Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[KingSparta]

I Removed The Image

[Galley]

I'd really hate to be in "Nawlins" right about now!  I expect we will get dumped on here in the upstate of South Carolina come Wed.

[edbro]

I'd really hate to be in "Nawlins" right about now!  I expect we will get dumped on here in the upstate of South Carolina come Wed.

I got new for ya. We're all gonna get dumped on. Do you know how many oil refinaries are in that area? Expect this to be another excuse to raise the price of gas. I would fill up first thing in the morning if I were you. Save some for me.

[Bluesman]

Yeah, well lucky you're not in Australia, petrol is already a $1.20+ per litre (not per gallon)

[andrewg500]

Try $1.8 a litre in the UK.......but at least we don't get hurricanes.

[murphusa]

Now I know why I live in the mountains outside of San Andreas, California.

[Absurrrd]

I was wondering what site the map came from
I'm up north here in Maine but I'll keep you guys down south in my prayers.
                                                       Chris
                                                               

[murphusa]

Hi Absurrd,

You can find the maps on intellicast.com.

By the way, gas in Mountain Ranch, CA is $3.19 per US gallon.

Murph

[Charlemagne 8]

Murph,

"Now I know why I live in the mountains outside of San Andreas, California."

You mean San Andreas -- as in the fault line?

Who needs a hurricane?

While we're on the subject:
There seems to be a woeful lack of preparedness in dealing with survivors for a country that has supposedly been revamping their responses to a terrorist attack for the last four years.

Hopefully this is on a much grander scale than people could carry out but what if it's not?

And there seemed to be NO plan is place, not even an inadequate one.

Surely someone, somewhere envisioned an attack that destroyed a large part of New Orleans, including a levee or two.

I guess not.

CVIII

[murphusa]

CVIII,

Well, that's the name of the city, however I am about 100 miles from the fault itself.  Maybe I will have beach front property someday.  I hope that never comes though.

I am in the Gold Rush country in Northern California.  A stream runs through my property and I also have a gold pan.  No gold yet.

Yes, it is sad that our government can't help its own people.  Now I see that they are having riots and rapes in the Super Dome.  Sad that people can't control themselves.  I don't think the Army should be used to control such things.  People sure have changed since I was young.  We used to try to help our neighbors not rape and pillage them.

Murph

[GHammer]

People here in China ask me why the US government has not helped, why there are no police stopping criminals.

And of course, I have no answers.

One of them told me that looking at the pictures, it looked like an African country after a flood, that they would never believe it was the USA except for the story the pictures went with.

Good work GW...

[Galley]

Katrina completely bypassed us by staying to the west, but she made sure we wouldn't forget her by knocking out the power to the oil pipeline that serves the Southeast US.  Our gas prices went up 70 cents in just a few hours, and nearly every station in town has sold out. 

[JimH]

People here in China ask me why the US government has not helped, why there are no police stopping criminals.

What we read in the news is that the priority of the police has been on finding trapped survivors.

Not all of the looting is theft.  Many people need things and stores are closed.  I can imagine people anywhere would panic if stores closed unexpectedly for a week.

The power is out in many places.  The tap water isn't safe to drink and requires boiling, but if you had an electric range, you couldn't do that.  Because of broken gas lines, the gas has probably been turned off in places.

GW could probably stop the looting by giving "shoot to kill" orders to the National Guard troops, but some innocent people in need would be killed.

It's a very difficult problem.  It's sad to see.

[KingSparta]

I Agree with Jim on this

Me and my wife had a talk last night about all of what is happening down there rapes, killings, looting etc...

You will always have people who would rape, kill, loot etc.. on a good day.

Then you will have people who will do things they would not normally do when they feel trapped or desperate. Humans tend to revert back to there basic instinct and the need for "survival".

Many of these people have lost family members, husbands, wives, kids and parents.

Lessons learned:

When you live in a place close to the ocean and are also below sea level and a hurricane is coming:

1. You Need to leave town, and plan on being gone for a very long time.
2. see number one.

[GHammer]

What we read in the news is that the priority of the police has been on finding trapped survivors.

