Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JimH]

New prices are now in effect.  More information is here:

www.jrmediacenter.com/purchase.html

Originally proposed on June 2

In a nutshell, we've set the new MC11 price at $39.98, lowered both MC10 and MJ8 (to $16.98 and $12.98, respectively), and set the upgrade price to $29.98 (from MJ8, MC9, or MC10).

[Edit]
Final prices after feedback:
In a nutshell, we've set the new MC11 price at $40, lowered both MC10 and MJ8 (to $18 and $14, respectively), and set the upgrade price to $26 (from MJ8, MC9, or MC10).

Thanks for the feedback.

[Pink Waters]

I think its a big jump in the price, as for example in the upgrade price is almost doubled!

[JimH]

The upgrade price tripled, but the price of both MJ8 and MC10 dropped.  And the $10 upgrade was good only during beta, to help compensate for the pains that some people felt.

[GHammer]

Fair pricing for all but the upgrade from MC 10, which should be much lower in my opinion.

[Pink Waters]

i think the upgrade price have to be lower cause for me as example i will stick to every new version as it starts in development, or you may make another idea like making the upgrade from the latest previous version of MC has a special upgrade offer or price, and that step will be very good for people who always upgrade as soon as a new version is released.

[UnknownID]

Fair pricing for all but the upgrade from MC 10, which should be much lower in my opinion.

Though I find it hard to place a price on an invaluable piece software, I'm in agreement with having MC10's upgrade price different from the rest.

Something with progressive system might be something to consider. For example:
MC11: $40
MC10: $20 (upgrade to 11: $20)
MC09: $15 (upgrade to 11: $25)
MJ08: $10 (upgrade to 11: $30)
[/s]

See below
UnknownID

[LonWar]

I don't think that someone that is upgrading from the previos version should pay the same as someone that is upgrading from 8 or 9....

Other then that, I think it's fair.

[JustinChase]

Well, I think it's a quite fair price for what you get.

Maybe it should be cheaper to upgrade from a recent version, maybe not.

Now, here's to hoping the early upgrade price for v12 is CHEAP, again!

[KingSparta]

I Think If You Go From MJ8 To MC11 It Should Be Called "SUPER SIZE ME"

Upgrade: From\To

MJ08 To MC11 $30
MC09 To MC11 $25
MC10 to MC11 $20

[pank2002]

New prices are now in effect.  More information is here:

www.jrmediacenter.com/purchase.html

In a nutshell, we've set the new MC11 price at $39.98, lowered both MC10 and MJ8 (to $16.98 and $12.98, respectively), and set the upgrade price to $29.98 (from MJ8, MC9, or MC10).

This hasn't been publicly announced anywhere else yet, so please feel free to advise us on what you think about the changes.

Prices are fine, IMO. But why USD 39.98 rather than USD 40? Keep It Simple!

[lee269]

Hmmm, difficult, this sort of thing. I cant remember how much MC10 originally cost but my gut instinct is to agree with others that the upgrade price from 10 should be lower. IIRC 10 was the first to introduce image cataloguing so its fair to charge more to upgrade from 8 and 9.

As an aside, I know the psychology, but why not whole numbers? In fact why not .99 instead of .98? This drives me mad in shops. I know its not an issue with non-cash payments, but... grrrr.

[EDIT: pank, you beat me to it!]

[glynor]

I actually disagree with most of the posters in this thread (no big surprise there).

I think a multi-tiered upgrade pricing scheme, like those suggested, would only serve to confuse customers, and could potentially alienate "less up-to-date users".   For example, I can picture a MJ8 user thinking "Isn't my upgrade business just as valuable as a user who bought MC10 originally?"  Maybe those MJ8 and MC9 users are actually more valuable, because they have probably been using the product for a longer period of time and are therefore more prone to future business.

More importantly though, it doesn't "match" consumer expectations.  Most software companies do not have multi-tiered pricing for upgrades.  You either qualify or you don't.  For example:  Adobe Photoshop CS2 upgrade costs $149.00 if you are upgrading from version CS or from version 5.5 (or version 1 even).  Same with Windows.  Even though the difference between XP and 98/NT4 is far more drastic than the difference between XP and 2000, the upgrade price is the same.

I can certainly see the benefit to us (the dedicated users) for a multi-tiered upgrade pricing scheme, but I don't see the benefit to JRiver I guess...  But how many of us, the forum "regulars", haven't already upgraded to 11?

