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[Johnny B]

I have a huge (cca 150GB) collection of APEs (still) in 3.97 format (because of this http://www.monkeysaudio.com/smf/index.php?topic=1420.0 - unfortunately Matt does not respond and it's been more than a year since he made a post on his Monkey's Audio website forum)
But now (using MC) I would like to convert them all to version 3.99. BUT when I convert (let's say) 1 album of APEs, MC does not overwrite the original files but creates new files named "name (1).ape". Is there a way to convert them AND let the names be the same?
Also once a file is converted and conversion is started again, MC converts the files again - even if they are already converted to the desired format (in this case desired version) e.g. MC converts 3.99 APE (High) files to 3.99 APE (High) files...

[EpF]

MC does not overwrite the original files but creates new files named "name (1).ape". Is there a way to convert them AND let the names be the same?

Do you have 'Update Database' checked, as well as 'Send Original File to the Recycle Bin'?  These are on the 'Convert Format' settings dialog...

Also once a file is converted and conversion is started again, MC converts the files again

I don't understand what you mean here...

[Johnny B]

Do you have 'Update Database' checked, as well as 'Send Original File to the Recycle Bin'?  These are on the 'Convert Format' settings dialog...

Yes I have...
MC does this. Once the conversion is started, it creates a new file named "name (1).ape" and when finished, file "name.ape" is deleted (recycled). Database is updated but linked to newly created file "name (1).ape"...

I don't understand what you mean here...

I converted an album from APE 3.97 to APE 3.99 High. When finished, I tried to do the very same thing - Convert with the very same settings. Now if "Skip conversions of same file type" is checked (in Convert Settings), nothing happens (Failed to convert) - a file IS already an APE file type. When this option is not checked, MC converts the file again - eventhough the source file already IS 3.99 High APE file and the result is also an 3.99 High APE file. In other words MC does not recognize that there is no need to convert such a file at all and that it should be skipped...
In Monkey's Audio application this worked fine...

[JimH]

You could put the files all in a new directory or directories as you convert and then use Library Tools/Rename Files from Properties to move them back.

Try a few before you do very many.

[Johnny B]

You could put the files all in a new directory or directories as you convert and then use Library Tools/Rename Files from Properties to move them back.

I know I could - but why should I?? I want them to stay where they are because they are (all of them) in the right place(s) already...
Does it mean that there is no way - only either rename them manually after conversion or convert them elsewhere and then move them back? Seems to be pretty complicated...  (150GB)

[JimH]

You'll need to find a workaround.  Maybe convert them all to WAV and then convert them all to APE.

[Johnny B]

You'll need to find a workaround.  Maybe convert them all to WAV and then convert them all to APE.

I see...
The problem is "disk space" - I simply can't extract them all to WAVs and then convert them back to APEs.
My intention was to go Convert over night (as I used to do in Monkey's Audio application) - this is unpleasant...
And BTW wouldn't be the database information lost?

[Alex B]

You can convert or replace files outside MC and apply the tags afterwards to the files. Your database will be OK. It doesn't matter if the files have tags or not. Just make sure that the names and paths don't change.

After you have the new files in place just start MC and do "Update Tags (from library)" once and then "Update Library (from files)" once. Backup the library and try with a test file first.

BTW, why? 3.99 is marginally smaller if at all and there is no quality change as the formats are lossless.

[GHammer]

Additionally, you will not save much room using "High".
Try one to Normal and to High and see if you want to spend the time on convert and decoding using High.

As for the ability to overwrite the file you are converting, I'd just convert to a different directory and then move them.

Or allow the renaming and then remove the originals and rename the new.

Isn't a good way to convert and overwrite at the same time.

[Alex B]

Isn't a good way to convert and overwrite at the same time.

Well, that doesn't matter much unless the user can and will verify the files somehow before replacing the old files. All converters write first to a temporally file and replace the original after the conversion. It is just more automatic when a converter does the job.

