Topic: Client that doesn't require installation (Read 13599 times)

Jaqqe · « **on:** July 02, 2005, 04:01:08 am »

I think I asked for this some time ago, but here I go again:

Wouldn't it be great if MC had a client exe-file that could be burned to CD and run from the CD to connect to Media Servers without having to install anything on the computer in use. This would allow using MC on workplace computers and when visiting with friends etc.

Any such plans ?

KingSparta · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2005, 07:03:53 am »

i would say the anser to your question is no.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2005, 07:45:02 am »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 02, 2005, 07:03:53 am

i would say the anser to your question is no.

But still, am I really the only one who thinks that such a file would be great?

IanG · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2005, 08:46:30 am »

Quote from: Jaqqe on July 02, 2005, 04:01:08 am

This would allow using MC on workplace computers and when visiting with friends etc.

Unless I've misunderstood the licence Ts & Cs, you can install MC on your workplace computer already.

Ian G.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2005, 09:23:32 am »

Quote from: IanG on July 02, 2005, 08:46:30 am

Unless I've misunderstood the licence Ts & Cs, you can install MC on your workplace computer already.
Ian G.

Yes, this is true, but my workplace policy is not that flexible :-)

KingSparta · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2005, 10:42:44 am »

Jaqqe your avatar is not showing up

http://www.jarkonsivut.com/_img/pugavatar.jpg

Jaqqe · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2005, 12:55:21 am »

Quote from: KingSparta on July 02, 2005, 10:42:44 am

Jaqqe your avatar is not showing up
http://www.jarkonsivut.com/_img/pugavatar.jpg

Thanks, have to check that later.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2006, 09:04:34 pm »

Let's bump the client idea (but not the avatar issue...)

Pretty please, with sugar on top?

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2006, 09:22:45 pm »

Have you seen this post?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=31356.0

It's still under development, but from what I've
tried so far, really impressed

Jaqqe · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2006, 10:07:45 pm »

Managed to miss that one, but thanks! I'll have to try it out.

Alex B · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2006, 05:32:31 pm »

OddcastV3 Standalone can receive audio from MC (or any other player) and send it to a local Shoutcast or Icecast server that can broadcast it to the Internet. All these are free and don't need any third party connections.

You can control MC over LAN or WAN with the built-in Remote Server (Options > Startup > Run remote server on port: xxxxx)

I am doing it just now on my LAN. I control the source MC with IE and listen to the broadcast with a standard WMP.

If the remote server is accessed through Internet it is good to pick a port that is not commonly used and open only that and the south/icecast port in the firewall. You can check what ports are not known to be used here: www.grc.com.

runemail · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2006, 05:53:13 pm »

I know this is slighly OT but:

The last.fm radio is pretty amazing, you can set up your own custom channels with your favorite music, and share them with your friends without using your own bandwith. Or you can check out some of the many thousands other channels allready there.
I have about 20 custom channels on my profile...

Alex B · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2006, 06:58:06 pm »

BTW, I would like to repeat this old request:

The Remote Server is very functional, but it doesn't look attractive.

The page design could contain some colors and basic graphical elements. Then it would look more like a website. Also, Playing Now could have a cover art display or at least an additional link to the file info (I noticed that the file info already has a cover art display).

Actually, it would be nice if the page design part (XML/HTML?) could be separate from the RemoteServer.dll file. Then users would be able to make their own designs and share them here too.

Also, a password-protected login would be good to have.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:10:50 am »

Quote from: Alex B on January 22, 2006, 05:32:31 pm

I am doing it just now on my LAN. I control the source MC with IE and listen to the broadcast with a standard WMP.

WMP = Windows Media Player?

One of my biggest problems with this, is that My computer does not have WinAmp or anything else related to music that the Windows media Player. It is not possible to install anything either, since the rules are quite strict on these issues.

If it works with Media player, I'll have to gove it a try. I didn't really understand at all how it works, but I'll have to look into it on my next day off.

Alex B · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:52:17 am »

The output is a standard web radio stream. If you try the SouthCast server, the output is similar with the stations listed here: http://www.shoutcast.com/

WMP is Windows Media Player. Also, you could try any other player that can be run from a CD without installing it, like Winamp 2.95 or older. Winamp 2.95 is available e.g. here: http://www.oldversion.com/.