Not all of the looting is theft.  Many people need things and stores are closed.  I can imagine people anywhere would panic if stores closed unexpectedly for a week.

Oh sure, if I were not able to leave town and then were stuck with no food, you bet a 7-11 would be a happy place for me.

But, unfortunately, it isn't people getting food and water from store that is reported (and likely is not that big an issue). Or perhaps my limited news sources simply shade things...

"Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.
"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon.""

"Across the city, law and order broke down, and the rescuers themselves were being shot at.
Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, '"Go to hell — it's every man for himself.'"
FEMA officials said some operations had to be suspended in areas where gunfire had broken out."

Personally, I'd think police are more useful policing and rescue personnel should rescue.

I also think that maybe because New Orleans is pretty much poor and black that there just isn't the sense of urgency that there would be if it were Malibu for instance.

From the security to the rescue to the further evacuation it looks like there has been little thought and less execution. Though the photo ops and speeches are coming quite fast.

I just have a mental image of GW telling himself "Sending Daddy and Clinton worked for the tsunami." Too bad for him that this time there is nobody to declare war against, there actually has to be a reasonable and timely response.

Finally, I see the "bad intelligence" excuse from the Iraq war is being reused here:

"Michael Brown, director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, said FEMA just learned about the situation at the convention center Thursday"

I feel for all who have been affected by this. I lived in Biloxi for a few years then moved on to Metarie LA. Great people, excellent food, beautiful scenery, wonderful music. Hope we get them all back soon.

[GHammer]

When you live in a place close to the ocean and are also below sea level and a hurricane is coming:

1. You Need to leave town, and plan on being gone for a very long time.
2. see number one.

Unfortunately, unless there has been a drastic change since I lived there, the people still in town are poor. I'd bet most receive assistance. This happened at the end of the month. Checks don't come until the first of the month.

If they had wanted to, they probably didn't have the cash for a bus/train/gas. Though some think welfare is good money, it isn't. There is always a lot more month than money.

Maybe with all the studies and planning for a hurricane hitting New Orleans, someone should have thought to line up transportation out of the area for those who can't afford it on their own.

[bob]

IMO we should condemn the "blame the victims" strategy being used by the FEMA director and some TV pundits about people "Choosing to stay". Reports are that most of the people who remained behind had very limited to no resources to get out. On top of that public transport (Greyhound and AMTRAK) stopped last SATURDAY and the evacuation order was given on SUNDAY! Never mind that you could't get 60,000 people out on the limited number of public busses or trains anyway. There is going to be plenty of blame to go around for this but blaming the victims is pretty disgusting.

[KingSparta]

Maybe with all the studies and planning for a hurricane hitting New Orleans, someone should have thought to line up transportation out of the area for those who can't afford it on their own.

Very True

There was no plan (or a major one) that was formed to extract the people

One of the things we (me and sue) could not understand is why in the other states that school could have been cancelled and the Buses could have been used to extract the people both before and after the event.

And I agree there are people who could not leave due to lack of money. that's why we donate a pay taxes.

This was a big brake down in the government not necessarily the people who live there.

[lee269]

This is a terrible tragedy. One can only feel sympathy.

Its not suprising that some people were unable or unwilling to leave, and clear to me that desperate people deserve to take food, clothing, shelter etc wherever they can find it. I confess I genuinely cannot understand why it seems that relief is not arriving quicker.

Some of the passionate quotes from the mayor I have read are startling, and the stories of crime and rape are disturbing. It seems amazing that central government and the President seem to be so far on the back foot with what has happened.

But its so difficult to tell from this distance when I dont know the place. I only hope those in trouble get the help they need soon.

[Mr ChriZ]

Hopefully things like this will make people think about Global Warming a bit more
especially in america, where many turn a blind eye 

I'm about to make my car Carbon Neutral 
www.futureforests.com

[KingSparta]

especially in america, where many turn a blind eye

I don't think it is people don't care, i just think it is about what is avail and cost.