I wouldn't dare to make that kind of operation without complete file backups. Actually, I don't dare to use my PC unless my backups are up-to-date. Though, that leads to a chicken-egg dilemma when adding new files. I must lower my shields a bit then.

[Johnny B]

You can convert or replace files outside MC and apply the tags afterwards to the files. Your database will be OK. It doesn't matter if the files have tags or not. Just make sure that the names and paths don't change.

OK - but how should I convert them "outside"? I only used Monkey's Audio application itself...

After you have the new files in place just start MC and do "Update Tags (from library)" once and then "Update Library (from files)" once. Backup the library and try with a test file first.

OK

BTW, why? 3.99 is marginally smaller if at all and there is no quality change as the formats are lossless.

Due to smoother playback

Additionally, you will not save much room using "High".

Saving space is not my intention...

Isn't a good way to convert and overwrite at the same time.

Monkey's Audio creates temp file and then and only once the file si properly converted, the original is replaced. I did convert several times LOTS of APEs and NEVER had any problem. Additionally the only space you need to convert any-big collection is simply a space of the largest APE's decompressed WAV...

[Alex B]

OK - but how should I convert them "outside"? I only used Monkey's Audio application itself...

How about using the Monkey's Audio application itself?

[Johnny B]

How about using the Monkey's Audio application itself?

How about reading my first post?  http://www.monkeysaudio.com/smf/index.php?topic=1420.0

[Alex B]

As you know I am aware of the bug in Monkey's Audio GUI tool. If I remember correctly the tool adds some crap characters in the end of the wave files so the physical files on the disc are not bit-to-bit identical after decompression. All testing showed that the audio content stayed unaltered. When you are converting from APE to APE the files should be OK.

However, if you are paranoid about this you could try dBpowerAMP Music Converter. It is a very good conversion tool and has a batch tool too. I use it a lot for file conversions. Its freeware version can convert Monkey's Audio files.

Also, you could use MC in smaller batches. Just specify a new base folder for your new files. You can work with a copy of your library (make a new library and clone the contents) and let it update the database. After the conversion you can use library tools for renaming the folders (except the base folder) if needed. When the folder paths are ok you can just copy the folders over your previous folders with Windows Explorer and start working with the next batch. After you have converted the files just load your original library back and do the update tags & library steps.

[Johnny B]

As you know I am aware of the bug in Monkey's Audio GUI tool.

Sorry then - for being slightly sarcastic

...you could try dBpowerAMP Music Converter..

I did and it works fine for me - as you wrote. Thank you

[Alex B]

Don't worry, no offense taken. It is just that I have posted several hundred posts after we last time discussed about this, but you have not. So perhaps you should remember better...  

My memory is not that good. I just checked the old thread and noticed that the extra crap characters are added to the APE file tags instead of wave files.

I'm glad you finally found a solution to your problem. It is seven months since you first posted about this.

[Johnny B]

I'm glad you finally found a solution to your problem. It is seven months since you first posted about this.

Well it still does not solve the bug in Monkey's Audio application...

[MarSies]

Johnny B,

I don't get it. I have done the same thing. Converted everything to the latest APE version with the extra high setting. If you get the filename(1).ape, just rename file from properties. I have done that and it worked.

Despite alle the negative advices of using extra high setting with ape I use it. It would use more CPU cycles. So what, that's what I bought a computer for. And you do save a lot of disk space. Especially when you have more then 1000 albums it saves you a lot.

Marsies .....

[Johnny B]

I don't get it.  If you get the filename(1).ape, just rename file from properties. I have done that and it worked.

Well would you do this 5001 times? That's the amount of my APE files...

[MarSies]

Don't want to boast but I have about 11.000. Just run the command on all files and leave youre machine for a while.

Try a few albums before you do all.

Marsies .....

[Johnny B]

Just run the command on all files and leave youre machine for a while.

And what is the command for renaming 5000 files the way "delete that number in bracket"?