I can help you with the details, just fire your questions. Here is some info about setting up the ShoutCast server: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24691.0. At that time I didn't use OddCast, which makes Winamp unnecessary on the server side.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2006, 08:18:07 am »

Quote from: Alex B on January 28, 2006, 07:52:17 am

I can help you with the details, just fire your questions. Here is some info about setting up the ShoutCast server: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=24691.0. At that time I didn't use OddCast, which makes Winamp unnecessary on the server side.

OK, so this would allow me to stream whatever is playing on my MC at home (which is ok as long as my wife is not playing her country music at the time), but it would still not give me what I really am after: The possibility to browse and play my library remotely from work and play whatever song I choose whenever I choose and for however long time I choose. Right?

Alex B · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2006, 08:44:03 am »

Quote from: Jaqqe on January 28, 2006, 08:18:07 am

OK, so this would allow me to stream whatever is playing on my MC at home (which is ok as long as my wife is not playing her country music at the time), but it would still not give me what I really am after: The possibility to browse and play my library remotely from work and play whatever song I choose whenever I choose and for however long time I choose. Right?

You would be able to control the stream. You would remotely use two programs:

- a player program that plays whatever your private web radio station broadcasts.

- a standard webbrowser that shows an html page of your audio library. This one controls what your station broadcasts. The page is produced and updated by the MC's built-in Remote Server.

You should be able to connect the Remote Server on the same PC with this address: http://127.0.0.1:(the port number here)

Jaqqe · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:16:14 am »

So if I were to try this, I would need to install OddcastV3 Standalone and Shoutcast on my homecomputer? Then get these two talking somehow? Then Winamp 2.95 and web browser on my work computer? Then library server eunning on home computer. Then connect with IP to home with Winamp from work? What was the browsers function in this?

Jaqqe · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:23:21 am »

I think I got the shoutcast instasllation:

Quote from: Shoutcast website

In order to broadcast to a running SHOUTcast server, you will need the SHOUTcast Source for Winamp 2.x DSP Plug-in, a piece of software which adds SHOUTcast broadcast ability to the Winamp 2.x software. The DSP Plug-in acts as a bridge between your Winamp software and a SHOUTcast DNAS server (which you or a friend need to be running to broadcast). To obtain the latest copy of the plugin, please click here. [filesize - 503k] Instructions are included with the installer.

"SHOUTcast DNAS server" would in this case be the MC library server, right? And where is the Oddcast needed again... Me confused... not at all... ?

Alex B · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:38:14 am »

Does this help?

Quote

In order to broadcast to a running SHOUTcast server, you will need the SHOUTcast Source for Winamp 2.x DSP Plug-in, a piece of software which adds SHOUTcast broadcast ability to the Winamp 2.x software. The DSP Plug-in acts as a bridge between your Winamp software and a SHOUTcast DNAS server (which you or a friend need to be running to broadcast). To obtain the latest copy of the plugin, please click here. [filesize - 503k] Instructions are included with the installer.

Oddcast Standalone replaces the "Winamp program with SHOUTcast Source DSP plug-in" part.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #20 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:51:22 am »

More than a thousand words, but...
Shoutcast server, if it's not the plugin for winamp, then what is it?

Alex B · « **Reply #21 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:56:24 am »

More info: http://www.shoutcast.com/download/serve.phtml

DL link: http://www.shoutcast.com/downloads/sc1-9-5/shoutcast-1-9-5-windows.exe

Jaqqe · « **Reply #22 on:** January 28, 2006, 11:00:19 am »

I'll be home working on this in 2 hours time... Can't wait.

I'm pretty sure I will have further questions... ?

Jaqqe · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2006, 01:38:07 pm »

1) What is the difference of having
a) Tools -> Options -> Startup -> Run remote server on port: <port> or
b) Starting from Services & Plugins -> Library Server and putting port <port> there?

2) I have option 1a running and Oddcast can hear the music ok and I have autoconnect on here, so this is ok.

3) Any user can now connect to my computer by putting my ip and correct port number in browser address field. Can I not password protect this? Or is it supposet to work like this?