As far as the overall pricing ... As I've said before, I feel it is more than fair.  To me, MC is certainly worth the cost by leaps and bounds.

On a side note, one thing I might consider would be a "switch" campaign pricing offer.  The logistics of it might be too difficult, but it's worth considering...  Offer the upgrade pricing to MusicMatch Jukebox (paid version) and RealPlayer (paid) users?  When I initially evaluated MJ7 I liked it, but I had only recently purchased another player application and couldn't justify the additional cost.  You might have gotten me then, had you offered a deal like that (where my previous expenditure wouldn't have been a complete waste).

Prices are fine, IMO. But why USD 39.98 rather than USD 40? Keep It Simple!

Oh, and I've got to agree on this.  Drives me nutso too...

[Pink Waters]

maybe 39.99 says "look here iam cheap" better 

[UnknownID]

I actually disagree with most of the posters in this thread (no big surprise there).

I think a multi-tiered upgrade pricing scheme, like those suggested, would only serve to confuse customers, and could potentially alienate "less up-to-date users".   For example, I can picture a MJ8 user thinking "Isn't my upgrade business just as valuable as a user who bought MC10 originally?"  Maybe those MJ8 and MC9 users are actually more valuable, because they have probably been using the product for a longer period of time and are therefore more prone to future business.

More importantly though, it doesn't "match" consumer expectations.  Most software companies do not have multi-tiered pricing for upgrades.  You either qualify or you don't.  For example:  Adobe Photoshop CS2 upgrade costs $149.00 if you are upgrading from version CS or from version 5.5 (or version 1 even).  Same with Windows.  Even though the difference between XP and 98/NT4 is far more drastic than the difference between XP and 2000, the upgrade price is the same.

I can certainly see the benefit to us (the dedicated users) for a multi-tiered upgrade pricing scheme, but I don't see the benefit to JRiver I guess...  But how many of us, the forum "regulars", haven't already upgraded to 11?

As far as the overall pricing ... As I've said before, I feel it is more than fair.  To me, MC is certainly worth the cost by leaps and bounds.

You make a great point here and I agree, so I changed my answer above.

Additionally, I upgraded to 11 for $10 and later I felt bad since $10 didn't seem to be adequate compensation for what I was upgrading to (beta or not). I wanted to start a topic about additional donations, but I thought it would get ignored. Overall the prices for upgrading should be greater for JRiver's sake, but it is their decision.

On a side note, one thing I might consider would be a "switch" campaign pricing offer. The logistics of it might be too difficult, but it's worth considering... Offer the upgrade pricing to MusicMatch Jukebox (paid version) and RealPlayer (paid) users? When I initially evaluated MJ7 I liked it, but I had only recently purchased another player application and couldn't justify the additional cost. You might have gotten me then, had you offered a deal like that (where my previous expenditure wouldn't have been a complete waste).

I want to post my vote for this as well. Validating the purchase from the other companies might pose a problem, but if it was possible to keep track the campaign could bring in many more users.

Prices are fine, IMO. But why USD 39.98 rather than USD 40? Keep It Simple!

Ditto!

UnknownID

[lee269]

On reflection, Im inclined to go with glynors well-argued post for flat rate upgrades and a 'switch' offer. Ill stick with my initial, totally unscientific, reaction that an MC10 upgrade is expensive compared to the others, so I guess Im suggesting a slightly lower flat rate. However, as glynor said you are probably preaching to the converted somewhat in this thread - I upgraded to beta 11 for the lower price a long time ago. Im sure that you have information (% of sales that upgrade etc) and your prices are not finger-in-the-air guesses.

Whatever you do I suspect that you will get some recent MC10 users complaining about the upgrade price (I think there was one already), and there are many arguments to be had there. Some may even have a case. But Im sure we've all bought something and then seen it cheaper/newer/better in the shops a week later.

[modelmaker]

I generally agree with glynor and a flat rate with one exception: Give those that purchased a previous version 60 days to upgrade at a discount from the flat rate. This would give people an incentive to upgrade and also not feel bad about purchasing the "older" version, (buyer's remorse).

I've been around here long enough to know that I'll get the best price if I purchase early, but I waited until just a month ago or so, when it seemed MC11 was getting near release and most of the bugs had been worked out, to actually install MC 11 and register it. I mentioned a long while ago in the 9.x days that I don't want to be a beta testor, I just want to use the software.

