Topic: Pausing at end of track (Read 5410 times)

twherreman · « **on:** September 16, 2005, 08:56:32 am »

Hi
I just want to stress how major an issue it is for me that MC stalls just before the end of a song as it buffers the next one. I DJ for sometimes hundreds of people and the music I play always has a real ending (not a fade-out like contemporary music) so it is a HUGE HUGE problem. All the dancers turn around and look at me when this happens.
Please fix it ASAP or I will have to change to different software.
Thanks!!
Tine

John Gateley · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2005, 10:24:57 am »

This is the first you've mentioned it.

What are your settings? (Tools->Options Playback Audio Settings Switch Tracks)

j

jgreen · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2005, 10:30:51 am »

I can confirm this. This is the same issue that I and others have posted to the ver .314 thread. Unfortunately, for me it is very occasional, maybe once a day. So I'm guessing that jriver is also having trouble reproducing it, and therefore split the topic off.

This issue has occured going from FLAC to FLAC and going from FLAC to WAV. I can tell you that it occurs at the point the next track is buffered in, and that it is an abrupt silence. My DSP settings are direct sound, .59 seconds buffering, gapless, gapless, immediate. My output is 32-bit, source, source.

Tihs occurs in ver .314, although the next track seems to start up just fine once you press play.

John Gateley · « **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2005, 11:25:55 am »

I hadn't correlated the two - I thought he was talking about a pause (as in a brief pause with music continuing without intervention) rather than a stop requiring intervention.

In any case, I need more details: how often does it happen. Is there an easy way to make it always happen?

jgreen - do you have anything else beside FLAC files?

Anyone else seeing this problem, does it happen on non-flac files?

j

jgreen · « **Reply #4 on:** September 16, 2005, 11:39:12 am »

John--
Thanks for looking in to this. For further confirmation, I would point you to replies 12-14 in the ver .314 thread.

Unfortunately, I can't get a handle on the circumstances this occurs under, it's so rare. I too was suspicious it was a FLAC thing, but danrien and twherreman are not likely running flacs, although they haven't given full details.

As I said in the earlier post, it last occured going from FLAC to WAV file. I think this further indicates it's not file-specific. I have plenty of other files, but the bug is so infrequent (for me) that I can't associate file type any closer yet. I'm running wav's and it occurs with wav's.

My overall impression is that it is related to the loading in of next track. I realize there's probably 50 things that occur at that point, but it's at that EXACT poiint. NOT related to the amount of buffing (0-5 secs), but rather at the exact point that MC loads in the next track. I'll keep looking at it (as I'm listening to music).

prod · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:34:37 am »

Quote from: John Gateley on September 16, 2005, 11:25:55 am

Anyone else seeing this problem, does it happen on non-flac files?

I've had the same problem but it happens so rarely (maybe once a month) that I've not bothered mentioning it. MC just stops playback around 5 seconds before the track ends, as if I've clicked pause. However, I can't get it to resume so generally just exit and reload. My entire collection is MP3 so the issue, at least with me, isn't with switching between different formats. When it has happened I've thought maybe there was a problem writing to the database the Last Played information, as I'm sure I've had this problem occur when there is no next track to buffer (I always have continuous play off).

Anyway, good luck finding the problem - like I say, it happens very rarely.

twherreman · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2005, 10:02:46 am »

Hey, twherreman again. So close to my entire collection is mp3. It happens often but not always, and only at the end after the first song I play. It is especially a problem when I teach a dance class and I stop and restart at each song. It is also a problem when I DJ and at the beginning and after interruptions and when I have to fix something that involves pressing start. I have continuous play on always.
More details. The music stops a second or two before the end of the music (4 seconds before the end of the mp3 file). If I do nothing, it just stays dead forever. The graphic also is suspended in mid-move. The little square keeps moving until it hits the end of the line and stays there. I see the pause button so the software is in play mode (since it's a toggle button)
If I press the pause button, it plays the last second. When I press this button, and it is playing the last second, it keeps looking like a pause button. So the software knows it was pausing even though the toggle button implied it was on Play.
Anyway after I press pause and it starts to play the last seconds, it will sometimes and sometimes not move on to the next song. Often I just get nervous and double click the next song, then it also plays the last second and then usually moves on. Either way, we are now again at the first song and it will probably happen again. For testing purposes I am now in a loop and it has happened the first 6 times and not the 7th time and after.
It's MC 11.0.314.
Again, this is a problem. Right now I'm dealing with it by making sure I play an entire song without a glitch, then I plug into the sound system. My people are making fun of me and say I should switch to iTunes. Please help.
Thanks
Tine

JimH · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2005, 10:14:40 am »

What sound card do you have? Did you try updating the drivers for it?