[Alex B]

MC's Find and Replace tool can change all (1).ape parts in filenames to .ape at once. It takes only a few seconds. When converting MC moves the old files to Recycle Bin (if selected), but it is possible to temporally disable Recycle Bin or select a maximum size that is not too big. (righ-click the Bin)

Also, when I think this again I realize that you could safely convert the files with Monkey's Audio if they are imported to MC first. Just disable tagging in MA options or remove the tags with MC afterwards. MC can remove all physical file tags and make completely new tags from the library data. AFAIK MC doesn't have APE-tagging bugs.

However, I hope that Matt will have time and/or interest to fix the Monkey's Audio GUI tool. It is a nice program and it is a pity that people blame it because of that minor bug.

[hit_ny]

Sorry if i cant help as i dont speak APE

but there is one thing that isn't yet clear.

APE is lossless

What would you gain going from 3.97 to 3.99 ?

[MarSies]

How about a better compression. Saving more disk space. Maybe better algorithm or just faster coding and deconding. Better support for tagging.
I don't know which of the following is true but there must be a reason for a version change.

Johnny B
Have you tried to convert already. It does work with MC. I did this about half a year ago.

Marsies .....

[Johnny B]

MC's Find and Replace tool can change all (1).ape parts in filenames to .ape at once. It takes only a few seconds. When converting MC moves the old files to Recycle Bin (if selected), but it is possible to temporally disable Recycle Bin or select a maximum size that is not too big. (righ-click the Bin)

Really? Could be the workaround.

However, I hope that Matt will have time and/or interest to fix the Monkey's Audio GUI tool. It is a nice program and it is a pity that people blame it because of that minor bug.

Exactly...

What would you gain going from 3.97 to 3.99 ?

As I already wrote - it's because of playback smoothness

[hit_ny]

As I already wrote - it's because of playback smoothness

Smoothness, meaning less skips ? Due to faster decoding.

Pity just using a more recent decoder can't do it. So you got to convert everything.

I'm curious how powerful your machine is ?

Assuming it is powerful enough, you are so convinced that a conversion is necessary for what ? a 0.02 version upgrade. Heck if it were that good, why not make it 4.0.

Tagging is not that much of a deal as MC can handle pretty much anything.

[JimH]

Despite alle the negative advices of using extra high setting with ape I use it. It would use more CPU cycles. So what, that's what I bought a computer for. And you do save a lot of disk space. Especially when you have more then 1000 albums it saves you a lot.

The savings is something on the order of 2 or 3%, so on a typical 250GB drive, you're saving $1 or $2 of disk storage.  Even Matt doesn't recommend using it.

As far as any significant difference between 3.97 and 3.99, I don't think so.  Matt tends to keep our APE encoder at the version he believes is best.

[MarSies]

JimH,

I use 4*200GB drives in RAID 5 and i converted everything to "extra high" and for me the gained space was useful enough. And yes GB's are now getting cheaper everyday. In a few years we don't need to use compression because memory is getting cheap. But it wasn't cheap a year ago.

Matt has written that he did not advice this setting. The only reason I can remember was that it used too many CPU cycles. For me that's not important. CPU's are powerful and made to work. I don't see a performance drawback when using this setting. If the setting is not good, why is it in MC?

I don't know the difference between 3.97 and 3.99. I know that the difference in MC 11.0.308 and 11.0.310 can be important.  So why not use it. It takes the machine less then an hour to do it, so why not !

Marsies .....

[JimH]

I don't know the difference between 3.97 and 3.99. I know that the difference in MC 11.0.308 and 11.0.310 can be important.  So why not use it?

Sometimes newer isn't better.  MC has had its share of bad builds.  It's part of the process.

[MarSies]

I agree. Newer isn't always better. 

Marsies .....

[hit_ny]

CPU's are powerful and made to work. I don't see a performance drawback when using this setting. If the setting is not good, why is it in MC?

It's there to give ppl like you Marsies, the warm fuzzies.

The rest won't hear the difference even if they tried

[GHammer]

Sometimes newer isn't better.  MC has had its share of bad builds.  It's part of the process.

But it's newer!