[Mr ChriZ]

Yeh know what you mean, but the cost of not doing something is far greater than
doing something.  People are convinced it's down to governments and unions to sort these things out.  But really it's down to individuals to make a difference, which sway the bigger changes

[Bluey]

I heard that 30 British people trapped in the superdome had to be removed and guarded because they were being attacked, threatened and racially abused.

Nobody was mugged in the Asian countries nor was there any reports of looting, the poorest of the poor helped each other.

Even tourists that were trapped were invited into the poorest homes, given food and some money and helped to get to their destination for help by the poorest of the poor in Thailand.

What does it tell me about the poor in the New Orleans area ?  Just because your poor it does not mean you have to be nasty, but this certainly looks the case.  This is a question America must answer.  What causes the poor to hate so much, and what keeps them poor.

Bluey.

[JimH]

I heard that 30 British people trapped in the superdome had to be removed and guarded because they were being attacked, threatened and racially abused.

Nobody was mugged in the Asian countries nor was there any reports of looting, the poorest of the poor helped each other.

Nobody was mugged in Asia?  Maybe our news reporting is better.

[Bluesman]

A View from Australia:
I am dismayed that the wealthiest, most developed nation in the world, the one that can get us to the edge of the solar system does not appear to have an effective emergency response for this terrible tragedy. I understand the Australian Govt has donated $10 million dollars to Red Cross to help.
Since we had a disastrous cyclone event approx 30 years ago there are effective nation wide emergency response organisations to cope with these types of natural disaster.  Any government here that would be slow to react would be voted out of office at this next election.
The other message it sends to would be terrorists, is just how easy it is to create anarchy when there is a slow response.

Good luck guys, I know there are many blues artists living in the New Orleans area, some of whom are unaccounted for. Let's hope for a speedy resolution to this tragedy.

[KingSparta]

the Australian Govt has donated $10 million dollars

Current Estimates exceed 100 billion That is just an estimate in lost proprty damage

Since we had a disastrous cyclone event approx 30 years ago

so it has not been tested for 30 years?

there are effective nation wide emergency response organisations to cope with these types of natural disaster.

we also have many emergency response organisation one being called "FEMA", "Department of Homeland Security" (DHS) & "Red Cross", it is not that they are bad at what they do, i think it was more like they were slow at getting the ball moving.

http://www.fema.gov/news/recentnews.fema
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/archdisplay?theme=43
http://www.redcross.org

most of "FEMA'S" money and hands are tied until Senate votes on a funding package. i am sure changes to funding will change after this event.

Any government here that would be slow to react would be voted out of office at this next election.

As normal I am sure we will see this affect politics here.

This Is The Largest Natural disaster In this nations History

Here Is A Link Of What The Government has done todate (as of friday) this is from U.S. Department of Homeland Security web site.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=16&content=4772

[runemail]

I think Kanye West said it best(from pitchfork):

"But perhaps the most powerful response came from Kanye West, who ignored teleprompters during a live concert Friday night on NBC to vent his frustrations, insisting, to the shock of his co-hosts, "George Bush doesn't care about black people." “I hate the way they portray us in the media," he said, visibly shaken. "You see a black family and they say we are looting, you see a white family and they say they are looking for food. America is set up to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off, as slow as possible.”"

 Its sad to witness how little your government has done for the ones that need it most (until the public reacted).  A thing like this could not have happened in the more developed parts of the world. China evacuated almost 1.000.000 people this week from a storm there. The headline of CNN.com is still "WAITING AND DYING" six days after Katrina, there is no excuse for this!

The estimated cost of Katrina is like 3months of war in Iraq.

Alex Chilton of Big Star is still missing in New  Orleans

[Bluesman]

No, it's been tested many times with more minor cyclones as well as floods and bushfires, but not to the extent of Cyclone Tracy which totally levelled our most northern city, Darwin,  in the early 70's.
cheers.

so it has not been tested for 30 years?

[JimH]

From a Reuters article at Yahoo:

Aaron Broussard, Jefferson Parish president, told the CBS "Early Show" there were people still at risk in his community.

"Bureaucracy has murdered people in the greater New Orleans area and bureaucracy needs to stand trial before Congress today," he said." "So I'm asking Congress please investigate this now.