Another possibility is the Windows sound for opening a file. Try control panel/sounds and set it to nothing.

twherreman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2005, 10:20:04 am »

Hi, I have a soundblaster audigy nx2 external usb card. I got it in August. But the problem occurs even when I am using my laptop's original internal soundcard. It did just now.
I always have my windows sound scheme to No Sounds.
Could you direct me to this ver .314 post that is mentioned, I can't find it, could you post a link?
Thanks a lot!!

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2005, 11:24:35 am »

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=29414.0

is the post referenced above to version .314

JimH · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2005, 12:35:49 pm »

Quote from: twherreman on October 11, 2005, 10:20:04 am

Hi, I have a soundblaster audigy nx2 external usb card. I got it in August. But the problem occurs even when I am using my laptop's original internal soundcard. It did just now.

Did it occur before installing the audigy?

twherreman · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2005, 01:56:52 pm »

Well I got MC11 about July 20, and the Audigy about Aug 10, so it's hard to be sure. I recall thinking it might be due to a faulty interaction, so it's possible it started happening only after the Audigy. I know for sure it never happened with the MC10 without the Audigy.
I installed only the driver, not any of the software that came with it.
In any case now it does it also on my built-in sound card, when the Audigy is not plugged in.
Sorry for the hassle and thanks for looking into this. I really like your software and I hope I will be able to keep using it.
Tine

jgreen · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2005, 02:09:14 pm »

JimH--
FWIW, I continue to get this issue in .314. It was also present in .316. It is not related to the soundcard, or audio-related. It is the playback within MC, specifically the last 5 seconds, when MC is cueing up the next track. I have seen this issue with various filetypes, WAV, FLAC, and twherreman's mp3. For me it is just an occassional annoyance, although I can confirm that it is predominantly the first track, when it happens, which is once or twice a day. If twherreman can isolate it to ONLY the first track, I would be surprised, but that would be important info. I get the feeling that it does NOT happen on the last track, where it is not cueing up another track, although I can't be certain.

More to the Doom-and Gloom, I think this is a lingering bug in playback where the next track is cued up. Remember that, er, customer who couldn't get his 1-second tracks to play. I confirmed that also, although I don't have as many 1-second tracks as other people do, apparently.

JimH · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2005, 02:30:11 pm »

Usually, but not always, when we such a clear problem, but it isn't widely reported, it ends up being a problem related to other software.

This thread has a long list of problems that were caused by other software, but showed up in Media Center:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=24031;start=0

(I added one this morning....)

That doesn't mean that it isn't a bug in our software. It just means that I don't think it's likeley. If it were our bug, I would expect to see it a lot.

The delay could be explained by a virus checker getting in the way, for example.

What virus checker do you use? What else can you find in common with people who do have the problem. Via chipsets, for example.

twherreman · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2005, 03:56:09 pm »

Hi,
Thanks I will try DJing with both antivirus and anti spyware disabled.
Will let you know
Tine

jgreen · « **Reply #15 on:** October 11, 2005, 04:47:02 pm »

JimH--
Certainly, more knowledgeable computer users than me have jumped up on the soapbox and at the very moment they discovered it was their own antivirus, etc at fault.
But it would help if Matt or another developer would spend a moment thinking about what processes MC initiates at the point it buffers in the next track. One or more of these is OCCASIONALLY not firing. Is the antivirus at fault? Maybe, but exactly what is being shut down, so we can make sure it's not shut down in the future?

Here is a list of possible suspects that twherreman can compare to his own.
--Norton (Symantec) AntiVirus
--Norton (Symantec) Internet Security
--Zone Labs Basic (Free) Firewall---Note, this very likely suspect was NOT installed when the issue first presented itself.
--Anitispyware. I use Adaware and Spybot, but NOT realtime scanning, meaning it's not running when MC is running.

