification of the files is done by tag matching.

Steve

[BlueGlow]

The move of the file error and filtering of files are features that can potentially be added, but not right now.

Thanks for considering the change, Steve. I appreciate you taking the time to discuss non-bug issues when you've probably got plenty of more important things to worry about.

If someone is adding these enhancement suggestions to an issue tracker the error messages are a much higher priority. The current workaround for non-valid files is very usable and may never need to be changed.