4) If everything was ok, should I not be able to connect with Media Player to http://<ip>:<port> by selecting File -> Open URL... ? Other user could not connect and I could not connect with 127.0.0.1:<port>

5) I think I'll have to wait until next week when I can bring my work laptop home and test this again having both computers here...

Alex B · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2006, 03:34:54 pm »

Quote from: Jaqqe on January 28, 2006, 01:38:07 pm

1) What is the difference of having
a) Tools -> Options -> Startup -> Run remote server on port: <port> or
b) Starting from Services & Plugins -> Library Server and putting port <port> there?

1) a) Remote Server is what is needed. It runs a web server that provides a simplified remote access user interface. It doesn't share files.

1) b) Library Server shares the actual media library. The client MC downloads a temporary copy of the complete media library on connect. The filenames are translated to streaming addresses and any kind of permanent write access is not possible. This server is not needed for what we are trying to accomplish.

Quote

2) I have option 1a running and Oddcast can hear the music ok and I have autoconnect on here, so this is ok.

Oddcast does not connect MC. It grabs the decoded audio signal after MC (from the OS level audio driver). It uses LAME for encoding that signal and streams it to the Shoutcast server. I suppose you mean that.

Quote

3) Any user can now connect to my computer by putting my ip and correct port number in browser address field. Can I not password protect this? Or is it supposet to work like this?

As I said earlier the Remote Server does not have a password protection. It should have. It is possible that someone connects to your MC and plays your wife's country music.

Quote

4) If everything was ok, should I not be able to connect with Media Player to http://<ip>:<port> by selecting File -> Open URL... ? Other user could not connect and I could not connect with 127.0.0.1:<port>

127.0.0.1 is your PCs internal address. You can use it only on the same PC. You can also try the real IP address locally. I meant that you can use this address for trying the web browser connection to your local MC's Remote Server.

My Remote Server uses the port 9696. I can connect it on the same PC with a web browser address htpp://127.0.0.1:9696 or htpp://192.168.0.15:9696 (this one is the real address of my PC). Only the latter can be used on other PCs on my LAN.

For connecting the Shoutcast server with a player program you need to use a different port (the default is 8000). Try Winamp v.2.95 if other programs cannot connect.

Quote

5) I think I'll have to wait until next week when I can bring my work laptop home and test this again having both computers here...

... and we have not yet talked about opening or redirecting ports in the firewall and what to do if your employer allows only the ports 80 and 81 for http connections. BTW what kind of Firewall you use at home?

Jaqqe · « **Reply #25 on:** January 28, 2006, 10:05:53 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on January 28, 2006, 03:34:54 pm

1) a) Remote Server is what is needed. It runs a web server that provides a simplified remote access user interface. It doesn't share files.

2) Oddcast does not connect MC. It grabs the decoded audio signal after MC (from the OS level audio driver). It uses LAME for encoding that signal and streams it to the Shoutcast server. I suppose you mean that.

3) As I said earlier the Remote Server does not have a password protection. It should have. It is possible that someone connects to your MC and plays your wife's country music.

4)127.0.0.1 is your PCs internal address. You can use it only on the same PC. You can also try the real IP address locally. I meant that you can use this address for trying the web browser connection to your local MC's Remote Server.

5) For connecting the Shoutcast server with a player program you need to use a different port (the default it is 8000). Try Winamp v.2.95 if other programs cannot connect.

6) ... and we have not yet talked about opening or redirecting ports in the firewall and what to do if your employer allows only the ports 80 and 81 for http connections.

7) BTW what kind of Firewall you use at home?

1) Ok

2) Yes, that's what I mean. I can se in the whatever-meter (horizontal lines moving) that it hears the music

3) So anyone can configure the playlist and anyone can listen to it without limitation, if they know the IP and the used port number?

4) I know about 127.0.0.1. Have tried both real IP and 127.0.0.1 but can not connect with Media Player. Will try WinAmp also.

5) So for connecting with browser I use the port set in MC settings and for connection with player, I use port 8000 ?

6) Sounds yammy... Seems that a port number in the high thousands (not 8080) is also allowed.

7) I have ZoneLabs free ZoneAlarm

Jaqqe · « **Reply #26 on:** January 28, 2006, 11:13:28 pm »

Can not connect with Winamp 2.95 with <IP> or with <IP>:8000 (Play -> Location) from work. Winamp says "timed out". I'll have to try this from home also to see if problem is in shoutcast server settings.