Like twherreman, I use an Audigy (I can hear JimH shouting "aha!" half a continent away), which I've used from day 1. I haven't changed drivers in about a year. MC worked properly with the Audigy prior to this issue.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2005, 06:18:28 pm »

aha!

just kidding

jgreen · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2005, 11:32:29 am »

Not off-topic, but I would like to point out (again) that the ZL is only a recent (and occassional) addition, while the issue has been going on much longer. The ZL Pro, which monitors how programs talk to each other, would be a likely suspect for this issue, but I'm not using it.

Two firewalls may sound like wearing two sets of underwear, but sometimes I wear two sets of underwear, so it all makes sense to me. I'm trying out the ZL because the Norton is only 50% of what I want out of a firewall. Surprisingly, they don't conflict, and each have separate non-overlapping fuctionality. Norton is better at monitoring/controlling outbound communication, ZL is better at perimeter defense.

Something MC does in buffering in a new track is failing to initiate or being prevented by something else. MC played fine with installed firewalls for six months and then went bad two months ago, prior to the ZL. There were no changes in the firewall. I agree antispyware/antivirus is a likely suspect, but until I can move MC to its own server, it will have to deal with the firewall(s).

For me, this issue is so occassional that it's difficult to get a fix on its character. Twherreman, as a DJ, is likely in a better position to identify the problem.

twherreman · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2005, 04:19:12 pm »

Folks,
Thanks for all your thinking about this. By the way I am a "she". I know that isn't obvious from my name so I thought I should just set the record straight.
Thanks again
Tine, pronounced "Tina"

jgreen · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2005, 06:58:39 pm »

I looked back through my posts, and the only times I called you "man" was when I was calling you twherreman. Is that still allowed?

Welcome. MC does a lot of things realy well, but "chick magnet" is not one of them, as far as I can tell. (Maybe I should make a feature request out of that.) So out of the 10,000 or so registered members on the forum, we now have five women, maybe six.

I think it's going to have to be ladies first on this bug, twherrewoman. Nobody believes me so it's up to you to isolate it. If you're getting the issue regularly (I'm not, it's only occassional), you might try going through the list of likely suspects I posted earlier and seeing if any ring a bell. Good luck and write back soon.

twherreman · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2005, 03:14:41 pm »

Hey
Well I must not be a typical chick.

About the problem.
I realized it also sometimes occurs with the buffering of the first track (in addition to buffering of track 2 at the end of track 1). This is less noticeable because I set my mouse click speed very high so sometimes I have to click again anyway, if nothing happens (I have mouse click on fast to reduce accidents). I notice that when I dbl click, nothing happens but I see the Play triangle become a Pause ||, if I now click Pause, it starts to play and the button stays at || position.

Again, I estimate this problem happens in about 15% of cases, and the occurrences are clustered, i.e. if it just happened it is very likely to happen again at the next try, if not then I'm probably OK.

Now with all due respect, I may be an atypical chick but I am not a software developer and when purchasing the program I was under the impression that it would be functional for my purposes. I have no problem taking the trouble to report the problem and explain in some detail so you can fix it, but "isolating the bug" sounds a little bit like it's not really my job. You don't want it to be my job because I would make an unholy mess of it. I am a customer, not a contributor to freeware.

I am presently going to recreate the circumstances if I can, and see whether the spyware etc variables have an effect.

Thanks
Tine

BullishDad · « **Reply #21 on:** October 13, 2005, 04:45:21 pm »

I have had a problem of a hiccup which takes place about 5-7 seconds before the end of a track. I could not reproduce it today, so I still have no idea what causes it.

A look at this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=26256.0 may help, although the thread stopped without any real conclusions or solutions.

Somehow, I suspect these two problems are related. I realize they are different as Tine is experiencing an actual stop in the music, whereas I've experienced a half second pause, then the song continues to play on its own.