[Havana]

Are you kidding me?  Thirty dollars for to upgrade from v10 - v11?  Forget it.  It was stated earlier that the upgrade price would be $15 after the beta testing.  I waited because at the time I really could not justify spending any money superfluously.  I know $10 for most isn't a lot, but at the time I needed every penny.  Now that I'm in a much better financial situation, I was considering the $15 upgrade price upon the release of v11.  There is no excuse for false advertising.  That's what that was, and no one can convince me otherwise.

[Havana]

Some may even have a case. But Im sure we've all bought something and then seen it cheaper/newer/better in the shops a week later.

That's just not valid.  They themselves stated that the upgrade price would be $15.00.  They stated it, not some store.

[Stef]

Hi,

I bought MC10 not long ago and last month i've downloaded MC11 to look at it. Today my trial periode expired so i've spend the last hour trying to find out how to upgrade for the 10$ that i think was a reasonable price. I've just learned that the 10$ upgrade periode is over

I think 29.99$ is to expensive for an upgrade when i paid 25$ 6 month ago...

I'll probably end up paying for the upgrade. It's just that i should have bought the MC11 beta instead and pay only once...

[John Gateley]

Hi Havana,

Sorry you're disappointed, we try to please but can't always be successful. I'm not on top of what prices we may have talked about before, but I do know that things are always in a state of flux. Just as the phrase "they themselves" strikes me as odd (because it's us here too, not just you users ), the phrase "false advertising" also doesn't ring true because we are not advertising here - we're soliciting input, talking about bugs, future plans, and the weather.

Hope you understand

j

[Havana]

Just as the phrase "they themselves" strikes me as odd (because it's us here too, not just you users ), the phrase "false advertising" also doesn't ring true because we are not advertising here - we're soliciting input, talking about bugs, future plans, and the weather.

The "they themselves" was directed towards another user, not the development team.  So, therefore, not an odd statement.  Advertising, whatever, it's symantics.  If the developers post a statement declaring the the upgrade from 10-11 will be $15 on their forums, it is a form of advertising - however it rings.  If anything "rings false" it is your statement that "you are not on top of the prices".  So, here's your input.

[ama_mmmc]

I recall in a search about something completly different I read a post that said something about version 10 users may get the $ price, but now I can't find it.  I think that someone else may think of words to search for that I can't remember.  Overall, the message was that the prices were not set in stone and the release price might increase

[kaiynne]

I think that you could have saved some trouble by warning people of the impending price change.  At the same time, I was under the impression that the $10 upgrade fee was an incentive for people to be beta testers.  So someone like myself who has tried almost every release of mc11 and tried to contribute a little bit to its development is entitled to the cheap upgrade price.  Whereas someone who waited until this week to upgrade really didn't contribute anything to the development effort, and shouldn't really qualify for the cheap upgrade price because of their non participation.  If that is the case then telling people a week in advance that the prices would be changing wouldn't be a great idea, but by changing to release candidate rather than beta people ought to have know that the cheap upgrade price wasn't likely to last anyway.

[GHammer]

I was under the impression that the $10 upgrade fee was an incentive for people to be beta testers.

I agree with this 100%.

I test lots of stuff. I am connected to the 'Net via a nice D-Link 624-S wireless router. Price? $0, because I tested. My antivirus is free for a year because I test for them. And so on. Even MS is giving XP-64 to the testers.

So, 'buying' an alpha, following it through beta, giving feedback, it is worth something. In this case a healthy discount over the release price.

I still think that the upgrade from the most recent version to the newest should be cheaper, but then again, it isn't my app to price!

[GHammer]

That's just not valid.  They themselves stated that the upgrade price would be $15.00.  They stated it, not some store.

I'm sure the original post said "Prices subject to change".
And you will note the asterisk.

Snooze/lose.


Re:Media Center 11 Prices
Quote from: JimH on August 31, 2004, 04:17:18 AM
                                                                Now                 Final Release*

Upgrade from MC 10                                   $10                   $15

[Havana]

I have absolutely no problem with the argument that beta testers deserve a lower price.  I do have issues with the $15 price.  Oh, and about the asterisk, so what?  The price difference is twice now.  Snooze/loose - see my original post before being childish and asinine GHammer.

[GHammer]

I have absolutely no problem with the argument that beta testers deserve a lower price.  I do have issues with the $15 price.  Oh, and about the asterisk, so what?  The price difference is twice now.  Snooze/loose - see my original post before being childish and asinine GHammer.

I did. The prices were subject to change.
You're the one running off on a 'false advertisement' tangent.