"Take whatever idiot they have at the top, give me a better idiot. Give me a caring idiot. Give me a sensitive idiot. Just don't give me the same idiot."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050906/ts_nm/katrina_dc;_ylt=AtmFDUdeSkyesGuBa72WTURZ.3QA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[hit_ny]

A friend told me that police were delayed by a cpl of days getting into New Orleans from other states because they needed training in the way the law worked there !!

Louisiana still has roman law. Everywhere else in the US it's civil law.

Lots of things happened at the wrong time and all at once. The city being under sea level and sandwiched between a lake & a river was bad enough as it is.

I doubt any govt could have done better in this situation. Especailly a govt that commmited most of the national guard from those states to duties abroad.

[Charlemagne 8]

Aaron Broussard is the guy that broke down completely on live TV on Meet The Press Sunday morning.
It was very moving.
Tim Russert was at a complete loss.

I saw a large convoy of Tennessee Guard heading south today.
Seems a little late but it's better than never.

CVIII

[Chasoscar]

I am one of the unlucky folks that experienced this disaster first hand. I live on the Miss Coast in Waveland. We evacuated to Hattiesburg(about 70 miles inland) for the storm. It has been almost 2 weeks and even this far inland we are just now seeing fresh water, gas, and food unless someone brings it in. Some power is just now being restored and therefore it is getting some better now, but it is hard to describe what has happened here. Today is the first day since the storm that I have been able to find anyone that could access the internet.

I heard someone say that it could be called the "great equalizer", because it does not matter what you had before the storm, most all of us here have lost most of what we are used to. I had a chance to go down to check on my place a few days ago and the damage was extensive. It is hard to even find landmarks that you can recognize. Still I consider myself lucky because we did not loose any of our family or close friends.

All of us here in South Miss and Im sure the folks that were displaced from N.O. appreciate your thoughts and any help that you are able to give. We still have a long way to go before we are able to return to any kind of normalcy.

Again....... thank you for you thoughts
Chasoscar

[JimH]

Chasoscar,
Thanks for reporting in.  I'm glad you and your family are safe. 

I saw your PM about the FTP site, but that's the only way.  You can't upload a picture to the forum.  If you want to, e-mail me one or two and I'll post them.

Keep us posted on how things are going.

Jim
jimh @ jriver.com

[Chasoscar]

Thanx Jim~~
Let me resize a few of them and I will send them along..... you can then choose which you would like to post.
I was orginally just going to add one to my post of the 36" oak that came thru the roof and landed on the bed.  We were very lucky that no one was there when it fell. That one oak destroyed 4 bedrooms and we had other trees that fell on other parts of the house.
Thanks for your concern and kind words.
Charlie

[bob]

There was a really interesting program on NOW (PBS) last Friday here. Mostly on parts of Mississippi that have been destroyed and are still without water, gas, food, etc. FEMA is still MIA there. People have been scraping stuff together. Unreal.

[JimH]

chasoscar sent these pictures of his place:



Drive before the hurricane



After the hurricane



Oak tree in the bedroom

[JimH]

The bedroom picture is amazing!  What's remarkable is that if chasoscar and mrs chasoscar had been in bed, they probably would have been OK.  It looks like the roof was able to hold the tree.

[Chasoscar]

Jim~
Thanx for posting these for me.

Some might wonder why I sent pictures of my driveway. This is mostly where I have been for the last 2 weeks trying to salvage what is left and I thought it might give an idea of how the winds just stripped the land of large trees and even small foliage.

This is the way everything looks all the way from west of N.O. to east of Mobile and up to 200 miles inland(to a lesser degree the farther inland you go).

It will be many years before our lives, landscape and lifesyles recovers.

[JimH]

Listening to: 'Someday We'll Be Together' from 'The Ultimate Collection: Diana Ross & The Supremes' by 'Diana Ross & the Supremes' on JRiver Media Center 11

[KingSparta]

Fran went over my house back in 1996, i thought my house would have went like the others around me, i just lost a few shingles, like 30 homes around me lost there roofs and got pulled off the foundation.

[JimH]

Luck counts.