Even today when the output is playing fine, I did notice that the Progress Bar will flash for a moment at the same 5-7 seconds mark before the end of the song.

jgreen · « **Reply #22 on:** October 13, 2005, 05:26:49 pm »

Well, I'm a customer, too. If you're seeing this issue 15% of the time, 1 in 7, I would call that extremely serious, particularly since you're employing the software for professional use. For me, I see this bug once a day, maybe. 1 out of 50, maybe 1 out of 100. So I can't even begin to characterize it, it happens so infrequently. I have a feeling jriver is having trouble reproducing it also, as in, it doesn't reproduce. So they don't know where to look for it.
So you and I have to isolate it, who have the particular sys configs that make this bug happen. And at 2% occurance, it's going to take me a long time, especially since my attention will start to drift. This is why I nominated you as point person.
If I may offer an unsolicited suggestion: go for the temporary workaround. Use MC to browse and lineup your tracks, and use Windows Media Player to play them. You can drag and drop from MC into WMP. That way you woon't have the uncomfortable silences with 50 ballroom dancers glaring at you.

datdude · « **Reply #23 on:** October 13, 2005, 10:18:39 pm »

I reported this issue a long time ago. I was running a computer I built back in 2000 running windows xp pro sp2. I recently upgraded to a new laptop and this problem vanished for good. When it happened on my old box, it was very irregular but highly annoying. I think this tells me it was hardware issue but not entirley shure. Only way to know would be to take the old os and place the hardrive on a new motherboard.

Here was my post.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=26256.msg182303#msg182303

This thread just emphises the issue for those that continue to have it. I wondering what the common thread is for those who have the issue is outside of MC. Something clearly inside of MC is causing because other media players don't cuase this, yet not everyone who has MC, is having this issue.

nigels · « **Reply #24 on:** October 13, 2005, 11:39:18 pm »

hi
i also get these brief pauses
hardware/drivers same as mc10
happens mp3-mp3
1 in 7 ? yes about that rate
i will pay more attention from now on

hit_ny · « **Reply #25 on:** October 14, 2005, 12:58:06 am »

Quote from: datdude on October 13, 2005, 10:18:39 pm

I reported this issue a long time ago. I was running a computer I built back in 2000 running windows xp pro sp2. I recently upgraded to a new laptop and this problem vanished for good. When it happened on my old box, it was very irregular but highly annoying. I think this tells me it was hardware issue but not entirley shure. Only way to know would be to take the old os and place the hardrive on a new motherboard.

Here was my post.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=26256.msg182303#msg182303

This thread just emphises the issue for those that continue to have it. I wondering what the common thread is for those who have the issue is outside of MC. Something clearly inside of MC is causing because other media players don't cuase this, yet not everyone who has MC, is having this issue.

Common thread ? i use MC on a machine with similar specs as yours and have noticed the problem. Incidentally, you did not post back in that thread whether the problem got resolved after you got more memory.

But its like you said a stuttering sound rather than a pause, and at the beginning rather than the end, so i have to stop playback to get rid of it. In any case it happens during a track switchover. Sometimes i restart MC and things are fine again. Othertimes if the PC has been on all day, i restart windows.

I use a program called Cacheman to release unused memory, so i thought it might have something to do with this. With litle experimenting it turns out Cacheman actually improves MC response most of the time. This leads me to think there might be a memory shortage. I might upgrade to 512MB RAM from 256.

I notice defragging helps a lot but it can still happen, tho less when the drive is defragged.

And its rare, did not post about it cos i thought the machine might be underpowered. But other things play fine, CPU utiltization is low so am not entirely convinced its lack of memory ie If ppl with more powerful machines are experiencing a similar problem.

Only DSP setting is replay gain.

If Tine posts her system info (Help->System Info).

JimH · « **Reply #26 on:** October 14, 2005, 07:01:41 am »

Try disabling or uninstalling all third party plug-ins or visualizations you use. Just as a test.

twherreman · « **Reply #27 on:** October 14, 2005, 10:53:10 am »

Hi

I did not specifically install any third party plugins or visualisations for use with MC. I just downloaded it as is with whatever things you normally include, the default package if you will. If I am not understanding you correctly, please explain, should I and how do I uninstall and what exactly?

My system specs.
HP pavilion 7000 laptop, 3Gighz Pentium IV processor, 512 RAM, W XP home, 60gig HD, perpetually almost full with music and scientific data.
Spy sweeper (from mid-May), symantec antivirus client (from day 1), wireless card.
USB External Audigy Soundblaster NX2 (from mid-August), MC11.314 since mid-July.
Problem started occurring after MC11 but not sure whether before or after the sound card. Possibly after.
I defragged a few weeks ago and it has no effect.