[dasymington]

New prices are now in effect.  More information is here:

www.jrmediacenter.com/purchase.html

In a nutshell, we've set the new MC11 price at $39.98, lowered both MC10 and MJ8 (to $16.98 and $12.98, respectively), and set the upgrade price to $29.98 (from MJ8, MC9, or MC10).

This hasn't been publicly announced anywhere else yet, so please feel free to advise us on what you think about the changes.

The link is very confusing: when you click on the version 11 $39.98 link you go to a page that says "Media Center 11 can now be purchased from the Help section of the program. The price is $45.00. " So which is it?

Dave

[JimH]

It's $39.98 and that's what you should see when you actually purchase.  If not, don't finish the purchase.

There are still a few web page errors to correct.

[glynor]

The link is very confusing: when you click on the version 11 $39.98 link you go to a page that says "Media Center 11 can now be purchased from the Help section of the program. The price is $45.00. " So which is it?

This is right.  The Media Center Purchase FAQ needs to be updated to reflect the correct pricing.

GHammer, I agree completely.  And JRiver certainly didn't false advertize.  Jim's posting always said:

Prices are subject to change without notice.  For more complete information, please visit:

www.jrmediacenter.com/purchase.html

Always.

[JimH]

Gentlemen, Ladies, Spotted Dogs....

Most of the posts here are very helpful, but there are a few people who've chosen to leap right to accusation, skipping the simple stage of question and answer.

We're sincerely soliciting feedback.  You may be surprised what can happen.

Finally, pricing is not easy.  There are many factors.  The price has to position the product, hold up for a long time, be generally fair to as many people as possible, and encourage people to do the right thing (buy MC11).

We'd also like to be fairly paid for our work.

Jim

[Irockmecca]

I think its a matter of perspective.  I pay about $40 for 12 golf balls that will last me maybe 2 months.  So spending $40 for software that I use EVERY DAY and that I have been using for years, not months, seems like its worth it.

When I was a poor, starving undergrad, I would never spend $40 on software like this.  I wouldnt have owned an Ipod or a computer either...

[glynor]

Ladies and...

Gentlemen,

 

[IanG]

Finally, pricing is not easy.  There are many factors.  The price has to position the product, hold up for a long time, be generally fair to as many people as possible, and encourage people to do the right thing (buy MC11).

We'd also like to be fairly paid for our work.

No argument with that!  The price seems reasonable, but you have to do a lot of digging to find out what you're getting for your money - even a 30 day trial isn't enough to get your head around what MC's capable of.  Perhaps the website should borrow a leaf from MicroSoft and have a "What do you want to do today?" page, hierarchicaly listing the functions and linking them to more details, instructions or whatever.  

Ian G.

[JimH]

Ladies and...

 

Thanks.

[dasymington]

It's $39.98 and that's what you should see when you actually purchase.  If not, don't finish the purchase.

Must buy it now before it goes up again!

[Madcow]

My personal feeling is that the difference in price between MC10 and MC11 is too great, given the difference between the programs (not a lot, in my opinion).

MC10 does 95% of what I use MC11 for, and as a new user, if I had the chance to try them both before buying, I'd probably think MC11 was bad value at double the price of the old version.

As a beta testing addict, of course, I thought the upgrade price I paid was very reasonable and I've had months of fun breaking MC11 in new and amusing ways during the development process.  But for new users, the leap in price for what seems to be a very incremental upgrade might seem quite harsh.

[dasymington]

MC10 does 95% of what I use MC11 for, and as a new user, if I had the chance to try them both before buying, I'd probably think MC11 was bad value at double the price of the old version.

For me, the UPnP support, split view and customisable view make MC11 worthwhile. I just hope it doesn't go the way of MusicMatch, which I bought a few years ago but am now very disappointed with the latest versions.

[glynor]

My personal feeling is that the difference in price between MC10 and MC11 is too great, given the difference between the programs (not a lot, in my opinion).

MC10 does 95% of what I use MC11 for, and as a new user, if I had the chance to try them both before buying, I'd probably think MC11 was bad value at double the price of the old version.

(Emphasis added.)

I would definately not say that the difference between the programs is minor.  It may be that you don't use many of the new features, but that doesn't mean they're not there or that they're not valuable.

For example... How many people paid to upgrade to Windows XP but still use a FAT32 partition on their hard drive? Does this mean NTFS isn't valuable or a reasonable feature that Microsoft can base pricing on?