However the media server can be seen from work fine. I can modify the files playing on MC at home. Hope I left the amp off when I left for work this morning... ;-)

Alex B · « **Reply #27 on:** January 29, 2006, 09:45:58 am »

Quote from: Jaqqe on January 28, 2006, 10:05:53 pm

7) I have ZoneLabs free ZoneAlarm

I have not recently used ZoneAlarm, but if I recall correctly ZA can actually keep outsiders out. Just add your work computer's external IP to the trusted zone. Also, ZA must be configured to allow your PC to act as a server in the trusted zone. XP's integrated firewall should be disabled when using ZA.

BTW, I have assumed that your internet connection at home has a public and permanent IP address that don't change (i.e use DHCP) and that you can handle port forwarding if a NAT router is used. Is this the case?

Jaqqe · « **Reply #28 on:** January 29, 2006, 10:01:09 am »

Quote from: Alex B

I have not recently used ZoneAlarm, but if I recall correctly ZA can actually keep outsiders out. Just add your work computer's external IP to the trusted zone.

I'll to try this. Hmm... I'm not sure about this trusted zone thing. I have had for example FTP server and it worked ok without adding anything to trusted zone. Internet zone was enough.

Quote from: Alex B

Also, ZA must be configured to allow your PC to act as a server in the trusted zone. XP's integrated firewall should be disabled when using ZA.

It is acting as a server (well the server programs are). XP firewall is off.

Quote from: Alex B

BTW, I have assumed that your internet connection at home has a public and permanent IP address that don't change (i.e use DHCP) and that you can handle port forwarding if a NAT router is used. Is this the case?

Public yes, static no. Is this absolutely neccessary? About port forwarding and NAT I have no idea...

Jaqqe · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2006, 11:41:06 am »

Not able to connect with Winamp 2.95 from same computer where MC is...

Here's what ShoutCast tells me, when I start it:

Event log:
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [SHOUTcast] DNAS/win32 v1.9.5 (Dec 27 2004) starting up...
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] loaded config from C:\Program Files\SHOUTcast\sc_serv.ini
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] initializing (usermax:3 portbase:8000)...
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] No ban file found (sc_serv.ban)
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] No rip file found (sc_serv.rip)
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] opening source socket
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] source thread starting
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] opening client socket
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [source] listening for connection on port 8001
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] Client Stream thread [ 0 ] starting
<01/30/06@19:28:02> [main] client main thread starting

Seems good so far, but as soon as somebody tries to connect with Winamp to http://<my-ip>:8000 I see this in the Shoutcast event log:

<01/30/06@19:31:00> [dest: <IP from connector>] server unavailable, disconnecting

Server unavailable? Does shoutcast not connect to my Oddcast, which is listening to my soundcard?

On the bottom right corner of Shoutcast server I can all the time read:

(0/3(no source))

I think I at least should get this working on my local PC before I should even consider connection over Internet...

Any ideas? Or am I doomed to fail?

Alex B · « **Reply #30 on:** January 30, 2006, 02:17:13 pm »

Here is my log:

Code: [Select]

*******************************************************************************
** SHOUTcast Distributed Network Audio Server
** Copyright (C) 1998-2004 Nullsoft, Inc.  All Rights Reserved.
** Use "sc_serv filename.ini" to specify an ini file.
*******************************************************************************

Event log:
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [SHOUTcast] DNAS/win32 v1.9.4 (Mar 17 2004) starting up...
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] loaded config from C:\Soft\ShCa9230\sc_serv.ini
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] initializing (usermax:32 portbase:9230)...
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] No ban file found (sc_serv.ban)
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] No rip file found (sc_serv.rip)
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] opening source socket
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] source thread starting
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] opening client socket
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [source] listening for connection on port 9231
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] Client Stream thread [0] starting
<01/30/06@21:17:09> [main] client main thread starting
<01/30/06@21:17:43> [source] connected from 127.0.0.1
<01/30/06@21:17:43> [source] icy-name:This is my server name ; icy-genre:Rock
<01/30/06@21:17:43> [source] icy-pub:0 ; icy-br:128 ; icy-url:http://www.oddsock.org
<01/30/06@21:17:43> [source] icy-irc:N/A ; icy-icq:N/A ; icy-aim:N/A
<01/30/06@21:18:34> [dest: 127.0.0.1] starting stream (UID: 0)[L: 1]{A: WinampMPEG/2.8 mp3PRO/1.2}(P: 0)

This happened during the logging:

I already had Media Center playing music, output was set to direct sound > onboard C-media sound device.