I also get a stutter sometimes, at the same spot a few seconds before the end, but I found that to be related to the number of programs running at the same time. If I close most of them, maybe restart if the machine has been on all day, that solves the stutter problem. Stutter is a split second fraction of the music repeating a few times and then moving on. If I rip a CD and ply a playlist at the same time, I get some stuttering and stalling but this is not a real problem as I know how to avoid it.

Thank you
Tine
Playing 3 gigs for a cumulative 250 dancers this weekend.

twherreman · « **Reply #28 on:** October 14, 2005, 10:55:03 am »

Oh and by the way I have been keeping the Task manager open and I see no peaks in memory usage, also not in the numbers in the task list, when the stalling problem occurs.
Thanks
Tine

datdude · « **Reply #29 on:** October 14, 2005, 11:39:12 am »

Quote from: hit_ny on October 14, 2005, 12:58:06 am

Common thread ? i use MC on a machine with similar specs as yours and have noticed the problem. Incidentally, you did not post back in that thread whether the problem got resolved after you got more memory.

But its like you said a stuttering sound rather than a pause, and at the beginning rather than the end, so i have to stop playback to get rid of it. In any case it happens during a track switchover. Sometimes i restart MC and things are fine again. Othertimes if the PC has been on all day, i restart windows.

I use a program called Cacheman to release unused memory, so i thought it might have something to do with this. With litle experimenting it turns out Cacheman actually improves MC response most of the time. This leads me to think there might be a memory shortage. I might upgrade to 512MB RAM from 256.

I notice defragging helps a lot but it can still happen, tho less when the drive is defragged.

And its rare, did not post about it cos i thought the machine might be underpowered. But other things play fine, CPU utiltization is low so am not entirely convinced its lack of memory ie If ppl with more powerful machines are experiencing a similar problem.

Only DSP setting is replay gain.

If Tine posts her system info (Help->System Info).

I did not end up doing that. But I could still so I'll see.

Matt · « **Reply #30 on:** October 15, 2005, 09:26:38 am »

MC internally switches to the next track a little before the last one finishes. However, this shouldn't cause any type of stutter.

If you haven't, try some different buffer amounts from Options > Playback. Also, different playback types (DirectSound vs WaveOut) may make a difference.

Advanced power saving stuff that throttles down the CPU or hard disk after a little idle could make a difference.

Sorry we don't have an exact answer. This isn't something we hear often.

twherreman · « **Reply #31 on:** November 02, 2005, 10:10:09 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 15, 2005, 09:26:38 am

If you haven't, try some different buffer amounts from Options > Playback. Also, different playback types (DirectSound vs WaveOut) may make a difference.

Folks,
I changed Direct Sound to Wave Out for both my sound cards 2 weeks ago and the problem has not occurred since then. This is very encouraging and I think the problem is solved! Well it looks that way.
Thank you for your attention and your help!

Best regards
Tine
She-DJ

jgreen · « **Reply #32 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:11:24 pm »

Twherreperson, that is great news. Just like you, I run direct sound and an audigy card. Sounds like it really is card-related just like JimH suggested and I vehemently denied. But before I dine on too much crow, the skipping doesn't occur with any other media software, AFAICT.

JimH · « **Reply #33 on:** November 02, 2005, 03:15:46 pm »

Quote from: jgreen on November 02, 2005, 03:11:24 pm

... the skipping doesn't occur with any other media software, AFAICT.

As I said to someone else today, that only proves that the bug doesn't occur with other software. No two pieces of software create the same conditions for drivers.

I do believe that there is an MC problem as well. We just can't isolate it.

JaysonG · « **Reply #34 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:08:33 am »

Was there another thread that resolved this issue as I'm getting this quite alot now with MC11.1

JimH · « **Reply #35 on:** March 24, 2006, 06:33:52 am »

What sound card do you use?

JaysonG · « **Reply #36 on:** March 25, 2006, 04:05:09 am »

the built in soundcard on my nVidia mobo I think its called the nForce 2.

jgreen · « **Reply #37 on:** March 25, 2006, 08:15:41 am »

I saw this issue through much of the later 11.0.xxx builds, but I have NEVER seen it with 11.1.xxxx, so go figure. Kept the same soundcard, drivers, changed the AV and firewall. IMO, something is hindering the track change, possibly AV.

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Author Topic: Pausing at end of track (Read 5410 times)