Also, the price isn't double what MC used to cost... When MC9 was "the new version" it was priced at $39.98.  Now, it is an old version so it's cheaper.  Same for MC10 (the Wayback engine didn't have an archive of the site from then).

One thing JRiver does different than most software companies (and I think it's a quite nice thing to do) is that when a new version of their product comes out, they continue to sell and support the older software for a time, and they reduce the price.  I don't know why you'd want to, but you can still buy Windows ME for it's original full price.  At least they discount old versions of MC...

[Havana]

Feedback is what I gave, albeit in a tone that could have been a little less casutic.  Anyways, for purely feedback purposes and in a more constructive tone, the new prices, in my opinion, are too high.  $20 maybe, but not $30.

[JimH]

Tone matters.  Thanks for everyone's feedback.  Here's what we'll do:

MC11                     40 
Upgrade from MJ or MC10       26

MJ                      14  (upgrade for 26 to MC11)
MC10                     18  (upgrade for 26 to MC11)

[bytestar]

I wanted to thank you again you Jim,

THANKS 

Regards,

bytestar

[Pink Waters]

upgrade can't be reduced to $20 ?
anyway i will upgrade

[Omni]

I know I'll get a lot of grief for this from my fellow MC comrades (based on the above sentiments about this), but I think JRiver should go back to the $xx.98 pricing scheme.

Let's face it--market research for decades has shown that most consumers are a silly (and most times not too keen) breed, and seeing something on sale in a lower price bracket, even if only by a penny, does influence his or her propensity to make the purchase, even if only subconsciously.

The point is that this practice certainly would not deter from sales, but would only increase them.  And the more sales Jim makes, the happier he is; and the happier he is, the happier we are, right?   Seriously, though, Jim is running a business, and we should understand that those silly $xx.99 pricing schemes (that every business makes a practice of!) is just the way things work in the consumer market.

[escaflo]

I would say that the new pricing is fair and it is worth every penny of it.

No other media players has been able to drag me away from Media Center. Itunes? ppphhttt.... didn't even bother to download it.

Keep up the good work JRiver and you will continue to have my support!

[KingSparta]

Let's face it--market research for decades has shown that most consumers are a silly

In life you run into all types of people (for better or worse)

[lee269]

Omni, why not xx.97 to undercut all those 98ers out there?

In the UK Marks & Spencer (a large high st retailer) has used round numbers for some years. Although their latest performance suggests they maybe should revert to .99, so there goes my argument.

Anyway, whatever...

Havana quoted me about disgruntled updaters missing out on the $10. I wasnt disputing that some may have a case for disgruntlement, just saying that its the way it is. Its also a byproduct of JRiver 'open' beta system. For lots of software, most users would see nothing until the next version comes out (sure, maybe with discount for early adopters, or maybe not). Again, thats  just the way it is. Im not taking a position. I guess if JRiver emailed all registered MC10 users with an upgrade offer we'd see spam accusations on the forum.

Again, whatever... At least we have an example of a company listening to its customers here.

[tcman41]

Wow, can't really understand people complaining about the price.

MC11 is a vast improvement over MC10, whats $26 to upgrade, i make that in one hour. I use the software everyday, have my huge collection of music on it all organized by genre and shown visually enhanced via album art. I use it to rip discs, tag mp3's, produce jewel case art and sync to my nomad player.

I only use the audio components of the software but still think it's worth the price. In the future i will probably also use it to organize my vast picture collection and watch some concert videos that i am now starting to collect.

Like the guinness commericals on tv right now, BRILLANT!

TC

[KingSparta]

whats $26 to upgrade, i make that in one hour.

Since Media Center Users Are From All Walks Of Life.

Some People Don't Make That In A Month (Like In Iraq) some people Grind Flower With A Big Stone In The Front Yard Where The Oxe Is Tied Up.

So to some it is alot of money

As A Side Note I Just Bought The Movie "Team America, World Police" (From Best Buy) To Watch With My Wife This Weekend.

[GHammer]

some people Grind Flower With A Big Stone In The Front Yard Where The Oxe Is Tied Up.

So to some it is alot of money

Hey! I'll have you know that the ox is no longer in the front yard. Big celebration last weekend...

To me, $40 is a large percentage of my income. But I took advantage of the alpha pricing because it had features that I was interested in and I don't mind testing.

Overall, I'm pretty happy with MC. Is there this or that I'd rather see done differently? Yep. Do I use this as my day to day player? Yep. Will I upgrade to MC 12? Show me what will be improved and we'll see.