1) at <01/30/06@21:17:09> I started the Shoutcast server

2) at <01/30/06@21:17:43> I started the Oddcast client

3) at <01/30/06@21:18:34> Winamp connected the broadcast (on the same PC). Winamp plays through my other sound card. I used this string in the Play > Location dialog: 127.0.0.1:9230

Here is my Oddcast encoder configuration:

In YP Settings I have disabled "Public Server". I have not touched the Advanced tab.

Here are the two things I have changed in the Shoutcast configuration file (sc_serv.ini):

Password=averysecretpassword
PortBase=9230

You can try this with one sound card (preferably set to direct sound), but the original sound and the broadcast will be mixed and shortly the sound will start to feedback.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #31 on:** January 30, 2006, 11:06:01 pm »

Oh boy, don't I just feel like a fool.... I always started the Oddcast first and then Shoutcast. But the best (worst) part is the Oddcast configuration. I always wondered about that Encoder-window on the bottom and thought that it might be for some use... I appoligize for my ignorance.

I don't seem to have MP3 Lame encoder available in the list. Do I need to get it somewhere and install it separatly? Will it show up in the list automatically aftwer installation or do I need to set it up somehow?

Alex B · « **Reply #32 on:** January 31, 2006, 04:50:18 am »

LAME is an installation option:

Also, you should select Vorbis 1.1. aoTUVb4.5 instead of standard 1.1. It has better audio quality. Actually, Ogg Vorbis would be a better codec choice than MP3 for low bitrates and for transcoding from various formats, but it needs a bit different configuration. Besides, Ogg Vorbis may need extra configuration on the receiving side. For example, WMP needs an installed DirectShow filter for Ogg Vorbis playback. So I thought it would be better to start this "course" with MP3 and a standard Shoutcast setup.

Jaqqe · « **Reply #33 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:01:27 am »

HEUREKA! It works! I can hear it my computer and my friend can hear it over the Internet. Now the only question remains: Will I be able to hear it from work. Stay tuned 14 hours for the great finale ;-)

A BIG thanks to Alex B for helping out with this. As OLA & THE JANGLERS sing in their song: "Alex is the man".

A small piece of advice for all trying this:

When installing Oddcast and retreiving the lame_enc.dll after the installation, do not copy the file to Winamp -directory as the installation program tells you to, but instead the Oddcast folder :-)

Jaqqe · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2006, 11:12:02 pm »

Works like a charm, also from work :-)

Exept, now I hear that MC has crashed at home...

Jaqqe · « **Reply #35 on:** February 02, 2006, 12:39:27 am »

Alex:
Does your MC ever crash, espacially if you change songs through media server in short intervals? My MC seems to crash then. I'm still to figure out the logic in the crashing.

Alex B · « **Reply #36 on:** February 03, 2006, 04:44:40 am »

Quote from: Jaqqe on February 02, 2006, 12:39:27 am

Alex:
Does your MC ever crash, espacially if you change songs through media server in short intervals? My MC seems to crash then. I'm still to figure out the logic in the crashing.

No, Remote Server has never caused a crash. Can you reproduce that when connecting the server locally on the same PC?

Jaqqe · « **Reply #37 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:18:15 am »

Not after 5 minutes of trying...

Jaqqe · « **Reply #38 on:** February 14, 2006, 03:11:02 pm »

Now I finally have this in "production" and it works almost like a charm. Still MC crashes every now and then, but I have gone around this by creating a suitable selection of smartlists on MC. Each list plays for days, so I'll have something to listen to anyway without risking MC crashing.

However now I found that something in this equation is quite funny: every now and then the music speeds up for a couple of seconds, but thankfully not quite to the sounds of Alvin & The Chipmunks. Wonder what could cause this?

Oh and MC is 11.1.118

KingSparta · « **Reply #39 on:** February 14, 2006, 05:27:17 pm »

Did the subject drift here?

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Client that doesn't require installation (Read 13599 times)